So, suddenly self esteem is lost.

Well, over the past couple years my self esteem had built up and up and eventually I was one confident mother fucker. Then the last few months hit. New life, started college, getting adjusted to everything, and then there's the always fun "Girlfriend hunt." Me being so confident, I wasn't worried one bit. First girl: Too old, has a boyfriend. No biggie, just one out of the hundreds of options at my disposal, right? Second girl, too religious, wouldn't even date me since I'm agnostic. Alright, fine. A few conversations with some girls afterwards just had the boyfriend card played, so those went no where. In short, self esteem is now dropping. Next girl, get a chance to go out with her, or thought I did. BAM! She has a girlfriend. At this point, I'm just thinking I have rotten luck. Yeah, I'm not as confident as I once was, but I'm not hopelessly depressed. Oh but then came this week...Rejection for not being "Manly enough."

Here's some background for everyone: I am the youngest of my generation in my family. In my family, we have the following occupations for the men: Naval officer, fireman, carpenter, engineer, construction worker, mechanic, welder. So, with all these "Manly Men" that surround me through out my childhood, I didn't want to be in the "Family business." My father was the closest person I ever wanted to follow footsteps in as the rest of my family weren't too bright. But I concluded the navy life isn't really a life for me. So what am I aiming to be? An actor.

So for most of my life, subject of gender roles and stereotypes have always been touchy for me, and my parents. I am more in touch with my feminine side than most guys. I can club dance better than most of my girl friends, I love to go shopping for new clothes, I love designing rooms and help decorating and cooking and all of this.

But, I'm not a wimp, I'm not afraid of most people. I know how to fight, I choose not to unless forced to. I love to surf and play handball and football with a group when I can. But the simple fact of "You're not manly enough" as a reason to not date me...? So, you're willing to pass up boyfriend that is willing to stop whatever he is doing to give you his attention when asked for it, a guy that is willing to comfort you, just for the sake of comforting you. A guy who is willing to defend you whenever you are threatened, and if he does anything to hurt you, he tries his best to make up for it if he can...just because he happens to be a bit flamboyant?

This is mostly to just vent, but this is what happened to me over the week. It was a major shot to my self esteem, like a sniper rifle fire a 114mm bullet at point blank range shot. My closest friend's girlfriend is offering to help me get my self esteem back by taking me girlfriend hunting, as from what just happened this week, that self esteem has just been shot down. I've dated girls that like manly men before, in fact I'd say that's most of my girlfriends, but they've seen my "Manly" side, as well as the feminine side. I have so many moods and modes that all come out when a situation calls for them, or when they're forced out by some mean.

So...just so I can actually have some advice. How to cope, how to help raise my relationship-self-esteem, and just...how do you respond to something like this...?

You simply have to stop caring.

That sounds counterintuitive, but it's true. The more you focus on the way you feel internally, the less time and energy you have to devote to externalities that are ultimately more important. Loneliness is difficult, almost unbearable, but I've learned recently that it's less important to your long-term happiness to focus on those things that can only be focused on by introverting and shutting yourself out from the rest of the world.

There are people - girls - who want you to stay locked inside yourself. That's because it gives them more power over you. If you make them privy to every last thought or fleeting feeling in your head, you come to believe that you can only rely on them to give some shape to the formless substance of your thoughts. This is wrong.

It helps to be able to be selectively superficial. You have to reach a point where you're comfortable with the surface, or else you'll be stuck in the deep end of the pool. Now, all this advice sounds obtuse and vague, but I think, as an actor, you'll be able to appreciate what I'm striking at.

More concretely, if you're flamboyant, parlay that into charisma. I myself am pretty effeminate, in mannerisms if not in demeanor, and I've never had a hard time getting girlfriends (keeping them is another matter entirely). You can be fashionable and masculine - 'dapper' is the word they used to describe it with, and it still applies. Let your innate qualities work for you, not against you. If you're an actor, then act. Spout off one-liners that, while they may not be quite as probing at second-glance as they seem at first, draw people to you.

If you continue basing your self esteem on women... you're fucked. Seriously. You think we undermine each other's and our own self confidence? We're even worse to men.

Be confident in yourself. Are you good at acting? Be more confident. Are you in good shape? Be confident. Are you smart, passing your classes? be proud. Do you have good friends? Be proud. Does your family love you? You're better of than most.

Such like that... look inwards for confidence.

For example - me. I'm overweight and lazy... but I'm damn smart - always have been. I always have the right answer handy and know how to make things easier. I have a great family. I've paid off all my debts. I worked hard and have a really great job. I keep my finances is great order. I help people out by donating time and money. I enjoy my 'me' time. I have wonderful skin, great thick hair and beautiful eyes... All of these things make me proud of myself. None of them have anything to do with anyone but me.

Find your 'me' things and be proud of those.

And stay away from women until you've got yourself straightened out. We'll tear you apart.

Like someone stated above me, don't base your confidence on how easy you go with the women.

You probably feel like that all the guys out there can just pick up women with one pick up line and that sort of thing, but the reality is very different for most of us. Don't let that false reality make you insecure.

As for the manliness part... I think that's more of a dominance-thing. Being in touch with your feminine side does not mean you're not manly, however I do think that not being dominant is easily percieved as not being manly.
If you know you're the submissive type, then that may be your 'problem', eventhough I don't like calling it that. It's just a part of you (which you could change, if you want to).

If you know you're the dominant type, perhaps flaunt it a bit more. Be a bit more dominant?

Just some thoughts, I hope they help.

Build your confidence from within, try not to look for outside validation.
Dating is difficult and it's hard not to take rejection personally, but everybody is different and it's hard to find someone who is right for you and you are right for them.

Do stuff you're good at, and that you enjoy.
Maybe take a break from girlfriend hunting.

IndomitableSam:

And stay away from women until you've got yourself straightened out. We'll tear you apart.

Ugh, Indomitable, I hate to be this lady but can please you tone down the `I totally hate other women` stuff.
It's a little grating, and I see you mentioning it a lot recently.
It's no less sexist coming out of your mouth than a dudes.

"Confidence" is one of those words everyone likes to swing about as if it was a dead cat, and nobody really knows what the hell it's supposed to mean in the first place.

I suspect people mean that it means something along the lines of "Being cool with yourself and just doing your thing", but all the "checklists" that circle out there you allegedly have to complete to get your "I'm confident" badge are just silly.

So I'll go with that. Stop caring about women, start caring about yourself. Do you want to punch that guy in the mirror? If yes, then find out why and change that. If not; just do your thing and quit caring about what people will say.

DrgoFx:
So...just so I can actually have some advice. How to cope, how to help raise my relationship-self-esteem, and just...how do you respond to something like this...?

As a not-particularly-alpha-male who is more in touch with his feminine side than most, I can assure you this is not a winning character trait in the dating sweepstakes. I can count on the fingers of one hand women who have thought it acceptable, let alone welcomed it. It is my long experience that women prefer, if not a MANLY MAN, at least a masculine man, with all the trappings that our currently assigned social role comes with. Confidence, assertiveness, ruggedness, etc. And really, that's okay. I don't know a lot of guys who go in for masculine women either, myself included. It's just the way this shit works. As long as you can project "guy" from time to time and don't feel the need to kit up in frocks, you should be alright.

DrgoFx:
So...just so I can actually have some advice. How to cope, how to help raise my relationship-self-esteem, and just...how do you respond to something like this...?

Some girls want masculine guys, some don't. Personally, If you were much manlier than you sound, I would probably find you too manly for my tastes.

It's like losing self esteem because you're blonde, not brunette like they prefer. Or because you're into rock music and they'd prefer a guy who was into the R&B scene. You're not to a particular girl's tastes, so what? There are other girls who will want you just fine.

From the sound of it you are undermining your own confidence. You are jumping at every opportunity to ask someone out and seeing every new girl you meet as a potential girlfriend, which colours your interactions with them. Calm down. Be patient. Get to know people before asking them out. Wait until you meet someone whose opinions and beliefs are compatible with yours, who is fun to talk to and who you enjoy spending time with. Stop "hunting" and find out what kind of person they are before putting yourself on the line. What's the rush?

DrgoFx:
-snip-

Now this is the story all about how
My life got flipped, turned upside down
And I'd like to take a minute just sit right there
I'll tell you how I became the prince of a town called Bel-air Torrington.

Wait
That's not right.

Start over.

Anyway.

I'm going to try two methods (a bit late I know, but hey, better late than never) to boost you up a bit.
One's a comparison, the other is a pep-speech. Let's go motherfucker.

Pep-Speech
You're awesome, who gives a shit what others think.
Girls are plenty in this wonderful world, you just gotta find the right ones.
Explore, try out, and don't be afraid of rejection.
The rejection thing is really important.

So what if a girl rejects you? She doesn't know what she's missing out on, she's missing out on you, the baddest motherfucker to exist.

So keep going till you find a girl who appreciates you, if it takes a while who gives a shit? Better to be with a good girl than to be with a slut or a dope who you managed to barely pick up.

Come on, be awesome, fuck da police.

(Also, be confident, that's important)

Moving on
Comparison
Alright, close your eyes and clear your mind.

Actually, don't do that, that's fucking stupid, you wouldn't be able to read what I'm writing.

Read my words with an open mind.

Imagine the following. You are a nerd, Star Trek, Star Wars, stargate, video games, internet, Dungeons and Dragons. You own that shit.

Got it? Good.

Imagine you went through middle school and a lot of high school being socially awkward. You didn't understand girls, and tended to put your foot in your mouth.

Feeling uncomfortable? Lets move on.

Imagine that your pretty overweight, nearing obese. To add to it your a red head and since your going through puberty at the time have acne.

Feeling really weird? Good.

Imagine that everyone stepped all over you, you were a carpet, no self-esteem, no ego, no nada.

Feeling depressed? Great.

Now imagine that you grew the fuck up, realized your fucking awesome, grew an ego, learned to understand women and people, learned to use your strengths and said "fuck anyone who doesn't like me, I'm too awesome for them."

You are now me.

You are now a 6 foot tall, fat and sometimes awkward ginger who's level 20 Paladin in dungeons and dragons will be kickin all forms of ass.

And you've also had some fucking great relationships over the course of a few years, you got laid (finally), you went to a bunch of parties (Horrible as they are), you became accepted (fucking wonderful feeling), you grew a pair and stepped up to the plate and got rewarded.

My question to you is, if I can do it, if I can walk up to the right girl, ask her out, and have a wonderful relationship, what the fuck is stopping you?

Oh, that's right, nothing.

Because your fucking awesome.

If I can do it, you can do it. The only obstacle is you.

Time to nut up or shut up buddy.

Now go get a girlfriend and make the internet proud, better yet, make yourself proud.

You awesome piece of chiseled demi-god.

OP, you kinda screwed yourself by accepting the premise that there's an objective standard for 'manliness' and that you somehow failed to meet it.

Also, that's a shallow-ass reason to reject someone. You sound like a decent guy who got shot down for a horseshit reason. It happens. It also means that there was nothing with her for you.

Chin up, bro.

fapper plain:
OP, you kinda screwed yourself by accepting the premise that there's an objective standard for 'manliness' and that you somehow failed to meet it.

Also, that's a shallow-ass reason to reject someone. You sound like a decent guy who got shot down for a horseshit reason. It happens. It also means that there was nothing with her for you.

Chin up, bro.

yup
and i also find your reasoning pretty lacking. odds are i beat you as far as manliness goes but i'm sure there are a few million guys out there that beat me by wrestling bears and being pirates and each one of those guys is gonna get rejected at some point because they are not sensitive enough or the girl prefers someone who looks like beiber and drives a prius

you can just as easily get rejected because your hair or eyes are the wrong colour, you don't like heavy metal or don't have a third arm. you can not be all things to all ppl and you should prolly get used to it now and base your feeling of self worth on something more important

what we have here is like a child going to an amusement park and upon reading "you must be this tall to ride" trying to argue the fact that they think they are pretty tall and should be able to ride anything they want

Dating in college is a numbers game overwritten with hormones.

You simply should not let the rejects get you down and keep looking for more.

fapper plain:
OP, you kinda screwed yourself by accepting the premise that there's an objective standard for 'manliness' and that you somehow failed to meet it.

Objective? No. But there is a subjective one that is almost universally applied. If you think society has outgrown its gender role issues you're in for a nasty surprise. And it's not really anyone's fault, either, hormones and biology play a huge role in what we look for in a sexual partner.

You're not exactly doomed if you're not a fucking lumberjack, but confirming to the general cultural expectations of your gender can and does make life easier for people, especially when it comes to dating. Men are just as likely to get rejected for a lack of "manliness" as a woman is for being too "butch".

fapper plain:
Also, that's a shallow-ass reason to reject someone.

There's really no such thing as a "shallow" reason to reject someone. Usually your romantic tastes and what you do or do not find attractive are pretty hard wired, and there's not much you can do about it. Everyone has their preferences. You have your preferences. I have my preferences. Could you date someone you found repugnant just to prove how deep and complex a person you are? Obviously you could not. Attacking people who reject us might make us feel better, but it also makes up hypocrites.

The problem with all of that is this: from the OP, I get the impression that the girl who rejected the OP did so with very little (if any) knowledge about him.

That is shallow.

Society does still cling to gender roles to some extent, but it's not nearly as prevalent as one would expect, from my experience.

fapper plain:
The problem with all of that is this: from the OP, I get the impression that the girl who rejected the OP did so with very little (if any) knowledge about him.

That is shallow.

How so? Do you not reject people you're not into sexually without getting to know them first? Don't even answer, we both know that you do. Everyone does.

The heart wants what the heart wants, and the loins want what the loins want. It's not really something you mitigate by becoming a better person. A lot of people get lionized for having naturally low standards, and there's not really anything noble about it. They're just fortunate enough to have a wider range of people they find attractive. Personally I wish I found EVERYONE attractive. Having specific preferences is just limiting for *me*.

I'm pretty sure the first rule of being a man is don't let the thought of women drag you down, needing someone for whatever your reason seems to be what bringing you down not not having a girlfriend. If that makes sense.

I know this is a bit old, but you know what you need to do?
You need to go up to whoever said you weren't "manly enough" and tell them "HEY.
You know who else is an actor?


Just look at how goddamn manly he is and tell me actors can't be manly.

 

Reply to Thread

This thread is locked