Your thoughts on... centrism

 Pages PREV 1 2
 

I am against every view and opinion I find to be opposing mine. Wait... Actually I'm indifferent when... those views make no difference to me.

There are few things I like and a lot of things I don't dislike. I always end up centrist in any poll I take.

Silvanus:

inu-kun:

Silvanus:

Now that the Government have signalled that none of the left-wing priorities will be served by leaving, it seems to me that it's quite solidly a hard-right cause.

I don't think it works that way, politics usually obey the law of casuality....

I don't understand what you're referring to. The law of causality has been observed at every stage.

1. Some Right-wing interests and some Left-wing interests campaign together for the UK to leave the EU. Their priorities, and what they want to come out of this move, differ, but both believe their interests will be served by this move.

2. The campaign is successful.

3. The move can only fully serve either the right-wing interests or the left-wing interests, because in many respects, their priorities are mutually incompatible. The Right-wing interests win out, because in this instance the government is Right-wing, and because right-wing interests were more dominant within the Leave campaign to begin with.

A clear progression. Causality every step of the way.

But post voting Brexit is a fact. If left wing aligned goals won out it wouldn't have made the campaign in the past a leftist cause.

At best you can say that the current handling of the matter is a right winged cause but that wouldn't eliminate left winged handling of Brexit (without cancelling it).

inu-kun:

But post voting Brexit is a fact. If left wing aligned goals won out it wouldn't have made the campaign in the past a leftist cause.

No, that's right. The campaign to win the referendum was a mixture of right-wing and left-wing interests, and some non-aligned, though right-wing interests undoubtedly dominated.

This is after the referendum. Right-wing interests-- most importantly the hard-Brexit supporters in the Conservative Party-- are now making every effort to ensure it takes the hardest, most drastic form. There is no similar effort from the Left-wing campaigners, because they have already been told categorically (by the Leave campaign itself, and the Government) that they will not be getting what they campaigned for.

Delicious Anathema:

Seanchaidh:

Delicious Anathema:
Why do some people assume left is good and right is evil?

My political views are a mix, I lean centre-left economically and right-wing in social issues.

Well, let's look at what that would have looked like in a different context removed from our present situation; ~150 years ago in the northern United States, since the global conversation is unduly influenced by the United States and its history anyway.

"Centre-left economically"-- mild distaste toward slavery, support of light protective tariffs and a national bank with inflating currency, support of industrialists and hostility toward unions, support of public funding for schools, railroads. (Goods need to get to and from factories and industrial workers need to be able to read, don't you know?)
"Right-wing in social issues"-- women definitely can't vote, atheists shouldn't be allowed to testify in court, sodomy is a crime deserving somewhere from imprisonment to death, almost certainly a belief in some form of race pseudoscience (known at the time as 'race science'-- this view would only be probable rather than inevitable for someone left-wing in social issues at that time).

I can't imagine.

Also, I probably made some mistakes in my characterizations about "center left" economic views in the circa 1870-- mostly because it's arguable what that even means (I took it to mean the economic views of a moderate Republican)-- so definitely double check that if you're interested.

I fail to see how this is relevant when discussing modern left and right wing politics apart from a lasting impression that may or not reflect today in some people.

If I was around back then I probably would have been left wing, but it seems nowadays being conservative/centrist seems like good common sense, and I was left wing until a year ago.

And what does being 'conservative/centrist' look like today, in your experience?

Seanchaidh:

Delicious Anathema:

Seanchaidh:

Well, let's look at what that would have looked like in a different context removed from our present situation; ~150 years ago in the northern United States, since the global conversation is unduly influenced by the United States and its history anyway.

"Centre-left economically"-- mild distaste toward slavery, support of light protective tariffs and a national bank with inflating currency, support of industrialists and hostility toward unions, support of public funding for schools, railroads. (Goods need to get to and from factories and industrial workers need to be able to read, don't you know?)
"Right-wing in social issues"-- women definitely can't vote, atheists shouldn't be allowed to testify in court, sodomy is a crime deserving somewhere from imprisonment to death, almost certainly a belief in some form of race pseudoscience (known at the time as 'race science'-- this view would only be probable rather than inevitable for someone left-wing in social issues at that time).

I can't imagine.

Also, I probably made some mistakes in my characterizations about "center left" economic views in the circa 1870-- mostly because it's arguable what that even means (I took it to mean the economic views of a moderate Republican)-- so definitely double check that if you're interested.

I fail to see how this is relevant when discussing modern left and right wing politics apart from a lasting impression that may or not reflect today in some people.

If I was around back then I probably would have been left wing, but it seems nowadays being conservative/centrist seems like good common sense, and I was left wing until a year ago.

And what does being 'conservative/centrist' look like today, in your experience?

I don't know about other conservatives, but I'm for manufacturing jobs within the country, resisting mass immigration, defending the value of having mother and father in a child's life (better than gay couples or single parents- especially by choice, it's a more controversial opinion and I know it), pro-life (with exceptions), preserving a country's culture and encourage assimilation of immigrants, against globalization, resisting PC culture and stuff like gender pronoun madness, third wave feminism and victimhood culture, just to name a few.

The centrist part in me leans more on the economical side, as while I defend private property, I'm for applying rules within the private sector that prevent stuff like anti-trust violations, unpaid work, work without a permanent contract, as well as the strong presence of state-provided alternatives to things like transport and healthcare.

In France your consider a centrist if your a social democrat where as in the US you could scheme behind people's backs and try to privatized social security(US government version of pensions) and be consider a firm leftist. Cough Clinton.

Anyway I am glad not Le Pen was elected but if he doesn't raise the average wages of both the middle class, and the lower class, or tries to implement any unpopular fiscal policies that seem bad in the short-term the France people will kick him out of office just like Hollande.

As for screwing over people in the long-term he could do that, and get away like any head of state could in the short term. Perhaps his security policy will lead to a semi-police state in the future, we don't know until we realized the error such an action.

Gergar12:
In France your consider a centrist if your a social democrat where as in the US you could scheme behind people's backs and try to privatized social security(US government version of pensions) and be consider a firm leftist. Cough Clinton.

Pff. You could do that and be considered a Marxist Muslim Socialist! (Shout out to my main man Barack!)

Delicious Anathema:

Seanchaidh:

Delicious Anathema:

I fail to see how this is relevant when discussing modern left and right wing politics apart from a lasting impression that may or not reflect today in some people.

If I was around back then I probably would have been left wing, but it seems nowadays being conservative/centrist seems like good common sense, and I was left wing until a year ago.

And what does being 'conservative/centrist' look like today, in your experience?

I don't know about other conservatives, but I'm for manufacturing jobs within the country, resisting mass immigration, defending the value of having mother and father in a child's life (better than gay couples or single parents- especially by choice, it's a more controversial opinion and I know it), pro-life (with exceptions), preserving a country's culture and encourage assimilation of immigrants, against globalization, resisting PC culture and stuff like gender pronoun madness, third wave feminism and victimhood culture, just to name a few.

The centrist part in me leans more on the economical side, as while I defend private property, I'm for applying rules within the private sector that prevent stuff like anti-trust violations, unpaid work, work without a permanent contract, as well as the strong presence of state-provided alternatives to things like transport and healthcare.

Well, OK. I think I can answer why people think "right=evil" based on what you're saying right there. It's not hard to think of your views about immigration, family, and abortion as reasoned from a place not of solidarity with your nation and compassion for possibly disadvantaged children but of scorn for immigrants, gay people, and women-- I have no particular reason to think that scorn is your motivation, but it's not difficult at all to view those ideas in that way.

And as for your centrist views on the economy: the right (if right= laissez faire market fundamentalism) loves monopolies (or at least loves getting rid of the rules that prevent them), loves unpaid work, and generally enjoys destroying things like transport and healthcare if they can get away with it (their politicians like that destruction more than their voters, I think.)

At least that should be pretty close to how the people who believe right=evil see the right.

I'm not a great fan of moving too far either left or right. Also i feel like staying deadlocked into concepts like "left wing and right wing" is self limiting.

There are no perfect solutions. You cannot have true freedom in a purely socialist state and you cannot have economic parity in a capitalistic state. I find both extremes repulsive for different reasons so i would prefer to find some kind of balance between the two. The attempts art balance have not worked totally spectacularly but they seem to offer a better minimum quality of life than other systems at a minimal loss of freedom. Regulations after all when they are put out for public safety are not that terrible to deal with.

There are great examples of pure libertarianism and pure communism working at a small community based level. But I think both systems tend to fall to pieces the further removed you are from the people who benefit from your contribution. So I prefer to see a balance between legally protected freedoms and legally protected public safety regulation and social nets for a good balanced society. Perfect? No. Better than other systems I have yet seen? Yes.

 Pages PREV 1 2

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here