Wondering whether I'm far too nice.

Hi kids, do you know what time it is? Yes, it's time for the misadventures of the 21 year old virgin!

I'll save you the explanation of how much it frustrates me, god, at least this time. I will say that it shames and kinda scares me how sometimes, I look at my female friends who I genuinely care about and think sexually about them; It feels wrong to do so, especially considering nothing is ever going to happen there; The majority of my female friends are not single, and way outta my league (although every girl is out of my league in my opinion).

I'm left a little confused. I've wanted a girlfriend for a very long time, which to my eyes simply means someone who understands you, and you understand them, but now with me going out a lot more than I probably should, I feel a second urge bugging me, namedly the one to simply get laid.

It feels so wrong to have such feelings-It seems the kind of people who usually have more feelings are the douchebags going around with the philosophy of "F***ing and dumping". I realise there's nothing wrong with two people simply having fun, as long as both parties understand that it's just that, but still, the thought that I could have something in common with such people terrifies me.

And there's been opportunities, unbelievably. Every so often, some girl has got incredibly drunk, and acted inmistakably flirty towards me, even to my autistic lack of recognition to the social signals everyone else seems to be masters of. Every single time I find some way to get out of it, because it feels so morally wrong to take advantage of someone like that, even when I'm also heavily inebriated. Sometimes I do see subtler things, or I think I see them...a girl looking at me wierd, in a good way, or seeming to talk to me a lot more than just a friend, but the girls around here are mostly rather attractive, I never get the balls to do anything about such subtle things because hell, there's no way such attractive girls could want anything to do with me.

Bottom line is, all that happens when a drunk girl comes on to me if that occasionally she apologises the next day. I feel horrible to say this, but sometimes it frustrates me so, I try to be nice and take advantage of girls, and it should be it's on reward, but I'm left feeling unapreciated, dare I say even unthanked. I know, a girl owes nothing to me for simply doing the right thing, but I can't stop these feelings. I try to stop them by reminding myself that I'm far too ugly for anyone to actually want me, but it just doesn't work.

I wonder whether I'm being too nice, whether this moral high road leads nowhere, or whether I'm a terrible person for even thinking such things. What do you guys think?

NOTE: About wanting to be thanked, I know that's awful, but I can't stop thinking it. I guess it's more like I just expect something karmic, that being a generally good person leads to generally good things. I know I shouldn't expect that, but that's why being a good person is difficult.

The urge to have sex isn't something exclusive to douchebags, it's kinda a part of our nature. Now, how you deal with that urge is what determines if you're a douchebag or not.

I'll add that it's not for you to decide if you're attractive or ugly to other people, something about beauty and the beholder. If you think they're paying special attention to you, go along with it. I'm not saying you should penetrate every drunk girl who winks at you, but there's no harm in trying to start some kind of relationship if you believe you have good cause. Worst they can plausibly do is say "no."

Doclector:
Snip

My advice would be to come to terms with your self-image problems first.
That is a huge turn off for ladies, insecurity is not sexy, it's reeeeeally not.
Confidence is. Take some time improving yourself to a point you can feel confident, tell yourself you deserve to be happy with someone, not that everyone is out of your league.

(I used to think the same way, being a girl who was never really girly, I thought no guy would be interested in someone like me. In fact there are guys who like girls who get their geeky jokes and will play games with them.)

I dont think your problem is being too nice, and not taking advantage of girls is the right thing to do. Also, getting annoyed at them because they dont thank you when you dont have sex with them when they are too drunk is wrong, cut it out. :P

Find a place you can meet girls who are not off their face, and try your best to be nice and interesting. The worst that will happen is they will say no.

Phasmal:

Doclector:
Snip

My advice would be to come to terms with your self-image problems first.
That is a huge turn off for ladies, insecurity is not sexy, it's reeeeeally not.
Confidence is. Take some time improving yourself to a point you can feel confident, tell yourself you deserve to be happy with someone, not that everyone is out of your league.

(I used to think the same way, being a girl who was never really girly, I thought no guy would be interested in someone like me. In fact there are guys who like girls who get their geeky jokes and will play games with them.)

I dont think your problem is being too nice, and not taking advantage of girls is the right thing to do. Also, getting annoyed at them because they dont thank you when you dont have sex with them when they are too drunk is wrong, cut it out. :P

Exactly; I know the majority of what I feel at the moment is morally wrong, and I hate myself for it.

Find a place you can meet girls who are not off their face, and try your best to be nice and interesting. The worst that will happen is they will say no.

That's easier said than done. Being a nerd who loves metal, very few of my typical social activities involve sobriety in any great way.

And I don't take rejection well. No one ever tells you what you did wrong, and usually everyone sees you fail. I don't like being seen to fail at anything, let alone something everyone else seems to find easy.

Doclector:
Snip.

Well, yeah, rejection is hard. But most of the time it has nothing to do with you, you can do all the right things and someone can just not be into you.

But I do think if you sort out your self image issues you will have a better chance with it.

As to your interests, the internet makes it a lot easier to meet people in your area with your interests. If you like metal, go to music shops, look for nerdy interest groups.

Phasmal:

I dont think your problem is being too nice, and not taking advantage of girls is the right thing to do.

While I honestly don't feel like I'm in the situation to give you too much advice on how to go about finding the right person, I just have to reiterate the quoted point. This is totally and completely the right thing to do, to not take advantage of drunk people. You should be proud of yourself for doing the right thing, especially when there are others around you who don't think twice about making bad choices.

Doclector:
Hi kids, do you know what time it is? Yes, it's time for the misadventures of the 21 year old virgin!

I detect a hint of self-esteem issues here.

Doclector:

I'll save you the explanation of how much it frustrates me, god, at least this time. I will say that it shames and kinda scares me how sometimes, I look at my female friends who I genuinely care about and think sexually about them; It feels wrong to do so, especially considering nothing is ever going to happen there; The majority of my female friends are not single, and way outta my league (although every girl is out of my league in my opinion).

It's completely normal to have these thoughts about just about anyone. I recall Freud mentioning something about a man's mother.

Doclector:
I'm left a little confused. I've wanted a girlfriend for a very long time, which to my eyes simply means someone who understands you, and you understand them, but now with me going out a lot more than I probably should, I feel a second urge bugging me, namedly the one to simply get laid.

It feels so wrong to have such feelings-It seems the kind of people who usually have more feelings are the douchebags going around with the philosophy of "F***ing and dumping". I realise there's nothing wrong with two people simply having fun, as long as both parties understand that it's just that, but still, the thought that I could have something in common with such people terrifies me.

Wanting to have sex is, again, perfectly normal for a guy in his twenties. It's not like all people with sexual urges are assholes.

Doclector:

And there's been opportunities, unbelievably. Every so often, some girl has got incredibly drunk, and acted inmistakably flirty towards me, even to my autistic lack of recognition to the social signals everyone else seems to be masters of. Every single time I find some way to get out of it, because it feels so morally wrong to take advantage of someone like that, even when I'm also heavily inebriated. Sometimes I do see subtler things, or I think I see them...a girl looking at me wierd, in a good way, or seeming to talk to me a lot more than just a friend, but the girls around here are mostly rather attractive, I never get the balls to do anything about such subtle things because hell, there's no way such attractive girls could want anything to do with me.

Having drunk sex isn't always the best idea, but then again, if both parties are willing, why not? If it's not your style, then feel free to not do it, but I'm still saying it's a good night's fun. And you can feel free to ask any of the older fellas here, and they'll tell you the same thing. Even ugly bastards eventually meet girls that like them. It's just a simple matter of maturity on everyone's part. You start taking care of your appearance, and girls start looking at more than surface appearances. Or vice versa. And to be honest, you're never really out of anyones league, it's an outdated idea forced on by popculture.

Doclector:

Bottom line is, all that happens when a drunk girl comes on to me if that occasionally she apologises the next day. I feel horrible to say this, but sometimes it frustrates me so, I try to be nice and take advantage of girls, and it should be it's on reward, but I'm left feeling unapreciated, dare I say even unthanked. I know, a girl owes nothing to me for simply doing the right thing, but I can't stop these feelings. I try to stop them by reminding myself that I'm far too ugly for anyone to actually want me, but it just doesn't work.

I wonder whether I'm being too nice, whether this moral high road leads nowhere, or whether I'm a terrible person for even thinking such things. What do you guys think?

I'm having trouble keeping up with this particular train of thought, but if I'm reading this correctly, you're hoping that being nice to drunk chicks will eventually pay off?

Well, being nice in general will eventually pay off. Being nice to drunk chicks is just you trying to get some booty. And to be honest, that's a bit of an outdated idea bloated by popculture too. Okay, so you might occasionally get to a girls place after the pub, and making get to take part in a little horizontal mambo, but that's not really bad, now is it?

This isn't really big issue, to be honest. A drunk girl flirts with you, and you flirt back. After that, anything can happen or not happen. It doesn't really matter. And honestly, get over this whole "I'm too ugly to be loved" mantra. You keep that up and you'll never rise up.

PS. Pics and I might believe you on this "ugly" matter. ;D

As a girl, I would just like to say that when we are being flirty when drunk, usually we wont feel used and pissed off the next morning after sex because we are aware that we initiated it.
If both parties are willing, just go ahead and do it.

I dont think turning a girl down when they make a move on you is anything to be thanked about.
What if the girl actually had feelings for you and was taking a chance because she was drunk?

Also, your post made me wonder if you think that you absolutely have to have a proper relationship before you have sex with a girl at all times.
What is the right environment/ situation for you to get laid?

Angie7F:
As a girl, I would just like to say that when we are being flirty when drunk, usually we wont feel used and pissed off the next morning after sex because we are aware that we initiated it.
If both parties are willing, just go ahead and do it.

I dont think turning a girl down when they make a move on you is anything to be thanked about.
What if the girl actually had feelings for you and was taking a chance because she was drunk?

Also, your post made me wonder if you think that you absolutely have to have a proper relationship before you have sex with a girl at all times.
What is the right environment/ situation for you to get laid?

Well, if I know that the girls willing, and let's face it, she'd most likely be in a club, and thus at least a little drunk at the time, (I'm pretty sure random people in the street don't run up to other people and say "Hey, do you wanna f***?" and if they do, they usually demand payment) but just not too drunk, not drunk to the point where I can see she essentially has no proper judgement. Unfortunately, that seems to be the point where they are if they flirt with me.

I'd like a fully fledged relationship, but I guess my own urges have gotten to the point where I don't care anymore. Either that, or I simply have the maturity that I didn't before not to have such a knee jerk reaction to the concept of a one night thing. I guess also, I worry that at this point, if I got an actual girlfriend, she'd expect me to have the "experience" most 21 year olds would. If I ever meet someone special, I guess I don't want to lose them because I disapointed them. S*** I don't know.

And again, I know it's wrong to want to be thanked, especially when you put it like that. I don't really expect to be thanked, and I know to expect that would be hideously wrong. I guess it's more like I just feel generally that trying to be a good person is rarely rewarded. It shouldn't be, I know, but I guess that's what makes being a good person so damn difficult sometimes.

And I guess I never really considered that a girl might actually have fancied me in one of those situations. I just thought it impossible. Maybe I'm too quick to assume that. Then again, I really don't want to help someone do something they'll regret for my own selfish urges.

Y'know, usually I don't give a crap about my autism, But it's times like this that not knowing how to interpret social signals REALLY sucks.

I seem to be raising more questions than answers here, but perhaps I wasn't asking the right questions anyway. Thanks.

Doclector:
I wonder whether I'm being too nice, whether this moral high road leads nowhere, or whether I'm a terrible person for even thinking such things. What do you guys think?

I think you're wrapped in your world of self-pity and self-doubt that's perpetuating itself by your constant expectation that the world owes you something and doesn't think you deserve what you want.

The only way to break free is to take what you want and fuck anyone who tries to hinder your happiness. Fuck morality, just do what you want. The moral highroad leads somewhere but it isn't a full life, which is the destination you want to be headed for.

Doclector:
Bottom line is, all that happens when a drunk girl comes on to me if that occasionally she apologises the next day.

See, what I'm hearing here is... girls come on to you when they've drunk enough to get the guts to do so. You turn them down, so of course they assume that you didn't want to, or that they've made you uncomfortable. They feel rejected and embarrassed and so apologise to you for being drunk and stupid enough to think that you'd be up for it.

Sooo... instead of giving this impression to girls that you're just not into sex, why don't you ask the ones who've come onto you when they were inebriated (and so are more likely to fancy you while sober as well and if they don't then they certainly can't blame you for getting that impression) out to dinner or something else where they won't get drunk and make you feel bad about getting intimate with them? Let them know you weren't turning them down 'cause you think they're icky but simply because it seemed like a bad time to pull them.

As others have said: wanting sex doesn't make you a macho douchebag, it makes you normal. Sex isn't the reserve of the beautiful and the glamorous - each and every one of us is alive today because our grandparents once had sex.

Conversely, denying yourself sex (or avoiding potential sexual encouters) doesn't make you a "nice guy". At worst, it'll make you bitter and self-loathing, and there is absolutely nothing noble or admirable about cultivating a victim complex or a "Madonna/whore" attitude toward women.

Loosen up, man. Women are people too, and just like us they like sex (and romance) and fear rejection.

My best advice is just to get yourself out there, make some cringeworthy mistakes that you'll laugh about with your future wife, and remember that as in all endeavours you should aim for iterative improvement, not instant perfection.

Doclector:
Being a nerd who loves metal, very few of my typical social activities involve sobriety in any great way.

Time to become a bit more multi-faceted, then! Put yourself in new and different social situations. Join a few social or sports clubs, maybe?

Batou667:
As others have said: wanting sex doesn't make you a macho douchebag, it makes you normal. Sex isn't the reserve of the beautiful and the glamorous - each and every one of us is alive today because our grandparents once had sex.

Conversely, denying yourself sex (or avoiding potential sexual encouters) doesn't make you a "nice guy". At worst, it'll make you bitter and self-loathing, and there is absolutely nothing noble or admirable about cultivating a victim complex or a "Madonna/whore" attitude toward women.

Loosen up, man. Women are people too, and just like us they like sex (and romance) and fear rejection.

My best advice is just to get yourself out there, make some cringeworthy mistakes that you'll laugh about with your future wife, and remember that as in all endeavours you should aim for iterative improvement, not instant perfection.

Doclector:
Being a nerd who loves metal, very few of my typical social activities involve sobriety in any great way.

Time to become a bit more multi-faceted, then! Put yourself in new and different social situations. Join a few social or sports clubs, maybe?

They always seem to prove a problem to me. The course I'm on at uni is a little erratic in workloads...I could be quite bored for a while, then be assaulted by work non stop for two weeks. This means in sports clubs, I seem to get started then fall behind awfully quick. Like I said before, I hate to publicly fail at anything. It doesn't help that I ain't the fittest person to begin with.

Social clubs is a possibility, but I honestly struggle to think of any that'd suit me.

Doclector:
Social clubs is a possibility, but I honestly struggle to think of any that'd suit me.

Language courses are always a good bet.

Well seeing how you start off by stating that you think that pretty much any girl is out of your league, I'd say that your problem isn't that you're nice, it's that you don't seem to have any confidence with girls whatsoever. This normally leads to a decent amount of self-pity, which let me tell you is probably the most un-sexy thing in the entire world.

As has been stated before by other escapists, denying yourself sex doesn't make you a 'nice guy'. Yeah, it's great that you wouldn't take advantage of someone who's flat-out drunk and obviously has no idea what the hell is going on, but a tipsy girl coming on to you isn't the same thing. If you reject them, they'll obviously feel uncomfortable about it the next day and think that they made fools of themselves and apologize.

Be brave, do something crazy. Ask a girl you're interested in out. The worst thing that can happen is that they say no, and hell, that's just a two-letter word. You have to be open to making a few mistakes if you want to get anywhere.

lettucethesallad:
Well seeing how you start off by stating that you think that pretty much any girl is out of your league, I'd say that your problem isn't that you're nice, it's that you don't seem to have any confidence with girls whatsoever. This normally leads to a decent amount of self-pity, which let me tell you is probably the most un-sexy thing in the entire world.

As has been stated before by other escapists, denying yourself sex doesn't make you a 'nice guy'. Yeah, it's great that you wouldn't take advantage of someone who's flat-out drunk and obviously has no idea what the hell is going on, but a tipsy girl coming on to you isn't the same thing. If you reject them, they'll obviously feel uncomfortable about it the next day and think that they made fools of themselves and apologize.

Be brave, do something crazy. Ask a girl you're interested in out. The worst thing that can happen is that they say no, and hell, that's just a two-letter word. You have to be open to making a few mistakes if you want to get anywhere.

I guess really, it's the shame of failure that stops me just seeing it as a simple rejection...I can't stand the thought of everyone around me seeing me as a loser. Although I'm pretty open and tend to make jokes about my lack of success with women, somehow actually failing would be far harder to swallow.

well first thing you are not to nice or anything, there isnt such a thing as to nice
the fact that you dont take advantage of drunk girls is (at least in my book) admirable.
now because im only 16 im not in a rush to get laid or anything but when i do get to it i want it to be with someone i love not some random drunk (even a hot random drunk) is that what you feel? if so dont worry! there is no need to be in a hurry to get laid.
now if you dont wait for this spacial one then you shouldnt feel bad about this just go with it and have fun! no shame in that!
also stop telling yourself that you are ugly i know you heard it a thousand times but if you wont stop telling yourself that youll keep thinking it and you will never be able to just go with it...
hope i helped!

if you're too nice, then maybe just maybe your taste in femanons is just too bad.

don't go for the badgirls who only ever want the badboys... they've serious issues.

Doclector:
I wonder whether I'm being too nice, whether this moral high road leads nowhere, or whether I'm a terrible person for even thinking such things. What do you guys think?

I figure I'll leave this here...it's something I think all self-described "nice guys" who are having women troubles should read. Lord knows it applied to me when I was in my early 20's.

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml

There is nothing wrong with being a nice guy, but there is a difference between a nice guy and a doormat. Knowing what you want and going after it because you want it is a natural response, if you deny yourself sex in the name of being a good guy then you are missing out on some great opportunities.

If the girl is falling down drunk and can barely talk then it would be wrong to sleep with her, however if both you and the girl had some drinks but were both in a sane state of mind (drunk but not trashed) then it wouldn't be taking advantage, in fact she might have been hurt you turned her down in the first place. Putting yourself out there and basically telling someone "hey we should get naked" is never an easy thing regardless if you are a boy or a girl.

just ask a girl out, the worst that could happen is she says no and despite what our minds tell us no one will think less of us for getting rejected (and surely no one will laugh at you).

Just remember, Sex is like pizza, even when it's bad it's still pretty good.

lisadagz:

Sooo... instead of giving this impression to girls that you're just not into sex, why don't you ask the ones who've come onto you when they were inebriated (and so are more likely to fancy you while sober as well and if they don't then they certainly can't blame you for getting that impression) out to dinner or something else where they won't get drunk and make you feel bad about getting intimate with them? Let them know you weren't turning them down 'cause you think they're icky but simply because it seemed like a bad time to pull them.

This!! I love this piece of advise.

I think if the girl remembers what she did the night before and comes to apologize, then that means she is not drunk to a point where she cant make judgement calls.

So, the best gentleman thing to do is not take advantage of her, but not turn her down.
Tell them "Thank you but no thank you. But do you want to exchange numbers and we can hang out just the two of us in a different setting?" That, would be the best reaction a guy can give to a girl, i think.

If she doesnt remember this conversation the next day, you did the right thing by not taking advantage of her.
If she remembers and things turn out into a date, then you have your chance at a full fledged relationship like you want. What do you think???

Thinking sexual thoughts about people you know isn't really unusual, I think your virginity is playing on your mind and whether consciously or not you feel the need to lose it. This might be the centre of all your related woes. When it happens, it won't make anything any different. You'll still get frustrated and you'll still think dirty thoughts about people. Take a step back from that. Remember that no one cares about your sexual experiences, or lack of them. You might tell yourself that you're ugly, but even when inebriated, a girl can still choose one guy over another, and if you're getting flirted with then you can't be as hideous as you're telling yourself. I think it is a good idea to try and swap numbers with a girl next time she's throwing herself at you, see what happens.

 

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