Straight, White Males - No Longer the World Rulers?

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Vegosiux:

I think Anglo-Saxon is the normative for whenever "white" comes up in this context, actually. When people say "white", they mean "American white with Anglo-Saxon origins", not "not having a lot of melanin in their skin". So no, I don't think most people would consider Russians "white", or at least not the same kind of "white".

"White" is traditionally considered western Europe as far as I can tell. Generally speaking anything East of Poland or south of Austria is considered "Slavic" and Spanish and Italian people get a pass on being white, despite often being closer to North African complexions. Anglo-Saxon and Anglo-American have just become the go to examples of whiteness, followed closely by Germanic people.

In the context of normativity theory, were your "whiteness" comes from is generally seen as pretty important, due to our own preconceptions about other nationalities. Being "Swedish white" is not the same as being "Irish white" and these concepts are pretty fluid. Keep in mind that both Irish and Italian immigrants were not really considered "proper white" in the 20's through 50's in the USA but would definitely qualify today.

Gethsemani:

"White" is traditionally considered western Europe as far as I can tell. Generally speaking anything East of Poland or south of Austria is considered "Slavic" and Spanish and Italian people get a pass on being white, despite often being closer to North African complexions. Anglo-Saxon and Anglo-American have just become the go to examples of whiteness, followed closely by Germanic people.

Yeah, I suppose. <But I suspect you might want to include Poland (and Czech Republic and Slovakia) in the "Slavic" bits too...and Hungary gets included often too. But then again, there's a lot of Germanic heritage in them, plus in Slovenia as well (and less so in the rest of the Balkans), so...it's all rather blurry. And there's historians who include Venetian ancestry and...anyway, confusing.

In the context of normativity theory, were your "whiteness" comes from is generally seen as pretty important, due to our own preconceptions about other nationalities. Being "Swedish white" is not the same as being "Irish white" and these concepts are pretty fluid. Keep in mind that both Irish and Italian immigrants were not really considered "proper white" in the 20's through 50's in the USA but would definitely qualify today.

That's kind of what I was trying to get at. Thanks for putting it clearly.

Vegosiux:

2012 Wont Happen:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

No, because that title is to be said together, not separately. There is only one straight white male in the top 5, that is the OPs point.

Seeing as most people would consider Russians white, and pope Francis, while from Argentina, is of Italian descent, I'd say there are two straight white males on the list.

I think Anglo-Saxon is the normative for whenever "white" comes up in this context, actually. When people say "white", they mean "American white with Anglo-Saxon origins", not "not having a lot of melanin in their skin". So no, I don't think most people would consider Russians "white", or at least not the same kind of "white".

I don't think when most people say "white" they mean only those of Anglo-Saxon descent. I've never heard the French, for example, described as not white. Same with Italians, non-Arab descended Spaniards, Germans, Polish, Finnish, ect. Races are are a pretty fast and loose descriptor, considering that the notion is socially constructed rather than biologically, but excluding Russians, who appear "white" and are culturally European, from the category is even more arbitrary than the existence of the category to begin with.

The Gnome King:

Perhaps straight white men don't have the stranglehold on power that we once thought they did

Voltaire had a quick and useful heuristic for identifying power, in his own words:

Voltaire:
"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize."

Anyone with a familiarity with current pop culture should recognize that white males are the most acceptable targets. As such, wherever power lies it isn't with white males. If my TV is any guide, white males are complete morons, totally inept at managing their own lives and social interactions. A few examples:

Dude! She's been over this already! Why can't you listen!?!

What!? Suzanne researched this!

Uh, I'll just shut up now honey if that's OK with you.

I'm barely sentient!

It's good thing there is a woman to keep tabs on these idiots, they might hurt themselves! Seriously, they're like volunteer social workers looking after the mentally handicapped.

And this little gem from Fedex for the which there is no youtube yet

SOCIALCONSTRUCT:

The Gnome King:

Perhaps straight white men don't have the stranglehold on power that we once thought they did

Voltaire had a quick and useful heuristic for identifying power, in his own words:

Voltaire:
"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize."

Anyone with a familiarity current pop culture should recognize that white males are the most acceptable targets. As such, wherever power lies it isn't with white males. If my TV is any guide, white males are complete morons, totally inept at managing their own lives and social interactions. A few examples:

Because obviously being an acceptable target in pop culture tells us so much more about who really has power than actually, you know, looking at the people in power. Never mind that Voltaire's quote, while nice, was written in the mid-18th century, also known as a period when France was an absolute monarchy, and can't really be applied to a modern, democratic society with any usefulness, since free criticism of rulers is one of the basic tenets of democracy.

Next time you want to go into as sociological discussion, how about referencing something more than what's on TV?

SOCIALCONSTRUCT:

The Gnome King:

Perhaps straight white men don't have the stranglehold on power that we once thought they did

Voltaire had a quick and useful heuristic for identifying power, in his own words:

Voltaire:
"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize."

Anyone with a familiarity current pop culture should recognize that white males are the most acceptable targets. As such, wherever power lies it isn't with white males.

Uhrm, only if you take that one maxim, and ignore all other equally-valid measures and principles.

Besides, even if we did take that maxim as our measure, I'd argue that the press is just as good an area (or better) to judge than television. And in the papers here, minorities get criticised (and lied about) repeatedly, while "hard-working people" and "traditional families" can do no wrong.

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