"Gamers" Are Still Dead, Y'all

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Leave the...uncontrollable cellular growth...in 2014-2015, please.

I know the site is hurting for clicks, but fuck.

Benny Blanco:
I thought the Escapist had purged the sort of "journalist" who writes this sort of tosh after the last entryist shitstorm.

SolidState:
The hell? I thought this site had an ethics policy to prevent this kind of inflammatory content and posturing from being posted. Why is this site regressing again?

Well now. And here I thought we were supposed to be anti-censorship around these parts.

Clearly I was mistaken.

NewClassic:

I'm afraid I don't really find the equivalent of "Horrible people already existed, but I didn't have to deal with them until you showed up. You're to blame for this." to either be compelling reason to not voice my opinion, or really all that fair to the people to whom these horrible people were already being horrible.

Again, we were dealing with it. Do you seriously think it's coincidence that they only got traction socially and politically AFTER those clickbait articles were spewed out?!

Couldn't this just have been "A stereotype is dying?"

Oh, I forgot, that'd mean some smarmy bender couldn't feel smug of all the "outraged" clicks.

Zontar:
Yes I'm aware of these groups, though like the Ottomans after them they, having failed to assimilate the natives or replace them, all fell. That's sort of a trend in history when it comes to migratory conquest.

Oh right, so France isn't named for a group of migratory conquerors called the Franks..

England isn't named for a group of migratory conquerors called the Angles..

The absurdity of your position is that it ties the existence of people with their geopolitical dominance within a region. People in history did not carefully control their breeding to maintain pure ethnic groups. When the Romans conquered the Gauls in France, they intermarried and created a Romano-Gallic culture and ethnicity. When the Franks invaded France, they intermarried and created a synthetic Romano-Gallic-Germanic culture and ethnicity. When norse invaders siezed areas of the Northern coast of France, they intermarried and created a synthetic Romano-Gallic-Germano-Norse culture and ethnicity. When the Normans invaded England, they intermarried and created a synthetic Romano-Gallic-Germano-Norse-Brythonic-Anglo-Saxon-Jute culture and ethnicity (a.k.a. English people). We are all the product of centuries of successful migratory conquest, because a successful migratory conquest ends with the conquering group intermarrying with the conquered group and creating a new synthetic ethnicity and culture. Hungarians descend from Uralic and Turkish steppe people, but look indistinguishable from other Europeans. Turks speak a language with roots on the Eurasian steppes, but genetically they are mostly Anatolian Greeks. People from modern Andalusia often have Berber DNA, and Berbers sometimes have Vandal DNA. Some Vandals were ethnically Alani, and Alans shared DNA with people from Iran.

It's no wonder you're so incredibly protofascist if the only way you can imagine migration occurring is when the conqueror literally genocides the conquered people out of existence.

evilthecat:
Snip

It's amazing the rants people will go on when they only read half of a complete sentence.

Thank the Dark Overlords of the Underverse that we've at least put one serious matter to rest: It's "Y'all" not "Ya'll"!

I'm relieved to see the OP corrected his title. It shows what grassroots activism can accomplish!!!

Zontar:
It's amazing the rants people will go on when they only read half of a complete sentence.

Oh, give me some credit.. I at least made it through the whole sentence, and yes, I did notice the absurd view you have there of how historical migration works.

If you want me to debunk your broader idea that Europe has natural geographical borders (which it doesn't) I can do that.

evilthecat:

Oh, give me some credit.

Given how the entirety of your rant is reliant on ignoring half the sentence you quoted, all to push an argument that is essentially that interbreeding with natives, forcibly changing their culture and taking them over is basically okay due to the fact it's been how we've always done things, why should I?

Even though historically interbreeding has been the rare exception, to the point where today 1 in 50 couples being mixed is still a very enormously high amount compared to in the past outside of new world colonies where a lot of men ended up with native women due to the sex imbalance.

If you want me to debunk your broader idea that Europe has natural geographical borders (which it doesn't) I can do that.

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Didn't realize every map I've ever seen of Europe without one single exception was wrong.

Zontar:

evilthecat:

Oh, give me some credit.

Given how the entirety of your rant is reliant on ignoring half the sentence you quoted, all to push an argument that is essentially that interbreeding with natives, forcibly changing their culture and taking them over is basically okay due to the fact it's been how we've always done things, why should I?

So basically, we should all stay in the stone age and never interact with peoples and cultures outside of the one we were born into so we can keep the bloodline and culture pure? Sounds like a shitty way to live, dude.

EDIT: Also, anybody else find it funny that the Canadian ranting about cultural dilution has an avatar of an anime girl wearing a MAGA hat?

BreakfastMan:

So basically, we should all stay in the stone age and never interact with peoples and cultures outside of the one we were born into so we can keep the bloodline and culture pure?

You know it's odd how many people here continually respond to my posts with things that are a response to something that was neither said nor implied in the post they're responding to. It's almost as if the left uses a completely different lexicon then the middle and right at this point.

Zontar:

BreakfastMan:

So basically, we should all stay in the stone age and never interact with peoples and cultures outside of the one we were born into so we can keep the bloodline and culture pure?

You know it's odd how many people here continually respond to my posts with things that are a response to something that was neither said nor implied in the post they're responding to. It's almost as if the left uses a completely different lexicon then the middle and right at this point.

Dude, you were the one talking about how you aren't okay with immigrants "interbreeding" with natives. You need to own your words someday.

BreakfastMan:

Zontar:

BreakfastMan:

So basically, we should all stay in the stone age and never interact with peoples and cultures outside of the one we were born into so we can keep the bloodline and culture pure?

You know it's odd how many people here continually respond to my posts with things that are a response to something that was neither said nor implied in the post they're responding to. It's almost as if the left uses a completely different lexicon then the middle and right at this point.

Dude, you were the one talking about how you aren't okay with immigrants "interbreeding" with natives. You need to own your words someday.

See that's exactly what I'm talking about.

Zontar:

BreakfastMan:

Zontar:

You know it's odd how many people here continually respond to my posts with things that are a response to something that was neither said nor implied in the post they're responding to. It's almost as if the left uses a completely different lexicon then the middle and right at this point.

Dude, you were the one talking about how you aren't okay with immigrants "interbreeding" with natives. You need to own your words someday.

See that's exactly what I'm talking about.

Yes, I know you were ranting about immigrants "interbreeding" with natives, what's your point?

Only Zontar could enter into a game discussion and bring out arguments that might as well come from the Great Displacement debunked theory. At the end it matters very little, because the Witcher game is based on fiction (books written in the 80's). In a work of fiction, historical accuracy is up to the author to decide (be it the games or the books themselves).

Don't I feel silly. I had an entire response typed out when this thread was at two pages, thought better of it, and return to find nine pages. I haven't read it all, but I've read most of it, and thanks to the contributions of all the history buffs; an unexpected bonus.

I find it fascinating that in creating an article the discusses hostility in the gaming community, I've almost exclusively gotten very hostile responses

Speaking for myself, I'd respond that an article decrying aggression probably shouldn't start off with an act of aggression. 'Gamers are over' was an aggressive, click-baity statement, intended to provoke a response. You MUST know this; if you didn't know it, you might reconsider the power of words.

Maybe it was a word choice that someone quibbled with and it ruined the whole argument.

I wouldn't say 'ruined,' but 'y'all' immediately struck me as condescending and patronizing. Some of it is definitely personal. I HATE slang written out. Written and spoken speech have different conventions for a reason. I loath the X-Man Rogue because in her early appearances the writer insisted on writing out her southern drawl of 'sugah' over and over and....

So why do it? I'm not a part of GamerGate and have zero sympathy for the cretins who send death threats for....well, any reason really, but that headline put me on edge and made me feel I was being talked down to. Not a good way to initiate a conversation on 'hostility.'

And that's BEFORE I read the article.

bikini-clad martial artists, exposed-breast ninjas, and The Witcher sex scenes create an image that the games community doesn't resist

See, to my unsophisticated eyes, that sentence reads an awful lot like someone who conflates 'The Witcher,' possibly the peak of the video-game as an art form, and a game with a ton of strong female representation, with exploitative tittie-games. Fox News couldn't do a better job. We expect more on this forum. A lot more.

As I said, I reconsidered my first, far less polite response, but it seems my reaction wasn't atypical. Your concern about 'hostility' seems to mask a remarkable talent for inspiring it.

BreakfastMan:

runic knight:

You know what it reminds me a lot of? Same sort of justification as "Black people wouldn't have that stereotype if they weren't always committing violence and eating fried chicken".

So, what you are saying is... You identify as a Gamer-American?

Why would I identity as American at all in this instance?

Point being though, it is the same lazy justification of using stereotypes as the example I brought up.

Smithnikov:

runic knight:
.

Funny how GamerGate wasn't a bit suspicious of right wing efforts even when they came right out and said they wanted to censor games, say.

You mean back when gamers were protesting the right-wing when they were the ones calling for the censoring of games like Mortal Kombat because it "caused" violence? Rather selective memory there if you forgot about the rejection of right-wing political demagogues when they tried to push that form of moralizing.

I'd say the better question to ask is why do people like yourself pretend that the current moralizing and attempt to censor games is somehow different than the past based solely on the political lean of the folks pushing it?

Or are you referring to something specifically relating to gamergate itself being ok with games being censored? Because between the attmepts to censor games like Honeypop or DoA, and the attempts to force political leans, I can't think of many efforts made by the right wing in a while to censor anything in gaming. Heck, even the old "games cause violence" narrative has been co-opted by the same group of ideologues opposed to gamergate, so I have to wonder what position of controlling what sort of games can get made is even left for the right to pick up as the would-be moral authoritarian of the gaming industry anymore.

runic knight:

BreakfastMan:

runic knight:

You know what it reminds me a lot of? Same sort of justification as "Black people wouldn't have that stereotype if they weren't always committing violence and eating fried chicken".

So, what you are saying is... You identify as a Gamer-American?

Why would I identity as American at all in this instance?

It is a joke. A joke with something of a point, but a joke nonetheless.

The interesting thing about all of these articles is that they never examine the role in which gaming websites created the aggression-centric culture. They never examine how gaming websites cultivated this culture to fight against those who "threatened" gaming. Then, when the aggression was no longer useful in a more socially just world, the same sites then decided to demonize the very gamers that they had been manipulating into being industry attack dogs.

It's an interesting oversight that always seems to be present in these articles.

BreakfastMan:

runic knight:

BreakfastMan:

So, what you are saying is... You identify as a Gamer-American?

Why would I identity as American at all in this instance?

It is a joke. A joke with something of a point, but a joke nonetheless.

Ah, I see. Sorry, I am not the best of picking up on jokes sometimes.

Lots of lurkers coming out.

Marik2:
This just seems like a ploy to generate traffic to this site.

The great irony is that it isn't, it wasn't, and it might not be replicated again.

The Greatest Irony is that this is the first Article of its kind to find itself the focus of so much attention from the Community to warrant any response: Especially given that the OP wasn't looking for "clickbait" but merely sought to provide new content--period!!!

Zontar:
Given how the entirety of your rant is reliant on ignoring half the sentence you quoted, all to push an argument that is essentially that interbreeding with natives, forcibly changing their culture and taking them over is basically okay due to the fact it's been how we've always done things, why should I?

Which half was I ignoring?

Oh, oh right.. do you think that cultural synthesis is the same thing as cultural assimilation? Hey, by the way did you notice that this language I'm speaking has some words which sound a little like their German equivalents but don't sound like Norman French, you know, the language spoken by the Norman migratory conquerors who invaded England in 1066 (and the language spoken by the aristocracy until literally a few hundred years ago). Why is that?

Also, I made no moral claims (beyond pointing out, which I think still stands, that if your view of migration seems to be based on the assumption that all migration or cultural change is genocide and that's kind of weird and crazy) about the acceptability or otherwise of migratory conquest, merely that the idea that "successful" migratory conquest requires assimilation or genocide is absurd. Historically, when migratory people conquered settled people, their culture adapted to that of the conquered population. The conquered population did not assimilate. The Ottomans spoke an Altaic language, but had little culturally in common with other Altaic people, because much of their culture was (and still is in the case of Turkish people today) the product of Turco-Iranian synthesis in the Seljuk empire, and then Turco-Greek synthesis in Anatolia. This isn't why they "fell" (because they didn't, Constantinople is still Istanbul - a name which is itself a turkicization of a Greek phrase) it's why they succeeded.

Zontar:
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You know the funny thing about the Mediterranean sea.

It's an inland sea.

Which means you can sail across it in a galley, like people have been doing since the classical era. Historically, the Mediterranean is a continuum and many groups have either crossed it or maintained empires spanning both sides. Getting from Italy to North Africa, for most of history, has been easier than crossing the alps from Italy to France over land.

Zontar:
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Okay, so to start with your definition of Europe is both historically absurd and already debunks your idea that Europe is ethnically contiguous, since "Europe" now includes a large proportion of the Eurasian steppes (what used to be called Scythia), whose inhabitants were migratory and as such tended to move around a lot. In fact, the Eurasian steppes have been the source of a lot of migrations of people who certainly wouldn't meet your definition of "white" into Europe itself. Secondly, the Urals have never actually been a barrier to the movement of people since there's a massive gap in what is now Khazakstan. Many ethnic groups have lived on both sides of the Urals at various points. Also..

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There are mountain chains within Europe itself which have actually been far more significant barriers to movement and conquest, we don't treat those as continental boundaries even though they are far greater obstacles historically than the Mediterranean or the Urals.

evilthecat:

Which means you can sail across it in a galley, like people have been doing since the classical era. Historically, the Mediterranean is a continuum and many groups have either crossed it or maintained empires spanning both sides. Getting from Italy to North Africa, for most of history, has been easier than crossing the alps from Italy to France over land.

In fact, most of the early successful peoples around the Mediterranean used the capability to sail faster then walking to establish themselves around it. The Phoenicians did it, the Greeks did it and the Romans later built their entire Empire on the ability to move goods and people quickly across it.

According to Cato, you could get African figs to Rome by sea in 3 days. This was not seen as a good thing.

For that matter, Rome and Carthage were able to send and supply entire invasion forces in each others territory on several occasions.

Later, Pompey was given command over anywhere within 50 miles of the Mediterranean in order to fight the pirates which were affecting the vital trade routes. The southern coast of Europe, northern coast of African and western coast of Asia Minor were so linked as to put them all under the command of one person.

Damn, just when I was starting to think Escapist was one of the good gaming sites, you go and post something like this.

No one is saying these games are inherently bad, or there should be no games styled and developed in this way, but that we genuinely need to recognize that skimpy nuns, bikini-clad martial artists, exposed-breast ninjas, and The Witcher sex scenes create an image that the games community doesn't resist.

Bullsh*t. If those games aren't "inherently bad", then why should they be "resisted"? What other reason could there possibly be?

Just another article that ultimately boils down to "Video games need to be inclusive of everyone! Except people whose tastes I don't like!"

In all seriousness though, you keep writing your...what can charitably be called "articles" or continue the incessant, divergent arguments.

I'll be playing my sexy, successful games.

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Naked.

With blackjack.

And hookers.

You know what? Screw the hookers!

LostGryphon:
In all seriousness though, you keep writing your...what can charitably be called "articles" or continue the incessant, divergent arguments.

I'll be playing my sexy, successful games.

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Naked.

With blackjack.

And hookers.

You know what? Screw the hookers!

I feel like I should argue, because I liked the article and agreed with most of it. But I also really like Nier Automata and I really really like that gif. Butts are great.

All I'll say is that there's tremendous value in the distinction between sexy and sexually exploitative. Is it a game like Nier Automata? With good characters and a really interesting story, and a bit of cheesecake to lighten the mood because Yoko Taro is a bit of a perv. Or is it a game like Duke Nukem Forever? Using women as set dressing, the punchlines to rape jokes, or just a pair of badly animated tits to stare at.

Unfortunately the distinction is very mutable and people can't seem to agree on it, but I know it when I see it. It's the difference between me having a chuckle at 2B's self destruct and between me gagging at the sounds of alien rape which the devs clearly thought was funny for some reason.

Azure23:

All I'll say is that there's tremendous value in the distinction between sexy and sexually exploitative.

Any such distinction ultimately comes down to "sexy I like" and "sexy I don't like", respectively. I've seen people do this all the time, using such faux-distinctions like "sexy vs sexualized" or "sexy vs objectified" or "erotica vs porn". All of it is just people trying to pass off subjective opinions as objective facts.

Besides, you're talking about fictional characters here. Fictional characters, by their very nature, can't be "exploited". They have no backs to break or feelings to hurt.

I rarely post. I really don't, usually.

Now's the time. The old lemur slowly crawls at the cold light, inch by inch.
And it's out, only to show the "author" three erect phalanges.

Yes, it's OKAY for people to shamelessly engage in some FUCKING ESCAPISM.
What's wrong with you?!
Do you know what the word even means?! The crazy word at the door to the office?!

For reasons that are entirely respectable, many people chose to play a hunk, a beautiful specimen, a sexy, competent amazon or a combination of all these things. Males with shoulders so broad and jacked that you've got a dozen climate zones between the folds of the armless chainmail. Females with curves so ridiculous, Senior Colani would wish for some PSX low poly version.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with this.

When times create lesser men that cannot even dare to dream, these creatures cannot cope with any kind of strength, be it physical, mental or even imaginative. Even wanting awesome things is sinful, for the mud dweller is afraid to openly express his own longings.
The only anti-strength he learned to cultivate is to shame unisono along his fellow sheep. The easiest discipline it to attack what people find attractive. For beauty is by definition a rare flower that is also exposed.

"Why do you want a buxom Lara? Why not a flat chested one? Why must she be beautiful? Why even Lara? Why not Loro the unremarkable janitor?"

Stangely enough, movies are still full of beautiful people that get more nakid every decade. How spectacular was Gabourey Sidibe's career again, pray tell? Nobody's saying anything about how awful it is with Hollywood - and it is awful and its industry is full of awful people who seem obsessed with the nomenclature the "author" uses so fervently.

We live in times where an otherwise quiet, holy, ludic adoration of avatars of beauty and strength is pathologised by non-adepts. Our magic mass is invaded by ugly, ugly infidels. Who let these guys in?

Gamers will never die. All kinds of magazines, trends and ideologies will, however.
You're no Gamer. What are you doing?

We think you need to play harder, sexier, manlier games or gtfo.

Basement Cat:
The Greatest Irony is that this is the first Article of its kind to find itself the focus of so much attention from the Community to warrant any response: Especially given that the OP wasn't looking for "clickbait" but merely sought to provide new content--period!!!

If the goal is merely getting new content, then presumably a response piece would be welcome. Do you know how one would go about that? Who needs to be contacted?

TDA WP:

Basement Cat:
The Greatest Irony is that this is the first Article of its kind to find itself the focus of so much attention from the Community to warrant any response: Especially given that the OP wasn't looking for "clickbait" but merely sought to provide new content--period!!!

If the goal is merely getting new content, then presumably a response piece would be welcome. Do you know how one would go about that? Who needs to be contacted?

PM NewClassic.

Basement Cat:

Marik2:
This just seems like a ploy to generate traffic to this site.

The great irony is that it isn't, it wasn't, and it might not be replicated again.

The Greatest Irony is that this is the first Article of its kind to find itself the focus of so much attention from the Community to warrant any response: Especially given that the OP wasn't looking for "clickbait" but merely sought to provide new content--period!!!

Maybe, this article proved that game journalism is dead...Y'all!

Sorry, for the snarky remark. I am rooting for The Escapist to thrive. For them to get more content, and actually be a gaming website that highlights the best of gaming. Occasionally, to poke fun at the worst games and warn consumers of bad business practices that gaming companies are trying to pull. Is that too much to ask?

Social politics have it's time and place. Political correctness should not be a litmus test on whether a game is good or not. Is the game fun? Are the controls good? How does it look? Would you recommend this game to your readers?

I think it's time for game journalists and gaming websites to get back to basics. Enough with the culture wars. Right now the culture war is everywhere. Even during the national anthem of sporting events. Speaking for myself, we need some escape from that. Is The Escapist willing to do that?

Basement Cat:

Marik2:
This just seems like a ploy to generate traffic to this site.

The great irony is that it isn't, it wasn't, and it might not be replicated again.

The Greatest Irony is that this is the first Article of its kind to find itself the focus of so much attention from the Community to warrant any response: Especially given that the OP wasn't looking for "clickbait" but merely sought to provide new content--period!!!

Congratulations, you generated a third of comments criticising the site, a third criticising the mods, and a third criticising the author for being dangerously disingenuous. No wonder you lot are getting killed by reddit.

TDA WP:

Basement Cat:
The Greatest Irony is that this is the first Article of its kind to find itself the focus of so much attention from the Community to warrant any response: Especially given that the OP wasn't looking for "clickbait" but merely sought to provide new content--period!!!

If the goal is merely getting new content, then presumably a response piece would be welcome. Do you know how one would go about that? Who needs to be contacted?

Basement Cat:

TDA WP:

Basement Cat:
The Greatest Irony is that this is the first Article of its kind to find itself the focus of so much attention from the Community to warrant any response: Especially given that the OP wasn't looking for "clickbait" but merely sought to provide new content--period!!!

If the goal is merely getting new content, then presumably a response piece would be welcome. Do you know how one would go about that? Who needs to be contacted?

PM NewClassic.

Ask for the money up front. This website is a classic for not paying contributors.

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