Dakota Access Pipeline leaks in first week of operation

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one squirrel:
I am sure none of the people who are so outraged about this minor incident are supporting this "fascism" by never using anything that is made out of plastic and always picking up their groceries at the farm via bycicle.

Our civilization runs on oil, and you are all part of it. Stop being hypocrites.

What an utterly nonsensical approach. Just because we cannot entirely negate our environmental footprint, that's no reason whatsoever not to try to minimise it.

Imagine applying the same shoddy logic to anything else. "I'm sure none of the people outraged about war and murder would ever squash a spider!" "I'm sure nobody outraged about obesity levels would ever eat a McDonald's!"

There are degrees. Bloody obviously.

Parasondox:

inu-kun:
I wonder how many of the new hipster hippies (hippisters?) are also campaigning against Apple with its products who are encouraged to replace every few years. But hey, apparently oil is the new Hitler.

*raises hand up* I'm not a hippy hipster but I'm fully against phone companies making a new phone every year as the older models become redundant. I find phone waste a concern and phones should be set to last longer not shorter. It use to be every 24 months and now every 12 month. I fear it will be cut in half again.

Also, is "Fascism/Fasict" the new overused, not fully understand the meaning of, buzzword now?

Same here. Fuck apple. Fuck that planned obsolescence bullshit. Why are the left somehow attached to this crap now?

Xsjadoblayde:

Parasondox:

inu-kun:
I wonder how many of the new hipster hippies (hippisters?) are also campaigning against Apple with its products who are encouraged to replace every few years. But hey, apparently oil is the new Hitler.

*raises hand up* I'm not a hippy hipster but I'm fully against phone companies making a new phone every year as the older models become redundant. I find phone waste a concern and phones should be set to last longer not shorter. It use to be every 24 months and now every 12 month. I fear it will be cut in half again.

Also, is "Fascism/Fasict" the new overused, not fully understand the meaning of, buzzword now?

Same here. Fuck apple. Fuck that planned obsolescence bullshit. Why are the left somehow attached to this crap now?

Didn't the pipeline go through the water supply of local native groups. I believe that was the reason why people protested for months

CyanCat47:

Xsjadoblayde:

Parasondox:

*raises hand up* I'm not a hippy hipster but I'm fully against phone companies making a new phone every year as the older models become redundant. I find phone waste a concern and phones should be set to last longer not shorter. It use to be every 24 months and now every 12 month. I fear it will be cut in half again.

Also, is "Fascism/Fasict" the new overused, not fully understand the meaning of, buzzword now?

Same here. Fuck apple. Fuck that planned obsolescence bullshit. Why are the left somehow attached to this crap now?

Didn't the pipeline go through the water supply of local native groups. I believe that was the reason why people protested for months

Yes, but let's not humanise this, for crying out loud, people might start caring for once. Not a profitable outcome,!

Xsjadoblayde:

Parasondox:

inu-kun:
I wonder how many of the new hipster hippies (hippisters?) are also campaigning against Apple with its products who are encouraged to replace every few years. But hey, apparently oil is the new Hitler.

*raises hand up* I'm not a hippy hipster but I'm fully against phone companies making a new phone every year as the older models become redundant. I find phone waste a concern and phones should be set to last longer not shorter. It use to be every 24 months and now every 12 month. I fear it will be cut in half again.

Also, is "Fascism/Fasict" the new overused, not fully understand the meaning of, buzzword now?

Same here. Fuck apple. Fuck that planned obsolescence bullshit. Why are the left somehow attached to this crap now?

The short answer is Occupy Wall Street.

Also "fascism" isn't so much the "new" incorrectly used buzzword as it is the old one. It just cycles in and out of popularity depending on whether it's the Democrats' turn to run the federal government or to obstruct it.

Silvanus:

one squirrel:
I am sure none of the people who are so outraged about this minor incident are supporting this "fascism" by never using anything that is made out of plastic and always picking up their groceries at the farm via bycicle.

Our civilization runs on oil, and you are all part of it. Stop being hypocrites.

What an utterly nonsensical approach. Just because we cannot entirely negate our environmental footprint, that's no reason whatsoever not to try to minimise it.

Imagine applying the same shoddy logic to anything else. "I'm sure none of the people outraged about war and murder would ever squash a spider!" "I'm sure nobody outraged about obesity levels would ever eat a McDonald's!"

There are degrees. Bloody obviously.

84 gallons out of 470000 barrels/day are 5.7 ppm or 0,00057%. If someone thinks that is some outragous failure or gross negligence, then they better hold themselves to the same unreasonable standards.

Every technical device has a small chance of failure and will impact the environment in one way or the other. If one cannot accept that, then they should probably not be reaping the benefits of technology, or even better, come up with something that is 100% fail-safe. Less finger-pointing and moral grandstanding, off to the plotting board and show that it can be done better!

CyanCat47:

Xsjadoblayde:

Parasondox:

*raises hand up* I'm not a hippy hipster but I'm fully against phone companies making a new phone every year as the older models become redundant. I find phone waste a concern and phones should be set to last longer not shorter. It use to be every 24 months and now every 12 month. I fear it will be cut in half again.

Also, is "Fascism/Fasict" the new overused, not fully understand the meaning of, buzzword now?

Same here. Fuck apple. Fuck that planned obsolescence bullshit. Why are the left somehow attached to this crap now?

Didn't the pipeline go through the water supply of local native groups. I believe that was the reason why people protested for months

Well, that is one reason. There are groups that are simply against the very existence of the pipeline itself, even if it was nowhere near water supplies or reservations. Environmentalists, for example, want the whole project shut down to prevent the tar sands in canada from being utilized. If you shut down all means of transportation, you make the resource essentially useless. People also oppose it on religious grounds.

looking at the map, it is kinda wierd how they go West, make a U-turn and go back east (when the final destination is to the southeast of the starting point). If they went southeast from Stanley, they would avoid water supplies and reservations. There must be a reason as to why they went in a seemingly more difficult direction (mountains? bad terrain?)

Gethsemani:

Thaluikhain:

Catnip1024:
"Fascism won". "Fascism won"?

Last time I checked, fascism wasn't really heavily invested in the use and exploitation of fossil fuels.

Actually, a big part of Hitler's view of Eastern Europe was based around fossil fuels. The analogy isn't great, but not as bad as it might seem.

Allow me to nitpick here, since I just came off a reading of Wages of Destruction: The Making and Breaking of the Nazi Economy. The first thing we must understand is that Hitler was obsessed with Autarky, the idea that Germany should not have to rely on any imports for its' vital strategic production (food, weapons, building materials etc.). Hitler's plan for Eastern Europe, essentially the Soviet Union west of the Ural mountains, was to kill everyone living there to lay claim to its' resources for Germany. It was a plan not just to get the oil fields of the Caucasus or the mines around the Don. At its' very core was the understanding that the German agricultural system was pushed to the limits of what it could produce in the 30's and yet it still couldn't sustain a reliable level of production for domestic needs, forcing Germany to rely heavily on food imports.

The most important part of the Soviet Union in Hitler's view prior to the war was not the oil fields in the Caucasus, it was the fertile agricultural lands of Belarus and Ukraine. It was that land that Hitler intended to seize, commit genocide on its' inhabitants and then have German farmers move in to get large farms of fertile soil, which would ensure the German food supply. the Nazis always intended for Germany to rely on synthetic oil instead of natural oil, which is reflected in the massive investments they did into synthetic oil and rubber production. It was first when they realized that Barbarossa had failed and that the USSR wouldn't come crumbling down like a rotten house in early 1942, that the Nazis also began planning to secure Soviet oilfields to satisfy their short time war needs.

This is all a long winded way of saying that no, the analogy doesn't hold up. Nazism was pre-occupied with farming land in its' expansion plans (reflected in the "Blut und Boden"-slogan, Blood and Land), not fossil fuels which they intended to synthesize instead.

Wasn't it having Slavs be a "slave race"? I mean, genocide will likely happen regardless but if I recall extinction was mainly for Jews, Gays, Gypsies and the disabled.

Ryotknife:

looking at the map, it is kinda wierd how they go West, make a U-turn and go back east (when the final destination is to the southeast of the starting point). If they went southeast from Stanley, they would avoid water supplies and reservations. There must be a reason as to why they went in a seemingly more difficult direction (mountains? bad terrain?)

It would have endangered white people's water supply, specifically the white people in Bismarck, North Dakota. So they went with endangering the tribes water supply in disputed territory.

altnameJag:

Ryotknife:

looking at the map, it is kinda wierd how they go West, make a U-turn and go back east (when the final destination is to the southeast of the starting point). If they went southeast from Stanley, they would avoid water supplies and reservations. There must be a reason as to why they went in a seemingly more difficult direction (mountains? bad terrain?)

It would have endangered white people's water supply, specifically the white people in Bismarck, North Dakota. So they went with endangering the tribes water supply in disputed territory.

right, i know that, but why didnt they go southeast? Bismark is only a stone's throw from where they rerouted on the map, why didnt they go farther east instead of going west?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37863955

There is a large swath of land to the southeast (which is in the direction they need to go anyways) with seemingly no conflicts with regards to reservations or water supplies. Basically, why didnt they go down central dakota? Honestly, i dont know much about the topography of the Dakotas so there might be a valid reason.

inu-kun:

Adam Jensen:

Yes, fascism. The land that legally belongs to a native tribe was taken by force by the government and given to a fossil fuel corporation. They didn't want to build the pipeline close to a wealthy neighborhood even though they could have. No, they decided that because they're powerful, they can take what they want by force.

That and what was written in the previous post is not Fascism in any way, unless Fascism is defined as "a political system I don't like when I don't win".

bastardofmelbourne:

Adam Jensen:
Yes, fascism. The land that legally belongs to a native tribe was taken by force by the government and given to a fossil fuel corporation. They didn't want to build the pipeline close to a wealthy neighborhood even though they could have. No, they decided that because they're powerful, they can take what they want by force.

Look, speaking as an Australian, none of what you described is strictly speaking incompatible with democracy. Both Australia and the US have a long and sordid history of nicking land from its original inhabitants so they can mine it or farm it or build a pipeline on it.

It's disgraceful, but it's not fascism. It's just neo-colonialism.

Edit: "Just" neo-colonialism. What a weird sentence.

I've read some horror stories about a ton of corruption in Indian reservation, mismanagement of funds and a lot of crimes, I think at this point just having the USA reintegrate the Indian reservations can only be beneficial.

This here is terribly wrong. The reality is the US government never stopped controlling the reservations in the first place and the US government is who is the root cause of the problems. The Bureau of Indian Affairs ( BIA) has always controlled the reservations. The BIA put the mafia, yes the actual mafia, in control over policing the reservations and the Church in charge of force assimilating them. The calls to say " look they have now failed and should be destroyed" is from the same people who caused the problems in the first place.

The " horror" stories are due to what the US government has done to the reservations in order to force the people to flee them. For example, At the Christian school the US government paid for and forced us to attend to ensure our forced assimilation, (what I mean by " forced" is actually send government sanctioned Mafia to their homes and remove the children by force and take the children to the school in handcuffs when they felt it was a appropriate and tied us to chairs so we could not run away) where they beat and raped hundreds of people. Then they attempt to claim " look at that atrocity" on the reservations when the US government was the one responsible for it happening in the first place. It is promoting falsehoods and blaming the wrong people to claim the people are responsible for this when the US government are who put those people in control of the reservations in the first place.

They literally went as far as to kidnap children, indoctrinate them and bring them back and tell the people they are in charge of you is how messed up this really is. The US government's plan the entire time was to force assimilate the people through the brutality of the mob and " salvation" of the church and to make all those who did not comply to be punished and suffer greatly. This has never changed. The lie that is " tribal control" is actually the mafia and kidnapped indoctrinated members being able to assert their authority over everyone else rather than the tribes themselves actually having control over what happens to them. It is false, they never actually have had control, it is just for the sake of appearance, but far from reality.

https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/news/opinions/the-reign-of-the-bia-montana-mafia-needs-to-be-over/
https://www.amazon.com/Wampum-Inattentive-Congress-Invented-Gambling/dp/1468309935
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stephanie-woodard/south-dakota-catholic-sex-abuse_b_850102.html
https://www.ncronline.org/news/peace-justice/boarding-schools-black-hole-native-american-history
http://www.amnestyusa.org/node/87342
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/25/jesuits-pay-record-166-1-million-in-child-abuse-case/

The federal government is the ONLY one who can fully police the reservations as it is and are the ones responsible for prosecuting the crimes. The US federal Government is directly responsible for allowing criminal gangs and foreign cartels can come in and run rampant on reservations because they are the only ones legally who can stop them. The US mafia controlled "tribal police" are not even legally able to prosecute non tribe members, they are only there to bully tribal members, not help tribal members and can do nothing and will do nothing about the majority of what actually happens there.

http://www.tribal-institute.org/lists/jurisdiction.htm
https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/02/on-indian-land-criminals-can-get-away-with-almost-anything/273391/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/quora/if-you-commit-a-crime-can_b_1507190.html
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/native-american-women-are-rape-targets-because-of-a-legislative-loophole-511

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/21/us/on-indian-reservations-higher-crime-and-fewer-prosecutions.html

People need to fully understand:
The US government controls the policing of the Indian reservations and are the ONLY ones legally allowed to prosecute people for the majority of the crimes being committed there. Native Americans are legally prevented from policing their reservations and the US appointed Tribal police are just mafia they put in control that really do not have much power to do anything but harass and abuse tribal members. The US government is ALSO still responsible for the tribal police as well. It is a mistake to blame the tribe for the policing of reservation as that is under the control of the US government.

Ryotknife:

There is a large swath of land to the southeast (which is in the direction they need to go anyways) with seemingly no conflicts with regards to reservations or water supplies. Basically, why didnt they go down central dakota? Honestly, i dont know much about the topography of the Dakotas so there might be a valid reason.

After poking back and forth across several types of maps, it looks like the issue is the Red River watershed. A pipeline that went around Lake Sakakawea/Audubon to the north would run perilously close to that boundary. Since the Red River flows north into Canada, my bet is that the Canadians either vetoed that plan or else the plan was never put forth for fear of veto. It's one thing to cross the Missouri and anger a Native American tribe. It's another thing to cross the Sheyenne and anger a sovereign state.

Native American, not Indian. A few of you have been saying Indian, but they are not from India.

Veylon:

Ryotknife:

There is a large swath of land to the southeast (which is in the direction they need to go anyways) with seemingly no conflicts with regards to reservations or water supplies. Basically, why didnt they go down central dakota? Honestly, i dont know much about the topography of the Dakotas so there might be a valid reason.

After poking back and forth across several types of maps, it looks like the issue is the Red River watershed. A pipeline that went around Lake Sakakawea/Audubon to the north would run perilously close to that boundary. Since the Red River flows north into Canada, my bet is that the Canadians either vetoed that plan or else the plan was never put forth for fear of veto. It's one thing to cross the Missouri and anger a Native American tribe. It's another thing to cross the Sheyenne and anger a sovereign state.

So basically there is no way to build this pipeline without going through someone's backyard. Also, this is the first river ive heard of that flows from the US to Canada but a quick google search confirms it. It is usually the other way around. Also, it IS the canadian's tar sand we are trying to transport with this pipe.

Ryotknife:
So basically there is no way to build this pipeline without going through someone's backyard. Also, this is the first river ive heard of that flows from the US to Canada but a quick google search confirms it. It is usually the other way around. Also, it IS the canadian's tar sand we are trying to transport with this pipe.

This isn't even the first time: the Dakota Access is the third pipeline to go across the Missouri just north of Cannonball.

The nature of infrastructure is that everyone wants cheap products and convenient services but nobody wants to see or experience the physical structures that make them possible. Cell phone towers and windmills are ugly, solar panels require heavy mining and nasty chemicals, and pipelines leak oil. The Canadians really aren't any different here: they'd love to cash in on the tar sands, but they'll be damned before they let any of that black gold they just sold come flowing back across the border.

Saelune:
Native American, not Indian. A few of you have been saying Indian, but they are not from India.

While my Tribe does not recognize being called "Indian" as acceptable some Native Americans actually still do so it is complicated, even though it has been shown that Native Americans continued being called Indian at all was due to racism in the first place. Even the Government organizations that oversee Native American Reservations are still called things like " Bureau of Indian affairs" and I see that not changing for the foreseeable future.

Veylon:

Ryotknife:
So basically there is no way to build this pipeline without going through someone's backyard. Also, this is the first river ive heard of that flows from the US to Canada but a quick google search confirms it. It is usually the other way around. Also, it IS the canadian's tar sand we are trying to transport with this pipe.

This isn't even the first time: the Dakota Access is the third pipeline to go across the Missouri just north of Cannonball.

The nature of infrastructure is that everyone wants cheap products and convenient services but nobody wants to see or experience the physical structures that make them possible. Cell phone towers and windmills are ugly, solar panels require heavy mining and nasty chemicals, and pipelines leak oil. The Canadians really aren't any different here: they'd love to cash in on the tar sands, but they'll be damned before they let any of that black gold they just sold come flowing back across the border.

Not exactly everyone.The tribes impacted by this are not really benefiting from the products being produced as well. Maybe they should only run pipelines through peoples yards who actually use their products? If the people using the products were the only ones being damaged by the pollution they are creating they would be more careful to produce less pollution.
The people they are polluting and abusing are already suffering greatly due to their treatment from the US federal government.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/us-life-expectancy-rankings_us_5911db5be4b050bdca5fa519
https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/news/planned-oil-pipeline-must-cross-pine-ridges-water-delivery-system/

Lil devils x:

Saelune:
Native American, not Indian. A few of you have been saying Indian, but they are not from India.

While my Tribe does not recognize being called "Indian" as acceptable some Native Americans actually still do so it is complicated, even though it has been shown that Native Americans continued being called Indian at all was due to racism in the first place. Even the Government organizations that oversee Native American Reservations are still called things like " Bureau of Indian affairs" and I see that not changing for the foreseeable future.

I'd imagine it is more out of exhaustion or mere normalization. I know back when calling everything "gay" was popular, it always bothered me, but it got tiring to complain about it every time.

Though anyone who says "Native Indian" when referring to Native Americans...like, really?

Saelune:

Lil devils x:

Saelune:
Native American, not Indian. A few of you have been saying Indian, but they are not from India.

While my Tribe does not recognize being called "Indian" as acceptable some Native Americans actually still do so it is complicated, even though it has been shown that Native Americans continued being called Indian at all was due to racism in the first place. Even the Government organizations that oversee Native American Reservations are still called things like " Bureau of Indian affairs" and I see that not changing for the foreseeable future.

I'd imagine it is more out of exhaustion or mere normalization. I know back when calling everything "gay" was popular, it always bothered me, but it got tiring to complain about it every time.

Though anyone who says "Native Indian" when referring to Native Americans...like, really?

Usually the ones who say that refuse to call them Americans because they see the " European Immigrants" as being " Native Americans" instead of the actual native people to the continent. Some of them actually tell Native Americans to " go back to your country because this country belongs to Americans!!" not understanding that they were here first. Since Trump, his wall and his propaganda on immigration it has been the worst than I have ever seen in my lifetime. Even in much of the racism of the past, they at least understood that Native Americans were here first, now that seems to have been lost in this attack on non white people living in the US. Ironically, a Canadian born Blonde haired, blue eyed illegal immigrant who has been committing welfare fraud for the past 15 years who recently married a good ol boy was seen planting a Trump sign in her yard last year. Too funny how that works. ( I actually know her status since she is actually my brother's ex wife. She should have been deported 15 years ago, but they look the other way here when you are white enough.)

This is unsurprising though Trumps own wife should have had her citizenship revoked under his immigration terms due to violating her visa in the past, but that is irrelevant because she is white.

https://apnews.com/37dc7aef0ce44077930b7436be7bfd0d

inu-kun:

Wasn't it having Slavs be a "slave race"? I mean, genocide will likely happen regardless but if I recall extinction was mainly for Jews, Gays, Gypsies and the disabled.

This is off-topic, but I'll roll. Some slavs were meant to be serfs that worked the large farms the German farmers would receive, but most slavs, both Poles and citizens of the Soviet Union, were targeted for death. Generalplan Ost made this abundantly clear, where the ideas to kill off Soviet citizens ranged from forced labor to starvation to outright killings. The Einsatzgruppen that trailed the frontline during and after Operation Barbarossa also highlights this. While they went after Jews first and foremost, they had no qualms about killing slavs too, especially not slavs that weren't directly involved in farming and thus was an important asset to provide Germany with the food it so desperately needed.

The Holocaust overshadows Generalplan Ost in terms of inhumanity and cruelty, but the fact that somewhere around 7-20 million Soviet civilians died during WW2, most of the at the hands of the Wehrmacht or SS should highlight the sheer genocidal intent of the Nazi regime.

one squirrel:
84 gallons out of 470000 barrels/day are 5.7 ppm or 0,00057%. If someone thinks that is some outragous failure or gross negligence, then they better hold themselves to the same unreasonable standards.

Every technical device has a small chance of failure and will impact the environment in one way or the other. If one cannot accept that, then they should probably not be reaping the benefits of technology, or even better, come up with something that is 100% fail-safe. Less finger-pointing and moral grandstanding, off to the plotting board and show that it can be done better!

84 gallons is a tiny amount relative to the whole, yes. It is also more than enough to cause irreparable damage to water sources, ecosystems, and biomes. Every device has a chance of failure, but it would seem that those in charge have accepted an unreasonably high chance of failure if this happens within one week.

The damage would be obscene if the current rate were continued.

And, oddly enough, we've been able to "reap the benefits" of oil without this pipeline up until now. This pipeline, and the route it takes, have not proven unavoidably important for us to "reap the benefits", so one wonders why that association is being drawn now.

Plus, as has been pointed out, the tribes whose land is affected by this are not really reaping the benefits. The people in Bismarck might be, but the company has chosen to avoid the town in favour of going through tribal land. I wonder why?

Silvanus:

one squirrel:
84 gallons out of 470000 barrels/day are 5.7 ppm or 0,00057%. If someone thinks that is some outragous failure or gross negligence, then they better hold themselves to the same unreasonable standards.

Every technical device has a small chance of failure and will impact the environment in one way or the other. If one cannot accept that, then they should probably not be reaping the benefits of technology, or even better, come up with something that is 100% fail-safe. Less finger-pointing and moral grandstanding, off to the plotting board and show that it can be done better!

84 gallons is a tiny amount relative to the whole, yes. It is also more than enough to cause irreparable damage to water sources, ecosystems, and biomes. Every device has a chance of failure, but it would seem that those in charge have accepted an unreasonably high chance of failure if this happens within one week.

The damage would be obscene if the current rate were continued.

And, oddly enough, we've been able to "reap the benefits" of oil without this pipeline up until now. This pipeline, and the route it takes, have not proven unavoidably important for us to "reap the benefits", so one wonders why that association is being drawn now.

Plus, as has been pointed out, the tribes whose land is affected by this are not really reaping the benefits. The people in Bismarck might be, but the company has chosen to avoid the town in favour of going through tribal land. I wonder why?

It's literally the starting phase with checking things out. By that logic there shouldn't be planes because the very first models crashed after couple of meters.

And the benefits will be for using other stuff to pass through railways which will likely help the area's economy. Which is probably important for people there.

Parasondox:
Also, is "Fascism/Fasict" the new overused, not fully understand the meaning of, buzzword now?

The new buzzword? Buddy, fascism is the original buzzword.

inu-kun:
Snip

People who are not using logic are not allowed to invoke 'logic' on others. Early test flights do not an environmental disaster make. It is not a parallel reasoning. If a team of engineers can't stop a fucking PIPE from leaking after a business decides to put it in the wrong place, it's incompetence with no excuse, all around, full stop.

Silvanus:
84 gallons is a tiny amount relative to the whole, yes. It is also more than enough to cause irreparable damage to water sources, ecosystems, and biomes. Every device has a chance of failure, but it would seem that those in charge have accepted an unreasonably high chance of failure if this happens within one week.

Quick point - the original article said this was a leak on a worksite where they pump the oil into whatever. That's a far cry from some leaky pipe in the middle of a well-preserved ecosystem. If they are honest about the fact that it was all contained, there will be virtually no damage.

Also, bear in mind the bathtub curve, where things have a higher failure rate when you first start using them because you are working out the flaws.

Final point on the nature of statistics - just because something happens in the first week does not mean it will happen every week. It could be a one in a million occurrence, and you are just unlucky. Come back when it's a regular thing.

FalloutJack:

inu-kun:
Snip

People who are not using logic are not allowed to invoke 'logic' on others. Early test flights do not an environmental disaster make. It is not a parallel reasoning. If a team of engineers can't stop a fucking PIPE from leaking after a business decides to put it in the wrong place, it's incompetence with no excuse, all around, full stop.

But it was literally the act of filling up the pipe, imperfections are bound to happen and this it the time to find them. If after the pipe is used in full capacity there's a leak then going against it would have a point.

Lil devils x:
Not exactly everyone.The tribes impacted by this are not really benefiting from the products being produced as well. Maybe they should only run pipelines through peoples yards who actually use their products? If the people using the products were the only ones being damaged by the pollution they are creating they would be more careful to produce less pollution.
The people they are polluting and abusing are already suffering greatly due to their treatment from the US federal government.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/us-life-expectancy-rankings_us_5911db5be4b050bdca5fa519
https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/news/planned-oil-pipeline-must-cross-pine-ridges-water-delivery-system/

No argument from me there. Indian Reservations were and are a terrible idea. The tribes should either have been left alone as sovereign states or integrated as full citizens. Either way, they should've had clear title to their land.

In addition, some kind of cap-and-trade solution for pollution would help a great deal. You can bet that companies would be a lot more careful if they knew that they'd have to suddenly buy a zillion pollution credits from one of their more environmentally-conscious rivals if one of their pipes burst. They may not care about people's health but they do care about their bottom lines.

Veylon:

Lil devils x:
Not exactly everyone.The tribes impacted by this are not really benefiting from the products being produced as well. Maybe they should only run pipelines through peoples yards who actually use their products? If the people using the products were the only ones being damaged by the pollution they are creating they would be more careful to produce less pollution.
The people they are polluting and abusing are already suffering greatly due to their treatment from the US federal government.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/us-life-expectancy-rankings_us_5911db5be4b050bdca5fa519
https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/news/planned-oil-pipeline-must-cross-pine-ridges-water-delivery-system/

No argument from me there. Indian Reservations were and are a terrible idea. The tribes should either have been left alone as sovereign states or integrated as full citizens. Either way, they should've had clear title to their land.

But then rich white people wouldn't have been able to steal the good land! Jesus, man, how could you even suggest such a non-starter of an idea. That money isn't just going to make itself!

Veylon:
In addition, some kind of cap-and-trade solution for pollution would help a great deal. You can bet that companies would be a lot more careful if they knew that they'd have to suddenly buy a zillion pollution credits from one of their more environmentally-conscious rivals if one of their pipes burst. They may not care about people's health but they do care about their bottom lines.

Yes.

bastardofmelbourne:

Parasondox:
Also, is "Fascism/Fasict" the new overused, not fully understand the meaning of, buzzword now?

The new buzzword? Buddy, fascism is the original buzzword.

Ahh, so it's making a come back? I see.

Looks like something that should be investigated to see how it happened, what could have been done to prevent it if anything, and then develop/reinforce measures to identify and contain potential future problems.

inu-kun:

FalloutJack:

inu-kun:
Snip

People who are not using logic are not allowed to invoke 'logic' on others. Early test flights do not an environmental disaster make. It is not a parallel reasoning. If a team of engineers can't stop a fucking PIPE from leaking after a business decides to put it in the wrong place, it's incompetence with no excuse, all around, full stop.

But it was literally the act of filling up the pipe, imperfections are bound to happen and this it the time to find them. If after the pipe is used in full capacity there's a leak then going against it would have a point.

You do know there's ways to check if a pipe is leaking before you pump your precious resource through it, right?

FalloutJack:

inu-kun:

FalloutJack:

People who are not using logic are not allowed to invoke 'logic' on others. Early test flights do not an environmental disaster make. It is not a parallel reasoning. If a team of engineers can't stop a fucking PIPE from leaking after a business decides to put it in the wrong place, it's incompetence with no excuse, all around, full stop.

But it was literally the act of filling up the pipe, imperfections are bound to happen and this it the time to find them. If after the pipe is used in full capacity there's a leak then going against it would have a point.

You do know there's ways to check if a pipe is leaking before you pump your precious resource through it, right?

The only check is letting something flow in it beforehand. Maybe you can let an alternative resource run through it but you'll need a fuckton of it to check it handles the pressure (and will need to have the same liquid type as oil). Finally it might pollute the oil if it is used.

inu-kun:

FalloutJack:

inu-kun:

But it was literally the act of filling up the pipe, imperfections are bound to happen and this it the time to find them. If after the pipe is used in full capacity there's a leak then going against it would have a point.

You do know there's ways to check if a pipe is leaking before you pump your precious resource through it, right?

The only check is letting something flow in it beforehand. Maybe you can let an alternative resource run through it but you'll need a fuckton of it to check it handles the pressure (and will need to have the same liquid type as oil). Finally it might pollute the oil if it is used.

"pollute the oil"?...Pollute the oil!? POLLUTE THE OIL!?!?!?!?!

Cause fuck drinking water, right?

Saelune:

inu-kun:

FalloutJack:

You do know there's ways to check if a pipe is leaking before you pump your precious resource through it, right?

The only check is letting something flow in it beforehand. Maybe you can let an alternative resource run through it but you'll need a fuckton of it to check it handles the pressure (and will need to have the same liquid type as oil). Finally it might pollute the oil if it is used.

"pollute the oil"?...Pollute the oil!? POLLUTE THE OIL!?!?!?!?!

Cause fuck drinking water, right?

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/pollute
"to make foul or unclean"

inu-kun:
The only check is letting something flow in it beforehand. Maybe you can let an alternative resource run through it but you'll need a fuckton of it to check it handles the pressure (and will need to have the same liquid type as oil). Finally it might pollute the oil if it is used.

Depends on how accurately you want to test it, you could use water (doesn't have to be potable). Not the same as oil, of course.

There are some high tech things you can try, IIRC one method was a machine containing something mildly radioactive moving down the inside of the pipe and see if radiation can be detected outside the pipe.

Again, you might not catch all potential problems, but there are issues you can detect that way.

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