Left 4 Dead 2: Why the Boycott Is a Good Thing

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Jumplion:

Armitage Shanks:
I haven't acquainted myself with the specifics of the sequel enough to respond to any of that with an informed opinion, but am I right in assuming you don't own/have not played the first L4D very much?

EDIT: Though it might look like it, I'm not trying to ignore your counter-arguments by asking an irrelevant question, I'm just leaving responses to Kwil or someone else who actually knows what they're talking about.

Nope, I do not own, nor have I ever played Left 4 Dead the original. I suppose that does invalidate a lot of what I have said over this issue, but I think that if an "outsider" can criticize VALVe and still have some valid points (which I believe I do) then something's a little iffy here.

Metal Gear Solid 4 is shit because my friend told me that like, you don't have to use stealth at all and its too easy because instead of sneaking you can just shoot everyone in the head. Thats why it sucks. Hideo Kojimas new so-called 'sequel' should just be DLC.

Armitage Shanks:

Jumplion:

Armitage Shanks:
I haven't acquainted myself with the specifics of the sequel enough to respond to any of that with an informed opinion, but am I right in assuming you don't own/have not played the first L4D very much?

EDIT: Though it might look like it, I'm not trying to ignore your counter-arguments by asking an irrelevant question, I'm just leaving responses to Kwil or someone else who actually knows what they're talking about.

Nope, I do not own, nor have I ever played Left 4 Dead the original. I suppose that does invalidate a lot of what I have said over this issue, but I think that if an "outsider" can criticize VALVe and still have some valid points (which I believe I do) then something's a little iffy here.

Metal Gear Solid 4 is shit because my friend told me that like, you don't have to use stealth at all and its too easy because instead of sneaking you can just shoot everyone in the head. Thats why it sucks. Hideo Kojimas new so-called 'sequel' should just be DLC.

The MGS:Rising sequel? Well, as far as I know it has Raiden in it and.........well, that's it. Something about "Lightning Bolt Action" or whatever. If we knew a bit more about it, then I guess he could criticiz-OHHHHOHHOH!!! You sneaky little bugger! That's near exactly what the boycotts are doing!! Ho ho ho!

Though if you do look up at the groups STEAM page you would see that they're a bit more knowledgeable than that and at least want something good to come out of it instead of "DON'T RELEASE L4D2" or whatever.

Though back on the Rising thing, it wholy depends on what the game has, though i'd be a bit hard for the 360 to have the DLC of Rising if they didn't have MGS4...

Jumplion:

Though back on the Rising thing, it wholy depends on what the game has, though i'd be a bit hard for the 360 to have the DLC of Rising if they didn't have MGS4...

Yeah, just glad you can see both sides of the argument.

Personally I hope Rising is somewhat similar to the Ninja VR missions in MGS2, but with a proper story, environment and new, more action-oriented control scheme.

Xan Krieger:
I just wish Valve would direct it's attention to the series that brought it so much fame in the first place. Give me either Half-life 2 episode 3 or Half-Life 3 before Left 4 Dead 2.

They have different groups that work on different things.

My *opinions* on this whole debarcle:

- Out of the 30,000 people in the boycott group I estimate about 80% just joined through bandwagonism without any real reason or motive.

- Out of the remaining boycotters, the only people I give any credance to are content developers*

- If you're serious about the boycott, stand up and talk in front of your own name. Being referred to as 'Mr Pancakes' just makes your whole campaign look frivolous. If you're not brave enough to do that, you shouldn't be an admin for the group.

- Claiming new models, maps, AI are just updates is silly. Every sequel of every game has new models, maps and AI - do you want to get them free too? How about the Fifa football games, or Pro Evolution Soccer? Are there boycotting groups against these games?

- In response to the PS3 development comments: Creating a new development team would draw resources away from other areas. I believe valve made the right decision to drop support for the PS3 instead of taking financial and reputation damage by continuing to release sub-par content for it.

*The only criticism I have towards valve right now is that you STILL can't host modded content on dedicated servers for download. The modders are the people I feel the pain for. They've spent months hacking away at hammer using workarounds until the SDK was released and now all their work looks as though it may have a very short lifespan. True it will most likely be portable but there's no guarantees of that.

I kinda saw the boycott coming anyway to be quite honest.

Then don't ship it as a friggin DLC valve, EXPANSION PACK. STORE!

The problem here is Valve wubs their steam wubbims too much and can't fathom just releasing the updates as a pack through a brick and mortar store..brgging friggn mrhgl..grumble..

And lets say that L4D2 IS too big to just...update the original. Why did they make it so soon!? They shipped l4D and then IMMEDIATLY started on l4d2, they've admitted this. Why cram everything in there? I know you think your making your dream project boys, but you made some campaign promsies that we're looking to COLLECT ON. So where's my goddamned digital 40 acres and a mule.

PS: I stand up for the Boycott, my name is Andrew James Schiffbauer. I live SOMETHERE in South Carolina where I bag groceries as a part time job to help pay the bills while the tv stations all cut jobs.

bue519:

WrongSprite:

bue519:
Great article. I just don't understand why they couldn't put the stuff in Left4dead2 into an expansion pack.
The only thing it adds is new ugly survivors skins, a few new maps, and one new playable infected. The new weapons are at best just reskins.

Eh? It has more maps than the original, 3 new infected, and a freaking chainsaw. A chainsaw is a reskin?

I was merely pointing out that what their adding doesn't isn't really need an entirely new game, they could just make a 30 dollar expansion and everyone would be happy. I just miss the good old days of expansions. Makes me cry a little.

No you weren't because you got it all wrong. There are several types of melee weapons, incendiary ammo, different survivors, a whole new campaign and 3 new infected types. That is more content than the original Left 4 Dead, so why is it that this is not enough to justify a game whereas the first one had enough content? Besides if they added the new survivors it wouldn't be Left 4 Dead.

Striker1246:
Oh my god no- Half Life SUCKS in comparison to Left 4 dead.

Quite agreed.

This whole boycott thing is just like a Temper Tantrum. It is very childish and never ever works...so why even try? It just makes you look even more foolish and childish. Just shut up and buy the game if you like it and if you do not like it then go and get into another game....then boycott that as well. LOL!!!!

People these days...sheesh.

Digikid:

Striker1246:
Oh my god no- Half Life SUCKS in comparison to Left 4 dead.

Quite agreed.

This whole boycott thing is just like a Temper Tantrum. It is very childish and never ever works...so why even try? It just makes you look even more foolish and childish. Just shut up and buy the game if you like it and if you do not like it then go and get into another game....then boycott that as well. LOL!!!!

People these days...sheesh.

You don't understand online games, don't talk.

Releasing new ONLINE ONLINE ONLINE (I had to type it 3 times, otherwise people won't see it again) every year is different from new FIFA or PES. When a game is in 95% ONLINE and MULTIPLAYER, you MUST buy the new sequel, because:

1. Fanboys will buy it for 110%.
2. Friends of fanboys will buy it, because they want to play with them.
3. Other people also must buy it, because they will be left behind.

Why do I have the suspicion that their L4D1 support will be like HL2 support, that is - new game/content MAYBE after 2-3 years?

I still fail to see the issue.

I won't buy another Valve game until Half Life 2: Episode 3 comes out.

Or Portal 2.

That's my boycott.

Theissen:

By my calculations, the only additional amount of new content is somewhere along 100 %

^^Win

I think the majority of the people boycoting are people who won' have the money to buy L4D2(Kids, under 15yrs old), people who want to be part of something big( sad lonely mmorpg players who think L4D is the biggest first person shooter ever), or they are the small minority who actually want Valve to keep a promise about supporting the game, when the new one is good enough for everyone else.

(I think the last group is partly people who were spoiled as a child

TsunamiWombat:
Why did they make it so soon!? They shipped l4D and then IMMEDIATLY started on l4d2, they've admitted this.

No other game company has ever done this. Ever.

WrongSprite:

Look,

Left 4 Dead 1: 4 Campaigns
Left 4 Dead 2: 5 Campaigns.

That would be a ridiculous expansion.

Are you kidding.. If they released good tools to make the L4D campaigns the community would have added hundreds of campaigns overnight.

If they release the SDK before L4D2 dont be surprised to see all the features of L4D2 out beforehand for L4D1.

4 campaigns is hardly a complete game, 5 will be worse. If it wasnt for the excellent solid gameplay valve provides for its games I would have really regretted buying it.

6 guns and about 4 hours to see all the content. If any other game offered that it would get a severe blasting by the community and the gaming media.

Valve is one of the better companies out there, and has really given me a lot of entertainment for my dollar. They listen to the community and do their best to patch problems quickly, as well as provide new content. The charge that they haven't supported L4D is ridiculous, they've put out patch after patch, new maps, a new survival mode, and so on.

I don't mind supporting companies this good with another game purchase. There's dozens of companies out there that won't even patch their initial releases!

The boycott strikes me as a bunch of folks jumping up and down, stamping their feet, and hoping to get something for nothing.

DM.:
I still think Valve made the boycott group to drum up publicity for the game.

Man, if anyone ever got wind of that if it were true, would backfire with the vengeance of a thousand angry nerds!

I STILL have no idea why they're boycotting it. If they love it so much, surely this is a good thing?

What really pisses me off is that all these boycotting tards make the same reference, TF2. "Oh, but TF2 gets all this content!" Really? REALLY? Let's compare shall we. (I will NOT be counting the making fan maps official, that is not thier work.)

Goldrush: 1 new map, 3 new items.
Pyro Update: 3 new items.
Heavy Update: 1 new map, 3 new items, Arena mode w/ 2 arena maps, tweaked 3 maps for arena
Scout Update: 3 new items.
Spy/Sniper Update: 1 new map, 6 new items, 2 new arena maps

Total: 3 normal maps, 18 items, 4 arena maps.

Now, this sounds like a lot for the average person. Except that items are by far the easiest to add, as they are a single model with moving parts and just coming up with a working idea that will be balanced. Go ahead now, compare that to the list of how much stuff L4D2 is getting. The number of campaigns already outnumbers the new TF2 maps. And then you'll realize that a campaign is a set of 5 maps.

L4D2: 25 new maps, 3 new SI classes, all weapons retooled for balance, new items (new unreleased grenade + incendiary ammo). And let's not forget the biggest changes, huge revamp to AID to control the actual layout of the levels, wandering witch placement, versus SI spawn queue(best addition IMO), and all the minor less important stuff like melee items and infected deformation.

The people in the boycott can suck an egg for all I care, I'll be happy to not have to play against such a huge group of ignorant whiners. Plus, I'm pretty sure some of them are just hopping on the bandwagon because the game will be an actual challenge again, instead of constant map exploiting. (DA3 Pipe campers, I'M LOOKING AT YOU.)

[edit] Forgot to mention, look at the frequency of updates for TF2 as well. Only 5 content patches in 2 years. Been 2 so far for L4D and not even been a year. With a 3rd supposed to be coming before L4D2 comes out. Further proof that Valve has supported the game.

WrongSprite:

bue519:
Great article. I just don't understand why they couldn't put the stuff in Left4dead2 into an expansion pack.
The only thing it adds is new ugly survivors skins, a few new maps, and one new playable infected. The new weapons are at best just reskins.

Eh? It has more maps than the original, 3 new infected, and a freaking chainsaw. A chainsaw is a reskin?

I can see this being a hit anyway one thing i can say they developers dont care what the boycott group think they care what they think.They are probably making fun of it now.

Your article is self-contradictory. You offer more reasons why the boycott is a bad thing than a good thing. You point out that the boycotters are full of hyperbole and that hurts their case. And in your closer, you point out you didn't even buy the first Left 4 Dead so you're not even in the customer base that's supposedly offended.

This is the first op-ed I've seen that criticized a game company for re-using the same engine over and over, which is a fair criticism. Back in the 1990s, companies such as Sierra and SSI would use the same code to make "new" games, which they cranked out on a regular basis. Strangely, though, back then people actually enjoyed having new games to play ... and if they didn't want to play them, they simply didn't buy them.

The boycott is doomed to failure, by simple economics. If making Left 4 Dead 1 required 100% of the development resources, Left 4 Dead 2 will require less than 100%, or 100%-X. For the boycott to work, the expected X percent will have to be greater than the resources saved by recycled work. It won't. The boycott is largely meaningless because they only thing that will matter is sales, and if L4D2 has even just 80% of the sales of L4D1, it will be a resounding success.

If forum trollers really made a difference in marketing, Snakes on a Plane would've had a lot more revenue. Many folks who are throwing in with the boycott will swallow their pride and buy L4D2 anyway. (Wait, forum trollers have pride?)

Sigh, remember the days when John Romero was mocked for having his game take four years of development time? It used to be that gamers expected a franchise to spit out a new game every 14 months or so. How things have changed that folks feel necessary to boycott new content.

Speaking of remembering things, does anyone remember Half Life: Opposing Force? It had its own death-match option, incompatible with Half Life's. It was made by a different development team and was largely considered to be an inferior cash-in, unworthy of Valve's commitment to quality. Sound familiar? How much did that hurt HL's legacy? Not one iota.

Really, the L4D2 boycott is one of the worst things to happen to gaming. It's a message to developers that says they should inflate their development cycles to make games take longer and come out slower. It makes gamers sound like whiny elitists who want their "fun" strictly managed and parceled out in small bites made more palatable by two or three years' worth of screen-shots and puff-piece magazine articles -- you know, the fecund enviroment that let 3D Realms take 10 years to make the lame Prey, and to take 12 years to ... er, make nothing. It's a message that Valve could've done the same amount of work on L4D2 that they're doing now, but just postponed delivering it for three years, because apparently gamers want less things, less often.

No wonder video games have become conservative, bloated affairs ... biting off more than they can chew as they try to cram in sixty hours of game play to justify their $80 price tags. Apparently, it's because making smaller games with faster production gets a publicity backlash. The boycotters are in the same camp as folks who complain that folks who want to play a game for just 15 minutes are "casual gamers" who are "ruining the industry". Think it's too soon? Fine, don't buy it. But exhorting others to have less fun because it makes you sad? What kind of gamer does that?

bue519:
Great article. I just don't understand why they couldn't put the stuff in Left4dead2 into an expansion pack.
The only thing it adds is new ugly survivors skins, a few new maps, and one new playable infected. The new weapons are at best just reskins.

No, they're adding a lot more: as you can read in the article, more detailed zombie destruction (no more heads dissapearing in a red cloud, yay!), melee weapons, the AI Director will get a make-over wich is coupled together with more dynamic maps (more free to pick your own route, and the AI Director acts accordingly). All those things, and probably more (the fact that there will be more story, hopefully in a proper way, and not just a few new maps but a shitload of em) are more than just a DLC. Definatly expansion worthy, they're fleshing out the whole L4D concept with this sequel.

I love Valve, I think at this point in time they're the best developers in the world, and I own ALL their games.

However, what I don't get is how it's an irony to be upset over a new game too soon when the developers have a long history of supporting each of their games for a long time and perfecting them. You know, even if NOTHING new was added to L4D2 from its current state, I would still rather see it announced next year. This is just way too soon, it feels like L4D has been abandoned before it even got started. That might be alright for console gamers whose games never receive any major updates or patches, but PC gamers expect better. I'm really not convinced that what they're proposing for L4D2 can't be patched into L4D.

That and the truth is this whole mess is over contracts and legal issues about who can do what with the original game, and it's preventing Valve from making the updates they want. The real crime here is that instead of just resolving these issues they're just going to start over.

I think that the new content justifies a new game. Looking at all of the content you may say that some of the stuff is DLC worthy, but I only think it's DLC worthy if it was just some parts of the update. I could understand DLC with a new campaign and new weapons, but five new campaigns (all playable in versus and survival), new game mode, new infected (common and special), and a major overhaul to the AI Director sounds like plenty enough content to justify a new game.

Plus, valve said they'll still support the original L4D. Also, I find it a bit dumb that people bought L4D not for what was actually in the game, but for what they thought would be added in free updates. You buy a game for the game in the box. All of the updates are just a nice little bonus.

Won't be getting this. It's good to see that people still stand up, protest and not take all this hype bullshit from the gaming media, even if this protest is mildly retarded to say the least.

Dont forget that their adding better damage modelling to the zombies.

Im geussing the 31k people complaining are tight arsed tinkers who would be struck on the back of the head by the same penny they dropped. 30 for a good game (or even more of the same game is a good deal) is fair. Christ you whiners are gonna pee yourself when you see Starcraft 2.

Anyone who was big on the MMORPG scene will find nothing new with this. Kids don't want to fork over the doe and get surprised that video game companies are ultimately out to make money. Go ask the WoW or Everquest protesters how "boycotting" the 10 trillionth expansion worked out for them....oh yeah they're too busy playing the game to tell you.

This thread alone says it all. There are people here not reading the thread before spouting (not as many as other threads, true.)

Before you boycott L4D2 you should be forced to take and pass a class in software engineering.

Boycotters = Twilighting Narutards with guns. Fucking childish monkeys who should all have witches shoved up their asses. Hey Valve, this sounds like a DLC idea for L4D2, a mini-game of sorts.

Just to flip off the boycotting 'tards I'm buying a copy of L4D2 and I don't own an XBOX of any sort. I'll give the copy I buy to one of my friends who has a 360.

30,000 doesn't equal a boycott. It just proves idiocy is contagious.

Pyromania192:

DM.:
I still think Valve made the boycott group to drum up publicity for the game.

Man, if anyone ever got wind of that if it were true, would backfire with the vengeance of a thousand angry nerds!

If the protesters really wanted to hurt Valve, they would spread an Internet rumor that the protest was started by Valve to get some free publicity...

I support buying the game.
from what one of my more hardcore Valve friends explained how you were getting more than just 5 new maps it has a more story oriented line. Don't ask me how. thats what he told me.

he also told me about how their adding 4 more boss infected, ontop of the Tank, Hunter, Smoker, and Wytch ( which will now wander and stop crying during daylight hours. ( O_o) but they'll create a charger, which is meant to screw people over in versus mode when they just hunker down in one spot and just kill for how ever long the enemy teams gets bored and leaves. I have been a victim of the hunker down and just massacare it's no fun.

and I understand why they were working on it almost immediatly sicne they play their games too you know so they saw how long it took peopel to hack the game like jumping off the side fo the roof and landing on the air vent in the medical one or the hunker down and screw everyone over in versus. so they foudn their problems and some of them were patch able adn they fixed it, but something required more work than a patch could offer.

the AI director changes sound awsome and I previously did not know about them and I can understand why it's comming out as a sequel.

what those boycotters don't notice is that every one else does it? what was the time gap inbetween Call of Duty Modern warfare, and Call of Duty World at war?

Jumplion:

Though if you do look up at the groups STEAM page you would see that they're a bit more knowledgeable than that and at least want something good to come out of it instead of "DON'T RELEASE L4D2" or whatever.

Except they aren't. I'm going to try to not repeat myself here but the manifesto was based on assumptions, almost all of which have been proven wrong less than a week after the announcement of the game. If they had waited a bit, gotten more info, and then acted on it, maybe i'd be more inclined to believe this wasn't a knee-jerk reaction like what invariably happens after every E3.

Now of course, it's on VALVe to follow up on their plans to make L4D1 and L4D2 custom content work with each other as much as possible, but it's not like they aren't trying at all, which is what the protesters alleged...without any actual information. Granted ok, some of them played L4D1 (I refuse to believe everyone in that group has played the game or even owns it at this point), which makes them slightly more knowledgeable than someone who's never played it yet has decided that they apparently know what's what. And yet despite this, they decided to immediately go ahead with a boycott before any facts have become apparent. As if an E3 presentation tells you everything (hint: it doesn't).

AceDiamond:
Except they aren't. I'm going to try to not repeat myself here but the manifesto was based on assumptions, almost all of which have been proven wrong less than a week after the announcement of the game. If they had waited a bit, gotten more info, and then acted on it, maybe i'd be more inclined to believe this wasn't a knee-jerk reaction like what invariably happens after every E3.

Their manifesto has been revisioned plenty of times;

I don't find most of their stance on this issue all that irrational and find it quite civil.

If they can update TF2 all the time why not L4D?

this seems to big for an update. most of this stuff is for people that have friends and play multiplayer right? 10-15 new weapons, 5 more campaigns, cooler director, 3 more infected. thats like, doubling the game...

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