You Can't Be the Hero If You're the Rapist

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Vanguard_Ex:

Cliff_m85:

WrongSprite:

MaxTheReaper:
Just responding to the question in the OP: Because murder can be justified.
See also: Dexter.

Rape can never serve a good purpose.

And now to read.

I give you GTA4. Is cutting down civilians justified? Then maybe they should both be banned.

Technically you aren't forced to cut down civilians.

Bullseye. It's your choice if you kill any civilians, like it would be in a real city, but there aren't really any consequences. Thus why it is just a game, and does not really merge with real-life.

its someones choice to play rapegames, is it not?

anyway, why are japan banning this game when america's people are outraged, america doesn't give japan profit from rape games, so japan didn't need to try and ban it at all

"we're japan, we'll bend over, for all your needs"

I think the worst part with this is that everyone is talking about a game that 99% of the people talking about it have never played so we do not really know the context of the game.

It is basically like Fox news they said Mass Effect was a sex simulator when it had only like a minute sex scene that was not a required part of the story.

Granted it is doubtful that this game has any sort of redeeming qualities to it and is more then likely just what it sounds like but I am not going to judge it without playing it. ( I will probably never play it though) I think that is the worst part of all the media attention to this game is that it just gets it in the public eye and will probably push more sales of it to those that never new it existed

Made my points on this already.

Rape games should be banned until there's a reasonable counterpoint.

Game murder isn't the same as game rape because of the emotional identification. The 'walking wounded' are hardly ever portrayed for that reason, it's too damn distressing. If you just count life as an on/off switch, you can justify most forms of brutality.

(Let's face it, they've done worse to the contents of your dinner plate most nights)

But, if you can get that emotional linkage in there, suddenly murder isn't quite so easy to rationalize:

image

Games like Rapeplay base their game around that aspect. Once someone can come up with a way of portraying sex realistically in a game, then I'm fine for it to be portrayed pervertedly: But don't let's let the perversions come first.

The_root_of_all_evil:
Made my points on this already.

Rape games should be banned until there's a reasonable counterpoint.

Game murder isn't the same as game rape because of the emotional identification. The 'walking wounded' are hardly ever portrayed for that reason, it's too damn distressing. If you just count life as an on/off switch, you can justify most forms of brutality.

(Let's face it, they've done worse to the contents of your dinner plate most nights)

But, if you can get that emotional linkage in there, suddenly murder isn't quite so easy to rationalize:

image

Games like Rapeplay base their game around that aspect. Once someone can come up with a way of portraying sex realistically in a game, then I'm fine for it to be portrayed pervertedly: But don't let's let the perversions come first.

Poor rat...

Anywho, thanks TRoAE, I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one who wanted to see it banned.

dogstile:

Vanguard_Ex:

Cliff_m85:

WrongSprite:

MaxTheReaper:
Just responding to the question in the OP: Because murder can be justified.
See also: Dexter.

Rape can never serve a good purpose.

And now to read.

I give you GTA4. Is cutting down civilians justified? Then maybe they should both be banned.

Technically you aren't forced to cut down civilians.

Bullseye. It's your choice if you kill any civilians, like it would be in a real city, but there aren't really any consequences. Thus why it is just a game, and does not really merge with real-life.

its someones choice to play rapegames, is it not?

anyway, why are japan banning this game when america's people are outraged, america doesn't give japan profit from rape games, so japan didn't need to try and ban it at all

"we're japan, we'll bend over, for all your needs"

You miss my point. Within the game of GTA, you choose whether or not you kill civilians, whereas this game centres solely around rape.

In a similar vein, I find the slave collars in Fallout 3 to be very dark and offensive to me - I personally think slavery is worse than rape (and oftentimes rape is a condition of slavery) and the ability to sell slaves was pretty much one of the most evil things I've seen in a game (aside from genocide). That being said- I'm glad Bethesda put it in the game. If I find the slave collars offensive I don't use them and I'd be a jackass for trying to remove them from the game. Instead I just hunted the wasteland for raiders and slavers and methodically killed all the villains in Paradise Falls. I do find it odd that the slave collars didn't cause a huge uproar. Can you be a hero if you're a slaver?

The ban equates censorship, even if the game is saying something no one wants to hear. But just because they have the right to express themselves does not mean we are required to pay it any attention. Let the companies make what they want. Give people the right to buy and play whatever game they choose. Companies will only make games that will sell, and this game will be the test to see if rape games are a viable market. If this game is a success then we learn something about people, something we didn't want to know and don't want to be true. But I have a feeling that if left to it's own devices this would become at worst a niche market selling shoddy products, and at best a memory of a tasteless idea.

All I have to say is, I wish all the people wanting to get a game banned for its violence took a look at this. I agree whole-heatedly with the premise of that article and I'm glad to know there's other gamers out there that well, kill for a good reason, not on a whim.

I'm not gonna say ban rape games, but to play and enjoy it says quite a bit about you as a person-none of which being flattering

Wow, what's with all the folks going the way of ZP and posting before reading? I know this is a hot topic, but the summary is a little misleading.

Cpt_Oblivious:
In answer to the OP (before Reading), I think it's called the protagonist then.
And I don't understand how or why they'd make rape games.

Now for the reading.

in japan sex based games are rampant, you have no idea how the chan servers are handling it, /h/ has become the new black market

Terminalchaos:
In a similar vein, I find the slave collars in Fallout 3 to be very dark and offensive to me - I personally think slavery is worse than rape (and oftentimes rape is a condition of slavery) and the ability to sell slaves was pretty much one of the most evil things I've seen in a game (aside from genocide). That being said- I'm glad Bethesda put it in the game. If I find the slave collars offensive I don't use them and I'd be a jackass for trying to remove them from the game. Instead I just hunted the wasteland for raiders and slavers and methodically killed all the villains in Paradise Falls. I do find it odd that the slave collars didn't cause a huge uproar. Can you be a hero if you're a slaver?

No, you can't really be a hero if you're a slaver. I think the point is that the game wasn't focused around the slavers or the slavery, and fortunately, in this day and age, it is believed that slavery, as a percentage of the population, is at its lowest level in recorded history (obviously, its not possible to be 100% certain).

Add to that, as you say, you weren't forced to be a slaver, and in fact could hunt down and destroy the scum.

I'm sorry guys, I want you to look at the artwork to RapeLay for 10 seconds. Games are supposed to make you feel good right? If violating anime makes you feel good you have problems. I was going to ramble one here but like I said before. "I ain't touching that".

EDIT: Ok I'm sorry, I had to look up a review for this game. Of course it got 1/10 in the review but jesus, it actually made me feel sick. I'm not a sensitive person,but seriously, it doesn't justify rape,it glorifies it. Apparently after the story mode (which contains a lot of rape.) the women learn to enjoy it and want you to rape them some more. Now I'm done with this. You guys can talk all you want about whether this should be banned or not,but I feel like flamebait right now.

Gorbek:

Cpt_Oblivious:
In answer to the OP (before Reading), I think it's called the protagonist then.
And I don't understand how or why they'd make rape games.

Now for the reading.

in japan sex based games are rampant, you have no idea how the chan servers are handling it, /h/ has become the new black market

Sex based games are fine by me. Rape based games aren't.

Doug:

Terminalchaos:
In a similar vein, I find the slave collars in Fallout 3 to be very dark and offensive to me - I personally think slavery is worse than rape (and oftentimes rape is a condition of slavery) and the ability to sell slaves was pretty much one of the most evil things I've seen in a game (aside from genocide). That being said- I'm glad Bethesda put it in the game. If I find the slave collars offensive I don't use them and I'd be a jackass for trying to remove them from the game. Instead I just hunted the wasteland for raiders and slavers and methodically killed all the villains in Paradise Falls. I do find it odd that the slave collars didn't cause a huge uproar. Can you be a hero if you're a slaver?

No, you can't really be a hero if you're a slaver. I think the point is that the game wasn't focused around the slavers or the slavery, and fortunately, in this day and age, it is believed that slavery, as a percentage of the population, is at its lowest level in recorded history (obviously, its not possible to be 100% certain).

Add to that, as you say, you weren't forced to be a slaver, and in fact could hunt down and destroy the scum.

Lowest levels in human history? Check that white slavery has been on the rise- gimme a few to scour for sources or let you check the human trafficking stats yourself. Slavery is right under drugs and guns as far as black market income goes.

Just because the game offers other options doesn't make that option any less offensive. That being said I still am glad they included it in the game. I for one am opposed to censorship even if the thing being censored is something I find personally offensive.

Terminalchaos:
Good article Malygris. As Voltaire says: "I may not agree with you but I'll defend to the death your right to speak." Free speech trumps personal offense.

Agreed

There are plenty of incredibly violent games that simulate killing people. Sometimes there's a moral justification for killing them (COD etc), sometimes there isn't (Carmageddon, GTA, etc). There are superb games like Fallout 3 where you can enslave people by strapping explosive collars to their necks, and even employ a nuclear bomb to wipe out a town of relatively innocent people. Saying that some action in a game is "optional" doesn't change the fact that these are perfectly allowed behaviors that were explicitly designed into the game.

With that in mind, I see no reason why developers can't create rape games. Sure, slap an M rating on there, don't buy it for your kids, don't sell it to kids under 18, I'm perfectly fine with parental controls for children.

What I absolutely protest is any sort of parental controls for adults. I am an educated adult who always, always, wants the right to choose what I purchase and play. If developers don't want to make it, that's their right. If you own a store and don't want to put it on your shelves, that is their right too. But there is no justification possible for taking away My right to purchase and play any game simply because someone else dislikes the content.

If you don't like it, don't buy it, don't play it, pretend it doesn't exist. But you may not take away my right to choose.
That's exactly what rapists do.

I see your point with shooters in general. But games like Postal, saints row or manhunt kind of invalidates the point of the article. (That is, if you were making a universal statement. If you were just noting the difference.)

this thread upsets me....

Nice Thread TC.

I do have mixed feelings though, but I'm going to play a little Devil's Advocate-ish.

Rape -can- be justified in a game, it's just that society is very "yeeneeh?!" about it. For example, our society gags at the thought of eating human flesh, but other societies don't (extreme example on purpose).

But with rape, think of it this way: in the game, there are bitchy girls who bully other people like trash, and the point of this game is to rape the girl as a form of anti-bullying/revenge.

It -can- be done, but then again, I do admit sex is a bit 'iffy', mostly because I can imagine that a lot of fictitious-sex-games would end up focusing on the sex first, and then the story afterward. In many cases, it's the other way around with violence. Actually wait, no, that's not necessarily true is it...

Huh..fancy that. Sorry just rambling.

I think people underestimate the amount of games that encourage inexcusably evil and sadistic acts for the satisfaction of the player. Knights of the Old Republic anyone? I don't think rape games should be banned, and furthermore, I don't think the argument that games portray their lead characters as noble avatars committing mass slaughter really holds any water, especially when one considers the absolute glee with which most of the bloodletting is perpetrated.

Is it excusable to go back in time to rape Hitler? I believe if there was a sequence in a game where a player raped Osama Bin Ladin, that it'd be heartily approved of by the gaming community at large (not that I see any publisher releasing it).

However I do find it heartening to see that there are so many people out there who are determined not to have their buttons so easily pushed.

RAAAAWWRRRRRRRR

fact 1) you are a male
fact 2) men cant be sexually abused unless it's from another man
fact 3) rape leaves a psychological imprint into a female's mind

Rape is worse then death because in death at least u dont have to live further on in life with a pain always inside of you. I believe death is better than knowing you have been sexually abused.

It's a disgrace to women saying that rape isn't as bad. It is just as worse perhaps even more so in killing a person.

ofc this is a bias perception as i am female but it makes me, as a female, insecure knowing that a game like this is provoking rape.

It should be banned in all countries.

Terminalchaos:

Doug:

Terminalchaos:
In a similar vein, I find the slave collars in Fallout 3 to be very dark and offensive to me - I personally think slavery is worse than rape (and oftentimes rape is a condition of slavery) and the ability to sell slaves was pretty much one of the most evil things I've seen in a game (aside from genocide). That being said- I'm glad Bethesda put it in the game. If I find the slave collars offensive I don't use them and I'd be a jackass for trying to remove them from the game. Instead I just hunted the wasteland for raiders and slavers and methodically killed all the villains in Paradise Falls. I do find it odd that the slave collars didn't cause a huge uproar. Can you be a hero if you're a slaver?

No, you can't really be a hero if you're a slaver. I think the point is that the game wasn't focused around the slavers or the slavery, and fortunately, in this day and age, it is believed that slavery, as a percentage of the population, is at its lowest level in recorded history (obviously, its not possible to be 100% certain).

Add to that, as you say, you weren't forced to be a slaver, and in fact could hunt down and destroy the scum.

Lowest levels in human history? Check that white slavery has been on the rise- gimme a few to scour for sources or let you check the human trafficking stats yourself. Slavery is right under drugs and guns as far as black market income goes.

Just because the game offers other options doesn't make that option any less offensive. That being said I still am glad they included it in the game. I for one am opposed to censorship even if the thing being censored is something I find personally offensive.

While I am not sure about the percentage rate but I can say at the moment there are more people in slavery than at any other point in history. Sure there are more people but does that really give any one any comfort? Even if they make up a smaller percentage of the world do you feel better knowing that? As I can't say it makes me feel any better.

I also agree that saying the violence being optional does not make things better, it could even make things worse. After all you are the one actively deciding to do the evil rather than the game its self. You are the one who sent those people into slavery, it was not te game choosing it for you.

DarkNightSleeper:

fact 2) men cant be sexually abused unless it's from another man
fact 3) rape leaves a psychological imprint into a female's mind

No you are wrong. You are so wrong it hurts, women are perfectly capable of sexually assaulting men. You are so wrong I find it impossible to care what else you have to say.

DarkNightSleeper:
RAAAAWWRRRRRRRR

fact 1) you are a male

Correct, in my case at least, though I'm unsure of who you were addressing.

fact 2) men cant be sexually abused unless it's from another man

This is unbelievably sexist, and untrue.

fact 3) rape leaves a psychological imprint into a female's mind

Rape is worse then death because in death at least u dont have to live further on in life with a pain always inside of you. I believe death is better than knowing you have been sexually abused.

You heard it here folks- rape victims are better off dead.

It's a disgrace to women saying that rape isn't as bad. It is just as worse perhaps even more so in killing a person.

I'm wondering if you're going to claim to know a rape victim or to have been raped since you seem to know it so intimately. However your viewpoint to me speaks of someone who has absolutely no experience whatsoever of what they are talking about. I in fact think it's a disgrace to survivors of sexual assault of either gender that you think they'd be better off dead.

ofc this is a bias perception as i am female but it makes me, as a female, insecure knowing that a game like this is provoking rape.

It should be banned in all countries.

Just some points for your consideration:
There's nothing to suggest these games are provoking rape in real life.
It is possible to be unbiased and consider such matters objectively, and that by admitting your own bias, you essentially undermine everything you've said.

Malygris:
You Can't Be the Hero If You're the Rapist

Gamers don't bat an eye at violence in murder at games. Why is the crime of rape so different?

Read Full Article

are rape games even fun?

seriously, slaying dragons and making huge explosions is fun, but rape???

does not compute

Has anyone actually PLAYED this game? It's pretty badly made anyway, for a strictly gameplay point of view, theres no depth or progression, its just shallow and simple, with no rewards or achievements for doing a 'good job'!

(BTW, I agree with everything in the article, and do not own the game myself, just to be clear. But as I am studying games programming I think it reasonable to at least try every genre of game, no matter how shit it is... MMORPG's notwithstanding :D )

Yeah. This works as an explanation. Perfect. Nice job.

An old issue worth rereading:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_69/400-Is-Rape-Wrong-on-Azeroth

I'd also like to know if anyone knows a link to the essay "Is Rape Wrong on Andromeda?" by Michael Ruse. I remember reading that and it being enlightening.

I have nothing against games that simulate the act of rape. Why? Because it's fantasy. For me there is no reason to feel enrgaged by something that never happened. If the game was based off of any particular occurence of rape or if someone was actually raped during the making of the game in order to create the voice acting and sound effects, THEN I would have a problem with it.

Bottom line, it never happened in real life. Stop getting your knickers in a twist about it.

Why can't we just ignore the rape games? It's like a mosquito bite; if you pick at it and attempt to remove it you just get hurt, but if you leave it alone, eventually it just GOES AWAY. That or it actually develops into a more comfortable (justifiable) form, just like the ultra-violent games we have today.

Teachingaddict:
I've said it in previous threads...

I'll never ever touch a 'rape' game, however, murder or rape, whats the difference.....both can take and ruin lives, so why a one sided view point by many.

Murder victims don't spend years trying to forget the horror that was done to them. Murder victims don't need therapy and they aren't mentally devastated.

Kajin:

Bottom line, it never happened in real life. Stop getting your knickers in a twist about it.

hmmm... rape's never happened before, that's a new one. I don't mind the games simply because I don't have to play them but rape shouldn't be made into a game. It is already so I'm going to drop it but still....

MaxTheReaper:

WrongSprite:

I give you GTA4. Is cutting down civilians justified? Then maybe they should both be banned.

Depends. Are they pissing me off?

I didn't say either game should be banned. I am fully against censorship, no matter how bad something may be.
I pretty much agree with Maly and his article on this one.

Though I personally have no problem with murder at all. I'm just horrible that way, I suppose.

Murder in games?

....right?

you've obviously never heard of rapeman.

Leorex:
you've obviously never heard of rapeman.

That sounds cool, where may I find this.... Rapeman?

Panzer_God:

Kajin:

Bottom line, it never happened in real life. Stop getting your knickers in a twist about it.

hmmm... rape's never happened before, that's a new one. I don't mind the games simply because I don't have to play them but rape shouldn't be made into a game. It is already so I'm going to drop it but still....

Actually the moment I posted that I knew I made a mistake in my choice of words, I just couldn't be bothered to fix it. Rape does happen, but unless any one specific party is actually injured by it then their shouldn't be a problem with it.

Sure games like these are tasteless and disgraceful to women, but is anyone actually being forced to play these games? No. No they are not.

Frankly, if you have to ask why should people get so up in arms over rape games when there's so much killing in others, you're either fanatically devoted to that asinine philosophy that everything's a matter of opinion or you're suffering from a brain tumor.

As the above article stated (though I think its tone was slightly cynical), comparing rape to killing isn't really the same because the actions aren't equivalent to each other. Killing is sometimes an unfortunate necessity, while there's never a legitimate reason to violate someone sexually. Perhaps rape can be included in a game as part of the storyline, i.e. a you play a cop trying to catch a rapist or the hero is hunting the antagonist because he raped his girlfriend/wife/loved one, but never as an activity you engage in.

I believe in the freedom of speech and that people should be allowed to say what they wish. But never forget the door swings both ways. The way I see it, everybody has the right to say what they wish, no matter how offensive, just as those they offend have the right to verbally tear them a new one.

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