Zero Punctuation: Kingdom Come Deliverance

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Has Yahtzee ever really acknowledged the "PC Master Race" meme before this? I think he has, but I can't remember.

Duke Amiel Du H'ardcore has some ripe content for Commentocracy it would seem.

The alpha male bullshit kinda put me off this game, but it's nice to know there are more reasons to ignore it.

Aeshi:
Has Yahtzee ever really acknowledged the "PC Master Race" meme before this? I think he has, but I can't remember.

Acknowledge the meme? I'm pretty sure he's the reason it IS a meme.

Aeshi:
Has Yahtzee ever really acknowledged the "PC Master Race" meme before this? I think he has, but I can't remember.

Kind of, there was one review, don't remember wich but I think the context was god-awful PC port, where it was mentioned where the master race man was, like here, overweight, glasses and bad sunburn, but as far as I know he's never acknowledged it as his creation on ZP, only in the passing a couple of times when he and Gabriel did Let's Drown Out on his youtube channel

And what an all-star group they are...

Funniest one in a while.

Called it. In other news the tide is coming in.

Given the general attitude of the "Master Race" Dick Slurp All-Stars would be a much more appropriate name.
Also thank you for finally acknowledging your role in that particular atrocity.

Also I'd like to point out that realism in video games, at least in terms of mechanics, is generally NOT FUN.

Limited save system? Christ that sounds terrible, I thought that outdated mechanic died after it's overdone use in survival horror games like Obscure, Silent Hill and Resident Evil. I was previously put off this game by the developer making some bigoted and ignorant statements(he's a bit of a GG supporter so I suppose that comes with the territory) but it's good to know I have a real legit reason to not play this game besides "the developers is kind of a dickhead"(that's why I never tried Fez, well that and I suck at puzzles games)

P.S. nice jab at the PS4's lack of backwards compatability, that's one of many things that will eventually bite Sony in the ass(along with stupidly refusing to allow crossplay with PC and Xbox on multiplatform games, being needlessly restrictive with mods, not allowing popular games like PUBG on PSN but being more then happy to allow hot garbage like Life of Black Tiger and Inner Kung Fu on there and also actively promoting them on it's own Youtube channel).

I really do enjoy this game despite the combat and the save system. You can mod the save system out of the game and the awful combat system is not an issue or rather has not been an issue for me because i look at my oponent and if i am attacked by some bandit in rags he will not be a problem but if i see armoured knight who is probably highly trained i perform a tactical retreat. The boss fight situation seems a bit concerning but how hard can it be really?
Dan Vavra is a bit controversial to some people but considering he is czech some of his opinions are to be expected he is probably much more sensible than people i go to work with every day you definitely would not like what they have to say about pretty much everything. Anyway all I know is Vavra once wrote a great article about why Fallout 3 is shit so when it comes to games he is all right.

I forgot to add the Archery is designed as a big FU to players. There is cross hair dot on the screen entire time but when you pull out the bow it disappears and you have to guess what you aiming at and your aim swings like you just drank bottle of hard liquor on empty stomach it is absolutely useless.

Limited saves? Are you shitting me?! I thought we all agreed that was terrible 3 console generations ago!

chaosd1:

Aeshi:
Has Yahtzee ever really acknowledged the "PC Master Race" meme before this? I think he has, but I can't remember.

Acknowledge the meme? I'm pretty sure he's the reason it IS a meme.

Yep, I'm positive he came up with it WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY back in the day, even before he got the current theme song. Along with "dirty console peasants".

Canadamus Prime:
Given the general attitude of the "Master Race" Dick Slurp All-Stars would be a much more appropriate name.
Also thank you for finally acknowledging your role in that particular atrocity.

Also I'd like to point out that realism in video games, at least in terms of mechanics, is generally NOT FUN.

Yeah, FUCK realism! That's what we're trying to escape when we play video games!

Undomesticated Equine:
I really do enjoy this game despite the combat and the save system. You can mod the save system out of the game and the awful combat system is not an issue or rather has not been an issue for me because i look at my oponent and if i am attacked by some bandit in rags he will not be a problem but if i see armoured knight who is probably highly trained i perform a tactical retreat. The boss fight situation seems a bit concerning but how hard can it be really?
Dan Vavra is a bit controversial to some people but considering he is czech some of his opinions are to be expected he is probably much more sensible than people i go to work with every day you definitely would not like what they have to say about pretty much everything. Anyway all I know is Vavra once wrote a great article about why Fallout 3 is shit so when it comes to games he is all right.

I forgot to add the Archery is designed as a big FU to players. There is cross hair dot on the screen entire time but when you pull out the bow it disappears and you have to guess what you aiming at and your aim swings like you just drank bottle of hard liquor on empty stomach it is absolutely useless.

Fallout 3 is awesome, now I know Vavra is full of shit and not worth listening to. Don't see anything sensible about whining about "SJWs", that's been done to death and is a great way to make people disregard every single thing you say.

Aeshi:
Has Yahtzee ever really acknowledged the "PC Master Race" meme before this? I think he has, but I can't remember.

It was in his column. Some people had, I guess, been getting on his case about it being problematic because Nazis and all, and he pointed out that he'd meant it as more of a takedown of the "PC games are for smart people" attitude that was prevalent even way back then. He then went on to say he was totally on board with people using it sincerely now because it was pissing off the sort of people who call things "problematic".

I feakin' lost it at the "Zoot suit" bit. Seeing his head on a guy in a goofy suit with crossed arms like he's irritated at something REALLY worked at a gag. XD

Also, man...So many of those mechanics sound terrible.

I mean, first you have the limited save system. In an RPG. That's just an inconceivably bad idea on its face.

Then you have combat being so clunky as to scare people off, but not having any good counter-options like arrows or magic or whatever.

THEN, having a battle where you have to rely on a bunch of allies instead, and they're stupid...

THEN, force the player into an arena boss fight when they might not be built for that and treating it as a full blown game over if you fuck up that fight because you didn't spec for direct melee combat.

All put together into one moment? Yeah, no wonder Yatzee rage-quit. That's just an unbelievably bad game design smoothie. :(

The first reference I'm aware of to the "Glorious PC Gaming Master Race" is in his review for The Witcher back in 2008: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/22-The-Witcher (seek to about 0:53 in. And yes, he has been doing this for over ten years.)

What quickly becomes obvious is that Witcher is very much a PC-exclusive game, which are typically designed to be as complex and unintuitive as possible so that those Dirty Console-Playing Peasants don't ruin it for the Glorious PC Gaming Master Race.

The first warning sign is that the manual is thick enough to beat goats to death with, and then, once you get into the game, the interface is just a few steps shy of Microsoft Access in terms of friendliness. [ ... ]

This really reminds me of the demon souls review as in he went into the game with the wrong mindset missing some crucial mechanics sucked and rage quit be honest did you skip the tutorial ? you are correct about the camera swinging that's why you can lock on to enemies by pressing tab you are correct about you being slow and clunky at combat that is probably becasue you ran straight ahead not realizing you are a fucking blacksmith's boy you are shit at combat if you want to git gud you need to go to captain bernard in rattay and train your ass off did you even know about things like combos and master strikes ? you need to replay this game in a diffrent mindset

Yeah, the PC elitists never gave up the master race title you bequeathed them. Only fitting we get to tag the new Yahtzee honors onto them now as a matter of course.

Oh shit.

...

It's especially surprising too considering I heard nothing but praise for this game. The two big complaints though seem pretty fair and I'm probably not gonna get it anymore. Limited save system? Wow. And I thought we solved this melee idiocy with the classic Jedi Knight directional-keys-control-swings style. It was a really elegant solution.

Well this vid has confirmed two things I've long suspected-

1. The melee combat is awful, because it's in 1st person. From the first dev interview that revealed a forced 1st person perspective I worried it would suck to do melee combat, and here we are. Determined to wait for a 3rd person mod now.

2. I guess Yahtzee really has never experienced Mount and Blade Warband, which has all the good bits of Deliverance and none of the pratfalls listed here. Oh and it also has a 3rd person option in addition to 1st.

image

Squilookle:
Well this vid has confirmed two things I've long suspected-

1. The melee combat is awful, because it's in 1st person. From the first dev interview that revealed a forced 1st person perspective I worried it would suck to do melee combat, and here we are. Determined to wait for a 3rd person mod now.

image

nope he just thought this was skyrim so he rushed into combat not learning any special techniques and with shit stats and then was surprised when he had his ass handed to him he also apparently wasn't aware you can lock onto enemies

Zaper:

nope he just thought this was skyrim so he rushed into combat not learning any special techniques and with shit stats and then was surprised when he had his ass handed to him he also apparently wasn't aware you can lock onto enemies

Can you lock onto a 3rd person perspective while you're at it? Because I'm pretty sure that was the gist he was getting at.

Squilookle:

Zaper:

nope he just thought this was skyrim so he rushed into combat not learning any special techniques and with shit stats and then was surprised when he had his ass handed to him he also apparently wasn't aware you can lock onto enemies

Can you lock onto a 3rd person perspective while you're at it? Because I'm pretty sure that was the gist he was getting at.

nope he was complaining about how the camera swings around during combat a thing that is solved by the lock on system

Of all the things to criticize in KCD. He could have gone on about the game still needs a lot of patching, the NPC's who have American accents, the lack of variety in NPC faces, the exploitable gameplay mechanics, the dodgy horse controls, and the lack of grand pitched battles. I was waiting for that stuff. Yet he rags on the combat. I'd be keen to take his word for it too if I haven't seen so many people playing the game who don't have any issues.

I never thought I'd have to say this Yahtzee, but git gud.

Hells yeah, retcon! Take that, PC Dickslurp All-Stars.

Yeah the problem is that when you try and gun for "realism" in a game it's imperative that you don't then restrict the player from taking realistic courses of action to deal with their problems: IE "that guy's a monstrous badass, lets all rush him at once and dogpile him instead of insisting on fighting him mono-a-mono like some stupid chuuni fuckwit."

Also dear god should limited saves have never been a thing. They're alright as an option for a special super-hardcore difficulty level (it certainly made a second run of TEW2 properly tense and survivally, even if only getting 7 was perhaps a tad overkill), but making it a standard part of gameplay is just insufferable.

Canadamus Prime:
Also I'd like to point out that realism in video games, at least in terms of mechanics, is generally NOT FUN.

It can be well-applied in certain scenarios (Insurgency's "two shots to the chest and you die" damage model makes for a properly tense and engaging experience, along with fixing a lot of stupid weapon balance issues), but especially when "realism" manifests itself as taking away genre conceits that are there to compensate for things that you can't actually do in a video game does it more often than not turn the whole process into a clunky, frustrating nightmare. For example, a third person view in an action game might not be "realistic," but it's there to compensate for the sort of situational awareness a human has that a 70 degree FOV perspective that's locked to your front just can't deliver.

Zaper:
This really reminds me of the demon souls review as in he went into the game with the wrong mindset missing some crucial mechanics sucked and rage quit be honest did you skip the tutorial ? you are correct about the camera swinging that's why you can lock on to enemies by pressing tab you are correct about you being slow and clunky at combat that is probably becasue you ran straight ahead not realizing you are a fucking blacksmith's boy you are shit at combat if you want to git gud you need to go to captain bernard in rattay and train your ass off did you even know about things like combos and master strikes ? you need to replay this game in a diffrent mindset

nah the game sucks ass

RedRockRun:
Of all the things to criticize in KCD. He could have gone on about the game still needs a lot of patching, the NPC's who have American accents, the lack of variety in NPC faces, the exploitable gameplay mechanics, the dodgy horse controls, and the lack of grand pitched battles. I was waiting for that stuff. Yet he rags on the combat. I'd be keen to take his word for it too if I haven't seen so many people playing the game who don't have any issues.

I never thought I'd have to say this Yahtzee, but git gud.

He is "gud", plenty of other people complained about the bullshit "realism" aspects of the game.

darkrage6:

RedRockRun:
Of all the things to criticize in KCD. He could have gone on about the game still needs a lot of patching, the NPC's who have American accents, the lack of variety in NPC faces, the exploitable gameplay mechanics, the dodgy horse controls, and the lack of grand pitched battles. I was waiting for that stuff. Yet he rags on the combat. I'd be keen to take his word for it too if I haven't seen so many people playing the game who don't have any issues.

I never thought I'd have to say this Yahtzee, but git gud.

He is "gud", plenty of other people complained about the bullshit "realism" aspects of the game.

Sad to say but the only people I see complaining about the "realism" don't exactly seem like the types who would appreciate history anyway. Also, Yahtzee has admitted to being shit at certain games before. If he was having trouble with the combat then he did need to "git gud" because it becomes quite easy and satisfying once you level up and learn it. The point Yahtzee seemed to miss is that the mechanics of the combat in the beginning of the game are intentionally bad because Henry is someone who doesn't know how to fight.

darkrage6:
He is "gud", plenty of other people complained about the bullshit "realism" aspects of the game.

I never said anything about realism. He says the combat is *FUCKING TERRIBLE* yet I've seen and talked to enough people who say it's not that hard. Yahtzee's the first person I've heard who has had a problem with its technical aspects. Of course this isn't the first time Yahtzee has mistaken his opinions for objective fact, and I doubt it will be the last.

Take his Witcher review: the one in which, "Glorious PC Gaming Master Race," was born where he criticized the game for being overly complicated, citing for one its menu system. When I played Witcher I didn't have a single issue and likewise never heard anyone else complain about it being too complicated nor knock the menus. In reality, there is more complexity (both in terms of menus and gameplay) to TES IV: Oblivion which is regarded by many to be drastically dumbed down from Morrowind.

A large part of me doesn't think he actually had issues with KCD's combat but instead just didn't like it. Only, "I didn't like it," doesn't sound as hard-hitting and edgy as, "The combat is *FUCKING TERRIBLE*." Furthermore, I don't think he really believed Witcher to be complicated yet needed an extra gag to pad his argument.

All this being said, I think anyone would be doing himself a disservice to base his decision to buy a game on a Yahtzee review. This is akin to how people shouldn't watch The Daily Show for news. It's entertainment with bits of truth sprinkled about. Somehow, the fact that it makes you laugh gives the impression of veracity.

RedRockRun:
All this being said, I think anyone would be doing himself a disservice to base his decision to buy a game on a Yahtzee review. This is akin to how people shouldn't watch The Daily Show for news. It's entertainment with bits of truth sprinkled about. Somehow, the fact that it makes you laugh gives the impression of veracity.

Well, the limited saves alone are still a large deal-breaker for me.

An Elder Scrolls game without proper Khajiits & Argonians isn't worth buying.

But realism, difficulty, & limited saves are awesome!

1 - Allow me to introduce you to reality! It is free!
2 - I guess I can see how not having a cross hair for range weapons can be difficult. Not sure why you would then want an even weirder version for swinging swords.
3 - Well.... I am kind of nostalgic for the ink ribbons back before Resident Evil 4 ruined everything that made Resident Evil 2 awesome.

Nostalgia for the garbage that was RE2's gameplay is a sign of brain damage.

Noyemi-K:
Nostalgia for the garbage that was RE2's gameplay is a sign of brain damage.

That was probably meant to be an insult but

1 - Both of my parents are mentally ill.
2 - I had a giant crack in my skull from when I fell out a window back around 1990 because I was trying to pet pigeons like Bert from Sesame Street.

Also calling RE2 garbage doesn't stop RE4 from becoming the generic standard.

Using a sword on a basic level is pretty damn intuitive. A system that makes it as difficult as Yahtzee is describing isn't actually "realistic", it's just... Eugh. Score one more point for the twits who want to make it as difficult as possible to enjoy a game for anyone who doesn't have as much time to waste as they do. Congratulations. In years to come, your skill with badly engineered melee systems will be the stuff of legend, and everyone else will have naught to show for their labors but careers and significant others and children and real-world skills and creative works and stuff.

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