EDGE of Asshattery

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theklng:
so just because every steals, does that make it a legal action to perform?

the answer is no, and just because you have had it happened to you that you had to work long hours or otherwise, it doesn't mean that it should continue. it doesn't mean that it should decrease your quality of life or make you physically or mentally ill. there are laws for these issues for a reason.

a good project manager will know how to schedule deadlines or milestones so that the most risky, critical or otherwise difficult components won't be made last minute. then, if E3 was coming along, you wouldn't the problem of working 60 hours up until game day. you would, in other words, be prepared instead of unprepared.

i could write much more about this, but i suspect you'll get the gist of this.

"a good project manager will know how to schedule deadlines or milestones so that the most risky, critical or otherwise difficult components won't be made last minute."

Have you ever heard of a developer who did this? Ever? Nice and smooth and even all the way to launch day? I guess, according to you, there is no such thing as a good project manager since this doesn't happen in this industry.

I worked in a warehouse for a distributor that sold videos and music. We only had so many employees, so when we had a big project show up, even "crunching", there was only so much you could do. We would hire dozens of temps to do the project, and then let them go. You can't do that when you're making a game. You can't arbitrarily add two dozen employees to "help." And you can't hire those two dozen employees at the beginning and have them stand around picking their navels until they're needed.

Making a game is an A-to-Z process and you have to get their alphabetically. You can't do "Z" until "Y" is done, and there's just simply nothing you can do to speed up the process of A-to-K. That's a long process with a few people. Once you get past "K" there's more "nose to the grindstone" work, and by the time you get to "W" it's "bust your ass until it's done."

I still think you're not grasping the idea of "crunch time" and "overall mistreatment of employees." Crunch time is not a big deal. It's the 50-60 hours, every single week, when it's obvious there's a problem. There's no way to avoid crunch time without bringing in extra people, and turning out an inferior game.

Like he said, his turnover speaks for itself.

Shamus Young:
If I'd been running Mobigame, I would have sucked it up and renamed my game from "Edge" to "Tim Langdell sodomizes the corpses of orphaned children who he may or may not have killed with his bare hands." It's not quite as catchy, but I'll bet Langdell didn't think to trademark it. On the other hand, I've never made a game and nobody has ever entrusted me with anything more dangerous than a pencil, so maybe it's a good thing I'm not coming up with titles for games.

He may not have that trademarked, but I bet he has Tim Langdell trademarked.

Is he welsh? If we can get him to England, English law says it's legal to shoot a welsh man after midnight on a sunday with a cross bow. :D

Mimsofthedawg:

Shamus Young:
If I'd been running Mobigame, I would have sucked it up and renamed my game from "Edge" to "Tim Langdell sodomizes the corpses of orphaned children who he may or may not have killed with his bare hands." It's not quite as catchy, but I'll bet Langdell didn't think to trademark it. On the other hand, I've never made a game and nobody has ever entrusted me with anything more dangerous than a pencil, so maybe it's a good thing I'm not coming up with titles for games.

He may not have that trademarked, but I bet he has Tim Langdell trademarked.

If that's the case, maybe we should be calling him something else. 'Cockgobbler' strikes me as a good name.

SpaceGhost2K:
"a good project manager will know how to schedule deadlines or milestones so that the most risky, critical or otherwise difficult components won't be made last minute."

Have you ever heard of a developer who did this? Ever? Nice and smooth and even all the way to launch day? I guess, according to you, there is no such thing as a good project manager since this doesn't happen in this industry.

i have, and you see all the time with regular software developers. i have to ask the question: what do you know about the industry? have you tried working in it or are you just basing everything about it on what you read on the web and your own assumptions? the thing about news on the web is that they only post when things to WRONG, not when things go right. there are game projects that go smoothly, but they're hardly interesting for news sources since they are the norm.

I worked in a warehouse for a distributor that sold videos and music. We only had so many employees, so when we had a big project show up, even "crunching", there was only so much you could do. We would hire dozens of temps to do the project, and then let them go. You can't do that when you're making a game. You can't arbitrarily add two dozen employees to "help." And you can't hire those two dozen employees at the beginning and have them stand around picking their navels until they're needed.

i hate to pull this on you, but don't compare manual labor to an industry where you have god damn strategies to take care of management and data. scientists and developers have developed ways to counter more or less any situation that may arise in any project. those people whom of you hear just don't want to do that little bit of extra work in the beginning that makes the whole process smooth towards the end.

Making a game is an A-to-Z process and you have to get their alphabetically. You can't do "Z" until "Y" is done, and there's just simply nothing you can do to speed up the process of A-to-K. That's a long process with a few people. Once you get past "K" there's more "nose to the grindstone" work, and by the time you get to "W" it's "bust your ass until it's done."

this is absolute bull. making a game, or any software project is rarely a linear path. sure there are small linear bits, but for the most part you can work concurrently on what have you. software architecture and design is all about concurrent development, because you'd never reach the end of a project if a game was getting done sequentially. with good software practices, a programmer won't have to wait for another programmer to finish his work in order to do his own. a level designer won't need a finished engine to use the level editor; nor will a creative director have to wait for the game designer(s) to finish the design doc in order to create an atmosphere for the game.

it really pisses me off when people start talking about things they have no idea of.

I still think you're not grasping the idea of "crunch time" and "overall mistreatment of employees." Crunch time is not a big deal. It's the 50-60 hours, every single week, when it's obvious there's a problem. There's no way to avoid crunch time without bringing in extra people, and turning out an inferior game.

crunch is a big deal, and if you'd read up about the industry, it is beginning to be a problem. not just because of the legal 48+ hours rule, but also because the private life gets diminished. i honestly think you should try applying in the industry yourself before you go and say you support work ethics that were made from the 1950s.

Like he said, his turnover speaks for itself.

does that mean he can set an example for every company in the industry? what works for him does not necessarily work world wide. if this becomes the norm, you'll see people leaving the industry due to quality of life and physical problems - and that's not what this industry is about.

in additional, i urge you not to spew bull when you have no idea about how project management or software architecture work. instead, you can feel free to go look up the development cycles that most if not all developers use for concurrency. so please, read up on things before you talk. people have been long enough in this business to figure out the right and the wrong ways to do things. sadly, because the game industry is still young, people still have problems making things work properly.

Haha, I have an email. Spam him, boys!

corp@edgegames.com
OR
corp@edgegames.co.uk
OR
dev@edgegames.com

Susan Arendt:
Hey, hey, let's stop wishing physical harm on the guy, ok? Karma, people, karma.

Then wouldnt it be Karma biting him in the ass?

FROGGEman2:
Haha, I have an email. Spam him, boys!

corp@edgegames.com
OR
corp@edgegames.co.uk
OR
dev@edgegames.com

Hahah excellent!
I email him a link to this thread so he can see all the love.
I might sign him upto Adult Friend Finder later :0

FROGGEman2:
Haha, I have an email. Spam him, boys!

corp@edgegames.com
OR
corp@edgegames.co.uk
OR
dev@edgegames.com

That would be a dumb thing to do and would achive allmost nothing.

Yes, please do not spam or harass personally. Even complete assholes have rights.

This just in: Activision have made Tim Langdell CEO!

It can only happen soon......
Although, I might trademark whatever he might be calling his next game. Just to piss him off.

Hey Tim! EDGE EDGE EDGE EDGE EDGE

You won't get a penny out of me, nor a word in edgeways....

(Pardon that joke but I felt it had to be done :P)

Shamus Young:
Yes, please do not spam or harass personally. Even complete assholes have rights.

I did email him, just the link to this thread, and heres his response
Dear John

Thank you for contacting Edge. The information on the website in question is extremely inaccurate. Please do not believe what you read on such websites. If you have any questions for us, please do not hesitate to ask us.

Edge Games, Inc.

Its pretty standard stuff.

Why did Apple help this Langdell?

If anybody needs their life destroyed by Anonymous, it's him.

theklng:
stuff

Sorry man. We're gonna have to just agree to disagree. I see his point, I think it's a valid point, and while his company might not be representative of all companies, he doesn't RUN all companies so he can hardly be held accountable for others.

This thread was turning into a show about you and me, so I'm dropping it.

SpaceGhost2K:

theklng:
stuff

Sorry man. We're gonna have to just agree to disagree. I see his point, I think it's a valid point, and while his company might not be representative of all companies, he doesn't RUN all companies so he can hardly be held accountable for others.

This thread was turning into a show about you and me, so I'm dropping it.

feel free to pm me with your reply if you feel uncomfortable posting here.

I hope mr.Langdell falls into a situation where he is sodomized by various land animals with falices that exceed the length of 2 feet. >:I

I apologize for that last comment...*sigh* what can you do... Money is a god and its gospel is strong.

theklng:

SpaceGhost2K:

theklng:
stuff

Sorry man. We're gonna have to just agree to disagree. I see his point, I think it's a valid point, and while his company might not be representative of all companies, he doesn't RUN all companies so he can hardly be held accountable for others.

This thread was turning into a show about you and me, so I'm dropping it.

feel free to pm me with your reply if you feel uncomfortable posting here.

Not uncomfortable. I just think we said what we wanted to say and were monopolizing the thread... not to mention the Capps issue is not the Langdell issue. People who have a problem with Capps have some method of recourse. People who have a problem with Langdell are just plain over a barrel.

Tim Langdell is the best thing to happen to the games industry since Jack Thompson. But unfortunately Mr Thompson has fallen from the limelight, but we're missing someone to blame so perhaps he'll take up the mantle of lawsuits and games.

Anyway, what's a good industry without any drama? Thanks for supplying it, there hasn't been an excessively graphical game for the media to bash for some time.

Oh, and thanks for the article. Amusingly infuriating.

Technically, does that mean he can claim Squeenix is doing the same thing by calling the FFIV ninja Edge?
If he can do that, I'm gonna copyright "E" and sue him for using something I copyrighted.

The Escapist Forums: Where the world's idiocy is gathered and ridiculed on a daily basis.

As I'm sure more than one person has already mentioned in this thread... it astounds me how someone has been allowed to get away with this without being either thrown in prison, or beaten within an inch (or more) of this life.

This reminds me of the whole Warner Music Group thing, where in Warner somehow suddenly and magically owns you, your soul, your music, and your firstborn if you sign a contract with them. Anyone remember the bullshit they and Google caused the poor unsuspecting users of YouTube early this year? I doubt that's been taken care of yet either...

It really is an outright crime, and just further proof that the copyright and trademark industry are not, in fact, going down the shitter but have been there for quite some time.. enough that they've decorated and made it feel quite comfortable.

Seriously, I'm being one-hundred-perfect honest here. The person who made the game Edge should be perfectly within his right to tel Tim Langdell to shove it where the sun doesn't shine. It's a word, used in passing for years and year (even before Langdell got his grubby hands on it). It shouldn't be logically possible for him to somehow get control of absolutely every single use of the word Edge. Not only that, but he is showing his true colours by not going after EA for Mirror's Edge, as Shamus so correctly pointed out.

Food For Thought: How many people here know that the "Happy Birthday" song is also owned by Warner Music Group? According to them, if you sing it, you apparently owe them quite a lot of money. Anyone else see a problem with that? Anyone else see a strong resemblence to the situation in this thread?

Hiroshi Mishima:
As I'm sure more than one person has already mentioned in this thread... it astounds me how someone has been allowed to get away with this without being either thrown in prison, or beaten within an inch (or more) of this life.

This reminds me of the whole Warner Music Group thing, where in Warner somehow suddenly and magically owns you, your soul, your music, and your firstborn if you sign a contract with them. Anyone remember the bullshit they and Google caused the poor unsuspecting users of YouTube early this year? I doubt that's been taken care of yet either...

It really is an outright crime, and just further proof that the copyright and trademark industry are not, in fact, going down the shitter but have been there for quite some time.. enough that they've decorated and made it feel quite comfortable.

Seriously, I'm being one-hundred-perfect honest here. The person who made the game Edge should be perfectly within his right to tel Tim Langdell to shove it where the sun doesn't shine. It's a word, used in passing for years and year (even before Langdell got his grubby hands on it). It shouldn't be logically possible for him to somehow get control of absolutely every single use of the word Edge. Not only that, but he is showing his true colours by not going after EA for Mirror's Edge, as Shamus so correctly pointed out.

Food For Thought: How many people here know that the "Happy Birthday" song is also owned by Warner Music Group? According to them, if you sing it, you apparently owe them quite a lot of money. Anyone else see a problem with that? Anyone else see a strong resemblence to the situation in this thread?

The "Happy Birthday" song issue is a lot more complicated than that.

am I the only one that feels like making a small indy game and naming it Edge Edge Edgy Edge Edge?

Ah what wonderful humans run our overly complex little looneyhouse that we call "earth"?

Yea I'm afraid I can't say much else here that isn't already in the process of being thought up or has been planned already, but really... does anyone know where these forums are where they are trying to stop Langdel's infuriatingly BS attempt of GRADE AAA CYBER-BULLYING? GET THE JUDGE FROM THE UK HERE!

Susan Arendt:
Hey, hey, let's stop wishing physical harm on the guy, ok? Karma, people, karma.

karma is bullshit, just take a look at most of those greedy Roman nobles from the bronze-dark ages.

Some of them ended up as the richest men in the world simply by behaving like total shitheads.

There was this one guy for example that made millions from creating his own fire department to put down fires from other people's property's, but unlike most fire departments who just get over there and put fires down to safe people's property's he actually demanded that the people owning the property's on fire sold him there property that was one fire for small sums of money and once they had done so he then put down the fires himself and then sold the property again for huge profits making him according to wikipedia on of the top 10 richest men in history! Karma my ass!

That guy will probably get away with this this just like the rest of the greedy corporate fucks.

EDIT: Wait, according to wikipedia that say guy was later taken by his enemy's in Parthia and his own silver was melted and forced down into his throat. Perhaps if we are lucky someone will do the same thing to this bastards only with coins rather then silver.

Hardcore_gamer:

Susan Arendt:
Hey, hey, let's stop wishing physical harm on the guy, ok? Karma, people, karma.

karma is bullshit, just take a look at most of those greedy Roman nobles from the bronze-dark ages.

Some of them ended up as the richest men in the world simply by behaving like total shitheads.

There was this one guy for example that made millions from creating his own fire department to put down fires from other people's property's, but unlike most fire departments who just get over there and put fires down to safe people's property's he actually demanded that the people owning the property's on fire sold him there property that was one fire for small sums of money and once they had done so he then put down the fires himself and then sold the property again for huge profits making him according to wikipedia on of the top 10 richest men in history! Karma my ass!

That guy will probably get away with this this just like the rest of the greedy corporate fucks.

EDIT: Wait, according to wikipedia that say guy was later taken by his enemy's in Parthia and his own silver was melted and forced down into his throat. Perhaps if we are lucky someone will do the same thing to this bastards only with coins rather then silver.

That's quite possibly the most random interpretation of these events yet!
sweet....

hopeneverdies:

Xombee:
Is "Professional Troll" on this guy's resume? You'd think someone with common sense who flips through these complaints would go, "Yeah... this guy is a parasite. Fuck his claim."

Professional Troll huh? What say we show him the "Banhammer"?

Annnnnnnyway, this guy is pretty much a clear cut case why I really don't like the justice system. Whoever has the better lawyer wins. We have some rich guy with very few games to his name, but plenty of lawsuits vs. an indie developer who is practically broke. Rich guy buys the better lawyer and the court provides a much less experienced one for the defense. And it's not like Apple is being very helpful.

And of course he goes for the little guy instead of taking on the giant EA despite using trademarked material. The school bully metaphor is exactly what it is.

I know this is all over now and all that, but I'd just like to point out, that in a law suit, in most countries, over copyright/trademarks the fact he isn't going after EA and other big companies helps out the defence, you need to maintain your copyright/trademark in order to keep it, by only going after small fish and not the big ones he cuts his own throat.

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