Official Special Investigation Into Trump Thread

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Basement Cat:
Now the old time Republican Establishment power barons are smelling blood in the water. Following Comey's testimony Karl Rove--who was a major mover and shaker in the GOP until Mitt Romney's run for the presidency failed in 2012--appears to be sowing seeds for the removal of Donald Trump.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/337077-karl-rove-trump-lacks-the-focus-or-self-discipline-to-do-the

Taking the long view into consideration this makes perfect sense and I expect to be seeing an increasing amount of such assertions on the part of the Republican Establishment. Trump is pure poison and the GOP as a whole would greatly prefer to have a President Pence.

And Trump is likely to be their greatest means to achieve such a change of power. The man is a dimwitted egomaniac who's surrounded himself all his life with sycophants. He's his own worst enemy and after a mere 4 months in office he's burning US stability and interests left and right (pun intended).

Heck, if he continues as he has been I'll start to worry about assassins going after him. I worried about nutjobs going after Obama (racists, mostly) but fortunately he was never shot.

Trump, on the other hand, is threatening everybody. He's painting himself into a smaller and smaller corner every week. I don't want to see this nation harmed by a presidential assassination.

Nor do I want to see a failed assassination attempt that might rally support to him from the public as a matter of reflex.

The going opinion, at least around here, seems to be that Trump will buckle under pressure because he's not even a half-wit. I would definitely like to see him done in by the bloodless, toothless, badgering sharks that spinelessly went along with him, even though they had a much better standing with the first black president. That would be fine, so that when it all comes down to it, we can then deal with less something a little more sane. Unwanted, maybe still a callous piece of shit, and probably a dick...but once the first ugly domino goes, maybe it'll keep going. Fingers crossed.

The latest rumor on the block now, thanks to one of Trump's friends, is that Trump might consider firing Special Counsel Robert Mueller.

Beep boop I am URL Bot.

Now, whether or not he has the actual legal authority to fire a Special Counsel is - yet again - untested waters, he may as well just hang "I'M GUILTY" banners on the White House if he actually does go through with this.

Dr. Thrax:
The latest rumor on the block now, thanks to one of Trump's friends, is that Trump might consider firing Special Counsel Robert Mueller.

Beep boop I am URL Bot.

Now, whether or not he has the actual legal authority to fire a Special Counsel is - yet again - untested waters, he may as well just hang "I'M GUILTY" banners on the White House if he actually does go through with this.

In order to fire Mueller he has to order the Department of Justice to do it. This raises a curious number of troubles even Nixon didn't have to deal with.

The foremost of those complications being that Mueller is investigating the Russia thing and Attorney General Jeff Sessions has recused himself from that matter. He's already on thin ice from interfering with Comey's investigation by supporting Comey's being fired so it's doubtful Sessions could obey Trump without Congress--including the Republicans--blowing up.

That would leave the job of firing Mueller to Rosenstein, the man who appointed Mueller in the first place specifically because Trump interfered in the Russia investigation by firing Comey. Firing Mueller would annihilate Rosenstein's reputation so the deputy AG would likely simply refuse or resign.

Trump's an idiot who appears to be on the edge of having a nervous breakdown. The way he's behaving has my eyes widening in surprise: I figured he was dirty but now I wonder just how dirty is he?

Oh, and the icing on the cake is that Trump has zero plausible reason to fire Mueller. Even the toadies trying to justify such an act recognize that they're reaching.

If Trump fires Mueller it's likely that more than enough Republicans will cry foul and the situation will snowball into an avalanche on their side.

Naturally the Democrats are drooling at such a thought. Rightfully so, I believe. Trump's bad for this nation and the world.

hahaha trump had his first "cabinet meeting" which is apparently code for a group of people sitting around taking turns to out do each other in kissing his ass

Dr. Thrax:
Now, whether or not he has the actual legal authority to fire a Special Counsel is - yet again - untested waters, he may as well just hang "I'M GUILTY" banners on the White House if he actually does go through with this.

No, he definitely has the legal authority to do it.

Special counsels are not the same as special prosecutors. The office of special prosecutor was dissolved when the act that created it expired sometime in the 90s. To fill the hole, the Justice Department created the role of special counsel, which was a watered-down variant that did not have the authority to prosecute any misdeeds it discovered; it can only advise the DOJ as to whether such misdeeds occurred.

Because it is a DOJ protocol and not a creation of legislation, the special counsel exists solely at the DOJ's pleasure. The Attorney-General can fire the special counsel at any time for any reason. The AG in this case is Jeff Sessions, who thankfully has recused himself from the Russia investigation, being replaced by Rod Rosenstein, who apparently appointed the special counsel without really telling Trump that he was going to do it (perhaps as payback for how his recommendation was mishandled right after Comey's firing).

Therefore, Rod Rosenstein can fire Mueller at any time. Trump can fire Rod Rosenstein at any time. Trump can tell Rosenstein "fire Mueller or get fired," and Rosenstein will be stuck choosing between his reputation and his career. Trump could then fire Rosenstein, and as far as I know there's no assistant-assistant attorney-general, so either Sessions will fire Mueller or Trump will just go down the chain, Saturday-Night-Massacre style.

Should Trump fire Mueller? No. It would be an act of unmitigated insanity to think that one can quiet down the Russia scandal by firing the people investigating it. Mueller only even got appointed because Trump fired Comey, remember? Trump firing investigators arbitrarily is the reason why there's a special counsel in the first place.

For Trump to fire Mueller now would be insane, incompetent, and self-destructive. So I expect him to do it this Friday.

pookie101:
hahaha trump had his first "cabinet meeting" which is apparently code for a group of people sitting around taking turns to out do each other in kissing his ass

Chuck Schumer had fun with that one.

The "cabinet meeting" was a PR exercise. Realistically, modern cabinets do not meet in full because it's incredibly inefficient to do so, and they definitely don't do it with reporters in the room. Trump is just...ugh. Trump. He's disgusting, literally. Completely shameless self-promotion.

He also claimed he'd signed more legislation than any other President since FDR, by the way. God, that man's repulsive. I hate America so much for having elected him.

bastardofmelbourne:
I hate America so much for having elected him.

Well, according to the numbers, we didn't. A bunch of old farts ignored the numbers and voted yay. There's alot of people who are to blame, but please...don't rope us all in one group.

In other news, boss and top lawyer for the justice department, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III doesn't know what the policies are in justice department for sharing written communications with congress, and didn't think to check on that before his testimony.

We did find out however he loves spy fiction. Thanks Tom Cotton.

bastardofmelbourne:
I hate America so much for having elected him.

I understand your frustration, but this kind of thoughts are actually what got us into the current global trouble we are in now.

The "I'm displeased, so everyone vaguely associated with whatever displeased me are horrible monsters".

Not everyone who owns a gun is a mass shooter. Not every mass shooter is a white person, even though statistically they predominantly are. Not every black person is a criminal, but the police sure do arrest a lot of them. Not every Muslim is a terrorist.

And we see how that's played out politically. Trump was elected. The Golden Dawn has representation in Greece. The Philippines has Duterte. Just the simple matter of people being so frustrated at the mass, nebulous "Bad Other"... that they'll elect anyone who puts a face of what the Nebula is and say don't you see how they are hindering and harming you?

You will probably never fall into that trap. But it's easy for others to. Hell, we've see what the actuality of life is when people just blame and hate people due to mistakes. The American people went out and voted for the lesser of the two evils, Hillary. The vast open spaces where nothing is left but outdated ideals and resistance to progressive thinking voted for Trump.

Sadly, there's a lot more of those open spaces than anyone counted on.

bastardofmelbourne:
I hate America so much for having elected him.

We elected Hillary. Trump just got the job anyways.

Saelune:

bastardofmelbourne:
I hate America so much for having elected him.

We elected Hillary. Trump just got the job anyways.

The saddest thing about the whole affair is that the Founding Fathers established the Electoral College to prevent a populist from one of the political fringes conning the citizenry into becoming president.

FalloutJack:
snip

ObsidianJones:
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Saelune:
snip

Avnger:
snip

Stop it with your logic and your reasoning! I'm too busy hating you.

Grrr.

bastardofmelbourne:

FalloutJack:
snip

ObsidianJones:
snip

Saelune:
snip

Avnger:
snip

Stop it with your logic and your reasoning! I'm too busy hating you.

Grrr.

Can I quote you for future reference in threads like these? I feel it encapsulates the true meaning of some responders.

So, an update: WaPo reports - and numerous other outlets have confirmed - that Donald Trump is now officially under investigation for obstruction of justice.

The spin after Comey's congressional testimony last week was that Comey's testimony "vindicated" Trump, because he confirmed Trump's earlier statement that Donald Trump was not personally under investigation by the FBI while Comey was director.

Setting aside all the problems with even making that claim - such as the fact that even if true, this wouldn't exculpate Flynn, Sessions, Page, Kushner, or Manafort, nor would it disprove the Russian interference in the first place - it's now been contradicted completely, because while Comey wasn't directly investigating the President personally for any connections to Russia, Mueller sure as hell is now investigating the President personally for any evidence that he may have fired Comey in order to stymie the FBI's Russia investigation.

In short: the defence that Trump was not personally under investigation would have made a whole lot more sense if Trump hadn't pressured the director of the FBI to drop the investigation, then fired him, and then lied about why he fired him.

What's the downside to all this news? The AHCA is as good as law, because even if Donald Trump doesn't like the bill that gets sent to his desk - he now thinks it's "mean" - the Republicans in Congress basically have him by the balls. If he doesn't sign what they send to him, he's impeached. I mean, he could - and should! - be impeached right now; the only thing protecting him is that the Republicans in Congress aren't quite ready to dump Trump yet. If he starts giving them shit over the AHCA and threatening their already-extremely-fucking-tenuous timetable to get to tax cuts "reform,"[1] they'll just exchange glances and whisper "President Pennnnnnnce."

So, bad news, Americans; the healthcare act that would never in any sane world have been made law is going to be made law as soon as Mitch McConnell can wrangle the votes for it. One hundred percent of Americans are getting the healthcare act that only twenty percent of them approve of! Hahaha! Your system is terrible!

It's so bad!

FalloutJack:
Can I quote you for future reference in threads like these? I feel it encapsulates the true meaning of some responders.

You can quote me in any context for any reason you wish as many times as you want, as long as you buy me dinner first.

[1] Because the Republicans are using a congressional procedure called budget reconciliation in order to pass both the AHCA and the planned tax cuts "reform," and because budget reconciliation can only be done once a year, and because they'll have no hope of passing either act after 2018, they need to do the AHCA in 2017 and the tax cuts "reform" in 2018, because budget reconciliation has to be deficit-neutral and the $800 billion in cuts to healthcare that they're planning are what will reduce government spending enough for them to use reconciliation to cut "reform" taxes. *phew* All to benefit faceless rich people! Democracy! Hooray!

bastardofmelbourne:
So, an update: WaPo reports - and numerous other outlets have confirmed - that Donald Trump is now officially under investigation for obstruction of justice.

And Trump just confirmed it on Twitter because he's a flipping idiot and a defense attorney's worst nightmare.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/875701471999864833

He also conveniently leaves out the fact that he told the world that he had made the decision to fire Comey on his own BEFORE Rosenstein and Sessions entered the picture.

Exley97:
He also conveniently leaves out the fact that he told the world that he had made the decision to fire Comey on his own BEFORE Rosenstein and Sessions entered the picture.

He's already forgotten that he did it, the senile little shit.

Trumps Casinos Serving as a Vehicle for Illicit Financial Maneuvers, Working Hand-in-Glove with Russia

Patribotics made shocking revelations, which are said to be based on US intelligence community information leakage. The blog was focusing on the relation between Trump and Russia till it most probably dug out the truth.

The blog reported that the Trump's gaming entities, which were said to offer online gambling services, are in fact used as a channel for the flow of "dirty" money from Russia.

Read more: http://www.casinogamespro.com/2017/06/19/trumps-casinos-serving-vehicle-illicit-financial-maneuvers-working-hand-glove-russia

EvanReid:
Trumps Casinos Serving as a Vehicle for Illicit Financial Maneuvers, Working Hand-in-Glove with Russia

Patribotics made shocking revelations, which are said to be based on US intelligence community information leakage. The blog was focusing on the relation between Trump and Russia till it most probably dug out the truth.

The blog reported that the Trump?s gaming entities, which were said to offer online gambling services, are in fact used as a channel for the flow of ?dirty? money from Russia.

Read more: http://www.casinogamespro.com/2017/06/19/trumps-casinos-serving-vehicle-illicit-financial-maneuvers-working-hand-glove-russia

Get outta here, Mensch! Shoo! Shoo!

you guys have actually missed the most important news of all at the moment..

we now know what jared kushner sounds like: HE SPEAKS!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7Pz03NAcHI

pookie101:
you guys have actually missed the most important news of all at the moment..

we now know what jared kushner sounds like: HE SPEAKS!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7Pz03NAcHI

Didn't he chase somebody down a flight of stairs while naked and brandishing a chainsaw in some film? And he's Trump's son-in-law? And he's going to Israel presently just as they've announced building on the occupied west bank for the first time in 25 years?? I think it would be wise to keep a close eye on what particular business deals are made during this period.

Xsjadoblayde:

pookie101:
you guys have actually missed the most important news of all at the moment..

we now know what jared kushner sounds like: HE SPEAKS!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7Pz03NAcHI

Didn't he chase somebody down a flight of stairs while naked and brandishing a chainsaw in some film? And he's Trump's son-in-law? And he's going to Israel presently just as they've announced building on the occupied west bank for the first time in 25 years?? I think it would be wise to keep a close eye on what particular business deals are made during this period.

in some film? have you been hacking the trump private holiday film archives?

pookie101:

Xsjadoblayde:

pookie101:
you guys have actually missed the most important news of all at the moment..

we now know what jared kushner sounds like: HE SPEAKS!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7Pz03NAcHI

Didn't he chase somebody down a flight of stairs while naked and brandishing a chainsaw in some film? And he's Trump's son-in-law? And he's going to Israel presently just as they've announced building on the occupied west bank for the first time in 25 years?? I think it would be wise to keep a close eye on what particular business deals are made during this period.

in some film? have you been hacking the trump private holiday film archives?

Just a bit of leaked information from the Bratva to keep Trump in line.

This is a thing: President Trump isn't personally connected but his son, son-in-law, and former campaign manager Paul J. Manafort were all present at a meeting that was specifically held with the promise of Team Trump receiving dirty info on Team Clinton...from the Russians.

Young Donald Trump Jr. is truly his father's son: He doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut and because of this he tends to confirm the very things he's trying to deny.

In a statement on Sunday, Donald Trump Jr. said he had met with the Russian lawyer at the request of an acquaintance. "After pleasantries were exchanged," he said, "the woman stated that she had information that individuals connected to Russia were funding the Democratic National Committee and supporting Ms. Clinton. Her statements were vague, ambiguous and made no sense. No details or supporting information was provided or even offered. It quickly became clear that she had no meaningful information."

He said she then turned the conversation to adoption of Russian children and the Magnitsky Act, an American law that blacklists suspected Russian human rights abusers. The law so enraged President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia that he retaliated by halting American adoptions of Russian children.

"It became clear to me that this was the true agenda all along and that the claims of potentially helpful information were a pretext for the meeting," Mr. Trump said.

Read that last part again: "the claims of potentially helpful information were a pretext for the meeting."

Trump Jr. confirmed that he went into the meeting expecting to receive information from the Russian lawyer that could hurt Clinton. That is a breathtaking admission.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/09/us/politics/trump-russia-kushner-manafort.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/07/09/donald-trump-jr-s-stunningly-incriminating-statement-to-the-new-york-times/?utm_term=.a9ec75bb2b6e

As this was a Sunday event (today) I expect President Trump to make some asinine Twitter attacks within the next 24 hours. The problem is that he can't accuse his own son of spreading fake news like he does everyone else.

The one think I like about Trump Jr. is that he's as big an idiot as his father and just as good at shooting himself in the foot. :)

Basement Cat:
This is a thing: President Trump isn't personally connected but his son, son-in-law, and former campaign manager Paul J. Manafort were all present at a meeting that was specifically held with the promise of Team Trump receiving dirty info on Team Clinton...from the Russians.

Young Donald Trump Jr. is truly his father's son: He doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut and because of this he tends to confirm the very things he's trying to deny.

In a statement on Sunday, Donald Trump Jr. said he had met with the Russian lawyer at the request of an acquaintance. "After pleasantries were exchanged," he said, "the woman stated that she had information that individuals connected to Russia were funding the Democratic National Committee and supporting Ms. Clinton. Her statements were vague, ambiguous and made no sense. No details or supporting information was provided or even offered. It quickly became clear that she had no meaningful information."

He said she then turned the conversation to adoption of Russian children and the Magnitsky Act, an American law that blacklists suspected Russian human rights abusers. The law so enraged President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia that he retaliated by halting American adoptions of Russian children.

"It became clear to me that this was the true agenda all along and that the claims of potentially helpful information were a pretext for the meeting," Mr. Trump said.

Read that last part again: "the claims of potentially helpful information were a pretext for the meeting."

Trump Jr. confirmed that he went into the meeting expecting to receive information from the Russian lawyer that could hurt Clinton. That is a breathtaking admission.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/09/us/politics/trump-russia-kushner-manafort.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/07/09/donald-trump-jr-s-stunningly-incriminating-statement-to-the-new-york-times/?utm_term=.a9ec75bb2b6e

As this was a Sunday event (today) I expect President Trump to make some asinine Twitter attacks within the next 24 hours. The problem is that he can't accuse his own son of spreading fake news like he does everyone else.

The one think I like about Trump Jr. is that he's as big an idiot as his father and just as good at shooting himself in the foot. :)

Trump has done EVERYTHING to make it obvious. Like, comically so.

"Putin says he didnt do it, so thats good enough, now lets stop fighting them and be friends"...>~>

Basement Cat:
This is a thing: President Trump isn't personally connected but his son, son-in-law, and former campaign manager Paul J. Manafort were all present at a meeting that was specifically held with the promise of Team Trump receiving dirty info on Team Clinton...from the Russians.

Young Donald Trump Jr. is truly his father's son: He doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut and because of this he tends to confirm the very things he's trying to deny.

Donald Trump Jr.:
What's that? Russians? What Russians? I never met with any Russians. What's Russia? Is that like, near Sweden? No, I've never spoken to any "Russians," if this "Russia" is indeed a real place. What's that? Oh. Oh, you mean those Russians. Yeah, well, I met with those Russians, obviously, that's my job, to do that. We just had, y'know, a meeting, but we weren't talking politics. We were talking about...how much we like borscht. No politics. I mean - okay, yes, sure, we did talk about Hillary Clinton, they did mention Hillary Clinton, but not in a political way, we just talked about her hair and - sanctions? No, we didn't talk about sanctions. I mean, we did, but not sanctions sanctions, just sanctions as a general concept. Say, I love borscht, do you love borscht? You don't like borscht? Get outta here, you're fake news.

bastardofmelbourne:
So, an update: WaPo reports - and numerous other outlets have confirmed - that Donald Trump is now officially under investigation for obstruction of justice.

The spin after Comey's congressional testimony last week was that Comey's testimony "vindicated" Trump, because he confirmed Trump's earlier statement that Donald Trump was not personally under investigation by the FBI while Comey was director.

Setting aside all the problems with even making that claim - such as the fact that even if true, this wouldn't exculpate Flynn, Sessions, Page, Kushner, or Manafort, nor would it disprove the Russian interference in the first place - it's now been contradicted completely, because while Comey wasn't directly investigating the President personally for any connections to Russia, Mueller sure as hell is now investigating the President personally for any evidence that he may have fired Comey in order to stymie the FBI's Russia investigation.

In short: the defence that Trump was not personally under investigation would have made a whole lot more sense if Trump hadn't pressured the director of the FBI to drop the investigation, then fired him, and then lied about why he fired him.

What's the downside to all this news? The AHCA is as good as law, because even if Donald Trump doesn't like the bill that gets sent to his desk - he now thinks it's "mean" - the Republicans in Congress basically have him by the balls. If he doesn't sign what they send to him, he's impeached. I mean, he could - and should! - be impeached right now; the only thing protecting him is that the Republicans in Congress aren't quite ready to dump Trump yet. If he starts giving them shit over the AHCA and threatening their already-extremely-fucking-tenuous timetable to get to tax cuts "reform,"[1] they'll just exchange glances and whisper "President Pennnnnnnce."

So, bad news, Americans; the healthcare act that would never in any sane world have been made law is going to be made law as soon as Mitch McConnell can wrangle the votes for it. One hundred percent of Americans are getting the healthcare act that only twenty percent of them approve of! Hahaha! Your system is terrible!

It's so bad!

FalloutJack:
Can I quote you for future reference in threads like these? I feel it encapsulates the true meaning of some responders.

You can quote me in any context for any reason you wish as many times as you want, as long as you buy me dinner first.

with him officially under investigation for obstruction, he cannot really get away with firing rod or mueller as then they may have to move to impeach.

I am going to hold out hope they still will not be able to get the votes to pass and hopefully will lose more votes as they gain more pressure from governors and their constituents. Mitch McConnells is of little to concern for them, as he does not have any sway over them being reelected or even being able to return home. Yes, I am nervous about the healthbill, however, I am still hopeful they will mount a=enough countermeasure to make them not want to touch it. They have to be able to go home sometime and if there are protesters at their house every day, they are not going to be very comfortable there. There is no place they can really move in the US that the people will not find them. Mitch isn't going to hunt them down and make their life hell if they ignore him on the other hand.

[1] Because the Republicans are using a congressional procedure called budget reconciliation in order to pass both the AHCA and the planned tax cuts "reform," and because budget reconciliation can only be done once a year, and because they'll have no hope of passing either act after 2018, they need to do the AHCA in 2017 and the tax cuts "reform" in 2018, because budget reconciliation has to be deficit-neutral and the $800 billion in cuts to healthcare that they're planning are what will reduce government spending enough for them to use reconciliation to cut "reform" taxes. *phew* All to benefit faceless rich people! Democracy! Hooray!

Basement Cat:
This is a thing: President Trump isn't personally connected but his son, son-in-law, and former campaign manager Paul J. Manafort were all present at a meeting that was specifically held with the promise of Team Trump receiving dirty info on Team Clinton...from the Russians.

Young Donald Trump Jr. is truly his father's son: He doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut and because of this he tends to confirm the very things he's trying to deny.

In a statement on Sunday, Donald Trump Jr. said he had met with the Russian lawyer at the request of an acquaintance. "After pleasantries were exchanged," he said, "the woman stated that she had information that individuals connected to Russia were funding the Democratic National Committee and supporting Ms. Clinton. Her statements were vague, ambiguous and made no sense. No details or supporting information was provided or even offered. It quickly became clear that she had no meaningful information."

He said she then turned the conversation to adoption of Russian children and the Magnitsky Act, an American law that blacklists suspected Russian human rights abusers. The law so enraged President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia that he retaliated by halting American adoptions of Russian children.

"It became clear to me that this was the true agenda all along and that the claims of potentially helpful information were a pretext for the meeting," Mr. Trump said.

Read that last part again: "the claims of potentially helpful information were a pretext for the meeting."

Trump Jr. confirmed that he went into the meeting expecting to receive information from the Russian lawyer that could hurt Clinton. That is a breathtaking admission.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/09/us/politics/trump-russia-kushner-manafort.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/07/09/donald-trump-jr-s-stunningly-incriminating-statement-to-the-new-york-times/?utm_term=.a9ec75bb2b6e

As this was a Sunday event (today) I expect President Trump to make some asinine Twitter attacks within the next 24 hours. The problem is that he can't accuse his own son of spreading fake news like he does everyone else.

The one think I like about Trump Jr. is that he's as big an idiot as his father and just as good at shooting himself in the foot. :)

His attempt at explaining it was like "Yea I was colluding with them, but because I wanted to obtain information that they said was obtained through illegal acts of espionage against a protected official of the United States government."

Does n=he not understand how this works? Clinton is a former first lady of the United states who is granted secret service protection for the rest of her life due to her to being considered "too valuable" to have her information fall into the hands of foreign governments. Not ONLY was she a first lady, but a senator and secretary of state. ANY act against her is an act on a US official and in turn the US government. These people are too stupid to realize that US government officials of her rank are considered protected and off limits even when they are no longer in office. But of course I wouldn't expect his dumb ass to know that, or to even know that you cannot collude with foreign agents against US officials PERIOD. Why would he ever think this was okay?

The NYT story is bad for Trump and Jr., but I'd pump the brakes just a little on this one, and here's why -- the question isn't whether the Trump campaign was looking for incriminating info on Clinton. Obviously it was, and they were obviously willing to consult with nont-so-friendly governments to get it.

The question is, was the incriminating information the Trump campaign sought the product of overt illegal acts such as the DNC hacks? And that question, according to the story, still remains.

"The precise nature of the promised damaging information about Mrs. Clinton is unclear, and there is no evidence to suggest that it was related to Russian-government computer hacking that led to the release of thousands of Democratic National Committee emails."
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/us/politics/trump-russia-email-clinton.html?_r=0

Still, it feels like this is moving closer and closer to that conclusion, and you have to wonder why Manafort, Trump Jr. and others went through so much trouble to not only conceal such activity but repeatedly lie about it.

Ans also, it's important that this info first came to light from unnamed "White House advisers" and NOT the FBI or the Mueller investigation team. You have to wonder if those individuals are looking to cover themselves when things really go south.

Exley97:
The NYT story is bad for Trump and Jr., but I'd pump the brakes just a little on this one, and here's why -- the question isn't whether the Trump campaign was looking for incriminating info on Clinton. Obviously it was, and they were obviously willing to consult with nont-so-friendly governments to get it.

The question is, was the incriminating information the Trump campaign sought the product of overt illegal acts such as the DNC hacks? And that question, according to the story, still remains.

"The precise nature of the promised damaging information about Mrs. Clinton is unclear, and there is no evidence to suggest that it was related to Russian-government computer hacking that led to the release of thousands of Democratic National Committee emails."
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/us/politics/trump-russia-email-clinton.html?_r=0

Still, it feels like this is moving closer and closer to that conclusion, and you have to wonder why Manafort, Trump Jr. and others went through so much trouble to not only conceal such activity but repeatedly lie about it.

Ans also, it's important that this info first came to light from unnamed "White House advisers" and NOT the FBI or the Mueller investigation team. You have to wonder if those individuals are looking to cover themselves when things really go south.

There is more to it than that though because Hillary Clinton is a protected US government official for the rest of her life. To collude with a foreign government in acts of espionage, regardless of their method to do so, To EVEN solicit information is in violation of the law. I am not sure they understand that they cannot collude with a foreign government against a US official AT ALL.This is also a separate issue of colluding with them to subvert a US election, they would have that issue in addition to what they were doing against a protected official. She receives secret service protection for the rest of her life due to being considered too valuable to be compromised. Even when Bill passes, she will still receive protection. I do not think Trump or his numscull kids have any idea on how this is supposed to work here.

Clipped from Trump jr emails he released on his twitter:

The Crown Prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.
This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and it's government's support for Mr. trump- helped along by Aras and Emin.
What do you think is the best way to handle this information and would you be able to speak to Emin about it directly?
I can also send this info to your father via Rhona, but it is ultra sensitive so wanted to send to you first.
Best Rob Goldstone

https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr

So he met with this person with the purpose of colluding with the Russian government against a protected high level US official to subvert an election?

What does he thinks this tells us?!! This is somehow okay .. why?

Exley97:
Ans also, it's important that this info first came to light from unnamed "White House advisers" and NOT the FBI or the Mueller investigation team. You have to wonder if those individuals are looking to cover themselves when things really go south.

Wouldn't be surprising if that were the case. Trump brought his management style to the White House. He's hands-off, assigns people overlapping duties, screens appointees for loyalty to the family, and fosters a climate of uncertainty and intra-office rivalries. Much like Adolf Hitler, this was probably cultivated to prevent anyone within the loop gaining enough clout, influence or time to mount a challenge to the man up top. At least, to a point. I also do not discount the idea that Trump also does this for at least some personal amusement.

Of course, in such an environment, resentment will also build up. When you create an office climate of "anything goes" expecting 100% loyalty is foolish. The people in the system know that they can only ever afford to look out for Number 1, so there's little disincentive to sell your bosses out when things go south.

So yeah...apparently Trump Jr. just released screencaps of the emails.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/us/politics/trump-russia-email-clinton.html

Screencaps more easily seen here.

Relevant excerpt (in chronological order:

Good morning.
Emin just called me with something very interesting.

The Crown prosecutor of Russia[1] met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.
This is obviously very high level and sensitive information, but it is part of the Russian government's support for Mr. Trump - helped along by Aras and Emin.

What do you think is the best way to handle this information and would you be able to speak to Emin about it directly?
I can also send this info to your father directly via Rhona, but it is ultra sensitive so wanted to send it to you first.

Best
Rob Goldstone

---

Thanks Rob I appreciate that. I am on the road at the moment but perhaps I just speak to Emin first. Seems we have some time and if it's what you say I love it especially later in the summer. Could we do a call first thing in the week when I am back?

Best,
Don

Edit: Apparently others posted the same info as I was typing.

[1] British term. Russian equivalent is Prosecutor General of Russia. That would be Yury Yakovlevich Chaika

BeetleManiac:

Exley97:
Ans also, it's important that this info first came to light from unnamed "White House advisers" and NOT the FBI or the Mueller investigation team. You have to wonder if those individuals are looking to cover themselves when things really go south.

Wouldn't be surprising if that were the case. Trump brought his management style to the White House. He's hands-off, assigns people overlapping duties, screens appointees for loyalty to the family, and fosters a climate of uncertainty and intra-office rivalries. Much like Adolf Hitler, this was probably cultivated to prevent anyone within the loop gaining enough clout, influence or time to mount a challenge to the man up top. At least, to a point. I also do not discount the idea that Trump also does this for at least some personal amusement.

Of course, in such an environment, resentment will also build up. When you create an office climate of "anything goes" expecting 100% loyalty is foolish. The people in the system know that they can only ever afford to look out for Number 1, so there's little disincentive to sell your bosses out when things go south.

True, there may be a lot of resentment considering the nepotism within the administration, not to mention Trump's own penchant for embarassing his own people publicly. I was content to believe that the "advisers" in question were just tired of that crap and maybe they felt the walls closing in said, the hell with it. But I don't think that's it.

As Josh Barro of Business Insider pointed out, these leaks are from the White House itself, they are coming in bits and pieces so as to build momentum over time (and potentially embarrass the targets and media water-carriers who outright deny initial reports), and the big bombshells have come after last week's meeting with Putin. I don't think that's a coincidence.
https://twitter.com/jbarro/status/884804931957510144

The White House officials in question had to have been close to the matter at hand -- specifically, campaign work -- and present long before the administration took over in January. And if we rule out Trump's own family and "loyal" inner circle like Bannon, etc., then who does that leave? Who could it be? Hmmmmm....

On a TOTALLY unrelated point: President Pence has a nice ring to it, doesn't it?

Very sudden new development: Donald Trump Jr. has posted the email chain preceding his meeting with Natalia Veselnitskaya on his Twitter.

On the one hand: props to Donald Trump Jr. for his dedication to transparency. Credit where it's due, he just volunteered this whole thing on Twitter unprompted.

On the other hand: the email chain puts the meeting with Veselnitskaya in a context that is a hell of a lot more damning than what was available before. Trump Jr.'s earlier story was that he met with Veselnitskaya to discuss issues with US-Russian adoptions caused by US sanctions. Then he revised this to say that he met with her because she had useful information on Hillary Clinton, and left the meeting when it became apparent that she didn't, but that he didn't know she was a representative of the Russian government before the meeting occurred.

The email chains make it clear that the meeting was with "a Russian government attorney," and that the information was "high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump."

Now, this news has been breaking bit-by-bit over the last couple of days, and I honestly thought little of it initially. Trump Jr. met with a Russian lady; she had ties to the Kremlin; so what? Almost every member of the Trump administration, it's been revealed, has met with a Russian who has ties to the Kremlin. This seemed to be more smoke and no fire.

But the emails actually implicate Trump Jr. in a federal crime. See, it is very, very illegal for a US politician to accept foreign contributions, financial or otherwise, to a US political campaign. This was the source of the hubbub over the donations made to the Clinton Foundation by Saudi Arabia; people suspected that the Foundation was laundering Saudi cash for Clinton's campaign, which would be very, very, illegal.

Now, that turned out to be nothing - the money went to the Foundation, but the Foundation didn't fund Clinton's campaign. But what we have here is documentary evidence that Donald Trump Jr. met with someone he knew was a representative of the Russian government, with the aim of getting dirt on Hillary Clinton that he knew came from Russian intelligence, as part of the Russian government's support for the President.

Which raises the question: would sensitive information be considered something of value for the purposes of the law against foreign campaign contributions? Because if it was, then Donald Trump Jr. just admitted to soliciting the Russian government for contributions to his father's campaign. His only defence so far has been that he didn't know that was illegal, which is just stunning, really; if any of this is true, these are the most incompetent conspirators in the history of US politics.

Will this lead to anything? Who knows? Trump's voters just don't care. You couldn't convince these people he did something wrong if he took a shit on the sidewalk right in front of them. But it's all out there in the open, and I imagine Mueller is just quietly sitting in the wings, writing everything down, waiting for the day when Trump chucks a hissy fit and triggers a constitutional crisis by firing him.

Edit: Damn other posters, beating me to my scoop! Get outta here! Shoo!

(I'm kidding; clearly people are paying attention.)

Lil devils x:

There is more to it than that though because Hillary Clinton is a protected US government official for the rest of her life. To collude with a foreign government in acts of espionage, regardless of their method to do so, To EVEN solicit information is in violation of the law. I am not sure they understand that they cannot collude with a foreign government against a US official AT ALL.

What law are you referring to? I haven't seen any credible source argue that the mere act of soliciting opposition material or "dirt" on a political candidate, even if the information was produced from a foreign government, is illegal (if that's the case, then the Clinton camp could be implicated in the Steele dossier, which was reportedly sourced by Russian government agents). But I confess I'm just a journalist and not a legal scholar/lawyer, so I don't know.

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