Making the budget great again.

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Have a short vid about tumpers budget plan.

Considering he was all about tax cuts, it doesn't seem like hes really stopping any spending, hes just moving most of it to the military. What does r&p thing?

His idea of a good budget is pretty much the worst possible thing that could happen to this country.

Spending money isn't a bad idea in an age of cheap debt. Australian government refused large scale deficit spending while it has a AAA S&P rating. So yeah, it has a very low public debt. While it may possibly reach surplus again by 2019, assuming it continues this run of extraordinarily good luck concerning going the longest time without a recession in the history of all finance.

But people have to remember ... surplus isn't necessarily good. Most times it means excessive taxation of most other classes that need to consume the same necessary goods and services of societies as representative by a greater slice of their pay. Regressive taxation like GST, for instance ... If your government is spending time cheering how they created surplus ... it means that government has effectively hoarded your money and not spent it.

Which is dumb. Basic laws of business ... use excess liquidity. There are a few situations where this isn't always the case, and where it makes good financial sense to revenue raise by becoming a publicly traded company, and use the money from shares sales to pay down loans made to you by banks so that you can borrow more money to put into enterprise expansion at a cheaper rate of interest ... but it always comes down to the basic message in a roundabout way. Use your liquidity....

And unless that suplus was born from things like death taxes and from better representation of lost wages of the very wealthy ... it just means the middle class and lower have been gouged for more money, and governments have refused to spend it on services they need to reduce the stress of living costs...

But given the real financial worries is private debt, wage growth stagnation and increasing stress on consumption ... not spending money into infrastructure plans that create long term work nationwide is more likely to cripple continued market growth than tacking on a few percentage points on national debt levels.

Sop parts of Trump's budget plan just make sense. Borrow and spend into infrastructure. To raise labour competition while relative unemployment is low, but underemployment is high. To basically transform underpaid, underemployed people into fulltime employed people. It makes good fiscal sense as a natural way to reverse the trend of jobseekers having to beg for work, and flipping that around whereby you have business begging to find new, full time labour. More jobs for less people seeking them, means better jobs with better pay for those people.

But tax cuts to the rich has never, and will never, coincide with greater relative jobs growth than greater taxation of the rich and corporations, and effective public infrastructure spending.

Also, the rest of his budget plan is just God-awful....

So, over a decade a go, roundabouts when Bush Jr. was pushing "compassionate conservatism", I used to buy into the Republican claims of wanting to reduce government spending, trimming waste, and the ideas of small government.

I still support smaller efficient government where possible, and even reducing taxes to an extent, leaving more to the states to tailor programs and supports to their liking, although I am now more in support of simplifying the tax code over Bush era blanket tax cuts. However, I have long stopped buying into the idea that Republicans will ever make it past the "cutting taxes" parts of their economic claims, they seem to get stuck at cutting programs that look stereotypically liberal to conservative constituents, but turn into everything they slam Democrats for when it comes to subsidies for popular conservative industries and of course the military. The final straw being Bush Jr's prosecution of two separate wars while still maintaining tax cuts and military expansion, essentially being the first major military operation conducted pretty much wholly on deficit spending. Perhaps I should have realized that Reagan's own rampant spending in the 80's was not a singular event explained by the cold war, but apparently the new Republican mantra of talking about smaller government when they actually just mean: bloated military offset by cuts to basically everything that's not a farm, oil, or banking subsidy without actually addressing or making those programs more efficient or functional, especially if its a program that Democrat's like, even if the program works.

So basically, yep, that's a Republican budget alright, it's almost a parody of a Republican budget, tax cuts focused almost entirely on corporations and the rich, massive cuts to scientific research, even Bush Jr. at least emphasized middle class tax cuts to go along with his corporate welfare, but any benefit or surplus that might have been applied to our deficit/debt, or provided incentive to try and do more with less is rendered completely void by sinking any savings into the military/DHS. The blatant hypocrisy of so much of the party only crying about deficit spending and the debt when Democrats are in power is the cherry on top of this shit sundae.

On the sort of bright side, I seriously doubt that budget is going to get through Congress unchanged.

This is pretty much what we all expected though, isn't it?

considering hes planing to basically stop climate change research which basically screws every other counties future i say fuck him

Every new cut I look into reveals another horror story. Appalachian towns being left to the wolves. Meals on Wheels riding off into the sunset. All of the lead in all of the drinking water.

That there are people defending this shit is tragic when you consider how many of them are going to suffer if this gets through. I'd love to say that it won't, but we all thought this clown was never gonna make it to the Oval Office either.

How I feel as a socialist:

Oh thank Jebas, someone made a thread about this, I wanted to but there was just TOO MUCH TO GO OVER.

So! First, handy link to a list of many of the programs that are on the chopping block, as in the ones that would lose all funding as opposed to just getting by with less; http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/16/trumps-federal-budget-would-eliminate-dozens-of-agencies-and-programs.html Dozens there, categorized under their departments, so by all means, peruse. I'd recommend looking at the programs under the Department of Energy that would get shut down, might as well be a neon sign screaming Gee, It's Almost Like Big Oil Owns Our Asses!

And what makes cuts to the relatively small programs like public broadcasting and the like so frustrating is that we have an administration who thinks that the (relative) peanuts required to keep such programs running are too costly or wasteful, and yet features a President that happily burns through millions to fly back and forth to his resort- sorry, sorry, to the Southern White House- because he lacks any real strength of character or work ethic. Do you wanna save a few hundred million dollars, Trump? Then maybe treat resort trips like a yearly vacation and not a weekend ritual.

Ugh. We'll see how much of this makes it through Congress, in any case, much like Paul Ryan's ridiculous health plan.

As for level of surprise, my stance is generally; I'm not surprised that he DOES it, but I remain surprised at just how blatant he is about it. So I'm not surprised when he lies, because he's a liar, but I'm always more surprised at the lies that are so obvious, so easy to disprove, so utterly nutty, that you can't believe it would pop out of his mouth. Similarly, I'm not surprised that he supports a health plan, tax reform and a budget that consistently shifts support from environmental concerns- not even just climate change, mind you, environment in GENERAL,- and the poor in favor of oil companies and the wealthy. But I am surprised at how openly it's being done, how little effort is made to throw in some kind of compromise that at least makes it look like his interests aren't quite so one-sided.

But hey, being blatant and obvious about it got him into the Presidency, so I guess he should just keep doing what works for him. =P

I think my "favorite" bit is wanting to privatize the FAA's air traffic controllers.

Because when I think of a huge, massively complex system that relies on radar and is currently upgrading to satellite, guiding 2.2 million people a day across the country safely with the safest system on the planet, I think "how can we change this to a system with less oversight and more of a focus on the bottom line?"

EDIT: Fuck it, I just read through that link posted above mine. Not really feeling like joking anymore. That shit's going to literally and directly kill people.

All so he can spend more money on the military-industrial complex, emphasizing the "industrial" part, because the Department of Defense will tell you it doesn't really need more Abrams tanks, bless your heart. I mean, the average grunt isn't going to see a dime of that money, either literally through a pay increase or figuratively through practical gear upgrades.

Any goodwill I might have had died a long time ago when it comes to this type of human. No excuse for it. No excuse for excusing it either. Would love to see how the spin weavers weave this into a positive, or something we should all just ignore.

im not surprised, like at all. is it viable to put a giant dome on top of the us? at least all states except for Alaska and Hawaii?

So the upshot here is with all these cuts to those pinko commie programs that no red blooded meat eating 'murican would like, he's still is not balancing the fucking thing. Yeah that sounds about fucking right. I think he really will crash the entire world fucking economy by refusing to pay the US debt. The US bled out too much money in the early aughts to keep on this path. He said he would do it. Now it it Might have been election season bluster, but if it wasn't, he already has a track record of not thinking things through. The travel ban was relatively minor small beans compared to this. And the US cannot sustain itself on continued deficit financing. At this rate all the US's political enemies have to do is wait. When the house of cards crumbles they can move after that.

Trump has boldly proposed bog standard Republican fare. This is in the direction of what Republicans have always wanted in a budget. And Democrats should say so. This is not unprecedented or novel. It is bad, though.

altnameJag:

EDIT: Fuck it, I just read through that link posted above mine. Not really feeling like joking anymore. That shit's going to literally and directly kill people.

I'd imagine he'd make his airliner friends happy by privatizing the NTSB. It's better to joke about this stuff now because you won't get a chance when he's effectively telling the Department of Defence to not even spend that money on civilian issues like improved medical research into things like improving early identification of PTSD and the like with the civilian hiring freeze.

WHOS FUCKING SURPRISED?!?!?!Cause honestly its like watching a monkey in a cage and giving it something complicated like lego blocks only for the monkey to shit on lego block ans throw it at passerby.

Seanchaidh:
Trump has boldly proposed bog standard Republican fare. This is in the direction of what Republicans have always wanted in a budget. And Democrats should say so. This is not unprecedented or novel. It is bad, though.

Yeah, second that. It's louder and more crass, but much the same otherwise.

Having said that, a mere 8 odd years ago when GWB was in power, the Republicans weren't this bad.

The one silver lining is that as horrible, as horrendous, and terrible as this Budget Proposal is, that's all it is. Congress, specifically the House, makes the Budget, and even with this Crazy Congress, they won't do half of the things Trump wants to do. Things like cuts to Foreign Aid and destroying benign Social Aid programs like Meals on Wheels and the Endowment of the Arts won't happen. We'll still have terrible things like money for a Wall and gutting the EPA, but it won't be a complete and total nightmare for America.

If it does pass in this state? Expect the Republican Party to completely die in almost all the States. Also expect a lot of people to move to Canada, Europe or Mexico.

I mean this isn't really surprising, is it?

I've always been annoyed by the republicans opposition to welfare when they're in full support of military spending just so that they can build a factory and give their constituents jobs. Mainly cause they're manufacturing crap that the army doesn't even want because they already have more than enough.

Like stop with the abrams tanks already!

Saelune:
How I feel as a socialist:

This has nothing to do with this thread, but I just want to point out that this commercial always makes me laugh because the "Native American" that's crying in it is an Italian actor who fraudulently claimed to be a Native American for the purposes of getting acting jobs. Liberals post this commercial and the guy staring in it is the anti-thesis of a lot of liberal ideals. He's a white guy appropriating the culture of Native Americans while also stealing jobs from minorities.

Again, this has nothing to do with this thread, and it doesn't change the message of the ad, it's just something funny to think about.

I'm not really at all surprised.

Well, I am surprised in one respect. One of the targets of the budget cuts is the Appalachian economic assistance programs that exist to support economic development and infrastructure in regions left critically impoverished by the collapse of the coal mining industry. Trump's promise to restore the 30,000 or so lost jobs in the U.S. coal mining industry was a key part of his election platform; in fact, it was one of the few clearly-enunciated policies he had. And it helped win him the election, because these people were mostly Democrats who felt that Obama and Clinton had given up on them.

So for him to do such a staggeringly callous about-face and cut millions of dollars from the assistance programs that basically keep these people above the poverty line is..well, I wouldn't say "shocking," but I'm mildly surprised, once again, by Trump's audacious duplicity. It's such a dick move, I don't think he's even aware that he's done it. He sincerely seems to think that he's working for the coal miners, much like how he doesn't seem to know what his own party's healthcare bill actually does.

Part of the problem with US coal is that its major competitor is actually natural gas. And there's been a glut of natural gas on the market due to increased fracking. Coal just can't compete with that. And it turns out that (surprise!) the natural gas lobby has a lot of sway within the Republican party, and they are thoroughly uninterested in subsidising coal.

So all those coal miners who handed Trump the election can go fuck themselves, apparently, because (shock! horror!) when a politician makes a campaign promise that's just too good to be true, it usually isn't.

Come on guys, if you're going to do crazy stuff, make it memorable. Go to the Casino and put it all on red.

altnameJag:
Because when I think of a huge, massively complex system that relies on radar and is currently upgrading to satellite, guiding 2.2 million people a day across the country safely with the safest system on the planet, I think "how can we change this to a system with less oversight and more of a focus on the bottom line?"

And this is different to healthcare how?

Catnip1024:
Come on guys, if you're going to do crazy stuff, make it memorable. Go to the Casino and put it all on red.

altnameJag:
Because when I think of a huge, massively complex system that relies on radar and is currently upgrading to satellite, guiding 2.2 million people a day across the country safely with the safest system on the planet, I think "how can we change this to a system with less oversight and more of a focus on the bottom line?"

And this is different to healthcare how?

Doctors fucking up or insurance claims getting denied doesn't usually make the news. Large airplane crashes, on the other hand...

bastardofmelbourne:
I'm not really at all surprised.

Well, I am surprised in one respect. One of the targets of the budget cuts is the Appalachian economic assistance programs that exist to support economic development and infrastructure in regions left critically impoverished by the collapse of the coal mining industry. Trump's promise to restore the 30,000 or so lost jobs in the U.S. coal mining industry was a key part of his election platform; in fact, it was one of the few clearly-enunciated policies he had. And it helped win him the election, because these people were mostly Democrats who felt that Obama and Clinton had given up on them.

So for him to do such a staggeringly callous about-face and cut millions of dollars from the assistance programs that basically keep these people above the poverty line is..well, I wouldn't say "shocking," but I'm mildly surprised, once again, by Trump's audacious duplicity. It's such a dick move, I don't think he's even aware that he's done it. He sincerely seems to think that he's working for the coal miners, much like how he doesn't seem to know what his own party's healthcare bill actually does.

Part of the problem with US coal is that its major competitor is actually natural gas. And there's been a glut of natural gas on the market due to increased fracking. Coal just can't compete with that. And it turns out that (surprise!) the natural gas lobby has a lot of sway within the Republican party, and they are thoroughly uninterested in subsidising coal.

So all those coal miners who handed Trump the election can go fuck themselves, apparently, because (shock! horror!) when a politician makes a campaign promise that's just too good to be true, it usually isn't.

I may be wrong, but I thought the sentiment wasn't to literally bring back extensive coal mining, but to create more working class level jobs for those left unemployed by collapsed industries such as coal mining. I mean, I don't think most of those people would really care whether they were employed to pull coal or natural gas out out of the ground, what they care about is having a means to provide for themselves. But again, I could very well be wrong, and my post has very little to do with the topic of the budget so I hope I am not derailing the discussion

Silent Protagonist:
I may be wrong, but I thought the sentiment wasn't to literally bring back extensive coal mining, but to create more working class level jobs for those left unemployed by collapsed industries such as coal mining.

That's exactly the kind of shit that the organisations that Trump wants to defund actually do. So if that was Trump's plan, he's working directly against it.

Meanwhile, Hillary promised thirty billion to the same organisations Trump's budget is cutting, but none of that matters because she once said she'd put coal miners out of business. For speaking plainly and honestly - a rare show of form on her part - Hillary Clinton got demonised as some kind of environmentalist nutjob out to kill the US energy industry.

Meanwhile, Trump literally promised to bring back coal jobs that do not and cannot exist anymore. And he's the one people believe. You know, it leaves a bad goddamn taste in my mouth.

Seanchaidh:
Doctors fucking up or insurance claims getting denied doesn't usually make the news. Large airplane crashes, on the other hand...

But doctors kill far more people. Statistically, going into a hospital is one of the worst things you can do.

The statistics may be a bit skewed by the state of the people going into hospitals, though, to be fair.

EDIT: Also, if anybody has a particularly grim sense of humour, the NHS "Never Events" list makes for interesting reading as to the sort of thing that can go wrong in hospitals.
https://improvement.nhs.uk/uploads/documents/NE_data_report_1_April_2015_-_31_March_2016_FINAL_v2.pdf

Now the White house is so desperate for people to praise them that are not even checking the articles they are citing now for obvious satire. https://www.rawstory.com/2017/03/white-house-promotes-satirical-article-mocking-trumps-budget-proposal/

Also here from the author of the piece. https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2017/03/17/how-the-white-house-made-me-real-news/?utm_term=.16e966c32f0e There is a screen cap in this one here of the press release.

I think we have waited long enough. I know the real administration is hiding somewhere waiting for us to lose our shit before jumping out and saying "got ya! OK we're going to get to work for realsies now!"

Uh,what was that? This IS the real administration?

image

Catnip1024:
Come on guys, if you're going to do crazy stuff, make it memorable. Go to the Casino and put it all on red.

altnameJag:
Because when I think of a huge, massively complex system that relies on radar and is currently upgrading to satellite, guiding 2.2 million people a day across the country safely with the safest system on the planet, I think "how can we change this to a system with less oversight and more of a focus on the bottom line?"

And this is different to healthcare how?

You are correct. I also believe privatized healthcare and the health insurance racket is a terrible idea that does nothing but get more people killed while putting too much emphasis on the bottom line.

The American healthcare system is only the nest in the world if you can afford it, and if you have any serious or long term illnesses...99% of the population can't. Pre-ACA, most people's healthcare plan was "wait until the problem is serious enough to go to the emergency room because they can't turn you away if you don't have money." Doesn't really work if you have, say, cancer.

bastardofmelbourne:

Silent Protagonist:
I may be wrong, but I thought the sentiment wasn't to literally bring back extensive coal mining, but to create more working class level jobs for those left unemployed by collapsed industries such as coal mining.

That's exactly the kind of shit that the organisations that Trump wants to defund actually do. So if that was Trump's plan, he's working directly against it.

Meanwhile, Hillary promised thirty billion to the same organisations Trump's budget is cutting, but none of that matters because she once said she'd put coal miners out of business. For speaking plainly and honestly - a rare show of form on her part - Hillary Clinton got demonised as some kind of environmentalist nutjob out to kill the US energy industry.

Meanwhile, Trump literally promised to bring back coal jobs that do not and cannot exist anymore. And he's the one people believe. You know, it leaves a bad goddamn taste in my mouth.

The funny thing (and by that I mean infuriating thing) being that the single biggest measure Trump has arguably undertaken to 'protect' the coal industry has consisted of killing a regulation that was intended to protect the environment. In other words, the clean water rule finished last year that would have prevented these companies from dumping potentially toxic heavy metals and other waste by-products into whatever stream happened to be handy, which can contaminate water supplies for nearby rural communities, etc, etc. Sure, the rule wasn't perfect, there was criticism from environmentalists that it didn't do enough; but it still did more than is gonna get done now. =P

But really, even the cut to the Appalachian economic assistance program doesn't surprise me that much. Because ultimately, Trump isn't out to help the coal miners, he's out to help the coal mining industry, and this all falls perfectly in line with that. Trump's promises have always been about getting coal miners back in the mines, and that had less to do with helping get a struggling subset of the American population back on its feet, and more about reversing the decline an aging and perhaps largely obsolete industry is undergoing. (Although, as you've mentioned, even THAT is kneecapped by the fact that coal's biggest rival is natural gas, not the environment, and that coal just isn't in sodding demand.) Trump's aim has been to revitalize the business, not the people, and any talks about coal miners themselves would have been an 'I See You' platitude designed to get them on board.

Clinton's proposed solution was to invest in the coal mining communities to wean them off a shrinking industry. Trump's is to invest in the coal mining industry and try to get them as big and in-demand as ever, something that looks to be literally impossible, because coal just isn't that desirable.

So here's what I think will happen; Trump will stomp on some more clean energy initiatives, maybe tear down a wind farm or two, and maybe generate some more coal jobs. Personally I think he might just slow coal's decline, not halt or reverse it, but we'll see. Either way, he'll take to the airwaves, congratulating himself on how he helped 'revitalize the coal industry.' Meanwhile the communities that relied on the industry will be worse off than ever, especially if the Republican health bill passes.

I think he did everything he promised, he said he'd move money around from agencies he considered no longer useful and that he'd build up the military. People liked it so they voted for it and that's how we got here.

Xan Krieger:
I think he did everything he promised, he said he'd move money around from agencies he considered no longer useful and that he'd build up the military. People liked it so they voted for it and that's how we got here.

Except those people believed the money being removed from welfare services would only affect "teh liberuls" and inner-city people (aka "teh blacks"). It won't take long before many ignorant people who voted for Trump with such assumptions (example: voters who love KentuckyCare in Kentucky but hate Obamacare, which are one and the same) realize they've actually fucked themselves. I'm willing to bet most of them won't bother with the self-reflection to get to that point though. Easier to blame it on "the enemy."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/meals-on-wheels-trump-budget-cut-impact-on-voters/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab6a&linkId=35604188

Mr.Mattress:
The one silver lining is that as horrible, as horrendous, and terrible as this Budget Proposal is, that's all it is. Congress, specifically the House, makes the Budget, and even with this Crazy Congress, they won't do half of the things Trump wants to do. Things like cuts to Foreign Aid and destroying benign Social Aid programs like Meals on Wheels and the Endowment of the Arts won't happen. We'll still have terrible things like money for a Wall and gutting the EPA, but it won't be a complete and total nightmare for America.

If it does pass in this state? Expect the Republican Party to completely die in almost all the States. Also expect a lot of people to move to Canada, Europe or Mexico.

...Just going to point something out, you are putting your faith in Congress, namely a GOP Congress to save the day from this shit budget.
Even before Trump, they were pathological in how little fucks they gave and shut down the entire government twice because they could.
I doubt they will have changed much now that their guy is in the oval office and all Trump has to do is call them out on twitter to scare them back into line.

No offence to our American friends, but you're kinda fucked...

*Cough*

Something something about Democrats being all that bad whatnow? Uhhh...NOPE.

Every day, in every way, my way of thinking looks better and better. Trump voters...you did it wrong.

When a big dumbass wants the throne, vote the total opposite and tell your friends to do same.

Catnip1024:

Seanchaidh:
Doctors fucking up or insurance claims getting denied doesn't usually make the news. Large airplane crashes, on the other hand...

But doctors kill far more people. Statistically, going into a hospital is one of the worst things you can do.

The statistics may be a bit skewed by the state of the people going into hospitals, though, to be fair.

EDIT: Also, if anybody has a particularly grim sense of humour, the NHS "Never Events" list makes for interesting reading as to the sort of thing that can go wrong in hospitals.
https://improvement.nhs.uk/uploads/documents/NE_data_report_1_April_2015_-_31_March_2016_FINAL_v2.pdf

Just because bad doctors get more people killed then air traffic controllers doesn't mean we should try to improve the fatality rate of the latter.
Seriously, it's unnecessary and all it takes is one private company deciding against their workers having breaks or something and possibly hundreds of people are dead.
I know that business aren't going to go out of their way to do something like that, but there are enough horror stories of the crap Wal-mart gets away with in relation to overworking their employees.

Diablo1099:
Just because bad doctors get more people killed then air traffic controllers doesn't mean we should try to improve the fatality rate of the latter.
Seriously, it's unnecessary and all it takes is one private company deciding against their workers having breaks or something and possibly hundreds of people are dead.
I know that business aren't going to go out of their way to do something like that, but there are enough horror stories of the crap Wal-mart gets away with in relation to overworking their employees.

My point being, why is 300 people being killed once a year due to an ATC fuck-up worse than a person dying every day due to a doctor fuck-up?

I'm against privatising essential infrastructure, but it's a weird way to judge it based on the size of the potential accident, rather than the casualty rate per year.

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