Overlord 2

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Overlord 2

Yahtzee reminds game developers that they need to give players something to care about - or, failing that, a nice pair of jubblies to stare at.

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Extra punctuation? Sorry Yahtzee, I like you and all. But, I'm not really the reading type. Maybe if you put it all in a short video with animations and dick jokes I'd look at it, but for now...

Is this a new feature here? If so that would be awesome.

Good read, and that's one of the reasons I hated Fable. Overlord was fun though mainly because I just got my frustration out by enslaving the whole population.

Well said, well said. Motivations are engendered over time and with reason, not forcibly evoked from a player.

I think he has a point. Don't tell us to care make us care. Look at Mass Effect.

Spoilers

PS some one want to tell me why that messed up please.

wait wait wait, you could marry people in Fable?!

but thanks for reminding me I need to go play the Sexy Beach series again.

IceStar100:
I think he has a point. Don't tell us to care make us care. Look at Mass Effect.

Spoilers

PS some one want to tell me why that messed up please.

Fixed, dude. Don't put on of ~ those in there.

Good points, please do us a favor and follow Peter Molyneaux around slapping the back of his head whenever he starts to think about fable 3.

IceStar100:
PS some one want to tell me why that messed up please.

Get rid of the ~ in your spoiler tags.

Cpt_Oblivious:

IceStar100:
PS some one want to tell me why that messed up please.

Get rid of the ~ in your spoiler tags.

bodyklok:

IceStar100:
I think he has a point. Don't tell us to care make us care. Look at Mass Effect.

Spoilers

PS some one want to tell me why that messed up please.

Fixed, dude. Don't put on of ~ those in there.

Thank you both

IceStar100:
I think he has a point. Don't tell us to care make us care. Look at Mass Effect.

Spoilers

[~spoiler] When you have to choose a crewmate to die. Them being the one you started out with. Some people like me it took time. Plus the whole movie thing really got me. I felt bad about it. [~/spoiler]

PS some one want to tell me why that messed up please.

Because there's no ~

...and I disagree with Yahtzee to an extent, short version : players control a pre-created character, they aren't meant to directly choose actions as they aren't said characters, they are merely controlling them to a small extent. The game is an experience, a story - but not an interactive one. I agree with the fact back stories and writing flaws are common, and need to be eliminated, thus creating the points Yahtzee creates, yet the games themselves do not have to give the player a degree of choice in order to create relationships. This is something JRPG's often do very well by, as he explains, involving them in combat. However, the game can make you care about those not directly involved in combat via immersion.

I hope this becomes a weekly feature. Be interesting to see him elaborate on points he made in his reviews.

bodyklok:
Extra punctuation? Sorry Yahtzee, I like you and all. But, I'm not really the reading type. Maybe if you put it all in a short video with animations and dick jokes I'd look at it, but for now...

I see what you did there, and I like it.

NoMoreSanity:
Is this a new feature here?

It's a new weekly feature. Every Friday.

Hrrmm... Yahtzee is much funnier in video-form than he is in writing. It is nice to see him elaborate on developer shortcomings, but I prefer tasteless jokes against a yellow background for the lulz. Ah, how I love the lulz.

Virgil:

NoMoreSanity:
Is this a new feature here?

It's a new weekly feature. Every Friday.

Awesome.

I hope the creators of Fable take notes from Yahtzee. I would love a Fable game where they make it actually worthwhile for your character to marry specific characters instead of them being interchangeable and not worth having.

Was waiting for a Yahtzee Op-Ed

Nicely put. The last sentence brightened up my work day.
I agree with the whole "Don't dump care on my shoulders when I don't want it" perspective. It's hard to even pretend you care about a games characters and love interests when most of the time the main character them self seems to be a hulking deaf-mute. However, if it comes down to a simple "Why should I partake in this particular activity?" type question, the only legit reason I can think of for 360 users in Fable for example is Achievements. Why get married to 2 different women at once when there's no in-game benefit? Well, I get an achievement so it works out some way.

I hope these articles are going to be more than just expansions upon the video reviews. That would get old fast.

You have redeemed yourself with your Ghostbusters side note. I agree completely about Venkman and the difficulty curve spike in the cemetery.

Yahtzee Croshaw:
...could "Hit Me With Your Best Shot" by Pat Benatar secretly be a dirty song about cumshots?

I'd put it in the realm of possibility. Unless you want to dismiss ZZ Top as a bunch of dirty old men.

He pretty much hits on the reason why I stopped playing Dead Space... when I realized that since Isaac didn't talk, I didn't give a shit about his story and his emotional stake. If he had had some dialogue and I had been able to see what the characters meant to him, maybe I would have cared. If you MUST have a silent protagonist, do the Alyx thing and let the player form their own attatchment to the character (I actually don't like Alyx, and I was amused when she died, she comes across as far too smug... and Gordon is to old for her so their "relationship" is creepy).

I'm hoping since the Prototype vs. InFamous challenge, developers are taking a close look at Yahtzee's complaints and making a mental note of them for their future titles.

Virgil:

NoMoreSanity:
Is this a new feature here?

It's a new weekly feature. Every Friday.

This isn't replacing Shamus Young's "experienced points" is it?

-or is that even on a Friday in the first place?

Well, to primarily comment on your Zero Punctuation comment about the lack of good "evil" games, I'd like to point out Dungeon Keepers 1/2. Just saying.

Is this the first one, or did I miss any?
Anyway this is great, since he can adress things he left out of his reviews and we can get a beter idea of his opinion. Not that I follow his opinions, I'm a JRPG fan...

PedroSteckecilo:
(I actually don't like Alyx, and I was amused when she died, she comes across as far too smug... and Gordon is to old for her so their "relationship" is creepy).

What? Alyx doesn't die. Her dad dies, and if you enjoyed watching him die just because you hate Alyx then your heartless and I hate you.(joke)

bodyklok:

PedroSteckecilo:
(I actually don't like Alyx, and I was amused when she died, she comes across as far too smug... and Gordon is to old for her so their "relationship" is creepy).

What? Alyx doesn't die. Her dad dies, and if you enjoyed watching him die just because you hate Alyx then your heartless and I hate you.(joke)

Actually

really got to me. And Alyx does "die" she's just sort of "brought back".

Well. I can never listen to that song again...

...not that I did before anyway.

I haven't beaten Overlord 2 yet. I am working on it and am quite far in it but so far I have not felt motivated by some sense of world domination. Sure Gnarl seems to want me to as he whispers in my ear but my motivation this far has been a simple but effective one: REVENGE. Without revealing too much the first few minutes past the tutorial were all the motivation I need to do what I have been doing.

And the carrot for the mistresses (yes plural) is also a simple one: BREAST PHYSICS

lol

Also I think there is a difference between a character you assume the role of and a character you care about. The Overlord and Isaac are characters you are supposed to see thier world through. Where a character like Shepard you see from the outside.

And this has nothing to do with what perspective the game is actually in (first or third). I don't see any difference between the Overlord and Gordon Freeman.

i got a computer that can read thing to so IN YOUR FACE

There's actually a Japanese dating sim where you stab the chick in the throat and fuck the hole.
I think it's based on a gameshow there.

Oh deary me. I find myself at a loss for words; this is one of the few times that I completely disagree with Mr. Croshaw.

When we purchase something, we purchase it because of our expectations. When you buy an apple, you expect it to taste like an apple. When you buy a bed, you expect to be able to sleep on it. So when someone buys Overlord 2, they should expect to play as an overlord. It's one thing when games try to sneak a character's personality past the player to compensate for the fact that they didn't give him any (ex: Dead Space), but in Overlord 2, it's not very subtle is it? It's in the bloody title.

Yahtzee's biggest mistake was assuming that the game is trying to make us care; it doesn't, and it shouldn't. What it does do is establish a role, a filled niche for us to tamper with. We're not called the players for nothing you know?

Gaming was established on the foundation that people wanted to be something/someone else; you know, escape? They didn't even need for us to care about the role we were playing, just as long as we got away. If every game tried to make us care about our role, it suddenly isn't a game anymore, it's a second life, and the game becomes one long tutorial level (ex: GTA IV.)

I guess that as games got more modern, so did our expectations. We started off filling in someone's shoes; now it seems they have to be our shoes in order for us to give a crap. People don't care about characters, stories, or concepts; they care about the game itself. Our obsession with video games may have created our so called culture, but it's also created far too much criticism. The result; more games with sullen protagonists, more games with havoc physics, and more games that are borderline reality.

Overlord 2 was, in my eyes, a terrible game (the controls are what got me mostly), but at least it had unique depth. We can't expect to care about every universe a game presents us; we can only expect a role, and to have fun playing it.

I'm sorry if this comes off as a bit of a rant. I'm going to walk my dog now.

PS- I like the idea of Yahtzee following up on his reviews, it gives a lot more room for discussion, which is what the internet is all about.

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