E3 Killjoy

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E3 Killjoy

You know that stuff that E3 got you psyched about? It's gonna suck.

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That was...depressing.

The whole point of TOR is that theres a lot of jedi.

Its a freaking Jedi war

Thats what makes it awesome :D

I wasn't fussed about heavy rain anyway, although I'm looking forward to Thi4f because I loved the other 3. Simple as.

"...it takes a special sort of marketing imbecile to adopt a pretend internet language invented by illiterate rugrats and then manage to misspell the name of your game anyway." -fantastic!

Also, a new Monkey Island? Here's hoping they do it right, it may be the first game in a long time I actually look forward to!

Shamus, you are an Optimist after my own heart. As usual, you make some damn good points. I think, for a moment there, I was actually getting my hopes up over SWTOR & Thiaf. Now they lie toppled & crushed 'neath your mighty jedi-powered bulldozer of logic and reason.

Thanks for sparing me the disappointment when I actually end up playing the games. Now I will merely say "yep, Mr. Young called it, again... Damn Jedi."

The more I read about Milo, the less discouraged I become.

Yeah, Molyneux is continuing to live up to the curse of having visionary ideas stuck in cement overshoes.. but the core of what makes Milo interesting - deciphering mood from tone of voice and facial expression - it's still a visionary idea.

Just not really for games. However, apply this technology to technical support lines, voice menu systems, telemarketing.. even online education.. and you get something that could change a lot of what we know. Actually.. thinking about it more.. maybe even for games. Imagine a game that can sense when you're getting frustrated. If programmed correctly, it may be able to scale down the difficulty curve at that point. Or if it spots you're getting bored, it goes through its database to pick out the type of encounter it saw that you enjoyed earlier, and drops it in front of you.

So, with some thought, the potential for Milo really is huge.

Now if only we can take that basic tech and apply some developers who understand fun to it.

WrongSprite:
That was...depressing.

The whole point of TOR is that theres a lot of jedi.

Its a freaking Jedi war

Thats what makes it awesome :D

This, plus there's that whole business about how Bioware's making the game highly story-oriented. Probably the only time you'd be grinding for XP with immature-types is because you actively sought it out.

Telltale games have made some excellent games at a fast rate. I'm enjoying the second season of Sam & Max. However, their new series Wallace & Gromit have been getting bad reviews so I have stayed clear of those. I just hope it'll end up being as fun as either the old Monkey Island games (1 & 2) or the new Sam & Max series. And if it fails I can always play the Monkey Island remake. Can't go wrong there :)

I look forward to the upcoming Star Wars MMO...I think...possibly having second thoughts upon realization that there will be an overwhelming focus on what has become my least favorite parts of Star Wars continuity (force users, mandalorians, and bounty hunters in general to an extent) simply because they're often made out to be far more awesome than they really are. In an intelligent universe, every miltitary organization and their trained dogs would have emergency equipment on hand at all times for dealing with foes of the force using variety. Especially when said emergency equipment can come in the form of a small pistol or a weapon they'd generally prefer to be using on the battlefield in the first place. FYI, non-force users wouldn't want anything to do with lightsabers. In fact, if they were smart, force users themselves would have switched to blasters a long time ago. Being able to pick off an entire platoon with an unscoped blaster from several kilometers away would be far more useful than a glowy lightstick that only works at short range. Especially when you inexplicably prefer not to wear armor...

Anyway, I might still give it a shot since force users will undoubtedly be balanced against non-force-using classes. And I'll get to explore what look to be VERY nicely detailed alien worlds. I'm generally not a fan of Bioware's work but I'll wait for a free trial/demo copy before I condemn this piece of the Star Wars EU.

Shamus, you are aware that David Cage got up on stage a full year ago, and said they were painfully aware that the last third - "And I will remind you, it was the last third", his words - of Indigo Prophecy were stupid, and have taken every step to make sure it doesn't happen again?

Thi4f may be bad, but not quite as bad as TR2N, the new Tron movie.

Finally someone that isn't blinded by hype.

Thi4f has to be the most idiotic title I have come across in quite a while, right up there with the Rambo movies. I hate remakes so I'll keep on enjoying my original copy of Monkey Island.

Why people are excited for Milo is beyond me. Some people never learn I suppose.

I do reckon Heavy Rain has a chance to be decent atleast but I'll believe it when I see it.

WrongSprite:
That was...depressing.

The whole point of TOR is that theres a lot of jedi.

Its a freaking Jedi war

Thats what makes it awesome :D

I wasn't fussed about heavy rain anyway, although I'm looking forward to Thi4f because I loved the other 3. Simple as.

Yes. see, this time they gave us an EXCUSE to just make a million jedi/sith characters and ignore all those other classes. Honestly, has anyone here who played SWgalaxies ever used the smuggler class or whatever-that-dancing-musician-one-was.

Of course, when that game was still new they did a random jedi thing true to the series, but it was frustrating and people complained, as half the time total retards or very casual players got the jedi, when hardcore fans were stuck as commandos.

Im SO gonna buy SW:TOR Though. Cant wait to chop up jedi/sith with whatever one I choose. I think im gonna go sith..

I think you're a bit too pessimistic.

But I will, say, it made me laugh when I say "Thi4f", because I read it as "Thorf".

So thanks for that :D

Ashbax:

WrongSprite:
That was...depressing.

The whole point of TOR is that theres a lot of jedi.

Its a freaking Jedi war

Thats what makes it awesome :D

I wasn't fussed about heavy rain anyway, although I'm looking forward to Thi4f because I loved the other 3. Simple as.

Yes. see, this time they gave us an EXCUSE to just make a million jedi/sith characters and ignore all those other classes. Honestly, has anyone here who played SWgalaxies ever used the smuggler class or whatever-that-dancing-musician-one-was.

Of course, when that game was still new they did a random jedi thing true to the series, but it was frustrating and people complained, as half the time total retards or very casual players got the jedi, when hardcore fans were stuck as commandos.

Im SO gonna buy SW:TOR Though. Cant wait to chop up jedi/sith with whatever one I choose. I think im gonna go sith..

I always thought they should have made some "no jedi" servers. Just like many games have PvP / non-PvP servers, they could have featured servers where you couldn't roll a jedi, so the other classes could inhabit a world where Jedi were actually RARE.

Would have solved some bickering over balance as well.

Shamus Young:

Ashbax:

WrongSprite:
That was...depressing.

The whole point of TOR is that theres a lot of jedi.

Its a freaking Jedi war

Thats what makes it awesome :D

I wasn't fussed about heavy rain anyway, although I'm looking forward to Thi4f because I loved the other 3. Simple as.

Yes. see, this time they gave us an EXCUSE to just make a million jedi/sith characters and ignore all those other classes. Honestly, has anyone here who played SWgalaxies ever used the smuggler class or whatever-that-dancing-musician-one-was.

Of course, when that game was still new they did a random jedi thing true to the series, but it was frustrating and people complained, as half the time total retards or very casual players got the jedi, when hardcore fans were stuck as commandos.

Im SO gonna buy SW:TOR Though. Cant wait to chop up jedi/sith with whatever one I choose. I think im gonna go sith..

I always thought they should have made some "no jedi" servers. Just like many games have PvP / non-PvP servers, they could have featured servers where you couldn't roll a jedi, so the other classes could inhabit a world where Jedi were actually RARE.

Would have solved some bickering over balance as well.

Perhaps the balance is in the fact that there are a lot of Sith/Jedi force users to combat themselves?

I've read the other classes as well. They seem awsome and the bounty hunter has always been a counter to Jedi. The soldier one reminds me of a commando guy busting through walls shooting and blowing shit up. Jedi or not, we'll see if their force powers can save them from a thermal grenade up their ass.

I think this is going to be the most balanced Star Wars MMO :D

Shamus Young:

Ashbax:

WrongSprite:
That was...depressing.

The whole point of TOR is that theres a lot of jedi.

Its a freaking Jedi war

Thats what makes it awesome :D

I wasn't fussed about heavy rain anyway, although I'm looking forward to Thi4f because I loved the other 3. Simple as.

Yes. see, this time they gave us an EXCUSE to just make a million jedi/sith characters and ignore all those other classes. Honestly, has anyone here who played SWgalaxies ever used the smuggler class or whatever-that-dancing-musician-one-was.

Of course, when that game was still new they did a random jedi thing true to the series, but it was frustrating and people complained, as half the time total retards or very casual players got the jedi, when hardcore fans were stuck as commandos.

Im SO gonna buy SW:TOR Though. Cant wait to chop up jedi/sith with whatever one I choose. I think im gonna go sith..

I always thought they should have made some "no jedi" servers. Just like many games have PvP / non-PvP servers, they could have featured servers where you couldn't roll a jedi, so the other classes could inhabit a world where Jedi were actually RARE.

Would have solved some bickering over balance as well.

At the small expense of not being any fun

I don't disagree with your expectations for The Old Republic, but I do have to disagree with the assumption that Jedi and non-Jedi can't coexist in a balanced game. This assumption stems out of the idea that a Jedi knight is somehow equivalent to a new soldier. This is not correct. A new padawn is the equivalent of a soldier. A major part of what makes Jedi so good is that they train from a ridiculously early age. Start the two characters out at equivalent points in their careers and they will be fairly balanced. You just have to remember that nearly all Jedi are, in an RPG sense, player characters, while only a small portion of the non-force sensitives are. The few non-force-sensitive people that are main characters, people like Boba Fett, Han Solo, or Wedge Antilles, are fairly balanced with Jedi.

Indigo_Dingo:

Shamus Young:

Ashbax:

WrongSprite:
That was...depressing.

The whole point of TOR is that theres a lot of jedi.

Its a freaking Jedi war

Thats what makes it awesome :D

I wasn't fussed about heavy rain anyway, although I'm looking forward to Thi4f because I loved the other 3. Simple as.

Yes. see, this time they gave us an EXCUSE to just make a million jedi/sith characters and ignore all those other classes. Honestly, has anyone here who played SWgalaxies ever used the smuggler class or whatever-that-dancing-musician-one-was.

Of course, when that game was still new they did a random jedi thing true to the series, but it was frustrating and people complained, as half the time total retards or very casual players got the jedi, when hardcore fans were stuck as commandos.

Im SO gonna buy SW:TOR Though. Cant wait to chop up jedi/sith with whatever one I choose. I think im gonna go sith..

I always thought they should have made some "no jedi" servers. Just like many games have PvP / non-PvP servers, they could have featured servers where you couldn't roll a jedi, so the other classes could inhabit a world where Jedi were actually RARE.

Would have solved some bickering over balance as well.

At the small expense of not being any fun

...?

So, having the OPTION to play on a server that suits your taste would be "no fun"?

There were players who dropped out of the game once it became awash in Jedi. This would have let those people continue to have fun, while letting the Jedi also have fun. Everyone wins.

Shamus Young:

Indigo_Dingo:

Shamus Young:

Ashbax:

WrongSprite:
That was...depressing.

The whole point of TOR is that theres a lot of jedi.

Its a freaking Jedi war

Thats what makes it awesome :D

I wasn't fussed about heavy rain anyway, although I'm looking forward to Thi4f because I loved the other 3. Simple as.

Yes. see, this time they gave us an EXCUSE to just make a million jedi/sith characters and ignore all those other classes. Honestly, has anyone here who played SWgalaxies ever used the smuggler class or whatever-that-dancing-musician-one-was.

Of course, when that game was still new they did a random jedi thing true to the series, but it was frustrating and people complained, as half the time total retards or very casual players got the jedi, when hardcore fans were stuck as commandos.

Im SO gonna buy SW:TOR Though. Cant wait to chop up jedi/sith with whatever one I choose. I think im gonna go sith..

I always thought they should have made some "no jedi" servers. Just like many games have PvP / non-PvP servers, they could have featured servers where you couldn't roll a jedi, so the other classes could inhabit a world where Jedi were actually RARE.

Would have solved some bickering over balance as well.

At the small expense of not being any fun

...?

So, having the OPTION to play on a server that suits your taste would be "no fun"?

There were players who dropped out of the game once it became awash in Jedi. This would have let those people continue to have fun, while letting the Jedi also have fun. Everyone wins.

Yeah, but when that happened the game was radically changed. The hard work and skills that was put into it was either nurfed or gotten rid of altogether, displeasing a lot of people.

Bounty Hunters weren't as useful anymore in taking down Jedi, and everyone could easily become one rather spending almost a whole year training in finding out how to become a Jedi.

If they allow people to become a Jedi early in the start of development then they can gear towards the other character classes in how to combat them, while at the same time remaining the "jedi" feeling.

Shamus Young:
Yes, everyone wants to be a Jedi.

Um, no. Plenty of people are going to want to be Boba Fett.

Everyone is not going to want to be a Jedi; everyone is going to want to be a female Twi'lek.

Female Twi'lek is the new female Night Elf.

Anyone making an MMO of Star Wars has to make the choice between making the game follow the Star Wars rules or making it balanced, because a Jedi is deliberately not balanced when compared to anything that doesn't have force powers, a lightsaber, super reflexes, the ability to see the future, the power to shoot lightning from their fingers, and the voice of James Earl Jones. You'll either play in a world where the Jedi class is so powerful that nobody wants to play anything else, or one where a Jedi is a sad mockery of the characters we see in the movies.

So what exactly is different about an MMO and a Single-Player game? Because coincidentally enough, BioWare--same company doing this MMO--did a Star Wars single player game where they had balanced characters...

...and everyone wanted to play as the evil robot.

Shamus Young:

Indigo_Dingo:

Shamus Young:

Ashbax:

WrongSprite:
That was...depressing.

The whole point of TOR is that theres a lot of jedi.

Its a freaking Jedi war

Thats what makes it awesome :D

I wasn't fussed about heavy rain anyway, although I'm looking forward to Thi4f because I loved the other 3. Simple as.

Yes. see, this time they gave us an EXCUSE to just make a million jedi/sith characters and ignore all those other classes. Honestly, has anyone here who played SWgalaxies ever used the smuggler class or whatever-that-dancing-musician-one-was.

Of course, when that game was still new they did a random jedi thing true to the series, but it was frustrating and people complained, as half the time total retards or very casual players got the jedi, when hardcore fans were stuck as commandos.

Im SO gonna buy SW:TOR Though. Cant wait to chop up jedi/sith with whatever one I choose. I think im gonna go sith..

I always thought they should have made some "no jedi" servers. Just like many games have PvP / non-PvP servers, they could have featured servers where you couldn't roll a jedi, so the other classes could inhabit a world where Jedi were actually RARE.

Would have solved some bickering over balance as well.

At the small expense of not being any fun

...?

So, having the OPTION to play on a server that suits your taste would be "no fun"?

There were players who dropped out of the game once it became awash in Jedi. This would have let those people continue to have fun, while letting the Jedi also have fun. Everyone wins.

What happens then is that serious players who would want to play as a Jedi among serious players, they find that the servers are divided completely between retards and No Jedi Allowed players. And without the Jedi....why am I playing a Star Wars game again? The parralel I'm picturing is Warlocks in WOW at the height of their power. There was enough definite need for other classes, through functions Warlocks couldn't possibly cover themselves, that the artifical demand actually encouraged players to begin Priests or Warriors. You can make Jedi powerful with no ill effects as long as they aren't all-powerful.

Indigo_Dingo:
Shamus, you are aware that David Cage got up on stage a full year ago, and said they were painfully aware that the last third - "And I will remind you, it was the last third", his words - of Indigo Prophecy were stupid, and have taken every step to make sure it doesn't happen again?

To quote you on the Valve thread, "Talk is cheap."

Doug:

Indigo_Dingo:
Shamus, you are aware that David Cage got up on stage a full year ago, and said they were painfully aware that the last third - "And I will remind you, it was the last third", his words - of Indigo Prophecy were stupid, and have taken every step to make sure it doesn't happen again?

To quote you on the Valve thread, "Talk is cheap."

As opposed to simple naked profiteering, given the choice between fixing their clear desperation job ending and repeating it, I'd assume they'd enact the former. The fact that they're aware of it seems to guarantee that the next one will be better.

What the hell? When did this happen to E3? It was pretty useless, but ALL of these games are something I'd want to play! Well maybe not Milo and Kate, but all the other games I'm actually looking forward to, and what's with the slagging off of heavy rain? To be fair I don't see what was wrong with Fahrenheit. There's no need to keep games along the same storylines constantly since that just gets old, repetitive and boring.

Bah, violence begets violence (stupid 50 cent movie on TV). I'm off to sleep.

Maybe, just maybe these games might turn out good?

I mean seriously, why does everyone have to be so damn negative all the time? While I understand the whole "being pessimistic discourages disappointment" I really get tired of it after a while.

Perhaps Bioware has thought about this problem (considering that maybe they aren't complete idiots) and incorporated some way to fix it?

Maybe Quantic Dream has thought about the problems that might arise from the style of game they've designed, and at least they're trying something different. One thing I hate is when everyone bitches about how games have thrown innovation out the window, and how everything is the same as everything else. Yet when a game with actual innovation comes along, they say "That will never work".

How about we wait and see how these games turn out before judging them based on demo's and trailers?

Shamus Young:

Ashbax:

WrongSprite:
That was...depressing.

The whole point of TOR is that theres a lot of jedi.

Its a freaking Jedi war

Thats what makes it awesome :D

I wasn't fussed about heavy rain anyway, although I'm looking forward to Thi4f because I loved the other 3. Simple as.

Yes. see, this time they gave us an EXCUSE to just make a million jedi/sith characters and ignore all those other classes. Honestly, has anyone here who played SWgalaxies ever used the smuggler class or whatever-that-dancing-musician-one-was.

Of course, when that game was still new they did a random jedi thing true to the series, but it was frustrating and people complained, as half the time total retards or very casual players got the jedi, when hardcore fans were stuck as commandos.

Im SO gonna buy SW:TOR Though. Cant wait to chop up jedi/sith with whatever one I choose. I think im gonna go sith..

I always thought they should have made some "no jedi" servers. Just like many games have PvP / non-PvP servers, they could have featured servers where you couldn't roll a jedi, so the other classes could inhabit a world where Jedi were actually RARE.

Would have solved some bickering over balance as well.

Yeah because don't you remember all those servers Blizzard set up that had no pallys and shammys? Neither do I, because each class is important to the game no matter how op you think they are.
And why didn't you like Indigo Prophecy, atleast it tried something new, and I felt some connection to my characters.

Saying an MMO is going to suck isn't exactly a hard call to make. When 9 outta 10 don't make it past a year on release, it isn't hard to point a finger and call out new ones.

I will give it a chance though considering Bioware has made so many excellent games. Star Wars doesn't fit as an MMO but I have always enjoyed the way SW Battlefront worked something like that on a larger scale would be neat.

SirSchmoopy:
Saying an MMO is going to suck isn't exactly a hard call to make. When 9 outta 10 don't make it past a year on release, it isn't hard to point a finger and call out new ones.

Then again, if we scolded Shamus for picking easy targets....

<-------- Not giving a fuck. I'm still going to get TOR. And I think Heavy Rain looks cool.

far_wanderer:
I don't disagree with your expectations for The Old Republic, but I do have to disagree with the assumption that Jedi and non-Jedi can't coexist in a balanced game. This assumption stems out of the idea that a Jedi knight is somehow equivalent to a new soldier. This is not correct. A new padawn is the equivalent of a soldier. A major part of what makes Jedi so good is that they train from a ridiculously early age. Start the two characters out at equivalent points in their careers and they will be fairly balanced. You just have to remember that nearly all Jedi are, in an RPG sense, player characters, while only a small portion of the non-force sensitives are. The few non-force-sensitive people that are main characters, people like Boba Fett, Han Solo, or Wedge Antilles, are fairly balanced with Jedi.

I have two thoughts about The Old Republic, one complete guess that would keep everyone happy, one guess about balance.

To keep everyone happy - EVERYONE starts with a Non-Force-Sensitive character. You make it, you name it, you play through the story with it. When you get to max level, you get the option of doing a decent length, fairly exhausting story arc that ends with you character being told they were Force Sensitive all along and the option to become a Force User. As you no longer know anything due to being made more aware of the Force, your character starts at level 1 again, only this time as a Jedi Guardian/Consular/Master or Sith Marauder/Lord/Balanced one. Bioware have KINDA set a precedent for this with Knight of the Old Republic 1. It'd also help to explain why a Soldier is able to take down a Jedi one-on-one - the Player-controlled Soldier can subconsciously use the Force!

This will help control the population of Force Users while keeping them in the same servers - I know I couldn't bear the thought of starting any of my max-level characters again...

Balance - From the video shown, my call is that Force Users will be good against single targets/other Force Users, but non-Force users look to be better at groups. A group will probably need both, if only so the Soldiers and Smugglers can keep the enemies of the Jedi's back while he takes on the main boss...

Shamus has anyone ever told you you might be genius?

If not let me be the first to tell you that you could possibly if the moon suddenly changes phases while a wolf howls, and a man is struck by a radioactive meteorite and lives, then you will be a genius.

In all honesty you just made sense in this. In some ways you said things about games I had didn't know I knew.

It's like Yahtzee said, it's always best to remain skeptical.

E3 is essentially a hype factory, a carnival of important announcements that makes gamers "ooooh" and "aaaah" in delight. Trying to avoide hype at E3 is like trying to avoid blood stains at a Slipknot concert; try as you may, you simply can't.

So I applaud anyone who claims they're not giving into the hype. As for me, I'm going to cryogenicly freeze myself until Metal Gear Rising comes out on the 360.

Shamus Young:
E3 Killjoy

You know that stuff that E3 got you psyched about? It's gonna suck.

Read Full Article

It's almost as if you did 0 research into SW:TOR and just decided to make up some stuff about it. Nothing that was said about it is true.

"Yes, everyone wants to be a Jedi. Because Jedi are special."

Really? Because I want to be a Bounty Hunter, actually. But, that's just me, I guess. Unless you actually go to the forums where people are loving the idea of playing a Smuggler, BH, or trooper.

" You'll either play in a world where the Jedi class is so powerful that nobody wants to play anything else, or one where a Jedi is a sad mockery of the characters we see in the movies. "

This isn't based on the movies. Why are you bringing that up? It takes place about 5,000 years before the movies. Anything goes, right? Which is why it's such a fantastic setting that Bioware carved for themselves with KOTOR.

" In either case, it will be a world where half the people you meet have force powers, most of them are more powerful than you, and they all talk like retards. "

It's an MMO. Correction, it's an online game. What do you want? Actually, I really don't see "retards" in LOTRO to often at all, so I think you're just making shit up again. You could always join a clan of non-retards though, right?

"Sure, the idea of playing a noble and mysterious Jedi might be appealing, but ten minutes after logging in you'll find your self in the Goldshire, but with lightsabers. "

This is where you really take a turn for the worst. Can't anybody be clever enough to not make a WoW reference? This is going to be a heavy story-based game with NPC companions and so far no word on quests, XP, or anything of the like. So why the conjecture? Why try and doom a game before it even has a chance to announce its content? How can progress be made with people like you screaming "WoW" at the top of their lungs anytime somebody makes an online game?

"You're not going to be hanging out with Mace Windu, Yoda, and Luke Skywalker. "

Why would you? This isn't based off of the movies.

"You're going to be in some sewer under Coruscant, killing gonga-rats for 10XP each with fellow party members "Ninjaguydan", "Abcdef", and "Manparts". "

What the hell is a gonga-rat? I get that you were trying to be cute, but with massive amounts of misinformation leading up to the cuteness, it suddenly loses its charm.

I don't know. I guess I don't know why we need yet another doomsayer. That just doesn't seem like good incentive for developers to try and make good quality games.

I sort of... completely agree...

But what I have to ask of you out of this entire thing... is how exactly does Halo (I'm more of an RPG fan myself, but an avid reader of novels of all sorts) a "crazy story". I could name countless amounts of books/movies/games with worse stories than Halo...

I'm referring solely to the original game, not the sequels...

runtheplacered:

Shamus Young:
E3 Killjoy

You know that stuff that E3 got you psyched about? It's gonna suck.

Read Full Article

It's almost as if you did 0 research into SW:TOR and just decided to make up some stuff about it. Nothing that was said about it is true.

"Yes, everyone wants to be a Jedi. Because Jedi are special."

Really? Because I want to be a Bounty Hunter, actually. But, that's just me, I guess. Unless you actually go to the forums where people are loving the idea of playing a Smuggler, BH, or trooper.

Shamus Young playing as a Smuggler...I'll sign up for the game just to see that :-D

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