BREAKING: James Comey, FBI head, has been fired

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Delicious Anathema:
So this is how you drain a swamp.

Your comment is funnier because he unironicly used the hashtag #draintheswamp the day he did it on Twitter.

Hades:
Wow...Trump firing James Comey after he sabotaged Clinton mere days before the election to boost Trump sounds incredibly ungrateful of him. I mean, its good to know the man who may have forced the world to endure a Trump presidency is out of a job but with Trump being the one to fire him it sounds kind of tacky.

Hey I'm upset about his emails bullshit too. But let's not forget that Comey was also investigating Trump and this happened the day after Sally Yates publicly testified along with Clapper AND on the same day CNN found out that the grand jury was handing out subpoenas in relation to the Russia Collision investigation.
If Trump had more political clout and memory bank of a peanut he would know that Richard Nixon did the same shit and firing the guys in charge of investigating you absolutely did not stop investigation or the subsequent impeachment.

undeadsuitor:

Parasondox:
I wanna hear someone defend this or try to play devils advocate.

Im pretty sure the Devil is grasping at straws at this point

'BUT... but Killary! The Liberals... The Librullllllzzzz... KILLARY BENGHAZEMAILS!'

Dragonbums:

If Trump had more political clout and memory bank of a peanut he would know that Richard Nixon did the same shit and firing the guys in charge of investigating you absolutely did not stop investigation or the subsequent impeachment.

It didn't save Nixon.

On the other hand, Nixon was operating in a very diffrent time to now - less sensationalist, trivial, partisan, etc. A character like Trump would never even have made it to president in Nixon's day. Back then a party could not stomach a president caught doing that sort of misconduct. Now, perhaps, they either can stomach it or think they can whitewash it away, and their allied media will help them do so.

WhiteFangofWhoa:

undeadsuitor:

Parasondox:
I wanna hear someone defend this or try to play devils advocate.

Im pretty sure the Devil is grasping at straws at this point

'BUT... but Killary! The Liberals... The Librullllllzzzz... KILLARY BENGHAZEMAILS!'

I know we're both joking, but the actual stated reason he was fired by the administration was that he didn't 'get' Hillary. So you're not far off.

Agema:

Dragonbums:

If Trump had more political clout and memory bank of a peanut he would know that Richard Nixon did the same shit and firing the guys in charge of investigating you absolutely did not stop investigation or the subsequent impeachment.

It didn't save Nixon.

On the other hand, Nixon was operating in a very diffrent time to now - less sensationalist, trivial, partisan, etc. A character like Trump would never even have made it to president in Nixon's day. Back then a party could not stomach a president caught doing that sort of misconduct. Now, perhaps, they either can stomach it or think they can whitewash it away, and their allied media will help them do so.

True but let's not forget that Trump now has records low approval ratings from both sides of the isle (I sometimes forget that many Republicans did not like him at all and more stayed home and didn't vote than the Romney election.) He has shown himself to be politically toxic to anyone who is attached to him unless you are in a district so red you're safe (freedom caucus) and in general burns bridges like a moron.
While the reasons for Congress dumping Trump is shameful in how greedy and self centered it is- nontheless it gets the job done.
The one thing MSM has done right so far was sensationalize the Russian investigation as much as they did with Hillary and her emails. And unlike the latter the former actually has smoke and fire spouting all over the place. And Americans in general never really 'liked' the Russians.

undeadsuitor:

WhiteFangofWhoa:

undeadsuitor:

Im pretty sure the Devil is grasping at straws at this point

'BUT... but Killary! The Liberals... The Librullllllzzzz... KILLARY BENGHAZEMAILS!'

I know we're both joking, but the actual stated reason he was fired by the administration was that he didn't 'get' Hillary. So you're not far off.

You would think that, what- 30 years of 'not getting Hillary' would tell people that there was nothing to go off of outside of carelessness by now. I mean I have no love for the woman but Christ this is some true dedication.

I think the likeliest scenario is that Comey was fired for incompetence. The guy put on quite the display over the past year and change. A firing hardly seems like an extraordinary, out of left field sacking of a noble public servant at the height of his excellence.

That said, the timing and optics of it are hilariously bad. I'd say its the stuff political suicide is made of, but Trump's teflon campaign suggests "political suicide" is not and might never be a term that can be applied to him.

Dragonbums:

True but let's not forget that Trump now has records low approval ratings from both sides of the isle (I sometimes forget that many Republicans did not like him at all and more stayed home and didn't vote than the Romney election.) He has shown himself to be politically toxic to anyone who is attached to him unless you are in a district so red you're safe (freedom caucus) and in general burns bridges like a moron.

Its looking like Trump has a cult like following amongst the red states, with a lot of the GOP base now being the Trump base. They could 'lose' that portions of their supporters if they turn on him, which is bad for the GOP, good for everyone else.

BloatedGuppy:
I think the likeliest scenario is that Comey was fired for incompetence. The guy put on quite the display over the past year and change. A firing hardly seems like an extraordinary, out of left field sacking of a noble public servant at the height of his excellence.

That said, the timing and optics of it are hilariously bad. I'd say its the stuff political suicide is made of, but Trump's teflon campaign suggests "political suicide" is not and might never be a term that can be applied to him.

I think "incompetence" is unduly harsh. I don't think the question is whether or not Comey made poor/questionable decisions over the last year as it pertains to the election -- he did. The questions are 1) do those decisions and conduct historically meet the standard for removing a sitting FBI director (I haven't seen a single educated person familiar with the topic argue the answer is yes), and 2) why dismiss Comey for those decisions NOW rather than on Jan. 20 when he took office, especially since some of those decisions were actually lauded by Trump and his administration at the time?

These arguments have been made by smarter, more eloquent people so I'll just cite/link this piece from Just Security:

"We are asked to believe that the decision to fire the FBI director -- so abruptly he learned about it from a cable news chyron while out of D.C. -- was based on a dashed off memo, and a response from the Attorney General, both issued the same day. We are asked to believe that it was motivated by Comey's breaches of FBI protocol: First, in publicly criticizing Hillary Clinton, rather than letting Attorney General Loretta Lynch announce the decision that the former Secretary would not be indicted, and then in informing Congress that he had (fruitlessly, as it turned out) reopened the investigation into her e-mails. These are breaches both Trump and Sessions praised effusively at the time, with Sessions even declaring that Comey had an "absolute duty" to act as he did. All of them, of course, were well known long before Trump took office and chose to retain Comey."
https://www.justsecurity.org/40770/obvious-thoughts-comey-firing/

And I'll end with saying that you can believe that Comey did a terrible job with the election related investigations/decisions and still think that Trump's firing of him AT THIS TIME, while conducting the Russia probe, is totally and 100 percent out of bounds and a gross abuse of power.

Exley97:
And I'll end with saying that you can believe that Comey did a terrible job with the election related investigations/decisions and still think that Trump's firing of him AT THIS TIME, while conducting the Russia probe, is totally and 100 percent out of bounds and a gross abuse of power.

Well, I'm not American, so I actually don't know how far the President's authority extends in these circumstances. I would think removing a public servant from his office would fall within that scope, but I actually don't know.

Comey seemed to spend most of the last year stepping in pies, so the fact he was in hot water also didn't seem particularly surprising. That Donald Trump...

1. Was caught out being hypocritical, changing his tune from one moment to the next.
2. Has done something unprecedented for a sitting president.
3. Has behaved in a manner that isn't "presidential".
4. Has made a controversial policy decision.

Etc, etc, etc. seems very much like a continuation of the same program we've all been watching for a couple of years now. Of course. Of course he did those things. This is the same fucking guy, isn't it?

I guess at the end of the day, I acknowledge that I am rather virulently anti-Trump and rather aggressively left leaning in my politics, so I'm pretty hesitant to jump on impeachment bandwagons or to throw my weight behind freshly born conspiracy theories because I'm trying to be cognizant of my bias. In my ideal political world, people would wait for the facts to come in before launching incendiary sound bytes or speculating openly about gross malfeasance if less outrageous possibilities were available for consideration. I think Trump is symptomatic of the problem facing the US at the moment, and not the cause of it, and I don't want "my side" to be party to partisan hysteria.

However, I'm also wildly ignorant of many of the finer nuances of the situation, so I'll recuse myself from further comment.

Getting the distinct impression that the part of Trump's letter that says, paraphrasing, 'Though I totally appreciate how you told me *louder voice* THREE DIFFERENT TIMES I WASN'T BEING INVESTIGATED...' wasn't directed at Comey so much as it was a desperate stage whisper for everybody else. xP

BloatedGuppy:

Exley97:
And I'll end with saying that you can believe that Comey did a terrible job with the election related investigations/decisions and still think that Trump's firing of him AT THIS TIME, while conducting the Russia probe, is totally and 100 percent out of bounds and a gross abuse of power.

Well, I'm not American, so I actually don't know how far the President's authority extends in these circumstances. I would think removing a public servant from his office would fall within that scope, but I actually don't know.

FBI directors are supposed to serve 10-year terms, but yes, the President does have the authority to fire them. However, it's *extremely* rare to see it happen -- like, once, in the nearly 250-year history of the country. Bill Clinton fired Bill Sessions the second year into his first term, and the circumstances were extraordinary -- he was found to be guilty of an assortment of ethics violations, abuses and improprieties in a 161-page report (misusing FBI funds for personal use, avoiding taxes, lying about it, etc.). The investigation into Sessions actually began under George H.W. Bush's administration, and the former Republican attorney general recommended removing him. So the move had bipartisan support.

BloatedGuppy:

Comey seemed to spend most of the last year stepping in pies, so the fact he was in hot water also didn't seem particularly surprising. That Donald Trump...

1. Was caught out being hypocritical, changing his tune from one moment to the next.
2. Has done something unprecedented for a sitting president.
3. Has behaved in a manner that isn't "presidential".
4. Has made a controversial policy decision.

Etc, etc, etc. seems very much like a continuation of the same program we've all been watching for a couple of years now. Of course. Of course he did those things. This is the same fucking guy, isn't it?

I guess at the end of the day, I acknowledge that I am rather virulently anti-Trump and rather aggressively left leaning in my politics, so I'm pretty hesitant to jump on impeachment bandwagons or to throw my weight behind freshly born conspiracy theories because I'm trying to be cognizant of my bias. In my ideal political world, people would wait for the facts to come in before launching incendiary sound bytes or speculating openly about gross malfeasance if less outrageous possibilities were available for consideration. I think Trump is symptomatic of the problem facing the US at the moment, and not the cause of it, and I don't want "my side" to be party to partisan hysteria.

However, I'm also wildly ignorant of many of the finer nuances of the situation, so I'll recuse myself from further comment.

Two thoughts -- First...yes, I suppose this is consistent with Trump's reckless behavior and breaking of political norms and expected standards. But as many people have said, this takes it to a new level when you consider what Comey was actually doing (latest reports claim Comey had asked the DoJ for more funding for the Russia hacking/collusion investigation last week and was denied). And I'm surprised that apparently NO ONE close to him -- not a single cabinet member, GOP congressman, or campaign member -- got to him and tried to stop him. I'm actually amazed by this. I have no doubt he wanted to dump Comey, but I'm shocked that those around Trump didn't do anything to stop it.

Second, I don't think you or anyone else don't need to recuse yourself on these matters because they're complex and, to put it lightly, we are in uncharted fucking waters here.

Exley97:
And I'm surprised that apparently NO ONE close to him -- not a single cabinet member, GOP congressman, or campaign member -- got to him and tried to stop him. I'm actually amazed by this. I have no doubt he wanted to dump Comey, but I'm shocked that those around Trump didn't do anything to stop it.

I'm surprised you think anyone on Earth can talk him out of any of his petty, demented rages.

It goes without saying if he is not taken down legally, war is now on the table. Any child could read the news and know the stakes and know who's guilty. The overwhelming weight of evidence of the dangers of this man is in commodity for the most average of people. Why should the country wait any longer? It seems the legal route has been used up and the illegal route is just sitting there waiting to be used. Is it on the tips of your tongues? Do I have to say the obvious? If the law fails then the people must succeed in its place even if that means abandoning the law in pursuit of a better one. This is not the time for weak words. Connect with your friends. Tell them how you feel. Make plans for the future. We need to unite as a people and prove we are not submissive pawns. The real draining of the swamp begins now.

Epyc Wynn:
Any child could read the news and know the stakes and know who's guilty.

Well except the people who like Trump and republican won't read about it, or will read a version that's mostly false or where event are heavily distorted. I mean, a very significant number of people truly believe that Hillary Clinton deserve jail (or even the death penalty) for what she did (of course in the version of event they've learn she directly lead to the death of plenty of people and possibly created ISIS), so Comey really did botch up the investigation for them.

So to them if, lets say, Trump was deposed by the army after for obviously being corrupt and working for Russia, that would be nothing less than a Coup d'?tat for them cause he was elected (in there mind being elected by a minority is totally legitimate).

Epyc Wynn:
It goes without saying if he is not taken down legally, war is now on the table. Any child could read the news and know the stakes and know who's guilty. The overwhelming weight of evidence of the dangers of this man is in commodity for the most average of people. Why should the country wait any longer? It seems the legal route has been used up and the illegal route is just sitting there waiting to be used. Is it on the tips of your tongues? Do I have to say the obvious? If the law fails then the people must succeed in its place even if that means abandoning the law in pursuit of a better one. This is not the time for weak words. Connect with your friends. Tell them how you feel. Make plans for the future. We need to unite as a people and prove we are not submissive pawns. The real draining of the swamp begins now.

As much as this episode is evidence of some form of malfeasance, it really pales in comparison to the effect even of just the AHCA. Like, Watergate was just a burglary and a cover-up. Compared to the Gulf of Tonkin resolution, it's nothing aside from the fact that it took down a president by means other than voting. Firing Comey is evidence that Trump is afraid he or someone on his team is going to be caught for something-- not something all that important to the country in comparison to its other problems, probably, but something like Al Capone's tax evasion or, indeed, a hotel burglary.

If this merits a revolution, the time for revolution has long since arrived.

BloatedGuppy:
I think the likeliest scenario is that Comey was fired for incompetence. The guy put on quite the display over the past year and change. A firing hardly seems like an extraordinary, out of left field sacking of a noble public servant at the height of his excellence.

That said, the timing and optics of it are hilariously bad. I'd say its the stuff political suicide is made of, but Trump's teflon campaign suggests "political suicide" is not and might never be a term that can be applied to him.

The timing is waaay too coincidental. Comey asked the deputy attorney general for more resources into the Russia probe just eight days before he was fired, and White House leaks say that Trump had been deliberating whether or not to fire Comey for "about a week."

Comey was fired because of the Russia investigation. Trump wants all that to just blow over and for some reason, he can't understand why it won't; he literally screams at the television when it's showing a report about the Russia probe. So then Comey comes along asking for more funds to pursue the probe, and guess what? He's fired a week later.

BloatedGuppy:

Exley97:
And I'll end with saying that you can believe that Comey did a terrible job with the election related investigations/decisions and still think that Trump's firing of him AT THIS TIME, while conducting the Russia probe, is totally and 100 percent out of bounds and a gross abuse of power.

Well, I'm not American, so I actually don't know how far the President's authority extends in these circumstances. I would think removing a public servant from his office would fall within that scope, but I actually don't know.

Legally speaking, Trump has the executive power to dismiss the head of the FBI. It's a federal department, and heads of federal departments are nominated by the White House, confirmed by Congress, and can be fired by the White House.

Historically, it has only ever happened once before. Bill Clinton fired his head of the FBI in 1993 over an ethics scandal involving the director's use of FBI funds to furnish his home with a security system. At the time, the FBI's reputation had been tarnished by the handling of the Ruby Ridge and Waco sieges, as well as the discovery of severe procedural deficiencies in the operation of the FBI's crime laboratory; the public pressure prompted new-inaugurated President Clinton to ask for Bill Session's resignation, which he refused to give, resulting in his dismissal. By contrast, Comey's misdeeds amount to briefing Congress on an ongoing investigation when he probably shouldn't have, and he found out his job was in trouble from news reports on a nearby TV.

Practically speaking? This is beyond an abuse of power. I mean, it is an abuse of power; Trump literally abused his power of appointment to dismiss the head of an agency that was investigating him and his campaign for what could potentially amount to criminal espionage. But this is more than that; Trump is opening himself up to accusations of obstruction of justice, which is difficult to prove in court but which formed a part of the articles of impeachment for both Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton.

BloatedGuppy:
That Donald Trump...

1. Was caught out being hypocritical, changing his tune from one moment to the next.
2. Has done something unprecedented for a sitting president.
3. Has behaved in a manner that isn't "presidential".
4. Has made a controversial policy decision.

Etc, etc, etc. seems very much like a continuation of the same program we've all been watching for a couple of years now. Of course. Of course he did those things. This is the same fucking guy, isn't it?

Of course it's all in character for Trump. Trump has completely and stubbornly refused to change his behaviour in any way since winning the election, even where it would clearly benefit him to do so.

What's important here is the fact that this is easily the most serious action Trump has taken so far. Tweeting about Obama wiretaps? That's not criminal. Banning all Muslims from entering the country? Unconstitutional, but not criminal. Pushing for a healthcare bill that would take twenty million people off health insurance and kill tens of thousands of vulnerable patients? Regrettably, that's not criminal.

But firing the head of your criminal investigative agency as said agency is investigating you for a crime? That's pretty fucking criminal. Not that he'll ever be prosecuted for it; he's protected from legal action regarding actions taken as President, and that won't change unless he's successfully impeached. And he won't be impeached until 2018 at the very earliest, because the Republicans have clearly drawn the line at how much licking of Trump's butt is too much buttlicking, and it's so far away and out of sight that Trump could strangle a kitten on-air right now and Mitch McConnell's next words would be "Mrrrph? Nrgh, slrrph mrrgh."

looking at the american political news lately is like i tuned into a very dark comedy

So, apparently the Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum couldn't help but troll Trump a little on this, given a lot of comparisons that have been raised to Watergate and the like.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/11/us/politics/nixon-library-tweet-trump.html

Adam Jensen:

It wouldn't surprise me if he were to nominate that insane fascist sheriff David Clarke.

Death by dehydration and beating is merely a new form of enhanced interrogation for law enforcement. I'm sure David Clarke has much to offer the FBI...

Like how to beat a rap for serial murder of detainees. He's the perfect Trump candidate in that sense.

Oh boy, looks like Trump is already contradicting the official account his administration spread as to why he made his decision, going from 'It was at the recommendation of the Attorney General and Deputy Attorney General' to 'I was totes planning to fire him all along anyway, all my decision!'

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/05/11/trump-just-said-he-was-going-to-fire-comey-all-along-contradicting-his-earlier-lie.html

SeventhSigil:
Oh boy, looks like Trump is already contradicting the official account his administration spread as to why he made his decision, going from 'It was at the recommendation of the Attorney General and Deputy Attorney General' to 'I was totes planning to fire him all along anyway, all my decision!'

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/05/11/trump-just-said-he-was-going-to-fire-comey-all-along-contradicting-his-earlier-lie.html

Yeah, I just finished reading a report on that from another source.

Yesterday they were really nailing the talking point of it being a recommendation from the DOJ and that was flimsy enough. With Trump contradicting that, I have no idea how the White House will spin that and how they will do damage control.

Whatever narrative they were going for has all but been destroyed. It will be interesting to see how the WH will handle it, and what the fallout will be once it starts becoming clear that there might be more to Comey's termination than what the WH is letting on.

SeventhSigil:
Oh boy, looks like Trump is already contradicting the official account his administration spread as to why he made his decision, going from 'It was at the recommendation of the Attorney General and Deputy Attorney General' to 'I was totes planning to fire him all along anyway, all my decision!'

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/05/11/trump-just-said-he-was-going-to-fire-comey-all-along-contradicting-his-earlier-lie.html

Trump can't help himself. Dude has an obsession with being seen as the boss, the decision maker. Any narrative that takes the control out of his hands he's going to contradict at some point.

Fiz_The_Toaster:

SeventhSigil:
Oh boy, looks like Trump is already contradicting the official account his administration spread as to why he made his decision, going from 'It was at the recommendation of the Attorney General and Deputy Attorney General' to 'I was totes planning to fire him all along anyway, all my decision!'

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/05/11/trump-just-said-he-was-going-to-fire-comey-all-along-contradicting-his-earlier-lie.html

Yeah, I just finished reading a report on that from another source.

Yesterday they were really nailing the talking point of it being a recommendation from the DOJ and that was flimsy enough. With Trump contradicting that, I have no idea how the White House will spin that and how they will do damage control.

Whatever narrative they were going for has all but been destroyed. It will be interesting to see how the WH will handle it, and what the fallout will be once it starts becoming clear that there might be more to Comey's termination than what the WH is letting on.

This is a bit off-topic, but I almost (almost) feel sorry for the folks that have to try and find workarounds and justifications for Trump's general... um... well, PR. I can just imagine going to bed every day, after a long day of work, dreading what new disaster that rambling lunatic has spouted that I'm going to spend hours of time, even as I age by months every day, trying to twist or spin in such a way that it comes out semi-reasonable.

Then I remember that they're actively trying to support said lunatic and lose any chance of feeling sympathetic. =P

Jux:

Trump can't help himself. Dude has an obsession with being seen as the boss, the decision maker. Any narrative that takes the control out of his hands he's going to contradict at some point.

Yeah, basically what I figure. One thing I'm curious about is whether his outright admission that he asked Comey if he was under investigation is in any way illegal. >_>

I was waiting for this. Jamie-boy is what we call in the villain industry 'a loose end'. First, he dicks up things in your favor by opening up a case leading to nowhere, then when he tries to do something competent, you snip the line and he drowns.

Come on with all this pointless story plot- get tot he impeachment level already sow e can make way for President Pen... oh damn. Still better than the corrupt hothead but damn that idea is scary. At least we see that the corruption pervades every level of government and both neither side is devoid of corruption. firing comey was the wrong move on his part and I hope we have an impeachment trial before the end of the year.

Jux:

SeventhSigil:
Oh boy, looks like Trump is already contradicting the official account his administration spread as to why he made his decision, going from 'It was at the recommendation of the Attorney General and Deputy Attorney General' to 'I was totes planning to fire him all along anyway, all my decision!'

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/05/11/trump-just-said-he-was-going-to-fire-comey-all-along-contradicting-his-earlier-lie.html

Trump can't help himself. Dude has an obsession with being seen as the boss, the decision maker. Any narrative that takes the control out of his hands he's going to contradict at some point.

Up until the trial then suddenly he will try his damnedest to push it on others. Like a boss.

Parasondox:
I wanna hear someone defend this or try to play devils advocate.

Well it's hard to, but I'm gonna say that I think he should have been fired for the bs that was last years farce on Hilary. No comment on Trump firing the people investigating him though, it's pretty hard to defend that in any way since surely that's a massive conflict of interest.

SeventhSigil:
Yeah, basically what I figure. One thing I'm curious about is whether his outright admission that he asked Comey if he was under investigation is in any way illegal. >_>

According to a few interviews I've listened to on NPR, not illegal, but very inappropriate.

In short, he's gone too far and needs to be stopped.

Impeachment or war. Whoever is backing him now is screwed later.

Epyc Wynn:
In short, he's gone too far and needs to be stopped.

Impeachment or war. Whoever is backing him now is screwed later.

No. Vote him out. If you can't do that, you're not winning a war against him either (lol).

Seanchaidh:

Epyc Wynn:
In short, he's gone too far and needs to be stopped.

Impeachment or war. Whoever is backing him now is screwed later.

No. Vote him out. If you can't do that, you're not winning a war against him either (lol).

We're about four months into his presidency and have forty-four months left. You really want to go through all this shit eleven more times?

He needs to be impeached, and that can only happen with a Democrat landslide in 2018. That's where everyone's efforts need to be focused right now. If you're American and you're reading this, find out who your representatives are, find out who the candidates are, and make sure to vote next year.

bastardofmelbourne:

Seanchaidh:

Epyc Wynn:
In short, he's gone too far and needs to be stopped.

Impeachment or war. Whoever is backing him now is screwed later.

No. Vote him out. If you can't do that, you're not winning a war against him either (lol).

We're about four months into his presidency and have forty-four months left. You really want to go through all this shit eleven more times?

He needs to be impeached, and that can only happen with a Democrat landslide in 2018. That's where everyone's efforts need to be focused right now. If you're American and you're reading this, find out who your representatives are, find out who the candidates are, and make sure to vote next year.

IDK, the worst he can do to me in Australia is start a war with China or suddenly end the AUSFTA... the former is arguablyworse, and I end up getting an emergency marching letter drafting all tolerable age groups of former enlistees to muster. I think Trump might do some good, in that Americans might actually learn what happens from this and decide to go in a new direction. Even if Republicans control the Congress, at the rate he seems to be pissing them off impeachment might still make it. Every Republican is looking at Trump and possibly thinking to themselves: "If I don't look like I'm fighting him, themost unpopular president in history, I may lose my seat."

The Congressman that leads the charge is going to be immortalized in the public's mindset, and that alone might 0be enough to stop Republicans from closing ranks, passing around the memo that 'Mum's the word.'

If you put a sizable enough bounty (in the form of infamy) on Trump's head, Republicans may be the first to go for it to secure a strong name in the next presidential race. Works well in Australia. Public opinion alone has lead to a state whereby no Prime Minister has served from one election to makeit to the next since John Howard. All because of internal-party backstabbing.

The best we can do is start supporting people like John McCain if you want to hurt Trump. Notsimply pretend Democrats automaticallydeserve your vote for 'nhot being like Trump' .... that strategyfailed, and unlesstheDemocrats start producing more Gabbards and Sanders it's not good enough. But what we can do is increase noise for peopl openly pushing turtled Republicans from coming out of their shell and joining rallying around McCain.

That will make it more palatable for other Republicans to start making themselves known ... that being anti-Trump and breaking from the mold of silence is a viable, re-electable position.

That will hurt Trump more than saying; "Vote Not Trump."

Trump might be the president to make impeachments more commonplace ... a more common weapon in the congressional arsenal regardless of partisanship.

Wouldn't be a bad thing, either. Assuming you believe democracy should be both about consistency of ethics and action,and actually standing up for one's divergent views rather than just spin.

bastardofmelbourne:

Seanchaidh:

Epyc Wynn:
In short, he's gone too far and needs to be stopped.

Impeachment or war. Whoever is backing him now is screwed later.

No. Vote him out. If you can't do that, you're not winning a war against him either (lol).

We're about four months into his presidency and have forty-four months left. You really want to go through all this shit eleven more times?

Why not? It's great television. :P

And anyway, on Comey: Democrats have been calling for his head for half a year now, to the point where "Trump fires Comey" got not gasps of disbelief or disapproval but jubilant cheers when it was announced on Colbert's talk show very shortly after it happened. All of a sudden we're shocked and appalled about what people have been calling for for awhile. And it's such an obvious mistake if it was intended to help make the Russia investigation go away. So, really, I'm finding all of this to be a distraction. Much worse is being done by the Trump administration and Congressional Republicans. The focus on Trump and not the GOP agenda and Democratic reaction to it is somewhat harmful. Frankly, impeaching Trump doesn't solve the most serious problems that this administration poses, and that is that it can pass things like AHCA or massive tax cuts, an inclination which is hardly unique to Trump. An impeachment would be theatrical but ultimately somewhat inconsequential in my view. I don't trust Pence to be any smarter or more effective in any way that I would appreciate, and I don't think he's any less of an empty, superficial shell of a human being. The appropriate course right now is to appoint a special prosecutor for simple due diligence reasons and keep our eyes on both the big picture and what's going on in Congress.

As to the 2018 elections? Get involved before the general elections: nominate populist left Democrats rather than corporate ones if you possibly can.

Seanchaidh:
Why not? It's great television. :P

This was something I thought about, actually; I've never consumed news in the quantities that I'm consuming it right now. Something about Trump just hits all my hate-buttons and I get a huge hate-boner.

I can't imagine how bored I'll be when the show's finally over and the news is full of boring competent people talking about boring important things once again.

Seanchaidh:
And anyway, on Comey: Democrats have been calling for his head for half a year now, to the point where "Trump fires Comey" got not gasps of disbelief or disapproval but jubilant cheers when it was announced on Colbert's talk show very shortly after it happened.

The apparent hypocrisy gets brought up a lot - mostly by Trump apologists going "but whataboutthis and whataboutthat?" - but the fact is that when Schumer made those statements he probably thought there was exactly zero chance of Comey being fired. It's real easy for Chuck Schumer to criticise Comey when he thinks that Comey is safely in Trump's good books, just like how it was real easy for the House Republicans to pass a law repealing Obamacare fifty times (literally) when they knew it wouldn't succeed but they took months to get around to it once they were actually holding the ball. As soon as the hypothetical becomes reality, people suddenly start thinking about consequences.

Comey made an easy scapegoat for the Democrat's loss. Clinton's own comments on it didn't help. I'll admit, circa mid-November, I found myself trawling suspiciously through news of Comey's stunt trying to find evidence that he was some kind of Russian plant. The reality is more complicated; it was a perfect storm combining Comey, Russia, massive online misinformation, the alt-right backlash against PC culture, Trump's spotlight-hogging, Clinton's baggage and her campaign's tepidity. It's not a for-want-of-a-nail situation.

Let's face it, though; if Hypothetical President Clinton had fired Comey, the Republicans would be exploding. I don't think she would've, though. The rage against Comey comes not so much from what he did as the idea that it cost Clinton the presidency; if she'd won anyway, no-one would care.

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