Trump revealed highly classified information to Russian foreign minister and ambassador

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 NEXT
 

McMarbles:
It amazes me that people keep trying to engage with someone who clearly has zero intention of arguing in good faith, but what do I know.

To be fair, always some merit in those sorts of engagements, so long as they're tackled with full awareness at the ninety-degree uphill slope you're facing. =P I remember spending a few weeks debating with the Flat Earth Society specifically because they relied so heavily on vague assertions, illogical generalizations and selective responses that ignore whatever part of a reply they can't poke holes in, that you have to work especially hard to keep on top of them and prevent them from dictating the narrative.

Zontar:

twistedmic:
That makes you look like a white-supremacist, misogynistic, Islamophobic hatemonger.

No, it doesn't, and the fact many on the left believe this is why blue collar workers have taken a sharp right turn and are unlikely to go back any time soon: because our economic self interest is at stake, and we have to pick between a person who's promising to protect it, and one who's calling us every name in the book while wearing a suit that costs at least a month's wage and making a salary we couldn't hope for.

Really, how anyone could see this state of politics and expect the blue collar workers of the country to do anything else then vote for Trump speaks volumes of the failure of the American education system, both the lower and higher sides of it given how many in university or with such a high level of education somehow thought active hostility towards an entire class was going to win it over instead of pushing it into the arms of the ones promising to protect them from such hostility.

Trump 2020. Worst case scenario is it all burns to the ground instead of things being made great again, and if that happens, well they say what goes around comes around don't they?

"Who cares about other people, as long as I get mine"

Blacks and women and LGBT people are Blue Collar workers too, but fuck them right?

Zontar:

twistedmic:
That makes you look like a white-supremacist, misogynistic, Islamophobic hatemonger.

No, it doesn't, and the fact many on the left believe this is why blue collar workers have taken a sharp right turn and are unlikely to go back any time soon: because our economic self interest is at stake, and we have to pick between a person who's promising to protect it, and one who's calling us every name in the book while wearing a suit that costs at least a month's wage and making a salary we couldn't hope for.

Really, how anyone could see this state of politics and expect the blue collar workers of the country to do anything else then vote for Trump speaks volumes of the failure of the American education system, both the lower and higher sides of it given how many in university or with such a high level of education somehow thought active hostility towards an entire class was going to win it over instead of pushing it into the arms of the ones promising to protect them from such hostility.

Trump 2020. Worst case scenario is it all burns to the ground instead of things being made great again, and if that happens, well they say what goes around comes around don't they?

how dumb do you have to be to belive anything trump says about helping the poor? best case scenario trump is too incompetent to help the poor or the most likely scenario he doesn't give a fuck about them. no really what idiot saw or heard trump speak and thought. "now there's a guy that's in it to help out poor people". and how the fuck does saying "hey see that guy over there that's spouting racist shit? only racists would vote for him" make people want to vote for him. there are 2 kinds of people that voted for trump. horrible people that didn't think they were going to be affected by any policies he makes and idiots too dumb too see the living peice of garbage that is now the president of the united states.
i could bring out the truckload of evidence that told people he was a piece of shit that was unqualified to be president but it doens't matter because if someone's a trump follower evidence has no effect on them.

Catnip1024:
That remains true. If you don't know who the source is, you can't accurately decide whether or not they have an agenda. Regardless of any arbitrary opinion you may have about the particular agency through which this gets reported. It could be false information, it could be misrepresented information, it could be true information the release of which was timed for particular ends. There is no way to even come to an opinion if you don't know where the information is from.

But that's not what's going on.

It's not some random guy of zero provenance phoning up a random hack with unsubstantiated gossip. A reputable journalist will either know the name of the source or have otherwise acquired reasonable assurances the source is reliable. The journalist likely also has been supplied documents or other information, even if these are not printed with the news article, or been given leads which when pursued reinforce the story.

If you know any journalists, ask them and you can hear that a substantial number of stories do the rounds long before they ever see the light of day, precisely because the decision is made that they cannot be printed until sufficient support exists.

You actually cannot just say reputation and trust are unimportant factors. If were to look at scientific publishing, for instance, this also is dependent on trust and reputation - of those conducting the science, the editorial process, and the peer reviewers. Bad peer reviewers effectively get blacklisted. An unreliable scientist may either have to provide very extensive additional proof, or be rejected out of hand.

Rational process is assessing the systems by which information comes to us. Saying something is fake just because the newspaper didn't name the source is not rational, because it is not adequately considering the verification systems of the newspaper.

Saelune:
Blacks and women and LGBT people are Blue Collar workers too, but fuck them right?

Exactly.

One thing the left used to have nailed down fairly well was the concept of solidarity - understanding that the working class is the working class no matter what their gender, sexuality, nationality, etc.

Part of what the right does is set the working class against itself, because the more that the working classes are busy fighting each other over the crumbs, the less they'll be trying to take a slice of the pie that the capitalist class are eating.

Agema:
A reputable journalist will either know the name of the source

Knowing the name of the source does not mean that the information is reliable. But I'm going to let this particular point drop, because we clearly have a difference of viewpoint.

Agema:
One thing the left used to have nailed down fairly well was the concept of solidarity - understanding that the working class is the working class no matter what their gender, sexuality, nationality, etc.

Using the left as a solid whole is inaccurate, because a loud part of the left is shooting itself in the foot by not properly understanding this. They pick battles on the grounds of colour / gender when it should be on the grounds of class. I hate the term identity politics, but it has a point behind it.

lionsprey:
how dumb do you have to be to belive anything trump says about helping the poor?

Who cares, he was the only one actually promising anything. Between a rich asshole who insults you and a rich asshole who says he's going to try and make things better, is it really a mystery to figure out which is going to win between the two for these people's votes?

Agema:

Part of what the right does is set the working class against itself, because the more that the working classes are busy fighting each other over the crumbs, the less they'll be trying to take a slice of the pie that the capitalist class are eating.

The right did nothing of the sort, the reason the left lost the blue collar worker vote is because it embraced identity politics, which was all the division that was needed even if the white vote wasn't one that the Democrats openly don't care about (since it isn't a "class" they want to fight in the interests of).

Zontar:
Snip

He was only the only one promising anything if you weren't paying attention.

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/rural-communities/

He might ignore me, so anyone else who wants to use this link, feel free.

erttheking:

Zontar:
Snip

He was only the only one promising anything if you weren't paying attention.

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/rural-communities/

Alright, the only one doing so that wasn't actively hostile towards blue collar workers that made it clear the whole thing was an act.

Or are we going to pretend the leaks that occurred during the election made it clear her public political stance was so fake if it was plastic surgery you'd think she was an alien? I mean ffs she supported the TPP, I don't care how pro-worker you pretend to be, not even a high school dropout will fall for that. Which is probably why blue collar workers didn't.

erttheking:

Zontar:
Snip

He was only the only one promising anything if you weren't paying attention.

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/rural-communities/

He might ignore me, so anyone else who wants to use this link, feel free.

By now you should know that facts don't matter, regardless of who they come from. Trump himself could admit that everything we've been saying for the past year is totally correct and alt-righters would still be jumping through hoops trying to contort it into how we're somehow wrong.

Zontar:
Snip

Funny, I could've said the same thing about Donald Trump. I knew for a fact that he wasn't going to do a single thing that he was promising to help the poor. And I didn't need a massive leak to figure that one out. Also she supported the TPP? Incorrect.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/07/politics/hillary-clinton-opposes-tpp/

Sure, she may have privately thought it was a good idea, but unlike Trump, Hillary was smart enough to not commit political suicide by fucking over her main voter base and going back on promises.

Also blue collar workers? You mean white blue collar workers. Black blue collar workers voted for her.

I'm inclined to agree with the Liberal Redneck on this one. Trump's supporters have made clear by this point that they hate more than they love. They hate feminists, people of color, non-Christians, liberals, progressives, socialists, the list goes on. They hate us more than they love their own country. They don't care how much damage Trump does to this country, as long as people like me suffer more than they do.

erttheking:
Snip

So CNN reports that she was lying about what she stated publicly before the election, and during it when she was behind closed doors with her major financial backers, and you expect me to believe them?

You may as well have posted no link at all given it's CNN.

BeetleManiac:
I'm inclined to agree with the Liberal Redneck on this one. Trump's supporters have made clear by this point that they hate more than they love. They hate feminists, people of color, non-Christians, liberals, progressives, socialists, the list goes on. They hate us more than they love their own country. They don't care how much damage Trump does to this country, as long as people like me suffer more than they do.

The fact that the American left believes this and many operate under this assumption is going to win him 2020. Can't solve the problem if you don't even acknowledge it.

Zontar:

erttheking:
Snip

So CNN reports that she was lying about what she stated publicly before the election, and during it when she was behind closed doors with her major financial backers, and you expect me to believe them?

You may as well have posted no link at all given it's CNN.

BeetleManiac:
I'm inclined to agree with the Liberal Redneck on this one. Trump's supporters have made clear by this point that they hate more than they love. They hate feminists, people of color, non-Christians, liberals, progressives, socialists, the list goes on. They hate us more than they love their own country. They don't care how much damage Trump does to this country, as long as people like me suffer more than they do.

The fact that the American left believes this and many operate under this assumption is going to win him 2020. Can't solve the problem if you don't even acknowledge it.

Yeah, if you keep voting out of spite, who do you think actually wins?

Zontar:

erttheking:
Snip

So CNN reports that she was lying about what she stated publicly before the election, and during it when she was behind closed doors with her major financial backers, and you expect me to believe them?

You may as well have posted no link at all given it's CNN.

BeetleManiac:
I'm inclined to agree with the Liberal Redneck on this one. Trump's supporters have made clear by this point that they hate more than they love. They hate feminists, people of color, non-Christians, liberals, progressives, socialists, the list goes on. They hate us more than they love their own country. They don't care how much damage Trump does to this country, as long as people like me suffer more than they do.

fact that the American left believes this and many operate under this assumption is going to win him 2020. Can't solve the problem if you don't even acknowledge it.

Because clearly people can't change their mind. I know for a fact Trump has gone back on his views on everything from the merits of the electoral college to whether or not we should be involved in Syria. But clearly it only counts when Hillary does it. Even if Trump was clearly throwing a tantrum over the electoral college because the candidate he liked didn't win. Also you might as well have said that my source doesn't count because you didn't like it. Actually disprove it or don't bother. And reply to my entire post next time please.

So it's wrong to stereotype the right but ok to stereotype the left. Gotcha. And Zontar? You have zero proof he's going to win. You just want him to. He is a failure of a president. Impeachment worthy offenses out in the open, historically low approval ratings, him actively trying to fuck over his supporters, firing whoever isn't a yes man, being a general man child, just off the top of my head. If he was a liberal, you'd be tearing him apart. Conservatives who blindly support him are proving Beetle right. He's going to lose in 2020. Assuming he makes it that far. You need to accept that. Lest you experience a rude awakening

Zontar:
The fact that the American left believes this and many operate under this assumption is going to win him 2020. Can't solve the problem if you don't even acknowledge it.

Rather than argue with you about this, let's try something else. You want to put down money on that prediction?

Zontar:

A I mean ffs she supported the TPP, I don't care how pro-worker you pretend to be, not even a high school dropout will fall for that. Which is probably why blue collar workers didn't.

So supporting an inevitable consequence of the technological advancement of our world (free trade) instead of putting your head in the sand in an attempt to pretend you can't see what's happening around the world and artificially keep low paying jobs alive is anti blue collar workers?

No what is anti blue collar workers is pretending you can stop progress (trade and automation, the latter being a much bigger threat to blue collar workers btw) and advocate for tax cuts for the already ludicrously rich like Trumpity.

What would help blue collar workers is allowing progress to do its thing and provide everyone with more and cheaper goods while taxing the rich who are hoarding all the benifits of progress in their pockets. And than use those taxes to help the blue collar workers find their way to booming sectors/jobs. And you can use a part of that to invest in healthcare, support of the elderly, nature conservation, infrastructure, law enforcement, etc. Oh look, we can use taxes to create jobs! If you do that, everyone wins, except the top 1-10%. But let's be honest it's not like having people like Donald J. Trump being stripped away from millions will make their lives a misery.

Catnip1024:

Agema:
A reputable journalist will either know the name of the source

Knowing the name of the source does not mean that the information is reliable. But I'm going to let this particular point drop, because we clearly have a difference of viewpoint.

Agema:
One thing the left used to have nailed down fairly well was the concept of solidarity - understanding that the working class is the working class no matter what their gender, sexuality, nationality, etc.

Using the left as a solid whole is inaccurate, because a loud part of the left is shooting itself in the foot by not properly understanding this. They pick battles on the grounds of colour / gender when it should be on the grounds of class. I hate the term identity politics, but it has a point behind it.

When the Right stops opposing equal rights, then identity politics will go away.

Parasondox:

Yeah, if you keep voting out of spite, who do you think actually wins?

Which is better, an asshole who hates me for existing winning while I loose, or no one winning?

Unless an alternative where I don't loose comes up, why should I care when it's all the same to me either way? Not that it matters, Trump wasn't a loss, even now I've already won more then Clinton ever could have realistically promised me, and I don't even get to vote.

erttheking:
Snip

Ert, here's something I've probably said already but should say it again now just in case I haven't or it didn't sink in: Trump accomplishing nothing is still a victory. I didn't even think he would win. The fact he won and the TPP is dead is already enough for me. Everything else moving forward is icing on the cake. The Wall? A nice layer of vanilla icing. Reasonable immigration reform? Strawberries in the mix. Term limits in the Congress? Sprinkles. I could go on, but you get the point, I already have the cake.

BeetleManiac:

So supporting an inevitable consequence of the technological advancement of our world (free trade) instead of putting your head in the sand in an attempt to pretend you can't see what's happening around the world and artificially keep low paying jobs alive is anti blue collar workers?

No what is anti blue collar workers is pretending you can stop progress (trade and automation, the latter being a much bigger threat to blue collar workers btw) and advocate for tax cuts for the already ludicrously rich like Trumpity.

No, what's anti blue collar worker is thinking that having nations which can undercut our labour costs due to the fact their economies make it viable to pay them pennies on the dollar compared to us, making it mathematically impossible to compete, putting the livelihoods of tens of millions at risk with nowhere in the economy for those people to go, making us a burden on the rest of the economy that has to now support us, that is anti blue collar worker.

Globalisation is not progress, it's not inevitable, the past 20 years outside of Europe has shown us that. African nations that are pulling themselves out of poverty are doing so by doing the exact opposite of what you're calling "inevitable", while those who move towards it are being left behind and carved up by Chinese conglomerates.

Automation is one thing, but the erosion of borders and making countries which have whole sectors of the economy that cannot possible compete with each other, that's another, and it's why globalisation has slowed down over the past decade when compared to the previous two.

What would help blue collar workers is allowing progress to do its thing and provide everyone with more and cheaper goods while taxing the rich who are hoarding all the benifits of progress in their pockets. And than use those taxes to help the blue collar workers find their way to booming sectors/jobs. And you can use a part of that to invest in healthcare, support of the elderly, nature conservation, infrastructure, law enforcement, etc. Oh look, we can use taxes to create jobs! If you do that, everyone wins, except the top 1-10%. But let's be honest it's not like having people like Donald J. Trump being stripped away from millions will make their lives a misery.

Funny thing about this is that one of the largest criticisms the left has against Reagan, Thatcher and Mulroney is the claims that this is a pipe-dream that doesn't play out in reality. Are you saying they where right all along and that the 80s right wing was what we should be emulating today? Because that's what you're advocating for right here, and last time I checked that didn't work out.

Hell remove the erosion of borders so that it can actually be done as a reasonable pace instead of a depression inducing one, and I'd actually agree with you.

Saelune:
When the Right stops opposing equal rights, then identity politics will go away.

Arguing for the advancement of a minority over a class as a whole is not equality, it is just fiddling the statistics to make it look like you have equality. Doesn't affect the class issues that remain.

Catnip1024:

Saelune:
When the Right stops opposing equal rights, then identity politics will go away.

Arguing for the advancement of a minority over a class as a whole is not equality, it is just fiddling the statistics to make it look like you have equality. Doesn't affect the class issues that remain.

Saelune:

Zontar:

twistedmic:
That makes you look like a white-supremacist, misogynistic, Islamophobic hatemonger.

No, it doesn't, and the fact many on the left believe this is why blue collar workers have taken a sharp right turn and are unlikely to go back any time soon: because our economic self interest is at stake, and we have to pick between a person who's promising to protect it, and one who's calling us every name in the book while wearing a suit that costs at least a month's wage and making a salary we couldn't hope for.

Really, how anyone could see this state of politics and expect the blue collar workers of the country to do anything else then vote for Trump speaks volumes of the failure of the American education system, both the lower and higher sides of it given how many in university or with such a high level of education somehow thought active hostility towards an entire class was going to win it over instead of pushing it into the arms of the ones promising to protect them from such hostility.

Trump 2020. Worst case scenario is it all burns to the ground instead of things being made great again, and if that happens, well they say what goes around comes around don't they?

"Who cares about other people, as long as I get mine"

Blacks and women and LGBT people are Blue Collar workers too, but fuck them right?

What I said to Zontar applies to you too.

You realize that oppressed minorites are usually...lower class. You cannot fight for the lower class while denying equal rights.

Saelune:
What I said to Zontar applies to you too.

You realize that oppressed minorites are usually...lower class. You cannot fight for the lower class while denying equal rights.

Who's denying anything? I'm asking for true equal treatment. Deal with the untouchable elites first, and then see what the issue is afterwards.

Take the UK as an example. People always look at the proportion of various minorities in various career paths. But they never look at the proportion of working class whitefolk compared to your old-boys network, public school brigade who get in via good old fashioned nepotism. Helping minorities does not get rid of the problem, dealing with it on a class level would.

EDIT - bad snipping

Zontar:
Snip.

A victory for who exactly? Not women in countries where funding for abortions got pulled. Not for federal employees that are LGBT now that their protections are now dead. Not for transgendered people since Trumo is apparently a believer in the right to discriminate. Not for blue collar workers, since Trump seems determined to take away their medical care. Not for immigrants, since Trump wants to broadcast all the crimes committed by them (not illegal immigrants, immigrants period.) Not for teachers since he wants to slash education. Not for scientists since he wants to slash their budgets. Not for environmentalists since he wants to slash the EPA. Also you still buy that bullshit about draining the swamp? You say Clinton is a liar but you still buy that? Selective attention much?

But it doesn't matter that he's arguably one of the worst presidents in US history because he killed a deal Clinton said she was against too. Must be nice. To be pro Trump when you don't have to live with the consequences of his actions. This is what Beetle was talking about. You more or less said "fuck you, got mine." All the terrible things he's doing and you just don't care. So I suggest you not complain when he has criticisms like that against conservatives, because you've done nothing to prove him wrong.

And once again you don't actually respond properly to my post. You just went off on a tangent. This is not how debating works Zontar.

Catnip1024:

Saelune:
When the Right stops opposing equal rights, then identity politics will go away.

Arguing for the advancement of a minority over a class as a whole is not equality, it is just fiddling the statistics to make it look like you have equality. Doesn't affect the class issues that remain.

. You can care about more than just one you know. And there's a funny pattern. When people talk about helping the working class it so often ignores minorities. That and there are unique issues that blacks and the LGBT community face. Solutions are not one size fits all.

erttheking:
You more or less said "fuck you, got mine."

Given how you're progressive and seem to subscribe to identity politics, forgive me if this rings hollow when it comes to my supporting the candidate who actually was objectively in my interest to do so for. Clinton cannot be rationally argued to have been the better one from where I, as a blue collar worker, am standing. She was openly hostile towards people like me, never made more then a token attempt to win us over, and behind closed doors didn't hid the fact that she was going to sell us out when she thought her monetary backers where the only ones listening.

Compare that to a man who, at the very least, pretended to care about us, who still does rallies regularly, who at least acknowledges the problems we face, you'd have to be irrational to think we'd rationalise anyone else.

And on a side note: Trump wanting to slash budgets to education isn't a negative if it's done right (like disbanding the Department of Education, which is a money hole that didn't improve anything), especially given the fact that adopting literally any other first world nation's system would bring about not only significant but downright massive cuts to education spending.

I mean Jesus, Quebec's known as the socialist province and even we don't just throw money at problems like that.

Zontar:
Snip.

Because I think blacks and LGBT people should be treated equally and I think the problems facing them should be addressed, my argument is hollow. You're gonna have to connect the dots for me on that one. Because that's pretty close to "you're a liberal, therefore you are wrong." And you also utilize identity politics, it's just that with you it's about the working class and you don't call it identity politics. Because for some reason it's ok when you do it but not when I do it. I would love to hear about how the man who wasn't able to get to the six month milestone without an investigation that will most likely end with impeachment is the more "rational" one. Because to be frank, you seem to be doing that thing where you take your opinion and say that it's objectively true, despite having nothing to back it up. Because as someone who actually has to live in the United States and has to live with the day to day garbage Trump pushes through. I find it amusing that you say it was obvious from what was going on behind closed doors that Clinton was going to sell people out, when I say it's obvious from what Trump was saying out loud that he was going to sell people out. And he is.

I'm sorry, Clinton regularly brought up issues that focused mainly on the common man quite often. Just because you don't like her, doesn't mean things like that magically didn't happen. And I'm really failing to see how she's better, considering that Trump is actively trying to pass a tax plan that is "the rich get richer the poor get poorer" incarnate. I really would like to hear how Hillary could top that without committing political suicide. All I'm getting from you is that you like Trump more because...you liked his lies better. Really? That's it? My country had to get fucked over because you liked the way Trump lied better.

It's a pity he's done nothing to prove that he's capable of doing that. Seriously, the only approach he has for things he cares about is "bigger and better." He's slashing education because he doesn't care about it. Just like he's slashing the EPA because he doesn't care about it. Compare this to when he's talking about things he cares about, like the wall and the military, and how he's going to make them grand and impressive.

Oh, and a list of things you didn't address. Trump gutting LGBT protections, cutting the EPA funding, cutting funding to abortions in other countries, Trump being pro the right to discriminate when it comes to transgendered people, Trump trying to fuck over the poor in regards to medical coverage, his deeply disturbing plan for anti-immigration propaganda, and how him draining the swamp is something he hardly seems like he's going to do. Are you going to address any of that? Or are you just going to point out that I care about black people and the LGBT community again and acts like that somehow disproves all grievances I have? Because you're still coming off with a general attitude of "fuck you, got mine," by dodging around all those points.

Agema:

One thing the left used to have nailed down fairly well was the concept of solidarity - understanding that the working class is the working class no matter what their gender, sexuality, nationality, etc.

Part of what the right does is set the working class against itself, because the more that the working classes are busy fighting each other over the crumbs, the less they'll be trying to take a slice of the pie that the capitalist class are eating.

Yeah, used to. And look at the "RACE WAR NOW!" and "#killallmen" shenanigans engaged in by "the Left" these days. Of course they are actually going to create corresponding identity politics on the receiving end as a backlash, which handily serves as a retrospective legitimization of this despicable strategy.

That's why even a corrupt, buffoonish tycoon is preferable to many over a ruthlessly efficient "Divide & Rule" machine fully backed by the reality-defining powers of the Media class, seeking to "cement" the "Progress" of institutionalizing the identitarian furies they've been fostering.

Catnip1024:

Saelune:
What I said to Zontar applies to you too.

You realize that oppressed minorites are usually...lower class. You cannot fight for the lower class while denying equal rights.

Who's denying anything? I'm asking for true equal treatment. Deal with the untouchable elites first, and then see what the issue is afterwards.

Take the UK as an example. People always look at the proportion of various minorities in various career paths. But they never look at the proportion of working class whitefolk compared to your old-boys network, public school brigade who get in via good old fashioned nepotism. Helping minorities does not get rid of the problem, dealing with it on a class level would.

EDIT - bad snipping

Too many people who claim to want to help the "working class" only care about the "white" and often "male" working class.

The trick is, stop trying to leave others out. Would be nice if every time some protection is granted to people, we would not need to keep addenduming it with "and blacks...and women...and gays...and trans too..." Like say, shitty reasons to fire a person. No one should fear being fired for anything but a poor work quality or criminal act. And yet people want to allow people to be fired for things irrelevant to the workplace.

-I- fight for the working class. All of it. Maybe you should do the same.

StatusNil:

Agema:

One thing the left used to have nailed down fairly well was the concept of solidarity - understanding that the working class is the working class no matter what their gender, sexuality, nationality, etc.

Part of what the right does is set the working class against itself, because the more that the working classes are busy fighting each other over the crumbs, the less they'll be trying to take a slice of the pie that the capitalist class are eating.

Yeah, used to. And look at the "RACE WAR NOW!" and "#killallmen" shenanigans engaged in by "the Left" these days. Of course they are actually going to create corresponding identity politics on the receiving end as a backlash, which handily serves as a retrospective legitimization of this despicable strategy.

That's why even a corrupt, buffoonish tycoon is preferable to many over a ruthlessly efficient "Divide & Rule" machine fully backed by the reality-defining powers of the Media class, seeking to "cement" the "Progress" of institutionalizing the identitarian furies they've been fostering.

Can we go by something that people actually get elected on and not just some hashtag garbage on Twitter? Who exactly got elected on the concept of promising a race war? Or that they'll kill all men?

I can't help but notice that a lot of the people who support Trump claim things about him that aren't really that true. They're just actively ignoring a massive amount of his faults and attributing things to him that he didn't actually do. Oh, and the little fact that the people who found him preferable were mostly just the people who always vote Republican, no matter what.

erttheking:

Can we go by something that people actually get elected on and not just some hashtag garbage on Twitter? Who exactly got elected on the concept of promising a race war? Or that they'll kill all men?

I can't help but notice that a lot of the people who support Trump claim things about him that aren't really that true. They're just actively ignoring a massive amount of his faults and attributing things to him that he didn't actually do. Oh, and the little fact that the people who found him preferable were mostly just the people who always vote Republican, no matter what.

You don't need to be a dog to hear the whistle. Once you accept collectivist retribution as an ultimate principle, it's just a matter of Progress. The academic vanguard is already rhetorically there, as most recently seen in the case of Tommy Curry of Texas A & M.

Oh, and how come Trump won and Romney didn't if the people who voted for him are just the ones who always vote Republican, considering that there was a loud "NeverTrump" contingent within the party itself? Inconceivable that some people are starting to get uneasy over the way self-professed "Liberals" are sleepwalking into totalitarianism based on racial mystique and specious slogans derived from a scholastic echo chamber?

StatusNil:
Once you accept collectivist retribution as an ultimate principle, it's just a matter of Progress.

Has anyone actually gotten elected on a platform of collectivist retribution, though? That's the question that was asked.

bastardofmelbourne:

StatusNil:
Once you accept collectivist retribution as an ultimate principle, it's just a matter of Progress.

Has anyone actually gotten elected on a platform of collectivist retribution, though? That's the question that was asked.

As you no doubt know, Hillary Clinton's Demagogic Party lost on a technicality.

StatusNil:

erttheking:

Can we go by something that people actually get elected on and not just some hashtag garbage on Twitter? Who exactly got elected on the concept of promising a race war? Or that they'll kill all men?

I can't help but notice that a lot of the people who support Trump claim things about him that aren't really that true. They're just actively ignoring a massive amount of his faults and attributing things to him that he didn't actually do. Oh, and the little fact that the people who found him preferable were mostly just the people who always vote Republican, no matter what.

You don't need to be a dog to hear the whistle. Once you accept collectivist retribution as an ultimate principle, it's just a matter of Progress. The academic vanguard is already rhetorically there, as most recently seen in the case of Tommy Curry of Texas A & M.

Oh, and how come Trump won and Romney didn't if the people who voted for him are just the ones who always vote Republican, considering that there was a loud "NeverTrump" contingent within the party itself? Inconceivable that some people are starting to get uneasy over the way self-professed "Liberals" are sleepwalking into totalitarianism based on racial mystique and specious slogans derived from a scholastic echo chamber?

Collectivism equals man hating and race wars? I find your logic flawed.

No. It was voter suppression and Hilary not really being that liberal. Little of it was Democrat voters thinking Trump had a good idea.

StatusNil:

Agema:

One thing the left used to have nailed down fairly well was the concept of solidarity - understanding that the working class is the working class no matter what their gender, sexuality, nationality, etc.

Part of what the right does is set the working class against itself, because the more that the working classes are busy fighting each other over the crumbs, the less they'll be trying to take a slice of the pie that the capitalist class are eating.

Yeah, used to. And look at the "RACE WAR NOW!" and "#killallmen" shenanigans engaged in by "the Left" these days. Of course they are actually going to create corresponding identity politics on the receiving end as a backlash, which handily serves as a retrospective legitimization of this despicable strategy.

That's why even a corrupt, buffoonish tycoon is preferable to many over a ruthlessly efficient "Divide & Rule" machine fully backed by the reality-defining powers of the Media class, seeking to "cement" the "Progress" of institutionalizing the identitarian furies they've been fostering.

so where is this "left" hivemind that people seem to think the left consists of. i mean if a crazy right wing person says something crazy on twitter he's just a crazy person but if someone tweets #killallmen #feminism suddenly the whole of the left wants to kill all men?

Catnip1024:
Who's denying anything? I'm asking for true equal treatment. Deal with the untouchable elites first, and then see what the issue is afterwards.

Take the UK as an example. People always look at the proportion of various minorities in various career paths. But they never look at the proportion of working class whitefolk compared to your old-boys network, public school brigade who get in via good old fashioned nepotism. Helping minorities does not get rid of the problem, dealing with it on a class level would.

That's assuming there's is a single problem, and thus a single solution.

Now, sure, the working class certainly do need help, but that's mostly (but not totally) separate to race issues.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here