Zero Punctuation: Agents of Mayhem

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erttheking:
*Looks at this thread*

Jesus fucking Christ, were we always this easy to get riled up?

It's just one guy loudly informing us that he doesn't care. Known also as the regular course of events.

OT: Fun episode about a game I knew nothing about.

The game looks a bit crap and I'm wondering why people are being so kind to it, as if it were any other developer that didn't happen to throw in some sly callbacks to a better series of theirs, it would have been torn to shreds. All gameplay I've seen looks so vapid, everything about it is vapid, unfinished and deploying the shallowest of character tropes. It looks shoveled out the door after losing faith in whatever the original plan was, with some nostalgia bait references slapped on to fool customers they're having more fun than they are.

Also;

ProfMcStevie:
Shoulda gone with G.I Row Yahtzee, missed opportunity.

Sounds even more like I'm one of the minority: I've loved the Saint's Row series. G.I. Row will likely get a buy from me ASAP.

Darth_Payn:

Reminds me of that time one of the recent Mortal Kombat games announced one of its new characters was gay, and I thought "And? Does that have any effect on how he fights? This is a fighting game, after all."

Mortal Kombat has a story mode though. And it does come up in there. He became a thief instead of a ninja monk world defender guy because he thought (apparently incorrectly) they wouldn't accept him. Which does come up in the story kind of tangentially, and presumably is also why he uses a bow instead of the straight martial arts the other monk characters do.

Though I don't think that every LGBT or other minority character needs to have their narrative affected by it. If there was a constant stream of gay characters all with the "ostracized, came back and proved to everyone they belonged" narrative, it'd be as ludicrous as the barrage of "mystical nature dude wise man" Indigenous characters.

It's funny how people complain when characters are mentioned as being gay, yet don't give a damn when they're straight. I can guarantee you that if Tracer was straight, the Internet wouldn't have exploded over the comic. I mean, for Christ's sake, you could take the comic, change Emily's gender, and you wouldn't have to change a single line of dialogue to keep the same story.

But then again, I suppose it's forcing the "gay agenda," so yay for keeping marriage between Adam and Eve rather than Adam and Steve. Or something.

That's odd. This might be the first time Zero Punctuation has increased my interest in a game. Which was basically hovering around "none" before watching this.

Now I have developed a nostalgic hankering for G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero on the Commodore 64 (c. 1985, history buffs), what with all the great characters like Blowtorch, Snowjob, Snowtorch and... many other favourites. And this is like that, but with even more to do? Hmmm.

Mind you, it did have a multiplayer mode for a whopping group of two players. But that would have required a friend, and we were too poor to buy one for such a frivolous purpose. So I played mostly all by my lonesome.

Canadamus Prime:
I don't really care that they made her a Lesbian. As I said, I'm not an Overwatch fan. I just have to wonder what the point of establishing that is. I suppose it does flesh her out as a character I guess. *shrug*

It's world building.

What characters feel, what characters eat, how the other inhabitants of a world interact with each other. This level of detail appeals to some players that are interested in the details of the setting. Mass Effect did it with it's codex, Elder Scrolls has expositional NPCs and books, Fallout has audio logs, etc. Most of this optional information has no effect on gameplay or even the plot itself. It exists just to appeal to players that enjoy that level of optional detail and immersion.

Redvenge:

Canadamus Prime:
I don't really care that they made her a Lesbian. As I said, I'm not an Overwatch fan. I just have to wonder what the point of establishing that is. I suppose it does flesh her out as a character I guess. *shrug*

It's world building.

What characters feel, what characters eat, how the other inhabitants of a world interact with each other. This level of detail appeals to some players that are interested in the details of the setting. Mass Effect did it with it's codex, Elder Scrolls has expositional NPCs and books, Fallout has audio logs, etc. Most of this optional information has no effect on gameplay or even the plot itself. It exists just to appeal to players that enjoy that level of optional detail and immersion.

I get that. Although unlike those other examples this is not established in game, but in supplementary material. I suppose since it doesn't really effect the game it could be largely ignored.

Canadamus Prime:
I get that. Although unlike those other examples this is not established in game, but in supplementary material. I suppose since it doesn't really effect the game it could be largely ignored.

It's no different than story material presented in a manual or additional information from a developer interview. It's fluff that helps add depth to the world and the characters in it. It is neither good nor bad, just something to appeal to players who enjoy that level of detail in the game.

Redvenge:

Canadamus Prime:
I get that. Although unlike those other examples this is not established in game, but in supplementary material. I suppose since it doesn't really effect the game it could be largely ignored.

It's no different than story material presented in a manual or additional information from a developer interview. It's fluff that helps add depth to the world and the characters in it. It is neither good nor bad, just something to appeal to players who enjoy that level of detail in the game.

Telling us things about your characters is not a good way to introduce us to them. You know, the whole "show don't tell" thing.

Canadamus Prime:

Redvenge:

Canadamus Prime:
I don't really care that they made her a Lesbian. As I said, I'm not an Overwatch fan. I just have to wonder what the point of establishing that is. I suppose it does flesh her out as a character I guess. *shrug*

It's world building.

What characters feel, what characters eat, how the other inhabitants of a world interact with each other. This level of detail appeals to some players that are interested in the details of the setting. Mass Effect did it with it's codex, Elder Scrolls has expositional NPCs and books, Fallout has audio logs, etc. Most of this optional information has no effect on gameplay or even the plot itself. It exists just to appeal to players that enjoy that level of optional detail and immersion.

I get that. Although unlike those other examples this is not established in game, but in supplementary material. I suppose since it doesn't really effect the game it could be largely ignored.

That's because Overwatch is a game that has most of its lore established outside of the game and the actual storyline is happening fully outside of the game. It's just the way Blizzard decided to tell their story. That's similar how TF2 does it.

Bindal:

Canadamus Prime:

Redvenge:
It's world building.

What characters feel, what characters eat, how the other inhabitants of a world interact with each other. This level of detail appeals to some players that are interested in the details of the setting. Mass Effect did it with it's codex, Elder Scrolls has expositional NPCs and books, Fallout has audio logs, etc. Most of this optional information has no effect on gameplay or even the plot itself. It exists just to appeal to players that enjoy that level of optional detail and immersion.

I get that. Although unlike those other examples this is not established in game, but in supplementary material. I suppose since it doesn't really effect the game it could be largely ignored.

That's because Overwatch is a game that has most of its lore established outside of the game and the actual storyline is happening fully outside of the game. It's just the way Blizzard decided to tell their story. That's similar how TF2 does it.

That's fine. After all it was established in a comic tie-in and not by some spokesperson at a press conference.

Canadamus Prime:
Telling us things about your characters is not a good way to introduce us to them. You know, the whole "show don't tell" thing.

I completely agree with you.

Overwatch does not have a focus on story, but on gameplay. So, while this method is a poor use of the medium, it is understandable.

Bindal:
That's because Overwatch is a game that has most of its lore established outside of the game and the actual storyline is happening fully outside of the game. It's just the way Blizzard decided to tell their story. That's similar how TF2 does it.

Like Bungie with Destiny!

OT; Not surprised Yahtzee isn't a fan of this game.

Canadamus Prime:

PapaGreg096:

Canadamus Prime:

Anyway, yeah that's what I thought. Completely pointless.

What you want her to constantly remind the player she is a lesbian

Of course not.

Bindal:

Canadamus Prime:

Oh is that her name? I think I knew that too.
Anyway, yeah that's what I thought. Completely pointless.

For the game itself, yes, it's somewhat pointless.
For the lore overall (which is basically everything EXCEPT the game), not so much. It adds a bit of fluff and given that outside of the comic showing she has a girlfriend, it is never brought up anyway. Which is better than trying to constantly shove it into our face as if to say "Look, we are divierse! We got a gay character, too!" when it then also doesn't matter for the gameplay or story.

That's the thing, it doesn't add anything. It's utterly arbitrary and pointless. I had the same reaction a few years ago when J.K. Rowling felt the need to announce the Dumbledore in Harry Potter was gay. Does that effect the story in any way? No? Then what's the bloody point?
I'm not a fan of Overwatch and thus have never played it nor have I read this comic. So does her having a girlfriend and her interactions with said girlfriend give us any insights into her character? If no, then I repeat what's the point?

They didn't announce it. They did a Christmas comic. She had a girlfriend in her Christmas comic. It gave plenty of insights into her character since the entire comic revolved around her trying to find a gift but her need to do good for others kept getting in the way of it.

You're being contrarian for the sake of it. She has a girlfriend. There was no fanfare. The only fanfare is being done by people like you

JamesStone:

Canadamus Prime:

PapaGreg096:

What you want her to constantly remind the player she is a lesbian

Of course not.

Bindal:

For the game itself, yes, it's somewhat pointless.
For the lore overall (which is basically everything EXCEPT the game), not so much. It adds a bit of fluff and given that outside of the comic showing she has a girlfriend, it is never brought up anyway. Which is better than trying to constantly shove it into our face as if to say "Look, we are divierse! We got a gay character, too!" when it then also doesn't matter for the gameplay or story.

That's the thing, it doesn't add anything. It's utterly arbitrary and pointless. I had the same reaction a few years ago when J.K. Rowling felt the need to announce the Dumbledore in Harry Potter was gay. Does that effect the story in any way? No? Then what's the bloody point?
I'm not a fan of Overwatch and thus have never played it nor have I read this comic. So does her having a girlfriend and her interactions with said girlfriend give us any insights into her character? If no, then I repeat what's the point?

They didn't announce it. They did a Christmas comic. She had a girlfriend in her Christmas comic. It gave plenty of insights into her character since the entire comic revolved around her trying to find a gift but her need to do good for others kept getting in the way of it.

You're being contrarian for the sake of it. She has a girlfriend. There was no fanfare. The only fanfare is being done by people like you

I am not being contrarian. If it was in a comic or some other EU material and not some stupid press conference or something then I have no problems with that.

Canadamus Prime:

That's the thing, it doesn't add anything. It's utterly arbitrary and pointless. I had the same reaction a few years ago when J.K. Rowling felt the need to announce the Dumbledore in Harry Potter was gay. Does that effect the story in any way? No? Then what's the bloody point?
I'm not a fan of Overwatch and thus have never played it nor have I read this comic. So does her having a girlfriend and her interactions with said girlfriend give us any insights into her character? If no, then I repeat what's the point?

It's called "pandering".

The initial size of the sandbox is not important. All that matters is the fine size, after you released all the cut content as paid DLC.

Hey Canadian keep derailing threads & you're gonna get banned.

Anyway this game does look like a Saints Row: Overwatch. It's a combination of Overwatch's futurism & Saints Row gameplay but while its gameplay looks fun enough & the city looks nice too since nobody yet (that I know of) has done a cyberpunk version of Seoul. The story sincerely is complete trash. Even through I already saw too much of the game I'm going to try it.

Although it seems to lack something CORE the Saint Rows games had... DEEP Customization. From Vehicles to your character's personal Fashion. It's not like I don't think Volition can't make great individual characters. They have done it in Saints Row 2 or for example with Zin.
But this characters right here are just re-makes of things we have already seen or random variations of "le funny guy/gal" personalities, even some of the villains have this same "wonky" attitude. As you can see Volition is still obsessed with all the concepts they have used in the past: biblical references, the 7 deadly sins, hell, Morningstar, the same symbolism they used before, etc. The writer at Voltion has some reading to do, it's clear he/she is uninspired.

Is this Saints Row in another universe? is this Saints Row in the future? I sincerely hope this game doesn't ends with room foreshadowing a sequel but guess what they're clearly going to continue... It's passable as spin-off of Saints Row but that's it.
Volition bruh. There are better ways to do sandbox super hero/villain games. In fact you had the base of that idea with Saints Row 4 gameplay.

Keep the characters Anarchist like the Boss of Saints Row who did what he/she pleased. Make the heroes/villians team have a HQ/crib you can hang around in, hell it can be like the Teen Titans & their T Tower in the middle of an Island close to the City. Let us decide our actions, take jobs we want "good" or "evil" doesn't matters we're beyond that, we want to be able to terrorize over or keep order in the city however we want depending on our tastes. It is our plaything after all our characters are the ones with super powers, no one has power over us why do those characters have to work for another higher commanding boss? They're powerful enough to own themselves.
Playing the good guys (or in this case lesser evil guys) in a game of this kind is boring, being able to play however you want is amazing. The more freedom & customization you give to us the better.
It also clear that now Volition is focusing more in making boss fights which is good but truth is Volition has not yet made a great boss fight ever, they don't know what a great boss fight requires. You don't have to learn how to fight a single boss in this game to beat him, just shoot them until their health bar is depleted, take cover & switch char when your health bar is low.

Canadamus Prime:

PapaGreg096:

Canadamus Prime:

Anyway, yeah that's what I thought. Completely pointless.

What you want her to constantly remind the player she is a lesbian

Of course not.

Bindal:

Canadamus Prime:

Oh is that her name? I think I knew that too.
Anyway, yeah that's what I thought. Completely pointless.

For the game itself, yes, it's somewhat pointless.
For the lore overall (which is basically everything EXCEPT the game), not so much. It adds a bit of fluff and given that outside of the comic showing she has a girlfriend, it is never brought up anyway. Which is better than trying to constantly shove it into our face as if to say "Look, we are divierse! We got a gay character, too!" when it then also doesn't matter for the gameplay or story.

That's the thing, it doesn't add anything. It's utterly arbitrary and pointless. I had the same reaction a few years ago when J.K. Rowling felt the need to announce the Dumbledore in Harry Potter was gay. Does that effect the story in any way? No? Then what's the bloody point?
I'm not a fan of Overwatch and thus have never played it nor have I read this comic. So does her having a girlfriend and her interactions with said girlfriend give us any insights into her character? If no, then I repeat what's the point?

I'd argue that Dumbledore being gay affected how his friendship with Grindelwald felt. You can also say that since gay people are more or less the same as straight people, being gay wouldn't affect their character that much. Since gay people exist, it makes sense that gay characters would exist too, even if it's not immediately obvious that they're gay.

mrdude2010:

Canadamus Prime:

PapaGreg096:

What you want her to constantly remind the player she is a lesbian

Of course not.

Bindal:

For the game itself, yes, it's somewhat pointless.
For the lore overall (which is basically everything EXCEPT the game), not so much. It adds a bit of fluff and given that outside of the comic showing she has a girlfriend, it is never brought up anyway. Which is better than trying to constantly shove it into our face as if to say "Look, we are divierse! We got a gay character, too!" when it then also doesn't matter for the gameplay or story.

That's the thing, it doesn't add anything. It's utterly arbitrary and pointless. I had the same reaction a few years ago when J.K. Rowling felt the need to announce the Dumbledore in Harry Potter was gay. Does that effect the story in any way? No? Then what's the bloody point?
I'm not a fan of Overwatch and thus have never played it nor have I read this comic. So does her having a girlfriend and her interactions with said girlfriend give us any insights into her character? If no, then I repeat what's the point?

I'd argue that Dumbledore being gay affected how his friendship with Grindelwald felt. You can also say that since gay people are more or less the same as straight people, being gay wouldn't affect their character that much. Since gay people exist, it makes sense that gay characters would exist too, even if it's not immediately obvious that they're gay.

Ok, first I will admit my reaction to Tracer being a lesbian was premature. I didn't know about the comic and after giving it some thought I figure this isn't as pointless as I first thought given that it was established in a comic. Also the comparison to Dumbledore a little off the mark.
Now as for Dumbledore, unlike Tracer, it wasn't established in Universe. JK Rowling just up and announced it as if that would effect anything.

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