Alien, unwelcome thoughts

I don't quite know how to explain things, but I want both sex and companionship, and I shouldn't. It's not likely that anyone wants me, that anyone ever could, and it's wrong to feel things for people who don't feel them back. Everyone says it now. Everyone on here, everyone everywhere. People who feel things for people who don't feel them back are creepy assholes, that's what they all say. If I confessed to such things, they'd get rid of me.

It doesn't make any logical sense. Such feelings will only bring me misery, but they won't go away. Jacking off only works for the physical, and only for a little while. And that's bad as well. It isn't just the church. They all look down on it. Not as much as feeling things for people who won't feel them back, but they still hate it. I tried aversion therapy on myself, I bit myself whenever I felt things, but it didn't work. I tried just staying away from people, and that only made it worse. I tried to get proper, professional, help, but they're not listening. They never listen until it's too late. I don't want to be a bad person but it won't go away.

My friends recommended me this site, but it doesn't make sense.

http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2014/01/starting-from-zero/

It all seems like good advice, but how do you change your brain? How? How can you tell yourself you're worth something, when you know you're worth jack shit because you're 23 and nobody ever wanted to sleep with you, everyone else has, so I must be worthless. The evidence is there for the bad things I can say about myself, there's no evidence that I'm worth anything.

And I hate it when they act like I haven't thought about things before. I know I have to change, I know "myself" isn't good enough, but it won't go away, it won't change, no matter how much I punish myself for my mistakes, they keep happening.

I dunno how anyone can help. I know it either has to go away or I have to become someone that somebody would actually want to be with, but I've no idea how to do either. But it has to go away, I don't want to be a bad person.

It sounds to me like you're putting too much value (and plenty of adolescents with you) in having sex. It's the kind of thing that you really look forward to and when it happens you go "Oh... That's it?" and you feel stupid for having made such a big deal out of it.
It's really not worth getting depressed over, and believe it or not, you're not alone.
The thing is, the only people who want to talk about their virginity are the ones that lose it, right? You never (or rarely) hear of the people who are still virgins, who are probably more numerous than you think.

Someone'll come along, probably when you're not looking, but being depressed isn't going to help you. The better you feel in your own skin, the more attractive you are.

Try and take selfworth out of other things, like a job, a hobby, or just ambitions.
You sound like you have pretty low selfesteem too (maybe as a result of what you described?) so why not work on that? Maybe do some sports/go to the gym.

Also, feeling things for others that they do not feel back doesn't make you a creepy asshole.
As long as you can accept that if a person doesn't have the same feelings for you, you need to move on.
There's plenty of fish in the bowl.

Hope this helps.

SimpleThunda':
It sounds to me like you're putting too much value (and plenty of adolescents with you) in having sex. It's the kind of thing that you really look forward to and when it happens you go "Oh... That's it?" and you feel stupid for having made such a big deal out of it.
It's really not worth getting depressed over, and believe it or not, you're not alone.
The thing is, the only people who want to talk about their virginity are the ones that lose it, right? You never (or rarely) hear of the people who are still virgins, who are probably more numerous than you think.

That's the thing, I don't want to feel like it means so much, but I can't make it go away.

Someone'll come along, probably when you're not looking, but being depressed isn't going to help you. The better you feel in your own skin, the more attractive you are.

Try and take selfworth out of other things, like a job, a hobby, or just ambitions.
You sound like you have pretty low selfesteem too (maybe as a result of what you described?) so why not work on that? Maybe do some sports/go to the gym.

I'm terrible at all sports, and I can't go to the gym. Everyone at the gym looks good. Even my friends who say they need to lose weight look good. They look good, and I'm hideous, so they'll hurt me. That's the way it always worked.

Also, feeling things for others that they do not feel back doesn't make you a creepy asshole.
As long as you can accept that if a person doesn't have the same feelings for you, you need to move on.
There's plenty of fish in the bowl.

Hope this helps.

But they all say it, constantly, all the time. Even on this site, anytime someone mentions it they call the person an asshole. It doesn't make sense, it's not fair, but they're the majority, the normal people, so they get to decide what's right and wrong, and they'll hurt me if I feel things for people who don't reciprocate them.

Doclector:
snip

Two things;

Firstly, people on this site are assholes (including myself at times), don't take what these people say too seriously.

Secondly, if you want to change the way you look, you're going to have to start somewhere. All beginnings are hard, but if you want to change your self-image, you gotta work on yourself. If you're too uncomfortable to go to the gym, then buy some weights in the store and do it at home. Or go walking/running outside.

In any case, stop giving yourself excuses. If you want to feel better, you're going to have to make some changes in your lifestyle. Sitting on your ass and moaning about it has never helped anyone. The way you feel right now is a product of your lifestyle, not a product of who you are.

SimpleThunda':

Doclector:
snip

Two things;

Firstly, people on this site are assholes (including myself at times), don't take what these people say too seriously.

Secondly, if you want to change the way you look, you're going to have to start somewhere. All beginnings are hard, but if you want to change your self-image, you gotta work on yourself. If you're too uncomfortable to go to the gym, then buy some weights in the store and do it at home. Or go walking/running outside.

In any case, stop giving yourself excuses. If you want to feel better, you're going to have to make some changes in your lifestyle. Sitting on your ass and moaning about it has never helped anyone. The way you feel right now is a product of your lifestyle, not a product of who you are.

I am. I couldn't buy weights, I didn't know what to get, but I'm doing press ups and sit ups and stretches, everything I could find from the internet that I could do. It's not working fast enough. I can't go running, they'll look at me and laugh and hurt me. Even if I do get thin, I'll still be ugly and I still wouldn't have anything to offer anyone. I need to sort that out, everyone says it, but they won't tell me how. They keep saying that I'm funny and smart, but those things don't matter. Nobody cares about them. They shouldn't. It goes against instinct to care about them, I'm the one that's faulty, I should be the one who changes. I need to be more charming, or I need to learn how to dance, but that would have to come after getting thinner. I'd still be ugly, but as it is, me dancing is laughable. It's not happening fast enough. Everyone else succeeded at this before me, and soon, everyone will hate me for being so old and still worthless, and I'll have to deal with these feelings alone for the rest of my life. If only I could just make them go away.

I've noticed from your post history that you seem to have (forgive the bluntness) a bit of a self-loathing issue.

I don't know you as a person of course, but for what it's worth I think you're a more intelligent and capable person than you give yourself credit for.

If you want to change your appearance, change your sex life, and change your life then I think the first thing you have to do is stop comparing yourself to other people. Everyone is unique, including you. No one else in the world has had your particular problems, just like you have had no one else's particular problems. It's just a matter of trying to fix your own problems one step at a time.

One last thing: what's your diet like? I find eating the right foods can really help a person develop a better frame of mind. I'm no nutritionist, but I do know that I feel more pro-active, energetic, and happier when I eat well.

Doclector:
I am. I couldn't buy weights, I didn't know what to get, but I'm doing press ups and sit ups and stretches, everything I could find from the internet that I could do. It's not working fast enough. I can't go running, they'll look at me and laugh and hurt me. Even if I do get thin, I'll still be ugly and I still wouldn't have anything to offer anyone. I need to sort that out, everyone says it, but they won't tell me how. They keep saying that I'm funny and smart, but those things don't matter. Nobody cares about them. They shouldn't. It goes against instinct to care about them, I'm the one that's faulty, I should be the one who changes. I need to be more charming, or I need to learn how to dance, but that would have to come after getting thinner. I'd still be ugly, but as it is, me dancing is laughable. It's not happening fast enough. Everyone else succeeded at this before me, and soon, everyone will hate me for being so old and still worthless, and I'll have to deal with these feelings alone for the rest of my life. If only I could just make them go away.

I'd say you're on the right track man. You just gotta have patience and work hard. If you need to lose weight, do some cycling or running (go out in the woods, where you can run/cycle on your own, since you seem to have a problem with public place). Sit ups and press ups will give you some upper body and core strength.
These sorta things take time, but will pay off in the end.

If you want weights but don't know what to get; Just get 2 dumbells with a bunch of weight disks. Small weight disks like 2kg - 5kg. You can virtually hit any area you want with 2 dumbells, you'll work on balance, and it's a bit easier to stash than a large bar.

Goddammit, I was going to give some nice supportive advice but your self-pity is radiating from my screen with such intensity that I feel compelled to either give you a good hard slap round the chops, or the phone number for The Samaritans. Maybe both.

You're not as ugly as you claim you are. You aren't the oldest virgin on the planet. You're not unlovable. People don't universally hate you. If you went jogging or to the gym, probably nothing bad would happen. You could learn to dance or sidestep the issue with ease. If you looked hard enough, you'd find somebody to be with.

If you're honest with yourself, I think you'll find that every statement in the previous paragraph is true, and you know it. However, change is difficult, and worse that that, it's scary. It's easier to stick with what you know and what you're good at - even if "what you're good at" is being depressed and self-deprecating. It even makes logical sense: your negative feelings result in a lack of positive action, which gives you plenty to feel negative about, and the cycle perpetuates.

I don't think you're ready for a relationship yet as in your current state it'd be one-sided. A relationship should be two people mutually supporting each other, not one person using the other as a crutch. Get yourself in order first by breaking this negative spiral you're in. Ironically, you'll be in the best position to get a girlfriend when you're comfortably independent and no longer need or particularly want a girlfriend (desperation repels women, confidence attracts them). At the moment you're saying "my life is shit, there's a hole in my existence, and I've decided that hole could be filled by a nice girlfriend who will validate and flatter me, ergo I need a girlfriend or there's no hope for me" - don't focus on getting a girlfriend to the point of distraction, because in truth there are plenty of other things that will fill that hole.

Batou667:
Goddammit, I was going to give some nice supportive advice but your self-pity is radiating from my screen with such intensity that I feel compelled to either give you a good hard slap round the chops, or the phone number for The Samaritans. Maybe both.

You're not as ugly as you claim you are. You aren't the oldest virgin on the planet. You're not unlovable. People don't universally hate you. If you went jogging or to the gym, probably nothing bad would happen. You could learn to dance or sidestep the issue with ease. If you looked hard enough, you'd find somebody to be with.

If you're honest with yourself, I think you'll find that every statement in the previous paragraph is true, and you know it. However, change is difficult, and worse that that, it's scary. It's easier to stick with what you know and what you're good at - even if "what you're good at" is being depressed and self-deprecating. It even makes logical sense: your negative feelings result in a lack of positive action, which gives you plenty to feel negative about, and the cycle perpetuates.

I don't think you're ready for a relationship yet as in your current state it'd be one-sided. A relationship should be two people mutually supporting each other, not one person using the other as a crutch. Get yourself in order first by breaking this negative spiral you're in. Ironically, you'll be in the best position to get a girlfriend when you're comfortably independent and no longer need or particularly want a girlfriend (desperation repels women, confidence attracts them). At the moment you're saying "my life is shit, there's a hole in my existence, and I've decided that hole could be filled by a nice girlfriend who will validate and flatter me, ergo I need a girlfriend or there's no hope for me" - don't focus on getting a girlfriend to the point of distraction, because in truth there are plenty of other things that will fill that hole.

I know, but by then it might be too late. Everyone would hate me if I was thirty and they found out I was a virgin. I know I need to fix the problems first, but I need to fix them faster than I am currently. They're all racing ahead of me, they've all been doing that for years, if I don't catch up, of course they'll hate me. Everyone hates a failure. That just makes logical sense.

And what if I do meet someone in the future? I am supposed to believe that someone would have such low standards as to settle for a virgin, at that age? If I manage to fool her, which would be a horrible thing to do to someone I supposedly care about, she'll just find out when we have sex, and then she'll leave and laugh about the whole thing with her friends.

I get it, but if I stop hating myself, how I am supposed to change? If I'm not aware of how unnattractive I am, how I am supposed to prevent talking to someone who'll hate me for trying to out of my league? There's more at stake than just humiliation. At best, my friends wouldn't let me around them ever again. At worst, I'd be in for the beating of a lifetime. There's normal people everywhere, if they see me trying that shit, they'll hurt me. It's what they always did whenever I got something wrong.

I know I hate myself and everything you said is valid, but it's not what I have to do, it's how. How do I shut up the voice in my head? How do I get everything right?

SimpleThunda':

Doclector:
I am. I couldn't buy weights, I didn't know what to get, but I'm doing press ups and sit ups and stretches, everything I could find from the internet that I could do. It's not working fast enough. I can't go running, they'll look at me and laugh and hurt me. Even if I do get thin, I'll still be ugly and I still wouldn't have anything to offer anyone. I need to sort that out, everyone says it, but they won't tell me how. They keep saying that I'm funny and smart, but those things don't matter. Nobody cares about them. They shouldn't. It goes against instinct to care about them, I'm the one that's faulty, I should be the one who changes. I need to be more charming, or I need to learn how to dance, but that would have to come after getting thinner. I'd still be ugly, but as it is, me dancing is laughable. It's not happening fast enough. Everyone else succeeded at this before me, and soon, everyone will hate me for being so old and still worthless, and I'll have to deal with these feelings alone for the rest of my life. If only I could just make them go away.

I'd say you're on the right track man. You just gotta have patience and work hard. If you need to lose weight, do some cycling or running (go out in the woods, where you can run/cycle on your own, since you seem to have a problem with public place). Sit ups and press ups will give you some upper body and core strength.
These sorta things take time, but will pay off in the end.

If you want weights but don't know what to get; Just get 2 dumbells with a bunch of weight disks. Small weight disks like 2kg - 5kg. You can virtually hit any area you want with 2 dumbells, you'll work on balance, and it's a bit easier to stash than a large bar.

Well, that helps. There isn't any woods around here, though. Any idea where the best place to get those dumbells are? I ain't exactly broke, but of course, I'll want to hit the balance between cost and quality.

Lethos:
I've noticed from your post history that you seem to have (forgive the bluntness) a bit of a self-loathing issue.

I don't know you as a person of course, but for what it's worth I think you're a more intelligent and capable person than you give yourself credit for.

If you want to change your appearance, change your sex life, and change your life then I think the first thing you have to do is stop comparing yourself to other people. Everyone is unique, including you. No one else in the world has had your particular problems, just like you have had no one else's particular problems. It's just a matter of trying to fix your own problems one step at a time.

One last thing: what's your diet like? I find eating the right foods can really help a person develop a better frame of mind. I'm no nutritionist, but I do know that I feel more pro-active, energetic, and happier when I eat well.

Not great. I can't find many fruit or vegatables that I can manage to swallow. I think it's more the texture than anything, it feels inconsistent, like it isn't meant to be eaten. Which is crazy, but you've probably picked up that I'm not exactly the most mentally balanced person. How do I stop comparing myself to other people? After all, other people would be considered the competition. If they're better than me, then of course nobody would want me. They'd just get the better version. I mean, two games in a shop. One is the standard edition, the other is the limited. Both are the same price. Which one do you get? It doesn't make sense that someone would go for me if they could have someone better.

Doclector:
I know, but by then it might be too late. Everyone would hate me if I was thirty and they found out I was a virgin.

As a virgin by choice, I can most definitely tell you that this line of thinking is idiotic and the result of watching too much porn.

I know I need to fix the problems first, but I need to fix them faster than I am currently. They're all racing ahead of me, they've all been doing that for years, if I don't catch up, of course they'll hate me. Everyone hates a failure. That just makes logical sense.

And what if I do meet someone in the future? I am supposed to believe that someone would have such low standards as to settle for a virgin, at that age? If I manage to fool her, which would be a horrible thing to do to someone I supposedly care about, she'll just find out when we have sex, and then she'll leave and laugh about the whole thing with her friends.

Dude.

You're paranoid.

Like, honest-to-God paranoid.

Like, you-should-get-some-medication-for-that paranoid.

Read back what you wrote. You keep referring to "They", as if the world is a collective that's out to get you. I have no idea where you get the idea that "everyone hates a failure", but if that was true, there would be no philanthropy. And there's that ridiculous "everyone hates a virgin" shit again. You've got it in your head that everyone's out banging everyone and you're "missing out". Again, I bet that comes from watching too much porn. No serious relationship EVER broke up because the first round of sex wasn't great. If that was the cause of a breakup, then the relationship was doomed anyways.

I get it, but if I stop hating myself, how I am supposed to change? If I'm not aware of how unnattractive I am, how I am supposed to prevent talking to someone who'll hate me for trying to out of my league? There's more at stake than just humiliation. At best, my friends wouldn't let me around them ever again. At worst, I'd be in for the beating of a lifetime. There's normal people everywhere, if they see me trying that shit, they'll hurt me. It's what they always did whenever I got something wrong.

This is literally the most toxic and horrifying thing I've ever read in this forum aimed at ANYTHING, let alone oneself.

I'm honestly scared of how you view yourself now.

In the above quote, you've revealed that you view yourself as a sub-human gremlin that everyone wants to stomp, and the only way that you can stop them from stomping you is hating yourself as hard as humanly possible.

Psychologist. Now. You know as well as I do that the above statement is ridiculous nonsense that you've concocted as a defense mechanism gone horrifically wrong, but it's choking you now, and it needs to go. I'm genuinely afraid of what you're going to do to yourself if this keeps up.

You can't improve yourself if you hate yourself. You can only improve yourself if you believe you're worth improving. Which, for the record, every human is. This isn't some sunny-day wishy-washy statement either, one of the most interesting traits in humans is how they can improve themselves.

I know I hate myself and everything you said is valid, but it's not what I have to do, it's how. How do I shut up the voice in my head? How do I get everything right?

You don't get everything right. You fail, and then you try again until it goes right.

As for the voice in your head, I recommend psychologist-subscribed medication. It's too firmly rooted by now, and it's sapping your ability to shut it up manually.

Not even joking, man. Between this thread and the downslide we've all seen you on for a long time now? You've got to see a psychologist, right away. There's no reason to not see one, they've seen significantly worse cases than you.

Making excuses is all well and good, but you need to have a hell of a backup plan. At this point, treating your mental health is your hell of a backup plan.

One more thing:

How do I stop comparing myself to other people? After all, other people would be considered the competition. If they're better than me, then of course nobody would want me. They'd just get the better version. I mean, two games in a shop. One is the standard edition, the other is the limited. Both are the same price. Which one do you get? It doesn't make sense that someone would go for me if they could have someone better.

You act as if some people are inherently better than others. There's a reason we all hate Ayn Rand around here.

lacktheknack:

Doclector:
I know, but by then it might be too late. Everyone would hate me if I was thirty and they found out I was a virgin.

As a virgin by choice, I can most definitely tell you that this line of thinking is idiotic and the result of watching too much porn.

I know I need to fix the problems first, but I need to fix them faster than I am currently. They're all racing ahead of me, they've all been doing that for years, if I don't catch up, of course they'll hate me. Everyone hates a failure. That just makes logical sense.

And what if I do meet someone in the future? I am supposed to believe that someone would have such low standards as to settle for a virgin, at that age? If I manage to fool her, which would be a horrible thing to do to someone I supposedly care about, she'll just find out when we have sex, and then she'll leave and laugh about the whole thing with her friends.

Dude.

You're paranoid.

Like, honest-to-God paranoid.

Like, you-should-get-some-medication-for-that paranoid.

Read back what you wrote. You keep referring to "They", as if the world is a collective that's out to get you. I have no idea where you get the idea that "everyone hates a failure", but if that was true, there would be no philanthropy. And there's that ridiculous "everyone hates a virgin" shit again. You've got it in your head that everyone's out banging everyone and you're "missing out". Again, I bet that comes from watching too much porn. No serious relationship EVER broke up because the first round of sex wasn't great. If that was the cause of a breakup, then the relationship was doomed anyways.

I get it, but if I stop hating myself, how I am supposed to change? If I'm not aware of how unnattractive I am, how I am supposed to prevent talking to someone who'll hate me for trying to out of my league? There's more at stake than just humiliation. At best, my friends wouldn't let me around them ever again. At worst, I'd be in for the beating of a lifetime. There's normal people everywhere, if they see me trying that shit, they'll hurt me. It's what they always did whenever I got something wrong.

This is literally the most toxic and horrifying thing I've ever read in this forum aimed at ANYTHING, let alone oneself.

I'm honestly scared of how you view yourself now.

In the above quote, you've revealed that you view yourself as a sub-human gremlin that everyone wants to stomp, and the only way that you can stop them from stomping you is hating yourself as hard as humanly possible.

Psychologist. Now. You know as well as I do that the above statement is ridiculous nonsense that you've concocted as a defense mechanism gone horrifically wrong, but it's choking you now, and it needs to go. I'm genuinely afraid of what you're going to do to yourself if this keeps up.

You can't improve yourself if you hate yourself. You can only improve yourself if you believe you're worth improving. Which, for the record, every human is. This isn't some sunny-day wishy-washy statement either, one of the most interesting traits in humans is how they can improve themselves.

I know I hate myself and everything you said is valid, but it's not what I have to do, it's how. How do I shut up the voice in my head? How do I get everything right?

You don't get everything right. You fail, and then you try again until it goes right.

As for the voice in your head, I recommend psychologist-subscribed medication. It's too firmly rooted by now, and it's sapping your ability to shut it up manually.

Not even joking, man. Between this thread and the downslide we've all seen you on for a long time now? You've got to see a psychologist, right away. There's no reason to not see one, they've seen significantly worse cases than you.

Making excuses is all well and good, but you need to have a hell of a backup plan. At this point, treating your mental health is your hell of a backup plan.

One more thing:

How do I stop comparing myself to other people? After all, other people would be considered the competition. If they're better than me, then of course nobody would want me. They'd just get the better version. I mean, two games in a shop. One is the standard edition, the other is the limited. Both are the same price. Which one do you get? It doesn't make sense that someone would go for me if they could have someone better.

You act as if some people are inherently better than others. There's a reason we all hate Ayn Rand around here.

I don't actually watch a whole lot of porn, but I've been trying to get a pychologist for ages. The doctors won't listen. None of them ever did. They just assume because I technically am functioning, that I don't need help, I guess. It's always been that attitude. They don't help with these sort of things until someone's already been hurt. Honestly, I had resigned myself to living with these problems. And they're not so much inherently better than me, they've got some advantages like not having autism and being born more naturally attractive, but it's more that they all have one fuckload of a head start on me.

Doclector:
I don't actually watch a whole lot of porn, but I've been trying to get a pychologist for ages. The doctors won't listen. None of them ever did. They just assume because I technically am functioning, that I don't need help, I guess. It's always been that attitude. They don't help with these sort of things until someone's already been hurt. Honestly, I had resigned myself to living with these problems. And they're not so much inherently better than me, they've got some advantages like not having autism and being born more naturally attractive, but it's more that they all have one fuckload of a head start on me.

How about a psychiatrist, then? Around here, you don't need a doctor's note to walk into a psychiatrist's office.

Also, as I said, making excuses is fine, but you need a hell of a backup plan. Your excuse is "everyone has a headstart" (I don't think there's actually a finish line, but whatever), so what's your backup plan?

lacktheknack:

Doclector:
I don't actually watch a whole lot of porn, but I've been trying to get a pychologist for ages. The doctors won't listen. None of them ever did. They just assume because I technically am functioning, that I don't need help, I guess. It's always been that attitude. They don't help with these sort of things until someone's already been hurt. Honestly, I had resigned myself to living with these problems. And they're not so much inherently better than me, they've got some advantages like not having autism and being born more naturally attractive, but it's more that they all have one fuckload of a head start on me.

How about a psychiatrist, then? Around here, you don't need a doctor's note to walk into a psychiatrist's office.

Also, as I said, making excuses is fine, but you need a hell of a backup plan. Your excuse is "everyone has a headstart" (I don't think there's actually a finish line, but whatever), so what's your backup plan?

I didn't know you could just walk into a psychiatrist without being referred. I do live in England. I don't know where you live, but if it's america, chances are, things are different. If not, it might be worth looking into. Private healthcare isn't an option. I'm a student at the moment, there's no way in hell I could afford it, fuck, way I hear it, most people can't afford it who have all their shit together.

And there isn't a finish line, my point is that almost everyone I know who isn't celibate by choice is far better at this than me. Far better at most things. I don't know what my backup plan is, I'm just trying to fix everything, trying not to be so worthless. If I wasn't so worthless, I wouldn't have to beat myself up everytime I feel attracted to anyone. Even then, I shouldn't expect women to like me just because I like them, but at least then if I told them, it wouldn't be an insult, it wouldn't utterly ruin their day to know that something so horrible was ever attracted to them. So the way I see it, I have two choices. I somehow kill my ability to feel attracted to anyone, or I make myself into someone who someone else might actually be attracted to. Someone worth something. The second option sounds healthier, but it also sounds less likely. Especially as I'd need to fix my mental issues.

Doclector:
I didn't know you could just walk into a psychiatrist without being referred. I do live in England. I don't know where you live, but if it's america, chances are, things are different. If not, it might be worth looking into. Private healthcare isn't an option. I'm a student at the moment, there's no way in hell I could afford it, fuck, way I hear it, most people can't afford it who have all their shit together.

Canada here, might be worth asking.

And there isn't a finish line, my point is that almost everyone I know who isn't celibate by choice is far better at this than me. Far better at most things. I don't know what my backup plan is, I'm just trying to fix everything, trying not to be so worthless.

Well, allow me to show you your problem:

If I wasn't so worthless,

Stop.

but at least then if I told them, it wouldn't be an insult,

Stop.

it wouldn't utterly ruin their day to know that something so horrible was ever attracted to them.

STOP.

So the way I see it, I have two choices. I somehow kill my ability to feel attracted to anyone, or I make myself into someone who someone else might actually be attracted to. Someone worth something. The second option sounds healthier, but it also sounds less likely. Especially as I'd need to fix my mental issues.

Killing your libido will only worsen your mental health. If you really need a referral to get mental help, then when you're next in the doctor's office to get one, refuse to leave until you get one. Keep asking. If they toss you out, immediately make a new appointment to get a referral. They will figure out what you already know eventually.

The humiliation of being thrown out of a doctors office can't possibly be worse than continuing the way you're going.

Doclector:
I don't quite know how to explain things, but I want both sex and companionship, and I shouldn't. It's not likely that anyone wants me, that anyone ever could, and it's wrong to feel things for people who don't feel them back. Everyone says it now. Everyone on here, everyone everywhere. People who feel things for people who don't feel them back are creepy assholes, that's what they all say. If I confessed to such things, they'd get rid of me.

It doesn't make any logical sense. Such feelings will only bring me misery, but they won't go away. Jacking off only works for the physical, and only for a little while. And that's bad as well. It isn't just the church. They all look down on it. Not as much as feeling things for people who won't feel them back, but they still hate it. I tried aversion therapy on myself, I bit myself whenever I felt things, but it didn't work. I tried just staying away from people, and that only made it worse. I tried to get proper, professional, help, but they're not listening. They never listen until it's too late. I don't want to be a bad person but it won't go away.

My friends recommended me this site, but it doesn't make sense.

http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2014/01/starting-from-zero/

It all seems like good advice, but how do you change your brain? How? How can you tell yourself you're worth something, when you know you're worth jack shit because you're 23 and nobody ever wanted to sleep with you, everyone else has, so I must be worthless. The evidence is there for the bad things I can say about myself, there's no evidence that I'm worth anything.

And I hate it when they act like I haven't thought about things before. I know I have to change, I know "myself" isn't good enough, but it won't go away, it won't change, no matter how much I punish myself for my mistakes, they keep happening.

I dunno how anyone can help. I know it either has to go away or I have to become someone that somebody would actually want to be with, but I've no idea how to do either. But it has to go away, I don't want to be a bad person.

Howdy, dude.

You need to dial it down with the persecution complex. Not everyone is out to get you, and I've been on this site for ages and I don't think I've ever seen anyone tell you that you should not want companionship or sex.

There's nothing wrong with feeling something for someone who doesn't feel the same way, and I doubt there's anyone on here who has always had everyone they ever fancied. The only wrong thing is trying to still pursue and/or manipulate such person when they've made clear they're not down for it. If you're not doing that- they're not talking about you.

And seriously- how much better do you think you would feel if you were not a virgin?
I assure you nothing really changes when you lose your V-card except you stop stressing about it.
As for relationships- are you comfortable talking to women? Do you know many women? Are you trying to meet women?

You do seriously need to improve your self-image.
As to how to do it, first of all, stop beating yourself up.
Decide not to be down on yourself, and when you catch yourself thinking something bad about yourself, think, no, we decided we're not gonna do that anymore.

Sorry it took so long to respond. I've been busy with university work. I apologise for being so frantic. It happens sometimes, I just start panicking, and can't stop thinking about all the things I have to fix about myself.

Phasmal:

Doclector:
Snip

Howdy, dude.

You need to dial it down with the persecution complex. Not everyone is out to get you, and I've been on this site for ages and I don't think I've ever seen anyone tell you that you should not want companionship or sex.

There's nothing wrong with feeling something for someone who doesn't feel the same way, and I doubt there's anyone on here who has always had everyone they ever fancied. The only wrong thing is trying to still pursue and/or manipulate such person when they've made clear they're not down for it. If you're not doing that- they're not talking about you.

And seriously- how much better do you think you would feel if you were not a virgin?
I assure you nothing really changes when you lose your V-card except you stop stressing about it.
As for relationships- are you comfortable talking to women? Do you know many women? Are you trying to meet women?

You do seriously need to improve your self-image.
As to how to do it, first of all, stop beating yourself up.
Decide not to be down on yourself, and when you catch yourself thinking something bad about yourself, think, no, we decided we're not gonna do that anymore.

What would change is exactly that. I could finally stop stressing about it. Stop being the butt of everyone's sex jokes behind my back. Stop feeling like if I met someone who I cared about, who cared about me, my options would range between telling her and her not wanting to see me in the first place, and lying about it and having her leave as soon as she finds out. It would be just unfair to expect someone to want a man with no experience at all.

I know plenty of women. Only a few of which are single, all of those way, way out of my league. I talk to women as friends a lot. I don't have a problem with that, but when other feelings get involved, the risk paralyzes me with fear. I know if I confessed feelings for someone and if they didn't feel them back, I have to go away for at least a while, if not forever. I only really have one circle of friends, so if that happened with any of them, I'd have to pretty much go back to being completely alone. It makes sense, you wouldn't want someone near who felt something you didn't want them to feel. I don't want to leave all of my friends, but if it went wrong, I'd have to.

Last friday I went out, and a girl approached me. Way out of my league, again. We talked for a little while, and then she said she needed the toilet and left. It bothers me for one, it doesn't make sense, doesn't go with the rules that someone like that would bother with me, not even if she was looking to make new friends, and for another, she never returned. I'm sure I upset her somehow. We didn't even say that much, but I know I must have done something wrong.

Doclector:
What would change is exactly that. I could finally stop stressing about it. Stop being the butt of everyone's sex jokes behind my back. Stop feeling like if I met someone who I cared about, who cared about me, my options would range between telling her and her not wanting to see me in the first place, and lying about it and having her leave as soon as she finds out. It would be just unfair to expect someone to want a man with no experience at all.

I know plenty of women. Only a few of which are single, all of those way, way out of my league. I talk to women as friends a lot. I don't have a problem with that, but when other feelings get involved, the risk paralyzes me with fear. I know if I confessed feelings for someone and if they didn't feel them back, I have to go away for at least a while, if not forever. I only really have one circle of friends, so if that happened with any of them, I'd have to pretty much go back to being completely alone. It makes sense, you wouldn't want someone near who felt something you didn't want them to feel. I don't want to leave all of my friends, but if it went wrong, I'd have to.

Last friday I went out, and a girl approached me. Way out of my league, again. We talked for a little while, and then she said she needed the toilet and left. It bothers me for one, it doesn't make sense, doesn't go with the rules that someone like that would bother with me, not even if she was looking to make new friends, and for another, she never returned. I'm sure I upset her somehow. We didn't even say that much, but I know I must have done something wrong.

Can I just ask how you determine whether someone is `out of your league` or not?

Personally, I think you need to deal with your self esteem issues before you go out looking for a girlfriend. Being in a relationship doesn't make those issues better, it just puts a microscope up to them and makes them even clearer.

I think you are concerning yourself too much with social rules. That girl may have been interested in talking to you, what's wrong with that?
And another question, do you know when someone's interested in you?
I totally don't, so it's not unusual. Boyfriend literally sat me down for like a half-hour talk to tell me he was interested in me and the point kept going way over my head.

I know it's not easy to get out of a negative thought cycle but really you could start by just not saying bad things about yourself anymore.

Phasmal:

Doclector:
What would change is exactly that. I could finally stop stressing about it. Stop being the butt of everyone's sex jokes behind my back. Stop feeling like if I met someone who I cared about, who cared about me, my options would range between telling her and her not wanting to see me in the first place, and lying about it and having her leave as soon as she finds out. It would be just unfair to expect someone to want a man with no experience at all.

I know plenty of women. Only a few of which are single, all of those way, way out of my league. I talk to women as friends a lot. I don't have a problem with that, but when other feelings get involved, the risk paralyzes me with fear. I know if I confessed feelings for someone and if they didn't feel them back, I have to go away for at least a while, if not forever. I only really have one circle of friends, so if that happened with any of them, I'd have to pretty much go back to being completely alone. It makes sense, you wouldn't want someone near who felt something you didn't want them to feel. I don't want to leave all of my friends, but if it went wrong, I'd have to.

Last friday I went out, and a girl approached me. Way out of my league, again. We talked for a little while, and then she said she needed the toilet and left. It bothers me for one, it doesn't make sense, doesn't go with the rules that someone like that would bother with me, not even if she was looking to make new friends, and for another, she never returned. I'm sure I upset her somehow. We didn't even say that much, but I know I must have done something wrong.

Can I just ask how you determine whether someone is `out of your league` or not?

Personally, I think you need to deal with your self esteem issues before you go out looking for a girlfriend. Being in a relationship doesn't make those issues better, it just puts a microscope up to them and makes them even clearer.

I think you are concerning yourself too much with social rules. That girl may have been interested in talking to you, what's wrong with that?
And another question, do you know when someone's interested in you?
I totally don't, so it's not unusual. Boyfriend literally sat me down for like a half-hour talk to tell me he was interested in me and the point kept going way over my head.

I know it's not easy to get out of a negative thought cycle but really you could start by just not saying bad things about yourself anymore.

Generally, I consider someone out of my league if there's better people around that they could have, if they could "do better". Which is most people, to be honest. Nothing's wrong with her talking to me, it just doesn't add up. I don't know whether I know. I know sure as hell that I've never had a proper relationship, and that seems to make it evident that nobody was ever interested. But then again, what would I know? Seems arrogant to think that someone actually wanted me and was too nervous to say anything, though. I know men are supposed to know, though. Normal men always seem to. I know having aspergers I suck at the whole body language thing, but that's no excuse.

And I know I should just fix everything before trying to get a girlfriend, but again, I'm worried by then it might be too late. Who's to say I can ever be fixed? I know plenty of people who managed to actually get treatment who still aren't fixed.

Doclector:
I dunno how anyone can help. I know it either has to go away or I have to become someone that somebody would actually want to be with, but I've no idea how to do either. But it has to go away, I don't want to be a bad person.

Okay. Here is the first piece of advice. Stop calling yourself a bad person. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The main person who recommends you to other people is yourself. If you can't recommend yourself, you're giving a really bad sales pitch.

Phasmal is right here, I'm afraid. You need to stop hating on yourself so much. It's fine to be 23 and not have had a relationship yet, and unless you're on your deathbed there is no such thing as "too late". People are not going to disappear when you turn 25. They aren't even going to disappear when you turn 30.

There are people who make a point of not sleeping with virgins, but the reason for that is generally not because they have "no experience", that's actually kind of an intriguing element. A lot of people (men and women) actually fantasize about being someone's first sexual experience. However, what people are worried about with virgins is inevitably triggering some kind of insecurity. So you beating yourself up about it is basically telling everyone else to run a mile.

Basically though, other than that you're fine, and you're far too young to be having a midlife crisis.

If I were to give you more concrete advice, you need to think less about what you want and more about what you offer, and I don't mean all the wonderful things you would do for someone if you could get in a relationship with them, I mean how you come across to someone who doesn't know you very well but might be curious about finding out more. Remember, that person is probably quite lazy and not very good at this whole thing either (because practically noone is). They want something nice, they want openness and they want no risks. That's really it. No tricks. No secrets.

Hitting on a friend is not the apocalyptic thing you make it out to be, as long as you respect the response. At this point, the most likely reason you're going to be rejected is inconsistency. It's hard to know how to respond when someone who has shown no indication of their feelings towards you suddenly turns it on. Generally, it's better if things are consistent.

You never get "fixed". It doesn't actually work like that, and maybe holding out for that to happen is the problem. The rest of the human race can't read minds, they can't look into your soul and see what an awful person you must be, all they see is what you give them: how you behave, what you do, what you say to them. Do you ever pass someone just walking down the street and wonder whether they've just been bereaved, or whether they're schizophrenic, or whether they self-harm? Of course you don't, they're "normal people", right?

Despite smelling a little of PUA, the article you posted is actually quite good, because it's not telling you to "change your brain", it's pointing out that who you think you are doesn't really matter that much. You're never going to be correct about that. But what you do.. that matters. That's what people see. "Fixing" yourself doesn't work. Accomodating yourself in a way which makes you able to do more things you want to do, that's what you're going for.

 

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