Isn't Trump already impeachable?

So I was thinking about Trump supporter's common defense of Trump - that he hasn't done anything impeachable yet and Democrats are just salty. While my knowledge of law is shaky, last time I checked - has Trump not already committed or been in the processing of committing three significant crimes that could easily be grounds for impeachment?

And more specifically, he has performed them in such a way that they can't be defended - they have been performed openly in public, brazenly and even celebrated by the President himself in public.

They are;

1: Espionage against the United States and/or a citizen thereof

Specifically, aiding/abetting/encouraging espionage against the US and/or a citizen thereof. Thanks to his comments on the campaign trail, Trump encouraged Russia it is "state" actors to engage in espionage against a US target and citizen, including possibly compromising US intel and documents.

2: Embezzlement

As Trump has not divested himself of his business and in fact remains the de facto head, CEO and primary owner/operator of the Trump name and Trump businesses AND has installed several people responsible for running his organizations into his government...is Trump not engaging in embezzlement every single day, and every time he visits one of his businesses?

Every day (well, month technically) the US government is forced to provide a check straight into Trump's wallet for the protection of his family, who refuse to leave their home in NYC and instead stay in Trump Towers and charge the US Military, Secret Service etc. rent in order to use rooms and facilities in Trump Tower.

And every time Trump visits Mars-A-Lago et al., he essentially directly takes money from the US government and gives it to himself because he still owns and operates these businesses and profits from them.

3: Witness Intimidation

As I noted in my previous thread - last week Trump publicly threatened ex-Director Comey with retaliation if "leaks" occurred or he talked to the press.

This is probably the most straightforward one; by legal definition, Trump engaged in intimidation against a US citizen and a potential witness.

Intimidation means to make fearful or to put into fear. Generally, proof of actual fear is not required in order to establish intimidation. It may be inferred from conduct, words, or circumstances reasonably calculated to produce fear.

Intimidation of witnesses or victims happens when a person, with the intent to or with the knowledge that his/her conduct will obstruct, impede, impair, prevent or interfere with the administration of criminal justice, intimidates or attempts to intimidate any witness or victim to:

(1) Refrain from informing or reporting to any law enforcement officer, prosecuting official or judge concerning any information, document or thing relating to the commission of a crime.

(2) Give any false or misleading information or testimony relating to the commission of any crime to any law enforcement officer, prosecuting official or judge.

(3) Withhold any testimony, information, document or thing relating to the commission of a crime from any law enforcement officer, prosecuting official or judge.

(4) Give any false or misleading information or testimony or refrain from giving any testimony, information, document or thing, relating to the commission of a crime, to an attorney representing a criminal defendant.

(5) Elude, evade or ignore any request to appear or legal process summoning him to appear to testify or supply evidence.

(6) Absent himself from any proceeding or investigation to which he has been legally summoned.

https://definitions.uslegal.com/i/intimidation

So already he has committed three things - very publicly - that are grounds for impeachment and possible dismissal. So exactly what is there to defend anymore?

The ability to impeach Trump is with Paul Ryan. We'd have better luck if his own daughter had that power than Paul "the lap dog" Ryan.

Impeachment is a political action, not a legal one. Anything is impeachable if enough legislators can be rounded up to vote the right way and nothing is impeachable if they can't.

Remember Impeachment is just a vote of no-confidence in Chancellor Valorum's leadership. Its entirely political and there is no absolute legal trigger. Nothing will force the House or the Senate to call for impeachment articles.

Now there are plenty of reasons to impeach Trump, but there is no mouse-trap type scenario where whoops, guess that was the line, impeachment time!

Yeah, impeachment rests solely under the jurisdiction and will on congress.

Which is how Clinton got impeached, but Trump is teflon.

Couldn't you also add making knowingly fraudulent and libelous claims of criminality of the ex-Prez?

I suppose Obama would actually have to press for a public condemnation in the courts for that to stick, and that's not really his thing ... but if it meant an indefensible position of a total lack of confidence that could be grounds alone to basically freeze his capacity to do harm without a mountain of contempt and scrutiny that finally liberates the GOP worrying about their seats making public speeches against Trump's name ... maybe Obama would take that opportunity to twist the knife in the wound.

altnameJag:
Yeah, impeachment rests solely under the jurisdiction and will on congress.

Which is how Clinton got impeached, but Trump is teflon.

Uh, Clinton didn't get impeached. The process was started, but it was shot down.

Only way Trump is going to be impeached before the mid terms is if the current sitting house thinks they will all get voted out if they don't. If insufficient change happens in the midterms then he's there for the long haul.

It would take some monumentally stupid things from Trump combined with severe voter outrage to move the Republican congress to oust their own man. Basically a smoking gun on collusion with Russia for instance. I personally know of at least one reasonably intelligent right wing type who believes the whole thing to be a snow job so don't count on all Republican voters getting pissed over this.

So don't expect impeachment before the midterms. And unless the Dems get a lot of seats, it will be a hard sell even after.

jklinders:
Only way Trump is going to be impeached before the mid terms is if the current sitting house thinks they will all get voted out if they don't. If insufficient change happens in the midterms then he's there for the long haul.

It would take some monumentally stupid things from Trump combined with severe voter outrage to move the Republican congress to oust their own man. Basically a smoking gun on collusion with Russia for instance. I personally know of at least one reasonably intelligent right wing type who believes the whole thing to be a snow job so don't count on all Republican voters getting pissed over this.

So don't expect impeachment before the midterms. And unless the Dems get a lot of seats, it will be a hard sell even after.

The dems have a massive amount of work to do to be able to get any seats at this point as it is. The reality is in most of the districts where they have the worst Republicans in congress (aka outright liars, passing whatever they like for profit and ignoring the best interest of their actual constituents) there really has been no viable competition offered by the dems or even republican rivals or anyone else. The candidates that have ran against them have been so weak there is not a chance in hell of actually beating them. These guys are going to town halls and lying to people, fear mongering and making people afraid to act in their own self interest with those lies. If they actually had any real viable competition that had a chance of hell of getting any votes with the given demographic, they would not be there in the first place, but the reality is we are not seeing that at all, instead only offering candidates that will never win that region which is a waste of time and money in the first place.

They really have to beat them at their own game by offering the "same guy" but actually good for the people to beat them. if they are trying to beat a good ol' christian boy, they have to offer a good ol' christian boy but I don't see them doing that, they try to go too extreme difference for the region they are trying to unthrone, and that will never be successful. They have to start slower in those places to actually make the change because those areas are not going to change otherwise. It is better to make baby steps than no steps at all.

Yes, there is already more than enough to have " grounds" for impeachment, and according to many of those part of the Nixon administration, and other republican administrations, more than what they had to impeach Nixon. Many see Trump as doing far worse than Nixon ever did. The problem of course is that as long as Republicans control congress, they are not going to do anything against him. Instead, they are going to let trump do whatever he wants so they can do whatever they want and anyone that acts against him or even speaks out against him is subject to his retribution. Trump has shown himself to be extremely vindictive and destroys the careers of anyone that opposes him so most Republicans are afraid to speak out at all, even if they do disagree due to Trumps record of sending people after those who oppose him and they are not willing to risk it. the reality is though the vast majority of republicans in office right now are so far up his asshole they could care less what he does as long as they get to loot and pillage as well.

Only those who have enough clout to withstand his attacks ( John McCain, Romney ect)have been willing to do so.

Zontar:

altnameJag:
Yeah, impeachment rests solely under the jurisdiction and will on congress.

Which is how Clinton got impeached, but Trump is teflon.

Uh, Clinton didn't get impeached. The process was started, but it was shot down.

Sigh: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Bill_Clinton

He was impeached and acquitted.

Trump has definitely done impeachment-worth offences already. Even if none of them stuck, all you'd have to do is get him under oath and let him talk for five minutes and you'd have enough material to nab him for perjury.

The problem isn't that Trump has not committed impeachable offences. It's that the GOP is a party of hypocritical lizard-men with hearts of black obsidian, and they will never impeach Trump so long as there's a chance he can deliver tax cuts for rich people.

Zontar:
Uh, Clinton didn't get impeached. The process was started, but it was shot down.

The terminology used is "unsuccessfully impeached." He was still impeached, he was just acquitted.

At this point, Trump is Burn-At-The-Stakeable. Dunno why the fuck nobody doesn't oust him. He's completely unlikeable and incapable of doing anything right. Again, nobody can tell me that the alternative was worse. Every apologist, just hush up right now. You've no defense here.

apparently he asked comey to drop the flynn investigation in feburary.. so yeah obstruction of justice

Paragon Fury:
-snip-

Well you can add another to the pile: Trump apparently asked the FBI director he fired, James Comey, back in February to end the FBI's investigation of former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn. This from a momo Comey released to the New York Times. Flynn resigned over and was being investigated for his alleged ties to Russia.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/us/politics/james-comey-trump-flynn-russia-investigation.html?_r=0

SO. YEAH. The most direct claim yet that Trump has been tampering with the investigations regarding Russia. This brings that threatening message he left to Comey to light.

My brother has a bachelor's degree in political science and a master's in public affairs, so I've been picking his brain about all this as it unfolds. He himself is a moderate Republican, but he flat out told me he didn't vote for Trump and stuff like this is exactly why. He doesn't think the house will be amenable to impeaching Trump until at least after the end of this calendar year. The first year of a congressional term is typically the most productive, due to there being fewer recesses because congresspeople aren't getting ready for midterm elections. They'll most likely see what they can get done, and if Trump's popularity takes a dive in their districts by then they'll work on throwing him under the bus.

It's legitimately frightening to me that we're only FOUR MONTHS into this shitshow and impeachment already doesn't seem like a matter of if, but a matter of when.

The only good news is that more people are in favor of impeaching Trump than those that oppose.
48% are in favor of impeachment, while 41% oppose.
Maybe if we apply enough pressure for midterms, it might happen before his first term is up.

The question may have a different answer by 2018. Lets see if the repubs like "winning" enough to damage their reputation and leave themselves ripe for loss in future elections. If they want to control the narrative they need to impeach him and then claim ti was their idea.

Yes but the GOP/Republicans already sold their souls to the devil. Unlikely anything will happen.

If someone has hopes for impeachment today is a good day. Trump going to the left for the Israeli Palestinian problem is the perfect excuse to do it.

FriendoftheFallen:
Lets see if the repubs like "winning" enough to damage their reputation

What reputation? You mean the horrible one that is so blatantly obvious that it makes our teeth hurt? From Reagan to Dubya to the latest election an all their senate-level actions in between? The only way to 'damage' their reputation is to do something GOOD.

I hope so. If not we can't trust the US for the next few years.

Dr. Thrax:
The only good news is that more people are in favor of impeaching Trump than those that oppose.
48% are in favor of impeachment, while 41% oppose.
Maybe if we apply enough pressure for midterms, it might happen before his first term is up.

More people are against Trump than for Trump? Fuck. Last time that happened, Trump became President.

Saelune:

Dr. Thrax:
The only good news is that more people are in favor of impeaching Trump than those that oppose.
48% are in favor of impeachment, while 41% oppose.
Maybe if we apply enough pressure for midterms, it might happen before his first term is up.

More people are against Trump than for Trump? Fuck. Last time that happened, Trump became President.

What's the worst that can happen? He gets elected World Super Presidente For Double Life?

bastardofmelbourne:

Saelune:

Dr. Thrax:
The only good news is that more people are in favor of impeaching Trump than those that oppose.
48% are in favor of impeachment, while 41% oppose.
Maybe if we apply enough pressure for midterms, it might happen before his first term is up.

More people are against Trump than for Trump? Fuck. Last time that happened, Trump became President.

What's the worst that can happen? He gets elected World Super Presidente For Double Life?

This is a set up for a cutaway gag.

Look, people thought it was crazy he could even be President. At this point, nothing is impossible, and thats a bad thing.

Saelune:

bastardofmelbourne:

Saelune:
More people are against Trump than for Trump? Fuck. Last time that happened, Trump became President.

What's the worst that can happen? He gets elected World Super Presidente For Double Life?

This is a set up for a cutaway gag.

Look, people thought it was crazy he could even be President. At this point, nothing is impossible, and thats a bad thing.

bad? its gotten to the point i honestly think someone is trying to created a real life version of tropico out of the usa.. but less well run.. and more racist

inu-kun:
If someone has hopes for impeachment today is a good day. Trump going to the left for the Israeli Palestinian problem is the perfect excuse to do it.

Except impeachment isn't about "the President is making policy decisions I don't like." Impeachment is about "the President is doing illegal things which are either defying the constitution or his oath of office."

Also don't put much of a stake in any of his policy decisions. It's very possible he legitimately doesn't know the difference between supporting Israel or Palestine.

Lilani:

inu-kun:
If someone has hopes for impeachment today is a good day. Trump going to the left for the Israeli Palestinian problem is the perfect excuse to do it.

Except impeachment isn't about "the President is making policy decisions I don't like." Impeachment is about "the President is doing illegal things which are either defying the constitution or his oath of office."

Also don't put much of a stake in any of his policy decisions. It's very possible he legitimately doesn't know the difference between supporting Israel or Palestine.

There are plenty of illegal acts Trump can be accused of, the problem is that as long as he is within party lines the Republicans can't go against him without risking pissing off voters. Him going against Israel can give them the excuse they need to replace him with someone agreeable.

I don't even know if impeachment is really a good idea in the long run.

There's plenty of people for whom Trump is there champion against the evil elite, they hate democrat but they don't hold much love for republican. There world view is that Trump is trying to "make America great again" but is constantly stopped by the elite who just want to make there live miserable. If he was impeached they'd be royally pissed, they'd just think the elite would have conspired against them once again. Remember that they either don't hear about everything Trump does or only hear about it in a positive light, so this would come out of nowhere for them. This could get very violent very quickly (cause obviously there also the people who buy boatload of guns).

Now remember that these people still majorly live in area where there vote as a lot more power, they would still be a tremendous power in politic. What would happen after he'd get elected? How would they react? Imagine the next guy to come around and capture there vote was just as selfish, but instead of being a bumbling fool that spill everything on twitter he was actually capable of keeping his mouth shut.

He was impeachable from day 1:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_of_Nobility_Clause
The problem is that it's on Paul ryan to draft up the articles of impeachment.

inu-kun:

Lilani:

inu-kun:
If someone has hopes for impeachment today is a good day. Trump going to the left for the Israeli Palestinian problem is the perfect excuse to do it.

Except impeachment isn't about "the President is making policy decisions I don't like." Impeachment is about "the President is doing illegal things which are either defying the constitution or his oath of office."

Also don't put much of a stake in any of his policy decisions. It's very possible he legitimately doesn't know the difference between supporting Israel or Palestine.

There are plenty of illegal acts Trump can be accused of, the problem is that as long as he is within party lines the Republicans can't go against him without risking pissing off voters. Him going against Israel can give them the excuse they need to replace him with someone agreeable.

I know all this, I just did a post about it a little further up lol.

Also, I'm afraid his stance on Israel means nothing to Republicans in regard to whether or not they'd impeach him. That is very far down on their list of priorities. First they're going to want to see how much legislation they can pass this year, and then they'll see how his numbers look at the start of next year when the midterm elections are gearing up. Then they'll decide whether or not to throw him under the bus. Whether he sides with Israel or Palestine is not going to affect that in the least. Republicans are only worried about what they think will get them re-elected in 2018, which means they're going to focus on tax reform and healthcare reform. The average American has no idea what's going on with Israel and Palestine, and so Trump's actions there will not sway the midterm elections much.

 

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