An Open Letter to The Escapist Community

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Vendor-Lazarus:
And people wonder why the vocal left are called regressive and authoritarian..
Even a whiff of power has them contemplating purging people for wrongthink and differing opinions.

Any silent leftists want to speak out against it?
Do you simply agree? Don't care? Fear of being ostracized yourself?

Well then..

*Edit*
And I was ninja'd..sort of.
I will let my post stand though.

It sounds good but again, it always does.
Time will tell.

No one is advocating the removal of users based on worldview. You're free to think and say what you want so long as you're not being a dick about it. That's pretty much how the site has always functioned.

The Escapist was my first forum home and I'm sad I didn't do my part in just being active once the content about I cared about were let go.

I hope Escapist stays and bounces back. Godspeed to the staff.

trollnystan:

shrekfan246:
I remember your avatar and name, at least, if not your actual posting habits. :D

Senpai noticed me! *squees*

I remember you too and your many fun J-pop themed avatars =D

I remember dancing Garrus too. Sorry I'm the same, cant remember what you talked about

Eri:

scorn the biomage:

Eri:
Wow social justice much? Just what all gamers love, Anita Sarkeesian.

no one gives damn about how you feel slick.

You mean just like how no one cares how you feel either? Got it.

You sure got him

Vendor-Lazarus:
And people wonder why the vocal left are called regressive and authoritarian..
Even a whiff of power has them contemplating purging people for wrongthink and differing opinions.

Any silent leftists want to speak out against it?
Do you simply agree? Don't care? Fear of being ostracized yourself?

Well then..

*Edit*
And I was ninja'd..sort of.
I will let my post stand though.

It sounds good but again, it always does.
Time will tell.

So what you've done is set a trap. If the silent left doesn't reply, they agree with you. If they do reply, they are regressive. Clap, Clap. Very clever. I'll leave it at that because you recognised Susan's response covers some of your complaints.

This site is an example of when there is no central ideology. Nothing changes from normal, there's still plenty of whinging. Lots people left. Nothing gets fixed. If any leader takes over, from any side, even the centre, there will be purges of some sort. That's what's in our future, particularly for those who want this site to survive. I haven't been a huge advocate for the site because I can already imagine the costs.

Fappy:
Well then it's a good thing none of us are sex offenders.

Well, if we're going full emulation, somebody is going to have to be. I mean, obviously, it's up to the staff to decide, but my vote is to pin it on one of the new guys that nobody has heard of.

Saelune:
And people wonder why the vocal right are called bigoted and authoritarian.
Even a whiff of power has them contemplating purging people for wrongthink and not being white.

To be fair, that doesn't really work. The site was under Macris for a while, and there's really not been any purging.

A distinct lack, I'd say.

Yet, the moment Susan gets even the wiff of it, we've got people celebrating that the people they dislike might get removed.

Zydrate:

Vendor-Lazarus:
And people wonder why the vocal left are called regressive and authoritarian..
Even a whiff of power has them contemplating purging people for wrongthink and differing opinions.

Any silent leftists want to speak out against it?
Do you simply agree? Don't care? Fear of being ostracized yourself?

Well then..

*Edit*
And I was ninja'd..sort of.
I will let my post stand though.

It sounds good but again, it always does.
Time will tell.

Well as a liberal, I'd rather not be surrounded by certain aggressive types. The right likes to cry about "safe spaces" and "snowflakes" but it's kind of human nature to want to feel safe in your surroundings.
If someone gives me a bowl of skittles and tells me three of them are poisoned - I am not going to risk death. I'd rather move to another bowl.
(This site is a bowl)

Well as a Liberal I have a few things to say about that.

When people come in talking of 'purges' jokingly or not I can't help but feel those who would be targeted by this would be mainly those caught on the 'wrong side', best thing in my mind would be politics being gotten rid of entirely and go back to a time before there were 'sides' in this matter but obviously that's not going to happen, we can't turn back time.

Whatever happens whilst I wouldn't mind a resurgent escapistmagazine with content creation and a highly moderated forums like the good old days I don't want to see users getting removed for having the wrong opinion (Which, judging from Susans words, they would) and in my eyes you're (Zydrate) likening users with the wrong opinion to being poison that kills you, I think you might well be exaggerating a bit, there is room for inclusivity- proper diversity includes diversity of opinion. I haven't been here in two years so I don't know if there really are hyper-aggressive people walking around here scaring people, but from what I've seen the past two days it doesn't look that way, that said I haven't been to the 'Wild West' so it might be contained there for all I know.

The Lunatic:

Fappy:
Well then it's a good thing none of us are sex offenders.

Well, if we're going full emulation, somebody is going to have to be. I mean, obviously, it's up to the staff to decide, but my vote is to pin it on one of the new guys that nobody has heard of.

Saelune:
And people wonder why the vocal right are called bigoted and authoritarian.
Even a whiff of power has them contemplating purging people for wrongthink and not being white.

To be fair, that doesn't really work. The site was under Macris for a while, and there's really not been any purging.

A distinct lack, I'd say.

Yet, the moment Susan gets even the wiff of it, we've got people celebrating that the people they dislike might get removed.

Yeah cause a webstie > the actual government.

trunkage:
I remember dancing Garrus too. Sorry I'm the same, cant remember what you talked about

I don't expect anyone to. I rarely started my own threads and my replies were generic, neither thought provoking nor terribly funny. I had fun participating though.

I AM glad Dancing Turian/Garrus stuck in people's minds! =D (one of my favourite gifs I've made)

Nikolaz72:

When people come in talking of 'purges' jokingly or not I can't help but feel those who would be targeted by this would be mainly those caught on the 'wrong side', best thing in my mind would be politics being gotten rid of entirely and go back to a time before there were 'sides' in this yet unresolved dispute but obviously that's not going to happen, we can't turn back time.

Whatever happens whilst I wouldn't mind a resurgent escapistmagazine with content creation and a highly moderated forums like the good old days I don't want to see users getting removed for having the wrong opinion (Which, judging from Susans words, they would) and in my eyes you're (Zydrate) likening users with the wrong opinion to being poison that kills you, I think you might well be exaggerating a bit, there is room for inclusivity- proper diversity includes diversity of opinion. I haven't been here in two years so I don't know if there really are hyper-aggressive people walking around here scaring people, but from what I've seen the past two days it doesn't look that way, that said I haven't been to the 'Wild West' so it might be contained there for all I know.

I admit the analogy is an oversimplification, but my ultimate goal is to not have to interact with gamergate lunatics who think women should be kicked out of their imagined clubhouse.

Zydrate:

Nikolaz72:

When people come in talking of 'purges' jokingly or not I can't help but feel those who would be targeted by this would be mainly those caught on the 'wrong side', best thing in my mind would be politics being gotten rid of entirely and go back to a time before there were 'sides' in this yet unresolved dispute but obviously that's not going to happen, we can't turn back time.

Whatever happens whilst I wouldn't mind a resurgent escapistmagazine with content creation and a highly moderated forums like the good old days I don't want to see users getting removed for having the wrong opinion (Which, judging from Susans words, they would) and in my eyes you're (Zydrate) likening users with the wrong opinion to being poison that kills you, I think you might well be exaggerating a bit, there is room for inclusivity- proper diversity includes diversity of opinion. I haven't been here in two years so I don't know if there really are hyper-aggressive people walking around here scaring people, but from what I've seen the past two days it doesn't look that way, that said I haven't been to the 'Wild West' so it might be contained there for all I know.

I admit the analogy is an oversimplification, but my ultimate goal is to not have to interact with gamergate lunatics who think women should be kicked out of their imagined clubhouse.

I don't think in my many years on this site I saw or even recently have seen anyone calling for women to leave gaming, but if you want to avoid people who disagree with you then the escapist was never the right place for you to begin with, its always tolerated difference in opinion even when we had a (large) vigilant moderating team.

I hope you find what you're looking for though, but I also hope that it will not be here.

Vendor-Lazarus:
Snip

Zydrate:
Snip

trunkage:
Snip

Saelune:
Snip

The Lunatic:
Snip

Nikolaz72:
Snip

OK guys (and this goes for anybody else who I've missed or is rambling through), there's a time and a place for the deep political discussions. We'd like to keep this particular thread reasonably on-topic so if you are wanting to get into a big political debate, in this instance could you please take it to either the Religion and Politics forum, groups or the Wild West. Thank you.

bluegate:
When the Tech Team was fired they upgraded all "well behaved" users to Pub Club status

Do you guys have the power to upgrade more users? No one should pay for it any more afterall, maybe as a reward for being a member for a year or something similar?

And not adressing Bluegate with this one, just folks in general, please don't start banning users for wrongthink, we should all live and be hammered by the same rules. There are plenty of other places on the internet for safespaces.

Let's not forget the gems that we got under the old regime, I still remember Greg Tito's Dragon Age 2 review as the worst bit of writing I've ever seen.

Edit: Looked it up after all these years and there's still the happy sight of multiple people yelling cop-out at the 5 star review.

The Lunatic:
I don't think actively working to become the next Neogaf is a good idea given we've just seen what happened to the current Neogaf.

That had nothing to do with the community though, it was because the owner is a sexual abusing piece of shit

Susan Arendt:
I'm glad to hear most folks here are lovely, but if you have known asshats, believe me, you lose nothing by getting rid of them. A healthy community takes a lot of work, and that includes dealing with outbursts.

To be clear, I'm not advocating becoming the thought police. Just because someone doesn't share your worldview, that doesn't mean they should be banned. Then you just end up with an echo chamber, and lord knows there are enough of those already. But if you want a healthy, welcoming community, you have to have people who can disagree and/or discuss opposing points of view respectfully, who aren't just around to sling hate and stir shit up for lulz. Show 'em the door.

So, that has me concerned in one way. There's people who are asshats often, but what about those who aren't asshats all the time? I know I've been a bit of a little shit in the WW, but I often come back acknowledging it and even apologizing for when I know I'm being an cock mongrel. But because of the initial outbursts, am I a target to get wiped out? What about other users who are the same? Or people who just use the WW to shitpost? Are they gone too?

You don't need a Wild West forum, either. You really don't.

I've always been against it, and so have others. It goes against everything this site has stood for. It was made by the actions of people who caved to the bitching of the minority, when it wasn't necessary for the majority. I'd be happy to see it gone

As a member of the Old Guard, I salute you all. Godspeed.

Almost a decade since I registered during the peak of Zero Punctuation and seeing the state of this site after 5 years is quite sad. Dunno what lead to a decline from a good website that I actually enjoyed reading articles from this website (Like an actual magazine) that gave me food for thought.

But I guess times have moved along as well as other staff members did and my MMO habits. I lurk on reddit while not perfect is where I get my gaming news fix.

I wish the best of future endeavors for this site and people who dedicated their time for this site.

ResonanceSD:
Let's not forget the gems that we got under the old regime, I still remember Greg Tito's Dragon Age 2 review as the worst bit of writing I've ever seen.

Edit: Looked it up after all these years and there's still the happy sight of multiple people yelling cop-out at the 5 star review.

I was honestly waiting for this to come up at some point in this thread, so thanks.

If Susan can buy this place, which I?ll happily donate to, and it causes the people left who brought this site burning down to the ground to fuck off. I?ll probably come back.

You know, for all that matters.

Edit: Feels wrong not to mention the volunteers who are keeping this place going. I have full confidence y'all do your best to keep this site running as long as you possibly can and probably better than those who own it.

I've lurked here for a very long time, but as more content slipped away my interaction with The Escapist similarly declined. Extra Credits, Critical Miss/Erin Dies Alone, CineMarter (although he's reappeared); when/if Zero Punctuation leaves, the last thing keeping me here will be gone and I will be officially done.

I am totally on board for Susan's return, especially if she can bring the content I enjoyed back to The Escapist. At the very least, I'd like to see control-rights given back to the creators, so-as-to end their involvement with the website on a good note. The metaphorical equivalent of a final "no hard feelings" handshake and an "it's been fun" send-off. Or, you know, an actual one works too.

Either-way, props to the people who have kept The Escapist afloat and running, and...well..."it's been fun."

Susan Arendt:
I mean, let's get real. It wouldn't make money. Running a web site that turns a profit requires a lot of resources, and there's just no real point in attempting that with a gaming site in this current financial environment.

Now before I say anything, I admit I have no experience in administrating and maintaining a site like this. Although I DO have experience administrating and maintaining a large dedicated general forum.

But anyway. I very much disagree that this site can't be profitable anymore. I mean, look how long NeoGAF and sites like Giant Bomb and Rock, Paper, Shotgun are running. NeoGAF, despite all its crap would still be going pretty strong were it not for the scandals. And I guarantee you, Defy wouldn't be holding onto Yahtzee if they didn't think he wasn't profitable.

No, the problem is finding content that brings people in. Now, I once looked at some view counts on both this site and youtube for Yahtzee, and apparently ~25% of youtube viewers come here to watch it sooner. Now that's a pretty decent number just for one person. You have the monetization on Youtube plus the monetization on your own site here. And we're not even getting into reinstituting pub club memberships. Now imagine if you had just 5 videos that all pulled in the same amount of viewers as Yahtzee. That's a chunk of money. And we're ALSO not even getting the ad revenue generated by people just reading articles on the site, be they news, informational, or opinion pieces. There's probably also other ways you can generate revenue but I won't get into all that right now.

Susan Arendt:
Then we clean the FUCK out of this place. Scorched earth, motherfuckers. I honestly don't understand why you're not already doing that. If this is YOUR site now, then make the community you WANT.

Um...

Besides MAYBE Wild West, there isn't really any problems with the community that I see. One of the biggest "troublemakers" here recently was Epic Wynn and he's pretty much effectively banned now. Some people here think for some reason that this place is toxic when it's really not even close to that. I mean, I've seen toxic places. I've administrated them as mentioned above. I've had my site DDoSed and flooded with child porn. Now THAT is toxic as hell.

I do not agree with not having rules. That's not at all what I'm trying to say, but... How far are we gonna go here? When will it be enough? You CAN overmoderate a site. That much is certain. And when that happens, you won't get much, if any, conflicting dialogue at all because everyone doesn't wanna be banned. And you may not even mean any of that to happen, but it can happen.

If a user disrespects staff, does that call for a ban? If a user makes a particularly contentious thread, does that call for a ban? People WILL disagree with the staff. They'll disagree with the mod team. And you know what, as long as they're not actually breaking common sense rules, that's fine. But if we say that's not acceptable. If we try to carry it too far in the other direction, we will end up with an echo chamber.

Arnoxthe1:

Susan Arendt:
I mean, let's get real. It wouldn't make money. Running a web site that turns a profit requires a lot of resources, and there's just no real point in attempting that with a gaming site in this current financial environment.

Now before I say anything, I admit I have no experience in administrating and maintaining a site like this. Although I DO have experience administrating and maintaining a large dedicated general forum.

But anyway. I very much disagree that this site can't be profitable anymore. I mean, look how long NeoGAF and sites like Giant Bomb and Rock, Paper, Shotgun are running. NeoGAF, despite all its crap would still be going pretty strong were it not for the scandals. And I guarantee you, Defy wouldn't be holding onto Yahtzee if they didn't think he wasn't profitable.

No, the problem is finding content that brings people in. Now, I once looked at some view counts on both this site and youtube for Yahtzee, and apparently ~25% of youtube viewers come here to watch it sooner. Now that's a pretty decent number just for one person. You have the monetization on Youtube plus the monetization on your own site here. And we're not even getting into reinstituting pub club memberships. Now imagine if you had just 5 videos that all pulled in the same amount of viewers as Yahtzee. That's a chunk of money. And we're ALSO not even getting the ad revenue generated by people just reading articles on the site, be they news, informational, or opinion pieces. There's probably also other ways you can generate revenue but I won't get into all that right now.

Susan Arendt:
Then we clean the FUCK out of this place. Scorched earth, motherfuckers. I honestly don't understand why you're not already doing that. If this is YOUR site now, then make the community you WANT.

Um...

Besides MAYBE Wild West, there isn't really any problems with the community that I see. One of the biggest "troublemakers" here recently was Epic Wynn and he's pretty much effectively banned now. Some people here think for some reason that this place is toxic when it's really not even close to that. I mean, I've seen toxic places. I've administrated them as mentioned above. I've had my site DDoSed and flooded with child porn. Now THAT is toxic as hell.

I do not agree with not having rules. That's not at all what I'm trying to say, but... How far are we gonna go here? When will it be enough? You CAN overmoderate a site. That much is certain. And when that happens, you won't get much, if any, conflicting dialogue at all because everyone doesn't wanna be banned. And you may not even mean any of that to happen, but it can happen.

If a user disrespects staff, does that call for a ban? If a user makes a particularly contentious thread, does that call for a ban? People WILL disagree with the staff. They'll disagree with the mod team. And you know what, as long as they're not actually breaking common sense rules, that's fine. But if we say that's not acceptable. If we try to carry it too far in the other direction, we will end up with an echo chamber.

Question -- do y'all not have the same metered moderation system we used to? The one that explained why someone was disciplined, how long they had to stay on good behavior for the mark to be removed, the whole bit?

Susan Arendt:

Arnoxthe1:

Susan Arendt:
I mean, let's get real. It wouldn't make money. Running a web site that turns a profit requires a lot of resources, and there's just no real point in attempting that with a gaming site in this current financial environment.

Now before I say anything, I admit I have no experience in administrating and maintaining a site like this. Although I DO have experience administrating and maintaining a large dedicated general forum.

But anyway. I very much disagree that this site can't be profitable anymore. I mean, look how long NeoGAF and sites like Giant Bomb and Rock, Paper, Shotgun are running. NeoGAF, despite all its crap would still be going pretty strong were it not for the scandals. And I guarantee you, Defy wouldn't be holding onto Yahtzee if they didn't think he wasn't profitable.

No, the problem is finding content that brings people in. Now, I once looked at some view counts on both this site and youtube for Yahtzee, and apparently ~25% of youtube viewers come here to watch it sooner. Now that's a pretty decent number just for one person. You have the monetization on Youtube plus the monetization on your own site here. And we're not even getting into reinstituting pub club memberships. Now imagine if you had just 5 videos that all pulled in the same amount of viewers as Yahtzee. That's a chunk of money. And we're ALSO not even getting the ad revenue generated by people just reading articles on the site, be they news, informational, or opinion pieces. There's probably also other ways you can generate revenue but I won't get into all that right now.

Susan Arendt:
Then we clean the FUCK out of this place. Scorched earth, motherfuckers. I honestly don't understand why you're not already doing that. If this is YOUR site now, then make the community you WANT.

Um...

Besides MAYBE Wild West, there isn't really any problems with the community that I see. One of the biggest "troublemakers" here recently was Epic Wynn and he's pretty much effectively banned now. Some people here think for some reason that this place is toxic when it's really not even close to that. I mean, I've seen toxic places. I've administrated them as mentioned above. I've had my site DDoSed and flooded with child porn. Now THAT is toxic as hell.

I do not agree with not having rules. That's not at all what I'm trying to say, but... How far are we gonna go here? When will it be enough? You CAN overmoderate a site. That much is certain. And when that happens, you won't get much, if any, conflicting dialogue at all because everyone doesn't wanna be banned. And you may not even mean any of that to happen, but it can happen.

If a user disrespects staff, does that call for a ban? If a user makes a particularly contentious thread, does that call for a ban? People WILL disagree with the staff. They'll disagree with the mod team. And you know what, as long as they're not actually breaking common sense rules, that's fine. But if we say that's not acceptable. If we try to carry it too far in the other direction, we will end up with an echo chamber.

Question -- do y'all not have the same metered moderation system we used to? The one that explained why someone was disciplined, how long they had to stay on good behavior for the mark to be removed, the whole bit?

Sure, but it barely worked then and it really doesn't work now. Back when it was easily subverted by being extremely passive aggressive - raising it to an artform in the case of some users - and mods were so overworked the explanation one might get for a warning amounted to 'don't be rude', and were so routinely overturned that warnings barely mattered to anyone willing to hit the contest button. Now mods have limited enough time/attention due to the sites current condition that only the most obviously infraction posts and the most egregious repeat offenders are actually dealt with. Hence Epic Wynn and the one guy in this thread.

Sassafrass:

ResonanceSD:
Let's not forget the gems that we got under the old regime, I still remember Greg Tito's Dragon Age 2 review as the worst bit of writing I've ever seen.

Edit: Looked it up after all these years and there's still the happy sight of multiple people yelling cop-out at the 5 star review.

I was honestly waiting for this to come up at some point in this thread, so thanks.

Yeah, that really turned me off this website. Smelt like cash for comment.

Susan Arendt:

Question -- do y'all not have the same metered moderation system we used to? The one that explained why someone was disciplined, how long they had to stay on good behavior for the mark to be removed, the whole bit?

Haha, do you remember the moderators that used to run this place? Got an instant suspension from a dude for "mod sass".

Never thought I would come back here after the content I came for left. No matter what anyone thinks of the old site it would be really cool to get all the creators the rights to their stuff again.

I see my avatar went away. Musta left it in my other pants.

Arnoxthe1:
Some people here think for some reason that this place is toxic when it's really not even close to that.

I would disagree, but then my definition of what makes a "toxic community" and what shouldn't be accepted in the current sociopolitical environment is apparently far more skewed than most, if that Charlottesville thread from a while back where people were defending literal Nazis is any indication.

It's economics, not "moderation policy" when something like this happens. Whatever economic forces at work causing the Escapist to either stay open or shutter its doors has more to do with ownership of the site and ad revenue coming in than in alienating a few angry grognards. In management we used to have a saying that 5% of your workforce are going to cause 80% of your issues; focus on getting rid of that 5%.

I'd guess the same holds true for message boards.

Good luck to the Escapist investors, may your pockets be filled from this site.

Susan Arendt:

Question -- do y'all not have the same metered moderation system we used to? The one that explained why someone was disciplined, how long they had to stay on good behavior for the mark to be removed, the whole bit?

That system has been broken for a long time by my understanding.

But even when it was in place when I was here like 8-10 years ago or somem (Can't even remember who I used to be around here) it was a complete joke considering the games that mods and their pets would play to get users they didn't like banned.

Pet would passive aggressively bait the targeted user and then their Mod buddy would slap warnings on the target when they responded with anything resembling a heated remark, and the staff didn't give enough of a shit to actually reign the kiddos in.

I am very sure that your inquisition would do something similar if you and people like Bob bought the site off Defy. And as much as you claim you wouldn't want to thought police anyone I doubt anyone actually believes that. Hell some of the usual suspects are rooting for thought policing.

2fish:
Never thought I would come back here after the content I came for left. No matter what anyone thinks of the old site it would be really cool to get all the creators the rights to their stuff again.

I see my avatar went away. Musta left it in my other pants.

Here ya go

image

EvilRoy:
Sure, but it barely worked then and it really doesn't work now. Back when it was easily subverted by being extremely passive aggressive - raising it to an artform in the case of some users - and mods were so overworked the explanation one might get for a warning amounted to 'don't be rude', and were so routinely overturned that warnings barely mattered to anyone willing to hit the contest button. Now mods have limited enough time/attention due to the sites current condition that only the most obviously infraction posts and the most egregious repeat offenders are actually dealt with. Hence Epic Wynn and the one guy in this thread.

Who cares if someone one was being passive aggressive though as long as they weren't just making attacks on someone's character? (In that case, you could say they're derailing a topic purely to create drama now and thus should be infracted accordingly.)

If someone was being a ditz, you didn't have to talk to them at all. If it really made you feel better, you could even ignore them. And in any case, jerks will, sooner or later, break the rules proper anyway, being the kind of person that they are, and then you can infract them instead of burdening the mod team with trying to decide whether someone's passive aggressiveness is too much or not.

Now, the old CoC I had two complaints with actually, but I'll bring those up at another time.

shrekfan246:
I would disagree, but then my definition of what makes a "toxic community" and what shouldn't be accepted in the current sociopolitical environment is apparently far more skewed than most, if that Charlottesville thread from a while back where people were defending literal Nazis is any indication.

But what would you do about it if you had control? Are you gonna ban someone just because they say they agree with someone else, no matter how bad that someone else may be?

I try to err on the side of freedom of speech. Too much moderation is suffocating, even though I totally agree that we should have rules around here.

Arnoxthe1:

shrekfan246:
I would disagree, but then my definition of what makes a "toxic community" and what shouldn't be accepted in the current sociopolitical environment is apparently far more skewed than most, if that Charlottesville thread from a while back where people were defending literal Nazis is any indication.

But what would you do about it if you had control? Are you gonna ban someone just because they say they agree with someone else, no matter how bad that someone else may be?

I try to err on the side of freedom of speech. Too much moderation is suffocating, even though I totally agree that we should have rules around here.

Well, frankly, I'd actually enforce the "no hate speech" clause that was added into the CoC but never actually amounted to much of anything in practice. Homophobia, racism, sexism, and especially transphobia are still rampant in this forum, even outside of the Wild West, and I don't much care about curbing "free speech" to stamp those out, myself. Freedom of speech doesn't really apply to privately-owned internet forums, anyway.

But, like I said, my definition of what makes a toxic community is far more radical than what many other people would consider, and I own that.

Arnoxthe1:

EvilRoy:
Sure, but it barely worked then and it really doesn't work now. Back when it was easily subverted by being extremely passive aggressive - raising it to an artform in the case of some users - and mods were so overworked the explanation one might get for a warning amounted to 'don't be rude', and were so routinely overturned that warnings barely mattered to anyone willing to hit the contest button. Now mods have limited enough time/attention due to the sites current condition that only the most obviously infraction posts and the most egregious repeat offenders are actually dealt with. Hence Epic Wynn and the one guy in this thread.

Who cares if someone one was being passive aggressive though as long as they weren't just making attacks on someone's character? (In that case, you could say they're derailing a topic purely to create drama now and thus should be infracted accordingly.)

If someone was being a ditz, you didn't have to talk to them at all. If it really made you feel better, you could even ignore them. And in any case, jerks will, sooner or later, break the rules proper anyway, being the kind of person that they are, and then you can infract them instead of burdening the mod team with trying to decide whether someone's passive aggressiveness is too much or not.

Well many times the passive aggressiveness would take the form of actively dogging people through the forums, prodding and harassing them at every turn. Many times you would see certain users follow and harass others to the point people left the site or got themselves banned by fighting back openly rather than in veiled words. You can argue turning the other cheek if you want, but you can't convince me that a person who snaps back at it is wrong, nor can you convince me that the passive aggressive misery that some so thoroughly perpetuated is any better than open insults.

And that was the problem I had in large part with how warnings and infractions were dealt with here. By allowing the miserable few to dominate and direct the tenor of the forum, the forum became a miserable place. Even if you weren't one targeted for harassment, or part of the two teams that basically ran foolish gang wars uncontested by moderators in the forum, the mood and tone of the forums were clearly and permanently changed.

With 8 strikes and the ease of overturns, it took some of those miserable few literal years to actually face real consequences and in the mean time they bullied and pushed and snipped away at anyone they didn't like and made the place worse for it. Some of them are still here. New users chased away if they couldn't learn the 'rules' fast enough, old users run off out of frustration.

shrekfan246:
Freedom of speech doesn't really apply to privately-owned internet forums, anyway.

That, plus everyone who complains about it tend to forget the whole "freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences" bit of that entire thing.

Sell the domain folks and don't let the door hit your butt on the way out.
I'd like to be scathing but there is little point, no one is surprised by this. No one wants to work for you anyways and no one really cared about your click bait.

Go out with dignity, appreciate the good times had and move on. Like Yoda says, try not. Do or do not, there is no try.

Pull the plug, you won't be missed by me.

Good luck I guess.

Dosbilliam:

shrekfan246:
Freedom of speech doesn't really apply to privately-owned internet forums, anyway.

That, plus everyone who complains about it tend to forget the whole "freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences" bit of that entire thing.

that reminds me of this xkcd comic.

image

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