BREAKING: James Comey, FBI head, has been fired

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bastardofmelbourne:

Seanchaidh:
Why not? It's great television. :P

This was something I thought about, actually; I've never consumed news in the quantities that I'm consuming it right now. Something about Trump just hits all my hate-buttons and I get a huge hate-boner.

I can't imagine how bored I'll be when the show's finally over and the news is full of boring competent people talking about boring important things once again.

Seanchaidh:
And anyway, on Comey: Democrats have been calling for his head for half a year now, to the point where "Trump fires Comey" got not gasps of disbelief or disapproval but jubilant cheers when it was announced on Colbert's talk show very shortly after it happened.

The apparent hypocrisy gets brought up a lot - mostly by Trump apologists going "but whataboutthis and whataboutthat?" - but the fact is that when Schumer made those statements he probably thought there was exactly zero chance of Comey being fired. It's real easy for Chuck Schumer to criticise Comey when he thinks that Comey is safely in Trump's good books, just like how it was real easy for the House Republicans to pass a law repealing Obamacare fifty times (literally) when they knew it wouldn't succeed but they took months to get around to it once they were actually holding the ball. As soon as the hypothetical becomes reality, people suddenly start thinking about consequences.

Comey made an easy scapegoat for the Democrat's loss. Clinton's own comments on it didn't help. I'll admit, circa mid-November, I found myself trawling suspiciously through news of Comey's stunt trying to find evidence that he was some kind of Russian plant. The reality is more complicated; it was a perfect storm combining Comey, Russia, massive online misinformation, the alt-right backlash against PC culture, Trump's spotlight-hogging, Clinton's baggage and her campaign's tepidity. It's not a for-want-of-a-nail situation.

Let's face it, though; if Hypothetical President Clinton had fired Comey, the Republicans would be exploding. I don't think she would've, though. The rage against Comey comes not so much from what he did as the idea that it cost Clinton the presidency; if she'd won anyway, no-one would care.

I just don't want to put so much rhetorical weight on the Comey firing because I think the Russia thing will probably still amount to "Flynn is an idiot" and possibly "the Trump family is full of idiots who owe money to Russian oligarchs." And that'll be that. It's not illegal to owe money to someone. If it's fine for Trump to still own his gigantic business while President, it's totally fine for him to be up to his eyeballs in personal debt (or business debt) as well. I don't think either of those situations is a great place for a President to be in, but there's no very consistent and principled standard which disallows one but not the other. And, for now, the first one is OK. Because CNN isn't really talking about it anymore, so it must be. I think the more likely explanation is that Comey kept publicly disagreeing with or correcting stupid Trump tweets and was being held up by Democrats as someone who might undermine Trump's authority, and Trump the baby doesn't like that; he'd rather have someone he can control as FBI head. That's not really "OK", but it's also not "Aha! We've got him dead to rights!" For Trump supporters and probably a fair number of independents, it'll be like Hillary's handling of the private email server controversy is to Hillary supporters: a nothing burger.

The real question will be is if Trump can last until 2020 because the shit will not stop stinking.

Parasondox:
The real question will be is if Trump can last until 2020 because the shit will not stop stinking.

My answer is the shit that keeps on stinking is precisely why Trump will last till 2020. Trump is a huge distraction, taking the spotlight off whatever horrid laws Congress wishes to enact whilst receiving lobbying money. Consider Congress letting ISPs sell your browsing history. A change virtually no one wants yet received no public backlash. Congressmen aren't worried about party unpopularity when they're unpopular themselves anyway and it's size of the campaign warchest that counts.

If the Democrats take control of the House in 2018, impeachment is more likely but removing Trump is going to need charges of treason and that's going to be a tough sell. With his fanatical supporters and Fox News, it'll take some really obvious treason to prevent a huge backlash.

warmachine:

Parasondox:
The real question will be is if Trump can last until 2020 because the shit will not stop stinking.

My answer is the shit that keeps on stinking is precisely why Trump will last till 2020. Trump is a huge distraction, taking the spotlight off whatever horrid laws Congress wishes to enact whilst receiving lobbying money. Consider Congress letting ISPs sell your browsing history. A change virtually no one wants yet received no public backlash. Congressmen aren't worried about party unpopularity when they're unpopular themselves anyway and it's size of the campaign warchest that counts.

If the Democrats take control of the House in 2018, impeachment is more likely but removing Trump is going to need charges of treason and that's going to be a tough sell. With his fanatical supporters and Fox News, it'll take some really obvious treason to prevent a huge backlash.

So what you are saying is... The people, every citizen of the United States of America, and yes including those that voted for the orange asshat, are simply just pawns in the game of fucked up chess where the Queen, or King or whatever, gets the riches off those who are misguided.

To those who still defend the man and use sheepish language to insult those that oppose him, here is a simple message for you.

WAKE UP!! You are being played and the more you play this stupid game of denial and invisible shit throwing, the most it will hurt you on the realisation that it was all for nothing and are nothing to those you are loyal too. Stop the bullshit and wake up. If not, then no one will have any sympathy for you when you, yes YOU, have a dyer concern.

If you didn't take that seriously, then carry on as normal. Keep playing this game you play. Hope it arouses you inside. Don't shed tears when your water well is dry.

'Pawns' is the wrong word. The US populace are 'victims', betrayed by the politicians who are supposed to represent their interests, rather than just those of corporate lobbyists. Trump is not the real problem, the members of the House are.

So the inevitable Trump Twitter rant hath struck. Just going to transcribe the whole thing here;

"Again, the story that there was collusion between the Russians & Trump campaign was fabricated by Dems as an excuse for losing the election. The Fake Media is working overtime today! As a very active President with lots of things happening, it is not possible for my surrogates to stand at podium with perfect accuracy! Maybe the best thing to do would be to cancel all future "press briefings" and hand out written responses for the sake of accuracy???"

A little later;

"James Comey better hope that there are no "tapes" of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press! When James Clapper himself, and virtually everyone else with knowledge of the witch hunt, says there is no collusion, when does it end?"

And a little later;

"China just agreed that the U.S. will be allowed to sell beef, and other major products, into China once again. This is REAL news!"

Sooooo yeah. Trump is waving off the discrepancy by insisting he's super, super busy, threatening however seriously or otherwise to cancel all future press briefings, threatening Comey, lying about Clapper, aaaaand trying desperately to wave towards an unrelated story that makes him look good.

SeventhSigil:
So the inevitable Trump Twitter rant hath struck. Just going to transcribe the whole thing here;

"Again, the story that there was collusion between the Russians & Trump campaign was fabricated by Dems as an excuse for losing the election. The Fake Media is working overtime today! As a very active President with lots of things happening, it is not possible for my surrogates to stand at podium with perfect accuracy! Maybe the best thing to do would be to cancel all future "press briefings" and hand out written responses for the sake of accuracy???"

A little later;

"James Comey better hope that there are no "tapes" of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press! When James Clapper himself, and virtually everyone else with knowledge of the witch hunt, says there is no collusion, when does it end?"

And a little later;

"China just agreed that the U.S. will be allowed to sell beef, and other major products, into China once again. This is REAL news!"

Sooooo yeah. Trump is waving off the discrepancy by insisting he's super, super busy, threatening however seriously or otherwise to cancel all future press briefings, threatening Comey, lying about Clapper, aaaaand trying desperately to wave towards an unrelated story that makes him look good.

Did you see the Twitter responses? Following the blind man over the edge of the cliff and defending him without question? We can say they are trolls trying to be funny but I don't think so. They believe this man like a false prophet... then for some reason say Hilary is worse. Is indoctrination a serious thing in the US? Please someone answer. How does blind loyalty even grow?

Does everybody just have to hope that the republican party are noble enough to take trump away then? Is there literally nothing else to do but that? No opposition to explain and offer a better alternative or fight for some kind of legal intervention? It seems nobody is willing to take any action against this insulting situation. It's insulting to every civilian that has any respect for their country's place in the world. What in the fuck happened? There's no point joking around if nothing's being done.

Xsjadoblayde:
Does everybody just have to hope that the republican party are noble enough to take trump away then?

I hope not. Because the GOP doesn't give a fuck. They're trying to steal the entire democratic process. To practically kill it once and for all. They're now gearing up for another war on drugs with mandatory minimum sentencing and harsh penalties. Who do you think is going to be affected by that the most? That's right, African Americans. Trump also just established a voting fraud commission and it's being led by Kris Kobach - a far right extremist. Look him up. He is practically a modern Nazi. The entire point of this commission is to make sure that minorities can't vote because they overwhelmingly vote for Democrats. They're trying to prevent the Democrats from taking over in 2018 by literally destroying the democratic process.

So now we have the White House that's being led by racists, bigots and modern Nazis, the DOJ being led by a guy who was considered too racist back in the 80's and a newly formed commission for the non-existent problem of voter fraud being run by a far-right lunatic. The GOP is quite literally the enemy of the people at this point. Openly so. So don't count on the enemy of the people to save the people.

Parasondox:

Did you see the Twitter responses? Following the blind man over the edge of the cliff and defending him without question? We can say they are trolls trying to be funny but I don't think so. They believe this man like a false prophet... then for some reason say Hilary is worse. Is indoctrination a serious thing in the US? Please someone answer. How does blind loyalty even grow?

Combination of factors, at least judging by the comments;

1) Trump is kind of their literal last hope at this point, as a number of them loathe both the Republicans and Democrats in pretty much equal measure. Trump was to be 'their' representative, and basically for a number of them is literally the only option they see where their viewpoint retains any sort of prominence in the political field.

2) Keep in mind that Trump has spent months specifically railing against polls, news articles, etc that cast him in a negative light, creating a narrative that anything (and I mean anything,) that casts him in a negative light is fabricated. 'Fake News,' in other words. To those who follow this doctrine with zeal, and who hold Trump's words as a sole arbiter of truth, it literally doesn't matter how frequent or extensive the reports of his lying, underhanded tactics become. On the contrary, it serves to his benefit, as it reinforces the idea that all the criticism is really Fake News, the desperate push of an evil establishment fearing his Great he'll make America again. If he says something, regardless of how absurd or ridiculous it is, his most dedicated supporters will believe him for no other reason than he said it. Similarly, any report against him is automatically false, regardless of data provided, for no other reason than it is against him.

3) I don't want to sound disparaging, but a lot of the pro-Trump support lately seems to be... poorly thought out. =P What I mean is that, at this point, I have rarely seen an effort to actually invoke nuance or circumstance, or even to be self-reflective. When the criticisms of Comey's firing were brought up, lots of Trump supporters were quick to crow the 'hypocrisy' of the left, as some had called for Comey's head months ago. Not only did they seem either deliberately obtuse, or simply ignorant of the smaller, more complex details surrounding the issue, but they didn't even seem to recognize their own hypocrisy. After all, during that same period the left were calling for Comey's head, Trump supporters were hailing him for the very same things that Trump used to. And yet, when the Trump administration insisted that it was the very 'treatment' of Hillary Clinton they had cheered that was being punished, they all seemed... fine with that?

I've also noticed that buzz words like 'libtard,' 'snowflake,' 'triggered' etc get thrown left and right as if political discussion were being Ad-Libbed. Being a Trump supporter seems to be pretty easy, so long as you know some one-size-fits-all labels. =P

Now, I'm not saying that Trump supporters are unable to process or utilize more complex facts, or that the left doesn't have plenty of people who partake in this same behavior... it's just that when you actually LOOK at those facts, many don't exactly serve the pro-Trump narrative. The nitty gritty details of the new health care bill, the skinny budget, the tax plan, Trump's travel expenses, a lot of his diplomatic overtures, the full breadth of his statements and interviews, his contradictions and duplicity, nearly any topic is a landmine of Trump either fucking something up, or screwing someone over. The further you dig, the more in-depth your discussion becomes, the less ground the pro-Trump group has to stand on. So the safest method?

Talk about how Clinton would totes have been worse. Call anyone against Trump a variety of names. Prattle off something that sounds patriotic, but ultimately comes off as propagandist. Don't get into too deep a discussion on what Trump has done or even, to an extent, what he has said since coming into office, and instead wave a victory flag while throwing out catchy hashtags. =P It's easy, it's a position that literally offers nothing that needs to BE defended, because it isn't rooted in logic anyway, and it can quickly spread and spam amongst a large group.

SeventhSigil:
So the inevitable Trump Twitter rant hath struck. Just going to transcribe the whole thing here;

"Again, the story that there was collusion between the Russians & Trump campaign was fabricated by Dems as an excuse for losing the election. The Fake Media is working overtime today! As a very active President with lots of things happening, it is not possible for my surrogates to stand at podium with perfect accuracy! Maybe the best thing to do would be to cancel all future "press briefings" and hand out written responses for the sake of accuracy???"

A little later;

"James Comey better hope that there are no "tapes" of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press! When James Clapper himself, and virtually everyone else with knowledge of the witch hunt, says there is no collusion, when does it end?"

And a little later;

"China just agreed that the U.S. will be allowed to sell beef, and other major products, into China once again. This is REAL news!"

Sooooo yeah. Trump is waving off the discrepancy by insisting he's super, super busy, threatening however seriously or otherwise to cancel all future press briefings, threatening Comey, lying about Clapper, aaaaand trying desperately to wave towards an unrelated story that makes him look good.

Chinese banks opening more diverse branch operations in the U.S. is bigger news. U.S. beef ... I mean it's peanuts. The U.S. beef supply was a feel good throw in for letting greater Chinese financials access to the U.S. market in exchange for leveraging support against North Korea.

Trump is a useful idiot.

To be fair, it's a longtime coming. You can't blame a country of currency and trade manipulation when they are asking you directly to allow their banks to operate in your backyard and for growing economic ties and economic transparency of direct investment.

Adam Jensen:

Xsjadoblayde:
Does everybody just have to hope that the republican party are noble enough to take trump away then?

I hope not. Because the GOP doesn't give a fuck. They're trying to steal the entire democratic process. To practically kill it once and for all. They're now gearing up for another war on drugs with mandatory minimum sentencing and harsh penalties. Who do you think is going to be affected by that the most? That's right, African Americans. Trump also just established a voting fraud commission and it's being led by Kris Kobach - a far right extremist. Look him up. He is practically a modern Nazi. The entire point of this commission is to make sure that minorities can't vote because they overwhelmingly vote for Democrats. They're trying to prevent the Democrats from taking over in 2018 by literally destroying the democratic process.

So now we have the White House that's being led by racists, bigots and modern Nazis, the DOJ being led by a guy who was considered too racist back in the 80's and a newly formed commission for the non-existent problem of voter fraud being run by a far-right lunatic. The GOP is quite literally the enemy of the people at this point. Openly so. So don't count on the enemy of the people to save the people.

Its very telling. Trump's popularity focused on the 'no political garbage, this is what you working class republicans really want, ain't it' rhetoric. Whilst all the higher class republicans laugh their rich asses off. I certainly hope this situation is an effective wake up call for any who may have backed the republicans with good intentions. People cannot keep being convinced to do what's bad for them. What is left for the rest to do?

Perhaps Mr. Trump likes how Nixon is portrayed on Futurama, and wants to be memorably infamous like him.

edit: Hmm... meant to post this in the other Comey thread.

Xsjadoblayde:
What is left for the rest to do?

Political activism. Luckily I no longer live in the US. But if you do, do yourself, your family and your country a favor and start doing something about this mess. These guys have it right: https://justicedemocrats.com/

Adam Jensen:

Xsjadoblayde:
What is left for the rest to do?

Political activism. Luckily I no longer live in the US. But if you do, do yourself, your family and your country a favor and start doing something about this mess. ...

Like, you mean be a powerful industry with vested interest in the status quo and create a lobby group with unlimited funds?
(ooh, that's some edgy cutting political satire right there)

Kwak:

Adam Jensen:
Political activism. Luckily I no longer live in the US. But if you do, do yourself, your family and your country a favor and start doing something about this mess. ...

Like, you mean be a powerful industry with vested interest in the status quo and create a lobby group with unlimited funds?
(ooh, that's some edgy cutting political satire right there)

See, that's a common misconception. It's not wealth necessarily that buys access to a politician's attention. Wealth just makes it much easier, because you can pay for dinners and airfare and hotel stays and all the other things a lobbyist uses while flying around the country arranging face-to-face meetings with politicians. But when it comes down to it, what changes a politician's mind about something is usually a face-to-face conversation with someone who has a convincing argument with some emotional weight behind it. It's easier than it sounds.

So keep track of town hall meetings, hang around your local representative's office, bug the crap out of their secretary, and above all remember that you're trying to convince them. Don't throw rotten fruit at them; just tell them that you're a voter, you've got something you want to say about healthcare, and then say it as clearly and eloquently as you can. Passion backed up by facts. The politicians themselves say that it usually works better than just dumping an envelope of money on their desk and saying "You've got a real nice Congressional seat here. Shame if anything happened to it."

So conflicts of interest are fine as long as the one holding them is on your team? No wonder Republicans are represented by the color red. They're secretly pro-Russian. (Mostly sarcasm but seriously wtf does it take to get more Republicans to admit his shit stinks?)

bastardofmelbourne:

Kwak:

Adam Jensen:
Political activism. Luckily I no longer live in the US. But if you do, do yourself, your family and your country a favor and start doing something about this mess. ...

Like, you mean be a powerful industry with vested interest in the status quo and create a lobby group with unlimited funds?
(ooh, that's some edgy cutting political satire right there)

See, that's a common misconception. It's not wealth necessarily that buys access to a politician's attention. Wealth just makes it much easier, because you can pay for dinners and airfare and hotel stays and all the other things a lobbyist uses while flying around the country arranging face-to-face meetings with politicians. But when it comes down to it, what changes a politician's mind about something is usually a face-to-face conversation with someone who has a convincing argument with some emotional weight behind it. It's easier than it sounds.

So keep track of town hall meetings, hang around your local representative's office, bug the crap out of their secretary, and above all remember that you're trying to convince them. Don't throw rotten fruit at them; just tell them that you're a voter, you've got something you want to say about healthcare, and then say it as clearly and eloquently as you can. Passion backed up by facts. The politicians themselves say that it usually works better than just dumping an envelope of money on their desk and saying "You've got a real nice Congressional seat here. Shame if anything happened to it."

Forgive me if I am skeptical when a politician says "No, we care more about what a voter wants than any bribe".

warmachine:
'Pawns' is the wrong word. The US populace are 'victims', betrayed by the politicians who are supposed to represent their interests, rather than just those of corporate lobbyists. Trump is not the real problem, the members of the House are.

Trump is just as much a problem as the house and senate. The current Republican party is only looking to make the wealthiest wealthier at all costs screwing over everyone else and the current plan is to create their own " alternative facts" by creating their own news outlets that are not actually news, but instead just promote whatever lies they want people to believe regardless of reality or actual facts. They do not even " need" lobbyists any more, as they are already catering to them to begin with.

bastardofmelbourne:

See, that's a common misconception. It's not wealth necessarily that buys access to a politician's attention. Wealth just makes it much easier, because you can pay for dinners and airfare and hotel stays and all the other things a lobbyist uses while flying around the country arranging face-to-face meetings with politicians. But when it comes down to it, what changes a politician's mind about something is usually a face-to-face conversation with someone who has a convincing argument with some emotional weight behind it. It's easier than it sounds.

Also bear in mind that several million dollars to fund the next re-election campaign is an additional convincing argument with emotional weight to add to your convincing argument with emotional weight.

Saelune:
Forgive me if I am skeptical when a politician says "No, we care more about what a voter wants than any bribe".

Agema:
Also bear in mind that several million dollars to fund the next re-election campaign is an additional convincing argument with emotional weight to add to your convincing argument with emotional weight.

Yeah, well, I don't dispute the existence of politicians who are corrupt assholes. I'm just saying that politicians are people too. That means that they're just as vulnerable to bribery and selfishness as the next person, but they're also just as vulnerable to emotion and persuasion.

bastardofmelbourne:

Yeah, well, I don't dispute the existence of politicians who are corrupt assholes. I'm just saying that politicians are people too. That means that they're just as vulnerable to bribery and selfishness as the next person, but they're also just as vulnerable to emotion and persuasion.

In ways I agree with this... and in ways I don't.

Specifically, the job requirement of being a politician may involve a certain rigour of belief. For instance, a great number of voters switch party, politicians much less so. Politicians may also be people more busy balancing other factors (like who'll be busy paying for their next electoral campaign).

Agema:

bastardofmelbourne:

Yeah, well, I don't dispute the existence of politicians who are corrupt assholes. I'm just saying that politicians are people too. That means that they're just as vulnerable to bribery and selfishness as the next person, but they're also just as vulnerable to emotion and persuasion.

In ways I agree with this... and in ways I don't.

Specifically, the job requirement of being a politician may involve a certain rigour of belief. For instance, a great number of voters switch party, politicians much less so. Politicians may also be people more busy balancing other factors (like who'll be busy paying for their next electoral campaign).

There is significant anecdotal evidence to support your view. For example, a GOP representative who was confronted at a town hall discussion by a cancer patient worried that the AHCA will kill her hugged his constituent and made her a promise that he would protect her. He then voted for the AHCA. (You've been hit by, you've been struck by, a smooth criminal!)

so apparently the latest is that comey wrote memos of his conversations with trump where trump asked him to stop the investigation into flynn... um yeah.. enjoy the almost 4 more years :)

Do we have to wait until 2018 to impeach because the Republicans are so partisan they won't admit his shit stinks?

Funny thing in the news today! According to the New York Times, Comey wrote (and shared with other FBI officials) an unclassified memorandum regarding a meeting he had with Trump where Trump literally asked him to drop the Flynn investigation.

New York Times:
"I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go," Mr. Trump told Mr. Comey, according to the memo. "He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go."

Mr. Trump told Mr. Comey that Mr. Flynn had done nothing wrong, according to the memo.

Mr. Comey did not say anything to Mr. Trump about curtailing the investigation, only replying: "I agree he is a good guy."

In a statement, the White House denied the version of events in the memo.

FriendoftheFallen:
Do we have to wait until 2018 to impeach because the Republicans are so partisan they won't admit his shit stinks?

The rep won't lose control in 2018, the seat that are up for grab are practically impossible for the dem to win, Trump really could literally stand in the middle of the street and shoot someone and he still wouldn't be in any trouble.

Maybe, maybe 2020 he'll get voted out, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

Meiam:
The rep won't lose control in 2018, the seat that are up for grab are practically impossible for the dem to win, Trump really could literally stand in the middle of the street and shoot someone and he still wouldn't be in any trouble.

Maybe, maybe 2020 he'll get voted out, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

The Reps are on track to losing the House, even if the Special Elections say otherwise. Only the Senate is likely to remain Republican, and that's due to how many seats Democrats have to give up, and how few seats Republicans have to worry about.

bastardofmelbourne:

New York Times:
"I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go," Mr. Trump told Mr. Comey, according to the memo. "He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go."

Mr. Trump told Mr. Comey that Mr. Flynn had done nothing wrong, according to the memo.

Mr. Comey did not say anything to Mr. Trump about curtailing the investigation, only replying: "I agree he is a good guy."

In a statement, the White House denied the version of events in the memo.

This might be it. This might be enough to get Trump in serious trouble, if not impeached (but not convicted). I could be wrong, but my bones are telling me this is serious.

Of course, Comey withholding Information like this is also very bad, but I don't doubt it's real.

Mr.Mattress:

This might be it. This might be enough to get Trump in serious trouble, if not impeached (but not convicted). I could be wrong, but my bones are telling me this is serious.

Of course, Comey withholding Information like this is also very bad, but I don't doubt it's real.

Honestly, I think that is what the whole "requesting more resources" thing was about. Comey is already known for ruining one presidency. He wanted to make sure each letter was perfect before dropping whatever findings he could have on Trump.

Think about it. If the president asks you for an immoral/illegal favor, you are damn sure to make sure every step you're taking from now on was preordained from up on high to keep any of the massive fallout from burning you as well.

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