Justice League - There Is No Justice Here

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Justice League - There Is No Justice Here

Justice League is another disappointing entry in the DCEU series of movies.

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Justice League - There Is No Justice Here

Justice League is another disappointing entry in the DCEU series of movies.

Read Full Article

Since nobody really had high expectations, can it really be called disappointing?

Since nobody really had high expectations, can it really be called disappointing?

A lot of people seemed to think that WW's decentness meant DC movies would be better now.

How many expected this movie to be good?

Serious question, I want to know how many people are/were still positive about DC films. General consensus seems very negative, want to see if there's an opposing viewpoint.

I feel sad for everyone involved. Except WB.

I told everyone that the tonal shift will happen since it switched directors who are polar opposites and the re-shoots.

Now I am gonna have sit through the most cringeworthy of Joss Wheadon's quips.

Unfortunate, but not terribly surprising. About on a par with what I've heard from other reviewers (although some, like NPR's offering, at least felt there were some shining moments amidst the general mediocrity.)

The Avengers wasn't much longer (2h 23m), and still managed to find time to fit in character and plot elements without feeling rushed or over-reliant on exposition dumps (YMMV, of course). It's increasingly clear that this is one of those "Marvel only makes it look easy" kind of things. I imagine it would be fascinating to sit in a film class comparing failed DC movie scenes and comparable Marvel movie scenes.

I'm still probably going to see it, eventually... Some people in my household who are seriously jonesing for more of Godot's Wonder Womaan. But it's going to wait for a second-run theater, or a cheap matinee at best.

After BvS I don't have any interest in this stuff whatsoever. I haven't seen the Suicide Squad or Wonder Woman, and the latter one is supposedly good. I don't plan to see those movies either. I just don't want to waste my time on any of the crap related to BvS.

"So that's it huh? We're some kind of Justice League?"

"Nah, more Just-arse League."

Thaluikhain:
How many expected this movie to be good?

Hurr... wundur womyn wuz gud so dis jus-tiss leege ting wil b gud.

Probably an actual comment somewhere on Twatter.

But for anyone without impaired higher brain functions, a movie in which they obviously intended to introduce two new characters to the 'verse without prequel films for said characters was obviously going to run into issues caused by the story compression WB would have to do to fit in said introductions and the actual fucking plot.

And honestly its really bizarre that they fucked it up too, because when you peek behind the scenes you see most of the people who worked on Justice League also worked on Wonder Woman.

But anyway Justice League is on its way to bombing in its opening weekend. Whether or not thats a good thing... i really do not care because they sure as fuck arent gonna stop trying to pull the rug out from under Disney/Marvel.

Samtemdo8:
I told everyone that the tonal shift will happen since it switched directors who are polar opposites and the re-shoots.

Now I am gonna have sit through the most cringeworthy of Joss Wheadon's quips.

Its the same movie from Zack. The only thing different is some reshot scenes and a few quips. Having quips in something isn't a bad thing. Heck, the Justice League cartoon had a few jokes here and there. The only problem is I don't think Joss Whedon could have saved this movie from its own problems.

Samtemdo8:
I told everyone that the tonal shift will happen since it switched directors who are polar opposites and the re-shoots.

Now I am gonna have sit through the most cringeworthy of Joss Wheadon's quips.

No, you don't get to say 'I told you so' with a WB/DC film with tonal issues... Methinks we've been there before. Hell, bar Wonder Woman, did we ever leave that place? The entire continuity is riven with an identity crisis. A crisis that could be considered inf--

...erm, you get the idea.

I would say Joss is a bad fit for the DC-a-verse, but so far only one director's been a half-decent fit, and that's Patty Jenkins. Maybe they should just stick to a Wonder Woman continuity.

/edit - oh, Kermode's review was amusingly dispirited/exasperated/bored:

Natemans:

Samtemdo8:
I told everyone that the tonal shift will happen since it switched directors who are polar opposites and the re-shoots.

Now I am gonna have sit through the most cringeworthy of Joss Wheadon's quips.

Its the same movie from Zack. The only thing different is some reshot scenes and a few quips. Having quips in something isn't a bad thing. Heck, the Justice League cartoon had a few jokes here and there. The only problem is I don't think Joss Whedon could have saved this movie from its own problems.

Its not so much quips in of itself and more the timing of it, being a smart ass quiper in the middle of what is supposed to be a dramatic event takes away any and all tension.

Darth Rosenberg:

Samtemdo8:
I told everyone that the tonal shift will happen since it switched directors who are polar opposites and the re-shoots.

Now I am gonna have sit through the most cringeworthy of Joss Wheadon's quips.

No, you don't get to say 'I told you so' with a WB/DC film with tonal issues... Methinks we've been there before. Hell, bar Wonder Woman, did we ever leave that place? The entire continuity is riven with an identity crisis. A crisis that could be considered inf--

...erm, you get the idea.

I would say Joss is a bad fit for the DC-a-verse, but so far only one director's been a half-decent fit, and that's Patty Jenkins. Maybe they should just stick to a Wonder Woman continuity.

/edit - oh, Kermode's review was amusingly dispirited/exasperated/bored:

Hello to Jason Isaacs.

Pfff. Wake me up when it's Batman vs Predator.

Your description reminds me of some anime I watched in the early 90s.

I don't think anyone expected this movie to be particularly good. We had all seen the tone and direction of the previous entries (except WW), so we knew how this was going to turn out even before it had been announced.

I for one actually enjoyed it. I gave it a chance and have to say if the rest of the movies were in this tone, DC wouldn't be in this situation. It does have pace problems, but I didn't think it was unwatchable or unenjoyable. This is the first movie in the entire series that Superman actually feels like Superman and not Mopeman. He actually feels hopeful and kind of a dork. Hell he even pulls out the whole, "I Can Break Batman If I Damn Well Feel Like IT!" to appeal to you fanboys who get mad about the whole Batman beating him thing.

If it keeps going forward at the same tone and such as this, I think DC will be come out in the end, finish strong after a really rocky start. Also keeping the director consistent.

BTW speaking of that, Joss really didn't make too many changes. Seriously most of the Jokes and quips were already present in those earlier trailers before Joss even came on. The reshoots were not anything too drastic. Aside for some recoloring and brightening I seriously do not think that Joss changed anything.

Zach is very capable of making lighter toned films, and this certainly felt like that, it certainly didn't feel as light and crazy as Thor Ragnarok. It was what it needed to be. now they just have to keep it going.

Besides it doesn't matter, the damn movie costed like 300 million dollars, it'll have to make some serious bank to break even and that's improbable just with how huge that budget is.

mariosonicfan5:
Besides it doesn't matter, the damn movie costed like 300 million dollars, it'll have to make some serious bank to break even and that's improbable just with how huge that budget is.

Yeah, it'll have to pull Avengers-numbers to break even. That seems unlikely, given DC/WB track record.

Eh, IDK, I thought it was on par with the first Avengers and better then the second, though I fully admit I'm a fanboy.

It was disappointingly ok. Not a very memorable movie. I don't think there was a single thing in the movie that really stood out to me.

It was also really annoying how much they sucked Superman's dick. I mean it's understandable, many people thought they fucked up his character in previous movies so they needed to low key retcon him, but it was a little too much at times.

Bob_McMillan:

It was also really annoying how much they sucked Superman's dick.

...why did I read that and immediately think of Lois Lane? 0_0

It looks bad, visually, which is insane given how much money was spent on this.

I've seen some of the screenshots of the CGI and I thought I was looking at some SyFy channel shit.

Maybe it looks better in action, but...I don't know.

A lot of the film was just so unmemorably mediocre, and the rest was terrible.

The CGI looks like it was ripped straight from a videogame trailer by Blur, the action was never cool, it was never funny, and there were never any stakes.

The "Big Twist" that Superman comes back is so predicatable, that it can barely be classified as one, and once the guy came back, he made the rest of the team entirely pointless.

He is faster than The Flash, he is stronger than Wonder Woman and Aquaman combined, Cyborg does little more than be a plot macguffin who just stands there and hacks into things, and Batman just... what did he do in this film, again?

And yeah, no stakes. The entire Justice League is struggling to fight this Steppenwolf CG monster, and then Superman just flies in all like "Oh, it looks like you are having trouble with that" and just nails the guy in one hit. Power creep, much.

Not to mention that they have already brought a character back from the dead. Oh no, Batman, that was so selfless of you to put yourself in so much danger. But it doesn't matter, because even if he did die, you can just stick him in the goo, and all will be well, again.

Its just a big ball of bleh.

Dont watch this terrible movie.

Laggyteabag:

Dont watch this terrible movie.

Coming from someone that has a Legend of Korra avatar...

Let's be honest. Once they mentioned reshoots, you knew that this was fuxed.
I know some people thought. But WW.
Here's the thing. WW wasn't a great movie. It was servicable, competant and just slightly above average. The problem is , slightly above average makes it a sghining diamond in the DCEU which again tells the state of it. I think its the mentality honestly.
Marvel did the avengers with their Band C list heroes at the time. I.e the licenses that no onme else thought was worth buying. And they made bank on it. DC is trying to do this with A listers and fails. WEHy? DC was iun too much of a hurry and thusly nmever took the time to establish a tone . But then again they had a hard time figuring which iteration of the charcters to bring out. Their characters and their relationships have go through so many shifts that the comics themselves don't have a universal tone.

DC saw Avengers and then said we gonna do that and took the fastest possible route. If DC was smart they would have done a FLash, Aquaman, and Cyborg movie before hand. WOuld have also recommended a proper superman movie and a proper batman movie. SHut up you know that Man of Steel mnovie was crap and only one of the DK trilogy was actually good. The first was just an okay film and the third was a mess.

Secondly they blew their load too early with the Death of superman. A superman we haven't known long enough to give a rats ass about.

How it should have been done.

A Re-boot batman film.
A Wonder woman film
An Aquaman Film.
A Cyborg Film
A Flash Film

Where you can have supes cameo in each of them. Perhaps working with the heroes as he tries to find other like-minded souls to help in his mission to protect humanity.

Then you do Justice League, wherein Superman dies at the hands of whatever, perhaps via sacrifice, a sacrifice made with the confidence of knowing that humanity will have protectors. Bam. Start printing money.

The lead up films are important for establishing and refining tone, aesthetics and story beats. Those are the films you make your mistakes in and tweak.

Darth Rosenberg:
No, you don't get to say 'I told you so' with a WB/DC film with tonal issues... Methinks we've been there before. Hell, bar Wonder Woman, did we ever leave that place? The entire continuity is riven with an identity crisis. A crisis that could be considered inf--

I'd go so far to say tonal issues are just embedded in the source material ever since Batman became "The Dark Knight". Certainly since he became the keynote player in film.

You have 4-6 people in neon spandex, with esoteric pulp schlock origins and nonsense. Trying to ram into the universe of broody mcdark brood and his cold grim reality.

Within the comics, its usually that Batman is the external component, the strange intruder into a generally hopeful world that often embraces heroes. In Snyderverse, Batman's world is the entire world, and the more optimistic heroes are the outsiders to it. Characters are either remolded to fit into the Universe, or seem entirely out of place in it as much as the regular heroes were out of place in the Injustice universe when they crossed into it.

I fucking read Justice League and I have no interest in this movie. Really hope WB takes a long hard look at what they're doing after this fails to perform to their expectations.

Seth Carter:
I'd go so far to say tonal issues are just embedded in the source material ever since Batman became "The Dark Knight". Certainly since he became the keynote player in film.

You have 4-6 people in neon spandex, with esoteric pulp schlock origins and nonsense. Trying to ram into the universe of broody mcdark brood and his cold grim reality.

And that's partly why I believe Snyder's a slightly idiotic hack, because it's his macho angsty proto-fascist/1% chance-neocon BS that's shaped the Don't Care Extended Universe (thanks Half In The Bag for that twist on cinematic DC), and if they truly intended to build to the Justice League from mopey Supes' debut, then sure, it was doomed from the start.

Everything I've heard about Justice League suggests it's trying its hardest to pretend everyone's misremembering MoS and BvS's events and tone, but given a more The Avengers-y tone seems to be the positive take-away from JL, the future might look brighter (tonally and literally).

It was always possible to do a more hopeful version of the Justice League. Regardless, Justice League seems a monumental generic ho-hum mess even putting aside tonal mismatches.

I assume Joss Whedon is still doing a Batgirl flick? He's not quite done a Harvey Weinstein/Kevin Spacey, but his reputation's taken a major hit, and having JL on his CV won't exactly help that. I've heard JL is very leery over Wonder Woman (male gaze, anyone?), and I, erm, wonder who's responsible for those shots - Snyder, or Joss. Either way, I'm not exactly looking forward to Batgirl anymore given the state of the DCEU and the accusations about Joss.

Darth Rosenberg:

Seth Carter:
I'd go so far to say tonal issues are just embedded in the source material ever since Batman became "The Dark Knight". Certainly since he became the keynote player in film.

You have 4-6 people in neon spandex, with esoteric pulp schlock origins and nonsense. Trying to ram into the universe of broody mcdark brood and his cold grim reality.

And that's partly why I believe Snyder's a slightly idiotic hack, because it's his macho angsty proto-fascist/1% chance-neocon BS that's shaped the Don't Care Extended Universe (thanks Half In The Bag for that twist on cinematic DC), and if they truly intended to build to the Justice League from mopey Supes' debut, then sure, it was doomed from the start.

Everything I've heard about Justice League suggests it's trying its hardest to pretend everyone's misremembering MoS and BvS's events and tone, but given a more The Avengers-y tone seems to be the positive take-away from JL, the future might look brighter (tonally and literally).

It was always possible to do a more hopeful version of the Justice League. Regardless, Justice League seems a monumental generic ho-hum mess even putting aside tonal mismatches.

I assume Joss Whedon is still doing a Batgirl flick? He's not quite done a Harvey Weinstein/Kevin Spacey, but his reputation's taken a major hit, and having JL on his CV won't exactly help that. I've heard JL is very leery over Wonder Woman (male gaze, anyone?), and I, erm, wonder who's responsible for those shots - Snyder, or Joss. Either way, I'm not exactly looking forward to Batgirl anymore given the state of the DCEU and the accusations about Joss.

Ok 1. Zack Snyder is not a facist or even a proto facist, Why are you trying to make Masculinity/Machoness and Facism as equals or overlaps each other, infact why are you bringing a political angle into this?

2. As I supsected about Justice League being more Avengers-y in tone with the switch in directors and constant re-shoots. I also partly blame Geoff Johns for this issue aswell. I suspected it would happen when they showed the first teaser poster for Justice Leauge beintg all colorful and such.

3. When has Joss Wheadon's reputation been tarnished?

Darth Rosenberg:

Seth Carter:
I'd go so far to say tonal issues are just embedded in the source material ever since Batman became "The Dark Knight". Certainly since he became the keynote player in film.

You have 4-6 people in neon spandex, with esoteric pulp schlock origins and nonsense. Trying to ram into the universe of broody mcdark brood and his cold grim reality.

And that's partly why I believe Snyder's a slightly idiotic hack, because it's his macho angsty proto-fascist/1% chance-neocon BS that's shaped the Don't Care Extended Universe (thanks Half In The Bag for that twist on cinematic DC), and if they truly intended to build to the Justice League from mopey Supes' debut, then sure, it was doomed from the start.

Everything I've heard about Justice League suggests it's trying its hardest to pretend everyone's misremembering MoS and BvS's events and tone, but given a more The Avengers-y tone seems to be the positive take-away from JL, the future might look brighter (tonally and literally).

It was always possible to do a more hopeful version of the Justice League. Regardless, Justice League seems a monumental generic ho-hum mess even putting aside tonal mismatches.

I assume Joss Whedon is still doing a Batgirl flick? He's not quite done a Harvey Weinstein/Kevin Spacey, but his reputation's taken a major hit, and having JL on his CV won't exactly help that. I've heard JL is very leery over Wonder Woman (male gaze, anyone?), and I, erm, wonder who's responsible for those shots - Snyder, or Joss. Either way, I'm not exactly looking forward to Batgirl anymore given the state of the DCEU and the accusations about Joss.

Man of Steel sort of basically hangs together until it stops being a Clark Kent movie and starts being a Superman movie.

Samtemdo8:

Darth Rosenberg:

Seth Carter:
I'd go so far to say tonal issues are just embedded in the source material ever since Batman became "The Dark Knight". Certainly since he became the keynote player in film.

You have 4-6 people in neon spandex, with esoteric pulp schlock origins and nonsense. Trying to ram into the universe of broody mcdark brood and his cold grim reality.

And that's partly why I believe Snyder's a slightly idiotic hack, because it's his macho angsty proto-fascist/1% chance-neocon BS that's shaped the Don't Care Extended Universe (thanks Half In The Bag for that twist on cinematic DC), and if they truly intended to build to the Justice League from mopey Supes' debut, then sure, it was doomed from the start.

Everything I've heard about Justice League suggests it's trying its hardest to pretend everyone's misremembering MoS and BvS's events and tone, but given a more The Avengers-y tone seems to be the positive take-away from JL, the future might look brighter (tonally and literally).

It was always possible to do a more hopeful version of the Justice League. Regardless, Justice League seems a monumental generic ho-hum mess even putting aside tonal mismatches.

I assume Joss Whedon is still doing a Batgirl flick? He's not quite done a Harvey Weinstein/Kevin Spacey, but his reputation's taken a major hit, and having JL on his CV won't exactly help that. I've heard JL is very leery over Wonder Woman (male gaze, anyone?), and I, erm, wonder who's responsible for those shots - Snyder, or Joss. Either way, I'm not exactly looking forward to Batgirl anymore given the state of the DCEU and the accusations about Joss.

Ok 1. Zack Snyder is not a facist or even a proto facist, Why are you trying to make Masculinity/Machoness and Facism as equals or overlaps each other, infact why are you bringing a political angle into this?

2. As I supsected about Justice League being more Avengers-y in tone with the switch in directors and constant re-shoots. I also partly blame Geoff Johns for this issue aswell. I suspected it would happen when they showed the first teaser poster for Justice Leauge beintg all colorful and such.

3. When has Joss Wheadon's reputation been tarnished?

1. I agree. He's not a fascist. I dislike a lot of Zack Snyder's filmmaking, but he's not a fascist.

2. Justice League was meant to have this lighter tone by the studio because of the backlash for Batman v Superman and its tone was more like this way before Joss came in for reshoots. I find it funny you bring up Geoff Johns since some of his current stuff have been a bit violent or off-putting.

3. Well, the recent news about his ex-wife kinda hit his reputation as a feminist very badly. Also people are throwing a fit that he liked a tweet that criticized Steppenwolf as a shit villain.

Natemans:

Samtemdo8:

Darth Rosenberg:
And that's partly why I believe Snyder's a slightly idiotic hack, because it's his macho angsty proto-fascist/1% chance-neocon BS that's shaped the Don't Care Extended Universe (thanks Half In The Bag for that twist on cinematic DC), and if they truly intended to build to the Justice League from mopey Supes' debut, then sure, it was doomed from the start.

Everything I've heard about Justice League suggests it's trying its hardest to pretend everyone's misremembering MoS and BvS's events and tone, but given a more The Avengers-y tone seems to be the positive take-away from JL, the future might look brighter (tonally and literally).

It was always possible to do a more hopeful version of the Justice League. Regardless, Justice League seems a monumental generic ho-hum mess even putting aside tonal mismatches.

I assume Joss Whedon is still doing a Batgirl flick? He's not quite done a Harvey Weinstein/Kevin Spacey, but his reputation's taken a major hit, and having JL on his CV won't exactly help that. I've heard JL is very leery over Wonder Woman (male gaze, anyone?), and I, erm, wonder who's responsible for those shots - Snyder, or Joss. Either way, I'm not exactly looking forward to Batgirl anymore given the state of the DCEU and the accusations about Joss.

Ok 1. Zack Snyder is not a facist or even a proto facist, Why are you trying to make Masculinity/Machoness and Facism as equals or overlaps each other, infact why are you bringing a political angle into this?

2. As I supsected about Justice League being more Avengers-y in tone with the switch in directors and constant re-shoots. I also partly blame Geoff Johns for this issue aswell. I suspected it would happen when they showed the first teaser poster for Justice Leauge beintg all colorful and such.

3. When has Joss Wheadon's reputation been tarnished?

1. I agree. He's not a fascist. I dislike a lot of Zack Snyder's filmmaking, but he's not a fascist.

2. Justice League was meant to have this lighter tone by the studio because of the backlash for Batman v Superman and its tone was more like this way before Joss came in for reshoots. I find it funny you bring up Geoff Johns since some of his current stuff have been a bit violent or off-putting.

3. Well, the recent news about his ex-wife kinda hit his reputation as a feminist very badly. Also people are throwing a fit that he liked a tweet that criticized Steppenwolf as a shit villain.

On 2. Thing is I remember Geoff Johns in a news article saying that he thinks DC's tonal direction they went with the first 3 movies was wrong.

3. But how does this affects his reputation as a film-maker?

I heard someone describe it as such:

"Compared to Batman v Superman: it's Wonder Woman. Compared to Wonder Woman: it's Batman v Superman."

The long and short of it is that Joss is a good director, but not a miracle worker. The real issue is that WB sank this universe when they hitched it to Snyder's wagon. It was doomed from the start. Wonder Woman was a spark of greatness, but that's all they've got.

Hehe, one thing I do find funny is how Ben is running away from his role in these films as fast as he can. It's painfully obvious that he's realized he made a terrible mistake by signing up to play Bats, and he just wants to gtfo as quickly as possible.

They should have gone this route with the movie.
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