We Need More Gamers

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We Need More Gamers

The more people become interested in gaming, the less people will be writing idiotic laws and making ignorant policies to protect us from an imaginary threat.

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Yeah, those damn golfers!
always knew there was something funny about them...

I love table top games yet make fun of LARPers, does this make me bad?

Got a nice laugh over your maneuver to close by mocking your opening. I do get sick of hearing people complaining about video gaming and the like. I agree with introducing outsiders by starting them off in familiar territory, as crossing boundaries too early can lead to yet more stupidity (an instance of a high school crusade against animal violence comes to mind.)

I agree entirely. And you know what would be a good start? If some adventurous gamer got into politics or entrepreneurship, so there's higher ups 'in the know'. So there's someone on the senate, in the house of commons, someone that can stand up and say "I am a gamer, and I do not approve of this condescending!"

The fact that a gamer even got into such a position, making such a fact known, would cause people to stand back and think: if all that bad stuff they heard about gaming was true, could a gamer really get into politics?

Or we could...well...give out free Wii's and DS's. Lets give Jack Thompson a Wii and Wii Sports. I'm sure he has plenty of time on his hands these days, when he isn't busy trying to pass bills and get people to pay attention to him.

DeadlyYellow:
I love table top games yet make fun of LARPers, does this make me bad?

Nope. Table top games are pretty normal, maybe they are "next to geekery". LARP crosses the line, just a little bit.

edit: I detest using the term "gamer" and "Wii" in the same sentence. Someone playing Wii Sports has no idea what's a normal game like.

Wii is not crucial to gaming. Motion control? Has been done with those guns that were used to point at the TV screen and shoot ducks off. No to mention that mouse is a superior controler in every way.

"Instead of tinkering with ham radio, he could try to figure out how to get Crysis to run."

I found that funnier than you probably meant it to be. Anyway, I agree whole-heartily with your ideas, but I'm getting a lot of deja vu from your article on casual gamers.

Amen the barrier that is gaming is more lazy than tv should be gone, although games could stop asking for media anger, but then again i am someone who would gladly sacrifice things like GTA for better opions on gaming

Abedeus:

DeadlyYellow:
I love table top games yet make fun of LARPers, does this make me bad?

edit: I detest using the term "gamer" and "Wii" in the same sentence. Someone playing Wii Sports has no idea what's a normal game like.

Wii is not crucial to gaming. Motion control? Has been done with those guns that were used to point at the TV screen and shoot ducks off. No to mention that mouse is a superior controler in every way.

Whether you like it or not, the Wii IS a gaming console, and the Wiimote IS a gaming device. What you mentioned with the ducks is also a game and the practice of doing so is also gaming. Wii Sports and any other game making use of the Wiimote IS just as much a normal game as any game using a control pad. I can't even think of why any intelligent gamer would dismiss the Wii as a gaming console, especially since its the most gaming-oriented console of this generation.

I would go so far as to say the Wii is the MOST crucial system to gaming in this console generation. Take a look at the XBox 360 and PS3. Both consoles focused on taking steps AWAY from gaming and becoming a full 'media center'. Being able to play DVD's and blu-ray movies is not crucial to gaming. The Wii, through its use of the wiimote, actually made steps to make gaming more available to everyone, thus a crucial step for the gaming culture as a whole. Its an easier interface for people to adapt to than the standard video game controller, which is why the Wii is as successful as it is.

Just because it doesn't have as many games people would consider 'hardcore' as the other two systems doesn't make it any less of a gaming system or any less crucial to gaming.

Rodger:

Abedeus:

DeadlyYellow:
I love table top games yet make fun of LARPers, does this make me bad?

edit: I detest using the term "gamer" and "Wii" in the same sentence. Someone playing Wii Sports has no idea what's a normal game like.

Wii is not crucial to gaming. Motion control? Has been done with those guns that were used to point at the TV screen and shoot ducks off. No to mention that mouse is a superior controler in every way.

Whether you like it or not, the Wii IS a gaming console, and the Wiimote IS a gaming device. What you mentioned with the ducks is also a game and the practice of doing so is also gaming. Wii Sports and any other game making use of the Wiimote IS just as much a normal game as any game using a control pad. I can't even think of why any intelligent gamer would dismiss the Wii as a gaming console, especially since its the most gaming-oriented console of this generation.

Kudos for insulting me so that a mod won't notice. The most gaming-oriented console? How about Xbox 360? Hardly a "movie" device, since most of the people already had a DvD player before buying it. Only PS3 can run Blu-rays. Also, Wii is for old people and kids. Even statistics show this.

I would go so far as to say the Wii is the MOST crucial system to gaming in this console generation. Take a look at the XBox 360 and PS3. Both consoles focused on taking steps AWAY from gaming and becoming a full 'media center'. Being able to play DVD's and blu-ray movies is not crucial to gaming. The Wii, through its use of the wiimote, actually made steps to make gaming more available to everyone, thus a crucial step for the gaming culture as a whole. Its an easier interface for people to adapt to than the standard video game controller, which is why the Wii is as successful as it is.

Better controls don't equal better gameplay. Like someone wise said, random stick waggling replaced random joystick waggling. Also, what's wrong when a console (like a PC, or a PS3) tries doing something more than just gaming? I'd say that's a better thing than just playing - at least you are using it for something more. That's like buying a $3000 PC and using it only for games.

Just because it doesn't have as many games people would consider 'hardcore' as the other two systems doesn't make it any less of a gaming system or any less crucial to gaming.

Actually, it kinda does. It's appealing to oldies and kids. People who have THE LEAST to do with gaming.

I thought this was a great article. I love playing games such as Call of Duty 4 and hearing someone who is performing poorly use the excuse "You probably play this game more than me!" or "At least I have a life". I Counter them back with, "What about athletes or musicians? They play sports and write songs all day. They must have no life as well". Most people seem to relate gaming to being a nerd/geek (which I probably am), but this is hardly the case any more. Video games are growing more popular than TV and movies, but I'm not sure if it's for better or worse.

Abedeus:

Rodger:

Abedeus:

DeadlyYellow:
I love table top games yet make fun of LARPers, does this make me bad?

edit: I detest using the term "gamer" and "Wii" in the same sentence. Someone playing Wii Sports has no idea what's a normal game like.

Wii is not crucial to gaming. Motion control? Has been done with those guns that were used to point at the TV screen and shoot ducks off. No to mention that mouse is a superior controler in every way.

Whether you like it or not, the Wii IS a gaming console, and the Wiimote IS a gaming device. What you mentioned with the ducks is also a game and the practice of doing so is also gaming. Wii Sports and any other game making use of the Wiimote IS just as much a normal game as any game using a control pad. I can't even think of why any intelligent gamer would dismiss the Wii as a gaming console, especially since its the most gaming-oriented console of this generation.

Kudos for insulting me so that a mod won't notice. The most gaming-oriented console? How about Xbox 360? Hardly a "movie" device, since most of the people already had a DvD player before buying it. Only PS3 can run Blu-rays. Also, Wii is for old people and kids. Even statistics show this.

I would go so far as to say the Wii is the MOST crucial system to gaming in this console generation. Take a look at the XBox 360 and PS3. Both consoles focused on taking steps AWAY from gaming and becoming a full 'media center'. Being able to play DVD's and blu-ray movies is not crucial to gaming. The Wii, through its use of the wiimote, actually made steps to make gaming more available to everyone, thus a crucial step for the gaming culture as a whole. Its an easier interface for people to adapt to than the standard video game controller, which is why the Wii is as successful as it is.

Better controls don't equal better gameplay. Like someone wise said, random stick waggling replaced random joystick waggling. Also, what's wrong when a console (like a PC, or a PS3) tries doing something more than just gaming? I'd say that's a better thing than just playing - at least you are using it for something more. That's like buying a $3000 PC and using it only for games.

Just because it doesn't have as many games people would consider 'hardcore' as the other two systems doesn't make it any less of a gaming system or any less crucial to gaming.

Actually, it kinda does. It's appealing to oldies and kids. People who have THE LEAST to do with gaming.

The people who have THE LEAST to do with gaming? Actually they have PLENTY to do with gaming. Bringing gaming away from the 'Hardcore' group and making it appeal to kids, again, and for the first time the 50+ year old crowd actually is bringing a huge increase in the population of gamers. The vast majority of gamers will choose what is next... Is the Wii a valid system? Of course. Hell it plays Resident Evil IV and has a few cool exclusive titles to it to appeal to some of the adult gamers as well.

Whichever system brings the crowds in, is crucial to gaming. Sorry to tell you this, but it is the Wii at the moment.

GamerMom:

Abedeus:

Rodger:

Abedeus:

DeadlyYellow:
I love table top games yet make fun of LARPers, does this make me bad?

edit: I detest using the term "gamer" and "Wii" in the same sentence. Someone playing Wii Sports has no idea what's a normal game like.

Wii is not crucial to gaming. Motion control? Has been done with those guns that were used to point at the TV screen and shoot ducks off. No to mention that mouse is a superior controler in every way.

Whether you like it or not, the Wii IS a gaming console, and the Wiimote IS a gaming device. What you mentioned with the ducks is also a game and the practice of doing so is also gaming. Wii Sports and any other game making use of the Wiimote IS just as much a normal game as any game using a control pad. I can't even think of why any intelligent gamer would dismiss the Wii as a gaming console, especially since its the most gaming-oriented console of this generation.

Kudos for insulting me so that a mod won't notice. The most gaming-oriented console? How about Xbox 360? Hardly a "movie" device, since most of the people already had a DvD player before buying it. Only PS3 can run Blu-rays. Also, Wii is for old people and kids. Even statistics show this.

I would go so far as to say the Wii is the MOST crucial system to gaming in this console generation. Take a look at the XBox 360 and PS3. Both consoles focused on taking steps AWAY from gaming and becoming a full 'media center'. Being able to play DVD's and blu-ray movies is not crucial to gaming. The Wii, through its use of the wiimote, actually made steps to make gaming more available to everyone, thus a crucial step for the gaming culture as a whole. Its an easier interface for people to adapt to than the standard video game controller, which is why the Wii is as successful as it is.

Better controls don't equal better gameplay. Like someone wise said, random stick waggling replaced random joystick waggling. Also, what's wrong when a console (like a PC, or a PS3) tries doing something more than just gaming? I'd say that's a better thing than just playing - at least you are using it for something more. That's like buying a $3000 PC and using it only for games.

Just because it doesn't have as many games people would consider 'hardcore' as the other two systems doesn't make it any less of a gaming system or any less crucial to gaming.

Actually, it kinda does. It's appealing to oldies and kids. People who have THE LEAST to do with gaming.

The people who have THE LEAST to do with gaming? Actually they have PLENTY to do with gaming. Bringing gaming away from the 'Hardcore' group and making it appeal to kids, again, and for the first time the 50+ year old crowd actually is bringing a huge increase in the population of gamers. The vast majority of gamers will choose what is next... Is the Wii a valid system? Of course. Hell it plays Resident Evil IV and has a few cool exclusive titles to it to appeal to some of the adult gamers as well.

Sorry, but children have little to do with the image we want. We want to show games as mature form of art, like Mass Effect or Fallout 3. Not Zelda, not Mario.

Wii has a lot of "leftovers" - overused game series, made just to please the fans. And it's really hard to find something good + new + original.

Oh, and I would play any Xbox 360/PS3 exlusive over a Wii exclusive. Gears of War, Fable, Metal Gear Solid, Little Big Planet...

Also, oldies don't have anything to do with gaming.

Whichever system brings the crowds in, is crucial to gaming. Sorry to tell you this, but it is the Wii at the moment.

No. The system that brings the crows in is a sellout. Or a console for fans, COUGH sonic COUGH mario.

We don't necessarily need more gamers. What we need is less oblivious, propertied old people who think a Christian Iran would the best place to raise their spoiled, irrelevant children.

Today is Happy Day! XD

*scratches head* Ooooookay, so new gamers (I don't care about their age really) don't matter? Sorry sweetie, but they do :) Sure games can be a form of art. However to deny a lot of gamers their original beginnings(guess what, most of us that were born in the late 70's and early 80's started on Mario and Zelda) is a sign of arrogance and elitism. Sure, I love Metal Gear Solid series...I played Mass Effect, Fallout 3, and the what not. So what makes the Wii less than a PS3 or an Xbox? Nothing really. Just a different format.

Sure accuse the Wii of being a sellout...but it brings in games that attract a wide variety of users to it. Technically, wasn't the PS1 a sellout for taking video gamers away from kids and nerds, attracting the high-school and college crowd to gaming? Or the Xbox? Hell every console is a sell out :)

@Abedeus

Who says "we" want to show games as a mature form of art? Did designers want to show Starcraft as a mature form of art? Did they want to show Tetris as a mature form of art? I don't want amazing graphics if the game play is going to be trash. Graphics are like the ice cream that goes with the cake.

I will agree that the Wii is primarily focused on the casual gaming crowd, but that is a marketing technique that is working for Nintendo. Do you think casual gamers really care if the system has Gamecube graphics? They just want to play games to have fun (which is what I thought gaming is all about, but apparently it's about art).

Abedeus:

Rodger:

Abedeus:

DeadlyYellow:
I love table top games yet make fun of LARPers, does this make me bad?

edit: I detest using the term "gamer" and "Wii" in the same sentence. Someone playing Wii Sports has no idea what's a normal game like.

Wii is not crucial to gaming. Motion control? Has been done with those guns that were used to point at the TV screen and shoot ducks off. No to mention that mouse is a superior controler in every way.

Whether you like it or not, the Wii IS a gaming console, and the Wiimote IS a gaming device. What you mentioned with the ducks is also a game and the practice of doing so is also gaming. Wii Sports and any other game making use of the Wiimote IS just as much a normal game as any game using a control pad. I can't even think of why any intelligent gamer would dismiss the Wii as a gaming console, especially since its the most gaming-oriented console of this generation.

Kudos for insulting me so that a mod won't notice. The most gaming-oriented console? How about Xbox 360? Hardly a "movie" device, since most of the people already had a DvD player before buying it. Only PS3 can run Blu-rays. Also, Wii is for old people and kids. Even statistics show this.

I didn't say it was a movie device. I said they were moving away from gaming while adding nothing to the gaming experience. The only 'major' step forward for either the 360 or the PS3 were enhanced graphics and, overall, better hardware, though thats to be expected anyway. Graphics, however, are only icing on the gaming cake. Gameplay and actually having fun are central to gaming. And before you say it, no, I'm not saying 360 and PS3 games aren't fun, they just haven't tried to do anything to make games more fun. Like adding a new input device. And there is nothing wrong with making gaming more open to a larger audience. Kids play games anyway. Keep in mind that all games and gaming systems are, at their very core, toys, and kids play with toys. Old people play games? More power to them. Now they have an idea as to why we sit around in the house playing games all day instead of going outside. Because its fun.

I would go so far as to say the Wii is the MOST crucial system to gaming in this console generation. Take a look at the XBox 360 and PS3. Both consoles focused on taking steps AWAY from gaming and becoming a full 'media center'. Being able to play DVD's and blu-ray movies is not crucial to gaming. The Wii, through its use of the wiimote, actually made steps to make gaming more available to everyone, thus a crucial step for the gaming culture as a whole. Its an easier interface for people to adapt to than the standard video game controller, which is why the Wii is as successful as it is.

Better controls don't equal better gameplay. Like someone wise said, random stick waggling replaced random joystick waggling. Also, what's wrong when a console (like a PC, or a PS3) tries doing something more than just gaming? I'd say that's a better thing than just playing - at least you are using it for something more. That's like buying a $3000 PC and using it only for games.

I don't think you realize what you just said there by saying "better controls don't equal better gameplay", but I know what you're actually trying to say. And wise as that man might be, I'm inclined to disagree with that statement. It carries as much weight as accusing other games of implementing random analog stick pushing or button mashing. The waggling is hardly random, for one, except in games where it hasn't been implemented very well. Two, it actually adds a new way to play games, a way thats easier and, dare I say it, even more fun at times if they're implemented well. And nothing is wrong with doing more than gaming, however doing more than gaming is not crucial to gaming, nor does it add anything to gaming. The issue is that it doesn't add or subtract anything from the gaming experience. Zero gain for gaming.

Just because it doesn't have as many games people would consider 'hardcore' as the other two systems doesn't make it any less of a gaming system or any less crucial to gaming.

Actually, it kinda does. It's appealing to oldies and kids. People who have THE LEAST to do with gaming.

Ok, hold on there pal. Who died and appointed hardcore gamers, a minority group ever since the PSOne came along, king of gamers? Hardcore gamers are content on playing the same game being released over and over with an increasing number on the end. I'm sure a certain wise man you mentioned before touched on that subject. There is no one that has more or less to do with gaming than anyone else. Gamers are people who play games, regardless of age or sex. Being 'hardcore' doesn't make you or any other hardcore gamer anymore of a gamer than the old guy who plays the Wii because he has fun with the boxing game and can play it with his grandson.

And by the way, kids have a LOT more to do with gaming than any of these self-appointed 'hardcore' gamers. As I mentioned before, games and gaming consoles are TOYS. Accept it. Embrace it. You're playing with a toy. Games are, and were, designed FOR kids. These days they just happen to be designed with a larger age group in mind as well, but they are not the core audience, and they are not the most crucial to gaming. Advancing gaming as a medium means kids, soccer moms, and old folks need to be able to get into it too. And they're not going to want to pick up the latest iteration in the Halo or Killzone franchise. Gaming is not going to advance as a culture if it limits itself to a 'hardcore' gaming audience.

Games are about having FUN and thus THATS whats crucial to gaming, regardless of who is having it and what game they are having it with. There will be people who find shooting other people to be fun, but they are a small slice of the pie and in no way representative of gaming as a whole. The only ones who think that are them and the groups that want to ban violent video games.

By the way, as an aside, the only games you mentioned to "GamerMom" that appeal to me, personally, would be Little Big Planet. Or at least, only one I'd be willing to give a shot. The jump physics look a bit sketchy for a platformer. Just as an aside, though, such a game on the Wii would likely be labelled "shovelware" by the hardcore gamers and tossed aside. Double standard much?

@wowcrendor:

I think it is about fun as well :D Heck as soon as my kids are out of their toddler years, I am going to let them play video games :P

@Rodger:

Well spoken. *claps*

wowcrendor:

[/quote]

Who says "we" want to show games as a mature form of art? Did designers want to show Starcraft as a mature form of art? Did they want to show Tetris as a mature form of art? I don't want amazing graphics if the game play is going to be trash. Graphics are like the ice cream that goes with the cake.

I will agree that the Wii is primarily focused on the casual gaming crowd, but that is a marketing technique that is working for Nintendo. Do you think casual gamers really care if the system has Gamecube graphics? They just want to play games to have fun (which is what I thought gaming is all about, but apparently it's about art).

They didn't have the ability to show those games you mentioned in a better way. And both were milestones, as compared to *games* on Wii.

Also, not going to argue with anyone who doesn't know how to use the Quote option. Too much fixing someone's text just so I can reply.

By the time I read the second stereotypical description you listed, I knew NASCAR was going to be on the list.

I think it's possible to make anyone like almost anything they previously hated by showing them its intricacies, rewards, and appeal.

Abedeus:
Sorry, but children have little to do with the image we want. We want to show games as mature form of art, like Mass Effect or Fallout 3. Not Zelda, not Mario.

No, we want games recognized as a regular form of entertainment, not a secret Illuminati plot to turn random people into psychopathic serial killers. Art does not play into it. Is reality TV art? Yet do people claim it's corrupting our children? In fact art may be detrimental to our cause, artsy stuff usually fails at being actually enjoyable so why would these people want to join gaming if we present them with some incomprehensible inside joke that makes us look like we're martians for even knowing what it means? You give them Fallout 3, they'll go WTF and back to watching TV. Gaming has become an elaborate system of idiosyncrasies and memes that looks completely incomprehensible from the outside and that's exactly why people see gamers as alien and evil. You want people who know nothing about swimming to go right into the deep end of the pool and swim a marathon race. That just does not work and it's definitely not going to help against their fear of deep waters.

The two gaming consoles I get the most use of at my house is my nintendo wii and my PC. I love the wii because it connects me with my past and present of gaming. Sure it doesn't have top of the line graphics but if I cared about that my PC is to take care of that. Games are toys and it should be about having fun with the game you are playing. Like Tetris made me love puzzle games, Peggle(the demon game that it is) does the same thing for today's growing market. Getting a tetris is just as important to me as getting bonus ball to those who play peggle.

Also if you need to have violence to enjoy your games I think you may be missing out on a lot of games. True external conflict is the prime use of games but there is something to be said about the people who make these statments, "finally Madworld is a reason to dust off my wii." Those statements bother me just as much as the people who only use their wii to play wiisports for the same reason. Those people are not willing to get out of their comfort zone and try something different be it good or bad.

Everytime I hear people forsake the wii, I honestly think that it wasn't nintendo that turned it's back on the players. It was the players that turned its back on nintendo. For the first time video game consoles became more than toys. They became a medium back during the PS2 and Xbox something more than a video game console, they became multimedia players that the consumers accepted. This was no Phillips CD-I or playstation. This along with the new media format of DVDs allowed people to really get a 2 for 1 deal. Nintendo was the only one that did not bend. Granted there was a Panasonic dvd/gamecube console but that was Japan only and third party. Sony and Microsoft were already involved in the market of DVD players in some way, shape or form. Nintendo to this day still markets and advertises the console as a toy. 360 owners focus on netflix while the PS3 focuses on blu-ray, something more to offer consumers and it makes me ask this question, "Was it worth losing the quality of your toy just to be that movie player?" Yes there are good games on all consoles but the focus of these companies are now divided. They are no longer just toy makers, but while they branch out they forget what it is like to be a toymaker like Nintendo. Sure Nintendo is now exploring digital mediums to make the Wii more but they still involve third parties while they just focus on making more toys for consumers.

I'm 24 years old now and the nintendo is exactly what I want it to be. A toymaker.

I think the "it's not a pure game system so it's worse" argument is silly, the system still remains usable for games. To make that argument worth anything you have to point out what effects it has that you consider negative. Calling something "selling out" is even worse though, what the hell does that even mean? Yeah, so Nintendo no longer focusses on those hanafuda card things and videogames make more money than cards but why is that bad? Were you an avid fan of their cards and experienced a loss of quality when their focus shifted or something?

Hell, how did they even sell out? Selling out usually means abandoning one's values for money but what values were abandoned? "Make hardcore games" and "make games art" were never their values. Their values were always "entertainment for everybody" and now they've finally found a way to do that better. Doesn't look like selling out to me.

Abedeus:
It's appealing to oldies and kids. People who have THE LEAST to do with gaming.

That has to be the most elitist thing (along with your other posts) I saw on here. I don't think kids movies ruined movies as an art form.

ShadowKirby:

Abedeus:
It's appealing to oldies and kids. People who have THE LEAST to do with gaming.

That has to be the most elitist thing (along with your other posts) I saw on here. I don't think kids movies ruined movies as an art form.

Quite true. There should be games for all ages which is partially why there is a rating system. As a kid, I loved to play Mario, Kirby, etc. This only contributed to the gamer I am today.

@Rodger: Thank you for saying everything I would've said. Kudos to you, man

I've said this before, i'll say it again: Gaming consoles are toys, and your ps3 or xbox360 are toys just like the Wii is. I don't care how many extra features your toy has; it's still a toy, deal with it

Shamus, I love how you can turn those insufferably inexpressible thoughts that most of us would consider common sense to words. For example, I'd love to show this to my (rabidly anti-gamer) parents and teachers because it explains those seemingly obvious points that I can never really explain when prompted. Unfortunately, they'd probably just use the instances of of "foul" language (dipshit and tits) to discredit the artical, and then repremand me for reading it.

let me just get my 3 Iron (I play Golf...and Tiger Woods 06)

great article BTW. wish those o'reilley's and the like would read it though

ShadowKirby:

Abedeus:
It's appealing to oldies and kids. People who have THE LEAST to do with gaming.

That has to be the most elitist thing (along with your other posts) I saw on here. I don't think kids movies ruined movies as an art form.

Movies? I think we are talking about GAMES here. And please, you don't actually think 70+ or under 7 people actually care about gaming?

KDR_11k:

Abedeus:
Sorry, but children have little to do with the image we want. We want to show games as mature form of art, like Mass Effect or Fallout 3. Not Zelda, not Mario.

No, we want games recognized as a regular form of entertainment, not a secret Illuminati plot to turn random people into psychopathic serial killers. Art does not play into it. Is reality TV art? Yet do people claim it's corrupting our children? In fact art may be detrimental to our cause, artsy stuff usually fails at being actually enjoyable so why would these people want to join gaming if we present them with some incomprehensible inside joke that makes us look like we're martians for even knowing what it means? You give them Fallout 3, they'll go WTF and back to watching TV. Gaming has become an elaborate system of idiosyncrasies and memes that looks completely incomprehensible from the outside and that's exactly why people see gamers as alien and evil. You want people who know nothing about swimming to go right into the deep end of the pool and swim a marathon race. That just does not work and it's definitely not going to help against their fear of deep waters.

You know why people think it's corrupting the children? Because stupid parents ignore the ESRB and other ratings.

Oh, and Wii Sports won't make people look at games better. Instead, it will treat games as a funny waste of time, where people swing their remote at a screen for half an hour. No plot, no dialogs, no thoughts.

If we show games that are not only killing and looting, but also aren't too childish (because then people say "oh, so it's a toy for small kids, and you are how old?"), they would see that games aren't bad.

Look guys, there are more gamers now than ever before. Things are going to change with time, it's simply that with our current lifespans generations pass slowly. Also we are now "leapfrogging" generations. Basically there are only so many jobs (and less and less with automation) and the people holding those jobs are able to work them for a lot longer than they used to. This means that those jobs aren't availible when their kids come of age.

The thing is that gaming technology and the internet stuff primarily got going for "The Lost Generation" also known as "Generation X". Basically we're a group of lazy game-playing morons to the media because as sociologists knew before we were even born, we (as a group) never had a chance. The Baby Boomers are STILL pretty much running things and in the job force when they should have been retired. Anger, laziness, violence, angst, all of these things "characterize" Gen X (and did so before we were even out there) because the world really was against us.

"Generation Y" in comparison is going to be growing up right around the time the Baby Boomer bigwigs step down and people from the younger generation will be able to actually step up into the majority of those decent jobs. It won't be until you see this, and enough 50-60 something Gen-X and Gen-Y children in the goverment until you see major changes in attitudes and such.

Jack Thomson is an older guy, and so are the people that listen to him. What he's saying is reasonable *IF* one was to totally discount sociological predictions, and such. Games aren't responsible for a proliferation of lazy, basement dwelling losers, or violence and anger. "Society" is and there was little that could be done about it. There was no actual desicians made. To be a successful Generation Xer requires you to be pretty bloody exceptional, a lot of those jobs for normal and sub-normal people that were decently
livable are either disappearing due to automation, or still held in many cases by Boomers. Heck even when it comes to low-end jobs (hahaha that 35 year old Gen Xer works at Mcdonalds as a cashier!) you have Senior Citizens being doped up with medication and heading back into the work force.

So yeah, I'm depressed, I play video games to keep myself occupied, and I generally hate just about everyone. I have problems beyond the sociological ones (being disabled, which I won't go into), but after 10 years of working before becoming disabled I had pretty much gone nowhere, and neither had most people I knew who were around my age.

-

I'll also be honest in saying that you seem to see more about anti-video game predjudice from gamers as it gives them a feeling of being some kind of oppressed, but heroic, minority without any of the real risk or disadvantage. It's "cool" to be disliked by everyone, except of course for all the people you know and hang out with.

Frankly I see Jack Thomson getting a platform mostly because gamers give him one for that reason.

It reminds me of what happened with paper and pencil RPGs during the 1980s. It was a problem for a while, mostly because EGG shot off his mouth in a most unwise fashion during a police investigation. But even after it died out, you had gamers going overboard about the dumbest little mentions simply to try and recapture the excitement, even long after things died and gamers were simply seen as huge nerds rather than anything dangerous.

-

As far as game content goes, I think there needs to be more sex and ultra-violence in games, I see games as being more in danger from sweeping moral enforcement that is targeting everything from comics, to TV, to movies, than anything else.

Really the biggest blow to gaming recently was when Rockstar backed down over the "Hot Coffee" thing and consented to seeing "Manhunt 2" censored. This was closely followed by Bethesda going on their little feargasm over fan-made nudity patches for Oblivion.

Such issues are the REAL danger as they are preventing the growth of gaming in the direction of entertainment for adults, and every victory on any front makes it that much easier for people to censor/pressure stuff on other fronts.

Jack Thomson is like the loonie fringe of what is a dangerous movement, but the people you need to be watching are not guys like him (who is a target for gamers) but more contreversial figures like Hillary Clinton who was heavily involved in the whole "Hot Coffee" thing.

Go into a gaming forum and badmouth Jack Thomson and there won't be a problem, but badmouth Hillary and it can rapidly become a whole differant hill of beans, and her name is actually attached to something that succeeded. Jack Thomson is mostly known as a crackpot who has tried the ridiculous and failed.

>>>----Therumancer--->

The guy who watches five hours of television a day will look at the woman who plays five hours of videogames a day and conclude she's "addicted."

Been there...

Abedeus:
And please, you don't actually think 70+ or under 7 people actually care about gaming?

The point is to make them care.

KDR_11k:

Abedeus:
And please, you don't actually think 70+ or under 7 people actually care about gaming?

The point is to make them care.

Oh.

Well, kids care about games. They don't care about gaming. I mean, for them it's just another form of killing the time.

Oldies have nothing better to do. Church, talking about dead/dying/sick relatives and TV. Most of them won't live long enough to see what will become of gaming. They honestly won't care.

You might as well try to make people care about the enviornment.

What kind of argument is that? They're supposed to care just enough to understand what gaming is, what attracts people to it and why it's not the end of all civilization, if they go beyond that, nice, if they don't, who cares.

You sound like you see gaming as some kind of elite club that the plebs should stay out of and that only true devotees should be allowed into. That is the exact image that is hurting gaming. It should NOT appear as a cult that requires devotion and withdrawal from sopcial life, it should appear as yet another pastime that people choose or choose not to take part in. It's not a freaking lifestyle or religion.

Abedeus:
No. The system that brings the crowds in is a sellout. Or a console for fans, COUGH sonic COUGH mario.

Abedeus, I wonder if you could clarify exactly what you think it is that "gaming" needs? Because I find your posts fascinatingly bizarre, written from a stance of some sort of moral purity that I really and truly do not understand. What in the world can a console "sell out" against? That implies that there's some sort of code that they should be upholding, which they are violating by daring to attract people to actually buy and play them. If you could explain this to me, and possibly give me the coordinates of the planet on which this all makes sense, that would be helpful.

DaveMc:

Abedeus:
No. The system that brings the crowds in is a sellout. Or a console for fans, COUGH sonic COUGH mario.

Abedeus, I wonder if you could clarify exactly what you think it is that "gaming" needs? Because I find your posts fascinatingly bizarre, written from a stance of some sort of moral purity that I really and truly do not understand. What in the world can a console "sell out" against? That implies that there's some sort of code that they should be upholding, which they are violating by daring to attract people to actually buy and play them. If you could explain this to me, and possibly give me the coordinates of the planet on which this all makes sense, that would be helpful.

I was talking about a situation where the only games for a console are remakes, remakes, REMAKES. Dozens of Mario games, Sonic games, Metroid Primes, Final Fantasies, Tomb Raiders... This is hardly improving the quality of gaming overall.

Why am I still talking to Wii fans?

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