Difficulty waking up early.

I'm sick of this. Maybe I should find a specialist, but I'm too lazy and too procastinator to do that.
This single thing is one of the causes for me being unsuccessful at school, even sleeping slightly more than most of my colleagues, I arrived and I was so sleepy I slept during class. It was also one of the reasons I dropped college, I couldn't go another 3 years waking up early and unmotivated.
My brain is simply more active at night, it annoys me to no end why society works from 8AM to 5PM and not 12 to 00.
Right now I'm unemployed so I don't have to wake up early often, still, I started a French class because I'm now in Belgium and need to better my French to find work and I gave up partially because of this, though in this case the main reason was simply that I think I learn better on my own than in a class (that is, if I put some effort which I don't always do).

Right now I'm eyeing some formations I could do, but they always start early, I cannot compromise myself doing something before solving this problem I've been having for years.
At first I blamed my lack of motivation since I always disliked school, but it's not only that, even for things I'm looking forward to I have great difficulty.

Here are some information about sleeping - http://www.supermemo.com/articles/sleep.htm (check myths and facts section, it's interesting, like 'Myth: Being late for school is a sign of laziness. Fact: If a young person suffers from DSPS, it may have perpetual problems with getting up for school in time. Those kids are often actually brighter than average and are by no means lazy. However, their optimum circadian time for intellectual work comes after the school or even late into the evening. At school they are drowsy and slow and simply waste their time. If chronotherapy does not help, parents should consider later school hours or even home-schooling")

By the way, just going to bed early and wake up early doesn't work, or might work at first, but not for a long time, I think I have a slightly Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome http://www.supermemo.com/articles/sleepchart.html
So if left alone I'll always sleep later tomorrow than today. I can keep a steady schedule but it's usually a late schedule, right now I'm going to sleep around 2 or 3 AM and waking up at 11:00, 12:00 or 13:00 (so the days I have to wake up early I still get minimum of 4 hours of sleep), but my favourite schedule is from 6 AM to 14:00, which I feel like it's also the time I have better sleep quality.

I'm probably more informed than most of you anyway. But maybe someone will surprise me. I think navigating through Internet lots of hours per day, specially right before sleeping doesn't help at all, but I don't think that's the only problem.

You're probably not going to like what I have to say...

All these reasons and such seems to be your way of justifying your actions, the myth and facts section especially. Having kids believe that being late for school is not only okay but a sign of intelligence is a highly destructive thought. In the real world (by which I mean when you are alone and do not have any parent or guardian to care for you) you can't be late. The average work hours is between 8AM-6PM and school prepares you for that by making you wake then study at those times.

I would blame your sleepless nights on lack of motivation, you have identified this yourself yet you haven't done anything to counteract it, you seem complacent, lazy. Evidence of this is how you wish the world would cater to your sleep schedule simply for your convenience.

I suggest you try to adapt and force your body to fix it's sleep schedule, what's keeping you up at night? if it's using the computer install f.lux, a program that alters your screen light at night from white to yellow light; which actually lets your body feel sleepy instead of tricking it into thinking the sun is still up. Try drinking coffee before you sleep so that when you wake the caffeine will take affect so you won't feel tired in the morning. There are plenty of ways to wake up earlier and feel more refreshed but so far all your efforts seem to be focused on ways to justify your sleep patterns.

I know how you feel. My "natural" daily rythm doesn't fit in 24 hours so I'm always getting to bed before I'm tired and getting up before I'm rested.

Keoul:
You're probably not going to like what I have to say...

All these reasons and such seems to be your way of justifying your actions, the myth and facts section especially. Having kids believe that being late for school is not only okay but a sign of intelligence is a highly destructive thought. In the real world (by which I mean when you are alone and do not have any parent or guardian to care for you) you can't be late. The average work hours is between 8AM-6PM and school prepares you for that by making you wake then study at those times.

I would blame your sleepless nights on lack of motivation, you have identified this yourself yet you haven't done anything to counteract it, you seem complacent, lazy. Evidence of this is how you wish the world would cater to your sleep schedule simply for your convenience.

Sorry, but you're wrong, ok I have many faults, but that's a different story.
And I know it isn't just lack of motivation.

Maybe you're just not doing enough during the time you're awake. If you sit on your ass all day on the computer then you're not exactly exhausting yourself. Try jogging or something.

I'm going to have to go with Keoul on this one: You sound pretty lazy. Especially telling is how you apparently quit college just because you couldn't be bothered to stay awake.

As for how to fix it... I don't know what to tell you. As some who works 12 hour days and frequently have to switch from days to nights, I just man the hell up and deal with it.

I doubt this will work for you.

So, here's something I've been doing lately (To compensate for my mild insomnia I got after quitting smoking): Take melatononin before you go to bed 9And go to bed when you should instead of when you want). Stuffs been helping me pass out earlier, and I find I only need about 5-6 hours of sleep now.

The stuff is non-habit forming, and hopefully, you can stop taking it after a few weeks, when you've trained your new sleep schedule in.

Anoni Mus:

Sorry, but you're wrong, ok I have many faults, but that's a different story.
And I know it isn't just lack of motivation.

You do know quitting school because you can't be bothered to suck it up is basically the definition of lacking motivation, right?

set your alarm for 7 am and go for a walk. do not sleep until night time.
it will take a week of doing that and you will be a morning person

Lethos:
Maybe you're just not doing enough during the time you're awake. If you sit on your ass all day on the computer then you're not exactly exhausting yourself. Try jogging or something.

Thought about that, it might be a factor, but when I was in school I had P.E and still had this problem.

I'm split on this. I find it strange that in a day and age where we attach labels to every little quirk anyone has that such a condition that could really affect someone's life would go unnoticed by most for no good reason.

On the other hand, I know plenty of people who could never be called lazy, or even particularly unmotivated, that simply can't stay in a "normal" sleeping pattern for long, if they ever can manage it. I know some who are stuck in a cycle of waking at 4 AM after a healthy night's rest and not being able to stay alert for a whole working day.

Myself, my sleeping pattern's all over the place. I don't even need to "intentionally" screw it up by staying up too late or waking up at an unusual time, my sleeping pattern would seem to have a mind of it's own. When that mind decides that I need to go to sleep late, but the world decides I need to wake up early, it's extremely frustrating when I drag my ass into an early lecture or whatever I've been asked to do, only to recieve scorn when I'm not completely alert. It's like, fuck, I'm trying here, I'm trying to work past my own problems, and all these people do is give me shit for it.

I've been a night person for as long as I can remember. I did my first 'all nighter' when I was 10 years old. I've had a lot of trouble at jobs because I would stay up too late, so I started trying all sorts of sleeping drugs (including Ambien), none of which worked. That is, until I started taking melatonin, which should be available at any drug store.

Many people say that melatonin doesn't work but it does for me. I use the 3 milligram pills (mg, not micrograms, which is mcg). What happens is my brain may be active, but my eyes feel sleepy. I can't explain it better, sorry. In order for melatonin to work you cannot drink any alcohol. Avoid artificial light like televisions or PC monitors. Just turn everything off, take some melatonin, and 30 minutes later you should start feeling the effects.

The only "problem" with melatonin for me is that at best, I sleep for six hours. Some days I felt like it was still in my system, even during the afternoon. My solution was: first thing in the morning, do push-ups (or press-ups). Do them no matter what. You'll be surprised just how easily your eyes clear up after just ten push-ups.

Random method of waking up early: buy a coffee maker with an automatic timer. Set your alarm for whatever time you need to get up (lets say 7:00) and set the coffee maker to start at 7:05. Keep the coffee pot on your night stand. That way, when you wake up, you have to get to the kitchen to put the pot under the maker, or else you'll have a huge mess to clean up. Then, you're up, out of bed, and have coffee to get you going.

AccursedTheory:
As for how to fix it... I don't know what to tell you. As some who works 12 hour days and frequently have to switch from days to nights, I just man the hell up and deal with it.

I doubt this will work for you.

I LOL'd. Call it like it is, brother!

OT: I disliked school for that reason also (among many others). I simply don't function well before about 10am. I made it through but have never enjoyed doing things in the morning. I suggest

1) excercise
2) remove all caffeine from your diet and don't eat piles of sugar within 3 hours of bedtime
3) set your alarm for the same time each morning, putting it far enough from the bed that you can't shut if off without getting up, eventually getting up earlier WILL make you tired earlier

I am a night person too.
I go to bed totally hungry just o motivate myself to get up in the morning to eat breakfast.
I shower, I commute and yet I am still sleepy until about lunch.
After that I can stay awake for as long as I want to even if I did not get much sleep the day before.

I think you can go ask professionals because if you are in deed suffering from a disorder of some sort, at least you will have a proper excuse.

FizzyIzze:
I've been a night person for as long as I can remember. I did my first 'all nighter' when I was 10 years old. I've had a lot of trouble at jobs because I would stay up too late, so I started trying all sorts of sleeping drugs (including Ambien), none of which worked. That is, until I started taking melatonin, which should be available at any drug store.

Many people say that melatonin doesn't work but it does for me. I use the 3 milligram pills (mg, not micrograms, which is mcg). What happens is my brain may be active, but my eyes feel sleepy. I can't explain it better, sorry. In order for melatonin to work you cannot drink any alcohol. Avoid artificial light like televisions or PC monitors. Just turn everything off, take some melatonin, and 30 minutes later you should start feeling the effects.

The only "problem" with melatonin for me is that at best, I sleep for six hours. Some days I felt like it was still in my system, even during the afternoon. My solution was: first thing in the morning, do push-ups (or press-ups). Do them no matter what. You'll be surprised just how easily your eyes clear up after just ten push-ups.

Interesting, I'll look into it.

Johnny Impact:

AccursedTheory:
post="538.403072.16646289"]As for how to fix it... I don't know what to tell you. As some who works 12 hour days and frequently have to switch from days to nights, I just man the hell up and deal with it.

I doubt this will work for you.

I LOL'd. Call it like it is, brother!

OT: I disliked school for that reason also (among many others). I simply don't function well before about 10am. I made it through but have never enjoyed doing things in the morning. I suggest

1) exercise
2) remove all caffeine from your diet and don't eat piles of sugar within 3 hours of bedtime
3) set your alarm for the same time each morning, putting it far enough from the bed that you can't shut if off without getting up, eventually getting up earlier WILL make you tired earlier

I don't like coffee nor Coca-Cola, so I think my caffeine level is kept to the minimum, occasionally I eat sugars before sleeping, not everyday, I'll start being more careful with it.
The alarm thing doesn't work. The thing is, it's not like right after I stand up it becomes easy, no, I'm still really sleepy and could just go back to bed. I forgot to mention, my room is not isolated nor has heater, so it's really cold, which doesn't help at all, I mean, comfy, warm bed where I can sleep well, or being sleepy in a cold environment? Fortunately it's getting warmer here.

I also HATE getting out of bed, I find it harder to sleep at night whilst when I wake up in the morning I feel I could sleep for hours.
I have 3 alarms go off and place the clock on the other side of the room so I have to get out of bed.

I usually have a hot or cold shower and a coffee before I leave for work, just something to shock the system into waking up.
sitting in a classroom probably dosent help in my opinion.

I've worked night shifts before too, it sounds all good getting that long lay in but you just end up adjusting and its back to square one. That and you don't socialise and never get to enjoy some daylight.

so uhhm yeah try having a cold shower or something?

I've been struggling with this as well. The only advice I can give is:

1. Tell yourself to wake up early in the morning.
2. Exercise right after you get up.

I've really wanted to try waking up to some music, but I don't have anything to allow me to do that so...

Je ne sais pas. Sorry I couldn't resist.

Try going to sleep a little earlier and going to sleep at the same time every night. You could also use an alarm clock. It works for me. Hope this helps!

Try going to sleep a little earlier and going to sleep at the same time every night. You could also use an alarm clock. It works for me. Hope this helps!

Angie7F:
I go to bed totally hungry just o motivate myself to get up in the morning to eat breakfast.

Also - drinking a lot of water before bedtime so that you need to pee. If part of your problem is that your bed's too comfy, OP, then start making it less a less comfortable place to be in the morning.

Why not take online classes that way you can study whenever? Also when I was in college I strategically scheduled my classes for late in the morning or afternoon so I rarely had an 8 am class.

Anoni Mus:

I think navigating through Internet lots of hours per day, specially right before sleeping doesn't help at all, but I don't think that's the only problem.

That is actually significant enough to be the only problem. Internet keeps your brain stimulated. Stimulated brains won't sleep until complete physical exhaustion takes over, and physical exhaustion is very difficult for the body to get over, leading to your continued exhaustion during the daytime.

I used to be as tired as you describe yourself, if I needed to be in bed by 11:00, I'd turn my computer off at around 10:50, and lie in bed trying until I would finally get to sleep by 2 or 3.
But my third semester I couldn't schedule all of my classes for the afternoon, and the ones in the morning were kind of the biggies. So I tried turning off my computer and other electronics an hour before I planned to go to bed and would spend that time doing routine or relaxing things which my brain didn't need to concentrate on, and within fifteen to twenty minutes of lying down I'd be asleep, and completely lacking drowsiness during the day. Five years later and I would never go back to that previous sleep schedule again.

Also this,

Anoni Mus:

Sorry, but you're wrong, ok I have many faults, but that's a different story.
And I know it isn't just lack of motivation.

Is very contradictory with this

Anoni Mus:
I'm sick of this. Maybe I should find a specialist, but I'm too lazy and too procastinator to do that.

I've been in the same boat as you for pretty much my entire life, as far as having a hard time getting up early goes. My body, much like yours, tends towards a very late sleep schedule -- 5AM to 2 PM[1], basically going to bed an hour earlier than you want to and waking up at the same time. A big part of the problem was the erratic schedule of college, where you get up at a different time every day. What got me to a point where I could survive, if not thrive, on an early schedule was starting one that had me up at the same time every day during the week. I also have my first alarm go off a full hour before I need to be out of bed, with both an alarm clock and my phone going off at slightly staggered intervals. On mornings when I'm having a really tough time waking up, to the point that the constant staggered alarms aren't kickstarting my brain, I'll turn on the TV to get even more noise and light in the room after a few cycles with the alarm clocks. This got me off of the 5AM to 2PM sleep schedule I had been on, to being able to function on a 9PM to 5 AM schedule, and to kind of naturally hit something on the order of 1 or 2 AM to 9 or 10 AM when left with no need to be up in the morning.

The schedule, by the way, is for an internship at a high school. High schools start absurdly early, much worse than most jobs, which is one of the reasons I have so much trouble -- a 9 to 5 job would work just fine for me, even with my natural propensity to want to wake up a couple of hours before a job like that ends. You probably don't have full blown delayed phase sleep disorder so much as a lack of a need to get up at a consistent time most days. I can guarantee you that once you do go on a schedule that has you waking up at the same time of the morning 5+ days a week, it'll be easier, though probably still not easy. Point being, college schedules are weird with the way they stagger the classes, and it shouldn't be too big of an issue once you actually start work.

And by the way, I'm totally with you on this being a ridiculous thing to have to do every morning, but unless night shift is an option for you, that's kind of what you have to do. It sucks, but the options are pretty much A.)Get up early to go to work, B.)Change careers to something that lets you work third shift, or C.) give up entirely and become a hobo. Option A is the only valid option for most people, although I'll admit to eyeing option B from time to time.

[1] If you only know the 24 hour clock, add 12 to any number I list as PM to get the time in the 24 hour system, and just leave anything listed as AM alone.

Psykoma:

Anoni Mus:

I think navigating through Internet lots of hours per day, specially right before sleeping doesn't help at all, but I don't think that's the only problem.

That is actually significant enough to be the only problem. Internet keeps your brain stimulated. Stimulated brains won't sleep until complete physical exhaustion takes over, and physical exhaustion is very difficult for the body to get over, leading to your continued exhaustion during the daytime.

I used to be as tired as you describe yourself, if I needed to be in bed by 11:00, I'd turn my computer off at around 10:50, and lie in bed trying until I would finally get to sleep by 2 or 3.
But my third semester I couldn't schedule all of my classes for the afternoon, and the ones in the morning were kind of the biggies. So I tried turning off my computer and other electronics an hour before I planned to go to bed and would spend that time doing routine or relaxing things which my brain didn't need to concentrate on, and within fifteen to twenty minutes of lying down I'd be asleep, and completely lacking drowsiness during the day. Five years later and I would never go back to that previous sleep schedule again.

Also this,

Anoni Mus:

Sorry, but you're wrong, ok I have many faults, but that's a different story.
And I know it isn't just lack of motivation.

Is very contradictory with this

Anoni Mus:
I'm sick of this. Maybe I should find a specialist, but I'm too lazy and too procastinator to do that.

Thanks for the useful answer :)
Now I just need to find an activity that doesn't involve computer, which is harder than it looks, maybe reading.

And it's not contradictory because I said it isn't just lack of motivation, meaning lack of motivation is a part of it, not everythin.

Owyn_Merrilin:
I've been in the same boat as you for pretty much my entire life, as far as having a hard time getting up early goes. My body, much like yours, tends towards a very late sleep schedule -- 5AM to 2 PM[1], basically going to bed an hour earlier than you want to and waking up at the same time. A big part of the problem was the erratic schedule of college, where you get up at a different time every day. What got me to a point where I could survive, if not thrive, on an early schedule was starting one that had me up at the same time every day during the week. I also have my first alarm go off a full hour before I need to be out of bed, with both an alarm clock and my phone going off at slightly staggered intervals. On mornings when I'm having a really tough time waking up, to the point that the constant staggered alarms aren't kickstarting my brain, I'll turn on the TV to get even more noise and light in the room after a few cycles with the alarm clocks. This got me off of the 5AM to 2PM sleep schedule I had been on, to being able to function on a 9PM to 5 AM schedule, and to kind of naturally hit something on the order of 1 or 2 AM to 9 or 10 AM when left with no need to be up in the morning.

The schedule, by the way, is for an internship at a high school. High schools start absurdly early, much worse than most jobs, which is one of the reasons I have so much trouble -- a 9 to 5 job would work just fine for me, even with my natural propensity to want to wake up a couple of hours before a job like that ends. You probably don't have full blown delayed phase sleep disorder so much as a lack of a need to get up at a consistent time most days. I can guarantee you that once you do go on a schedule that has you waking up at the same time of the morning 5+ days a week, it'll be easier, though probably still not easy. Point being, college schedules are weird with the way they stagger the classes, and it shouldn't be too big of an issue once you actually start work.

And by the way, I'm totally with you on this being a ridiculous thing to have to do every morning, but unless night shift is an option for you, that's kind of what you have to do. It sucks, but the options are pretty much A.)Get up early to go to work, B.)Change careers to something that lets you work third shift, or C.) give up entirely and become a hobo. Option A is the only valid option for most people, although I'll admit to eyeing option B from time to time.

lots of alarms doesn't seem healthy.
I'm actually afraid on going with option C.

[1] If you only know the 24 hour clock, add 12 to any number I list as PM to get the time in the 24 hour system, and just leave anything listed as AM alone.

Whenever someone has sleeping problems or cannot wake up easily early they always aimlessly elaborate on how they aren't "born this way" or that they are "night persons". The fact of the matter is that if you go to sleep at 2 AM you simply cannot wake up early, and even if you do, you cannot function normally throughout the day. Here's the deal though. For better or worse, our society decided that the best time to wake up and do stuff is in the morning. (The fact that we are a diurnal species also helped)
The most popular reactions I get are: A) I can't get to sleep earlier or B) I tried a normal sleeping schedule and it didn't work for me. My answers are A) Yes you can B) Of course it didn't work, you can't expect to f#$k up your internal body clock for years on end and expect to get back on track that easily! Our body is incredibly adaptive but it needs time and patience.

I might sound a bit bold but I'm afraid that's the way it is.

Anoni Mus:
-snip-

You can take steps to adjust your sleep cycle, but it requires that you be arsed to do it. Your sleep patterns become a deadly cycle--once you get settled into one, it's hard to get out because getting out requires that you function outside what your body wants--and it resists. It takes discipline and practice, but you can get your body oriented to waking up earlier.

First and foremost, it requires that you go to bed earlier. If you go to bed at 2 or 4 AM, of course you're going to find it difficult to get up at 6 or 7. Your body likes regularity, so you're going to have to do this night after night to get it right. It probably won't work for a while, but after a time you'll become so exhausted your body will have no choice but to sleep if you hit the sack at 9PM. This happened to me very recently: Over spring break I went on a mission trip, and every day I got up at either 5:30 or 6 AM. Before the trip, even if I went to bed early I would still be woken up by my alarm at 7. Now, I'm naturally wide awake at 6. The past three days I have beat my alarm by 15 or 20 minutes and got up before it even went off.

Given your change is more extreme and it seems you've been at this sleep pattern longer than I have, your change will naturally take longer, and it will probably suck more. But if you're going to let your life be run by your sleep schedule because changing was tough, then just be prepared for those consequences.

If you're really convinced it's not you and you have those sleep diseases you mentioned, then see a doctor, get it diagnosed, and get some info from them on what you can do about it. If your inability to change your sleep cycle is the disease's fault then fine, but unless you've got another disease that makes you unable to schedule and attend doctor's appointments then there is no excuse for claiming you have a disease without being properly diagnosed.

To the people saying he should just man up: Right, so anyone that doesn't fit into what you deem is normal or at least a condition recognized by you, should just man up right?

To Anoni Mus:
Sorry, but you really are making excuses. That's not saying that you don't have a sleeping problem, but making excuses for it won't help you.

Problem is, I have the same problem and I don't know how to fix it either. Luckily I get welfare (for other reasons, by the way) and don't have to work from 9 to 5~6 in a normal job. I don't get a lot of income, but at least I get to pick my own work hours doing volunteer work. Which mostly amounts to working from 11:30 'till 5 in the winter, and 11:30 'till 8~9 in the summer. (It's outside work that needs sunlight so I can see what I do.) So basically, either find a job that has more flexible hours or keep on doing what you do now for money I guess?

Jobs that I can think of that we have over here are taxi driver, night guard, post office worker (like sorting mail and such) or maybe a store that stays open 24 hours a day.

Owyn_Merrilin:
-snip-

Basically this whole post.

I'm like you guys, my sleep cycle strongly tends to sleeping at dawn and waking up after noon. This is just something I've grown to accept, and deal with in the long term.

The only thing that gets me consistently sleeping at "normal times" is the fact that a 9-5 job forces you to. On weekends my sleep cycle messes up again so I usually have to sacrifice sleep by waking early on Mondays and stay perpetually tired throughout the week until I can catch up on Saturday. It's a wretched existence but it's the only way. I'm allergic to caffeine. But eventually I get tired enough that I can sleep earlier than usual. It's actually a lot better now that I exercise more.

OP, the issue with you is probably more about your (lack of) motivation to attend school, than anything else. With school, the consequences of not attending are not as scary as losing a job/income/getting yelled at by a boss for sleeping in, so it makes it easier for you to physically refuse to get up.

I know you're in a difficult situation right now but my advice would be to just dive in and try to find a job straight away. Even just a part-time one. No more delaying with classes or excuses to take more classes. You know it doesn't work for you. Depending on what career you're trying to get into, school may be necessary, but try to look into options where you can get into a commitment that really physically forces you to get up and do stuff.

 

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