You Can't Be the Hero If You're the Rapist

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Valentine82:

Phototoxin:

Murder is worse than Rape/Torture.

No, it's not. That's entirely subjective but many women would prefer the former to the latter. I would. And by the way, I'm sure I could think of tortures that would leave you begging for death, maybe a few months with a spinal colum full of thorezine inducing full tactile hallucinations would change your mind.

I second your opinion Valentine. I know while deployed to the Middle East, that I had planned, should I be in danger of being captured, to force my would-be captor to kill me if possible, rather than be taken alive and tortured. I consider that a personal standing policy against being taken alive by anyone I have any belief may use torture.

Valentine82 - "I'm busy and have better things to do than continue coming back here and discussing why I think it's a bad idea to allow rape to be a masturbatory aid in a society in which women are frequently raped."

There. FTFY.

Valentine82:
I wasn't calling anyone liars nor budding rapist, I just ralized that some people here have the fetish.

I just realized: maybe you have the fetish--many women do; in fact, I'd say more *women* do than men--and you can't deal with it, and so you act irrationally when confronted with reminders of the fact that you have this fetish.

I'm busy and have better things to do than continue coming back here and discussing why it's a bad idea to make rape an acceptable masturbatory aid in a society in which women are frequently raped.

THERE IS NO RAPE IN RAPELAY! There aren't even *people* in RapeLay, let alone people being forced into sexual activity against their will.

Porn is closer to watching rape than RapeLay. No one's working on the RapeLay game because some scumbag producer talked an incest victim turned 18 to get nailed on camera for a couple hundred dollars and some blow.

But hey--who cares about those girls right? They're sluts, so, whatever.

It's no good to posit cognitive dissonance on someone who is not willing to discuss anything imo

Also, I'm confused as to what "frequently raped" means. Does "infrequently raped" mean like, women don't get raped

Gyrefalcon:

Terminalchaos:
So why weren't some of these people freaking out about A Clockwork Orange? That movie glorified rape more than most and was immensely popular. Wonder why there aren't gangs of people dressed as droogs participating in ultraviolence. Perhaps the movie didn't create a generation of rapists. Perhaps bad people do bad things independent of media stimulation.

I don't like Clockwork Orange. But it is designed to disturb you and make you not want to be like the main character. In a video game you kind of have to identify with the main character since you are controlling him/her.

I didn't get that message - I saw to some degree it made you identify with the main character especially when he is dehumanized and then gets his comeuppance. Well I read the book so I might see different messages from it.

Also there are many video games where I don't identify with the hero at all and didn't get the feeling I was supposed to.

Geoffrey42:
Valentine82 - "I'm busy and have better things to do than continue coming back here and discussing why I think it's a bad idea to allow rape to be a masturbatory aid in a society in which women are frequently raped."

There. FTFY.

Much better, good sir.

MaxTheReaper:

Muphin_Mann:

A: I find it disturbing that you subscribe to that theory. By that logic Isralies could launch a nuclear attack against Germany. Just paying them back for the nazi thing.

B: Also, i will not provide a real police officer while you get to give a highly unrealistic fictional character as your example.
B2: And dont try to use the guy from Saw either.

I've never even seen SAW. I don't watch shit.

Furthermore, I'm talking more on a person-to-person basis.
Your example is stupid. Massively so.
I'm not saying, "Kill one thousand people because there's one dude who deserves it in the crowd."

Also, I don't really see how he's unrealistic. None of the things he does are beyond the capabilities of you or me.
Well. Maybe not beyond me, anyway.

Well, i *could* kidnap torture and murder people, but i wont. Not even criminals unless its in direct defense of a life. Because if i murder murderers and you murder murderers and Dexter murders murderers then at some point we will all murder each other.

KaiusCormere:

Valentine82:

Phototoxin:

Murder is worse than Rape/Torture.

No, it's not. That's entirely subjective but many women would prefer the former to the latter. I would. And by the way, I'm sure I could think of tortures that would leave you begging for death, maybe a few months with a spinal colum full of thorezine inducing full tactile hallucinations would change your mind.

I second your opinion Valentine. I know while deployed to the Middle East, that I had planned, should I be in danger of being captured, to force my would-be captor to kill me if possible, rather than be taken alive and tortured. I consider that a personal standing policy against being taken alive by anyone I have any belief may use torture.

Keep in mind that torture and rape are two different things. If the rapist does what he wants exactly as he wants it the event is fairly quick and in time people can recover. If torture goes perfectly (for the perpetrator) then it would go on forever until your pysche was utterly destroyed and you where incapable of experiancing anything at all.
Rape (evne something like date rape) might leave emotional scars that take decades to heal but murder and torture are designed to effectivly kill an individual in either body or mind.

Muphin_Mann:

Keep in mind that torture and rape are two different things. If the rapist does what he wants exactly as he wants it the event is fairly quick and in time people can recover.

Probably not for the "power assertive rapist," even less so for the "anger retaliatory rapist," and for the "anger excitation rapist" the rape is being perpetrated specifically for the purpose of torturing the victim.

http://www.stephenmichaud.com/evil-nyt.htm

Muphin_Mann:

Well, i *could* kidnap torture and murder people, but i wont. Not even criminals unless its in direct defense of a life. Because if i murder murderers and you murder murderers and Dexter murders murderers then at some point we will all murder each other.

Yeah, but we'd all deserve it.

No we wouldn't.

Also in New Scientist Nov 2008 there was an article about rapists propogating genes, its probably linked to the 'girls like bad boys' type attitude. As generally they would be such failures that rape is their only way to pass on their genetic information. So there may even be a genetic predisposition.
Also in the Arthurian legend I thought Percival was the virgin hence wore white?

And from a legal perspective murder is a higher crime than rape.

If the women in the game demand not to be in the game then I will understand. Until then it's not voilating their rights :)

Without rape, genetic variance would be down. After a good massacre, ancient armies liked to get down and dirty with unconsenting women in the mud. Chances are a good number of people alive today have one ancestor who was raped (and is also descended from said rapist as a result of said rape). I claim no numbers, this is only a guess.

Why even let these games be made? Its s a sick crime! Who would want to play a game like that?

A good portion of people who don't rape others or otherwise try to censor speech.

Andy Chalk:
Gamers don't bat an eye at violence in murder at games. Why is the crime of rape so different

Personally? I'd compare cutting off someones fingers with a blunt cleaver, then beating them to death with a stick to rape since it's generally classified as mental (and physical) torture. Actually.. That may not be enough.. Burning them to death maybe? A slow roast?

Shooting someone once in the head is a lot quicker, over straight away. No pain, nothing.

Some people I know are victims of assault. Fucked up big time. This may sound weird, but a bullet would have been a blessing from my p.o.v.. Obviously I'm not them, but anyone so emotionally messed up is.. Well, comparing it to shooting someone is way off.

And I'm a pacifist but if I ever saw the people that did it I'd quite happily waste them.

Doug:

MaxTheReaper:
Just responding to the question in the OP: Because murder can be justified.
See also: Dexter.

Rape can never serve a good purpose.

And now to read.

EDIT: Well fuck. It looks like you pretty much agree completely.
That's actually a bit weird.
Or maybe it's just a more common viewpoint than I thought.

THis. Although I do think that games about rape aren't justifiable as 'entertainment' or 'freedom of speech'.

And this.

Double on the not justifiable as entertainment bit. If you repeatedly see something, you get desensitized to it. Just watch the nightly news and you'll see body bags, sometimes body parts. Watch a movie and there'll be a few violent deaths. Death isn't something that's a big deal in todays society. Now imagine that but sub in rape for death...

Edit:

Realized that posting in this thread is a really stupid idea, so no more comment.

The only reason i kill in videogames is because i have fun doing it. It doesnt matter who the enemy is...
Ok nvm i do it because i enjoy fighting off hordes of Demons/nazis/americans/zombies/insert-ancient-civilation-here/british and being all heroic while doing it.
Since its usually morally all justified ,i can feel good while doing it.

What if I'm tired of playing the hero? When I played Skyrim, I got mad. Mad at who? I got mad at Bethesda, that's who. I played the game as a cold blooded killer. No justification, no morality just an evil man. Why? Skyrim gets boring after the first play through.

So here I am, decimating entire cities yet I still have to be the hero. I am forced to be this great guy who saves Skyrim from evil. Why? Because Bethesda thinks like you, not me. They think you have to be a hero to enjoy the game.

They're wrong.

wolfy098:
....... Ok IF this becomes another flame war i'll track you down and kill you

Murder can only be justifyed if you are:

On a battlefield - because the enemy came into the fight knowing they may die
In self defence
Or in other extreme curcumstances

If noone have arrested you on that before.

Child soldiers.

Conscription.

On self defence in a battlefield perhaps. If someone already commented, just ignore this.

Remeber "High Plains Drifter"? Yeah in the next scene she gets raped by the "hero"...

image

Okay, I completely disagree with a lot of what was said in the article. Why not ban it? I understand if the subject of rape comes up for narrative reason. It happens. I just think that no one should have even the option to rape anyone, real or virtual. Rape is not ever justifiable, like he said in the article. I personally don't care if a the rape is real or virtual, it's still rape. Rape is wrong and traumatic to the victim, woman or man. The only reason I would want the rape games to not be banned is so that players could be flagged for watch lists.

"We're not shooting faces and hacking limbs for shits and giggles; we're doing it because the alternative is far worse."

...But we are shooting faces and hacking limbs for shits and giggles. The character may not be enjoying it and trying to be as imaginative as possible but we sure as hell are.

And by the way I'm sick of people saying rape can NEVER EVER EVER be justified. Any act can be justified, it's a matter of context. It's an extremely unlikely scenario, but dismissing it entirely makes you sound childish.

And heroism? Fucking really? I was playing my EEEEVIIIL run of mass effect 3 yesterday and I just commited genocide. Because I thought it would be fun.

Genocide > Rape

Is mass effect 3 banned? NO. Because people don't find that PERSONALLY apalling enough. Because it's fucking normal in rpgs like that.

Because it doesn't make peoples skin crawl, because it's optional it isn't even discussed.

What the hell makes this different from any other evil assholy act in video games?

actar411:
Okay, I completely disagree with a lot of what was said in the article. Why not ban it? I understand if the subject of rape comes up for narrative reason. It happens. I just think that no one should have even the option to rape anyone, real or virtual. Rape is not ever justifiable, like he said in the article. I personally don't care if a the rape is real or virtual, it's still rape. Rape is wrong and traumatic to the victim, woman or man. The only reason I would want the rape games to not be banned is so that players could be flagged for watch lists.

Ok first of all like I already said, any act is justifiable, it's a matter of context. Secondly don't you think that's maybe a bit self centered? You think rape is horrible therefore you think no one should never have the option of raping someone in a video game. What about the thirteen million other acts that are unjustifiable in video games? Why don't those games get banned? What makes rape different from say, repeatedly electrocuting a soldier to his lowest health points and healing him? Or any other brutal act?

Video games are fiction. Games. Make believe. Fantasies. Why do you want to take away peoples fantasies? You're disgusted by them so people shouldn't have them? Whats the harm? It's not real life, and forgive me but I'm willing to bet that wanting to take peoples fantasies away because they're morally apalling would make most people hypocrites.

Even if you found it so utterly horrible that you simply had to get these games to stop that still wouldn't be justification to stop them from being made. Because that's your opinion, your preferences and no one is getting hurt here.

CmRet:
Why even let these games be made? Its s a sick crime! Who would want to play a game like that?

1. Because everyone is consenting, there's no crime and banning it would be ridiculous from a moral standpoint.
2. No it's not. Sick is debatable, but it's certainly not a crime.
3. People who have a fetish that you don't have.

Whats better than a Necro'd thread? A triple necro'd thread from 3 years ago!

Only thing I can add is

A: World of difference between rape, and twisting, coercing and subduing pixels.

B: I have said it before but it does bear repeating. If you can justify murder, you can justify anything.

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