axcho:

I totally agree with this sentiment. However...

I think they just changed this, actually. :p

"Except for Contestant Materials, (defined below) all games submitted to The Escapist become property of The Escapist, including any intellectual property rights in Escapist materials or derivations thereof. The Escapist reserves all rights, including intellectual property rights to publication, re-publication and distribution. However, contestant shall own all intellectual property rights in any art, design, or source code, that is not based on or derived from The Escapist's existing intellectual property ("Contestant Materials") and Contestant hereby grants The Escapist a royalty-free, non-exclusive license to any Contestant Materials as they are incorporated into any entry for the purpose of publication, re-publication and distribution of the entry."

Yay.

Any thoughts on my blog post about Zero Punctuation Interactive? :)

It definitely looks like they've made some changes to try to be way more reasonable and are working towards just the sort of license that I'd be perfectly fine with. The updated bit although a little unclearly worded, definitely says that they you still get to own your work, but that you grant them the right to put it up on their web site or do most anything else they want with it. Those are terms I consider reasonable.

However, farther down, it still says "Entrants surrender copyright and all interests therein of their submissions to Themis Group, Inc. with the understanding that the materials may be used for promotional purposes." So the terms, as written right now, have contradictions between the "some extra guidelines" part and the "legal stuff" part. So I'm going to go ahead and view this as a good faith effort to make the terms more reasonable and start work with the assumption that this sort of thing will have been fully revised before submission time and that by that point the spirit of the new guidelines will have prevailed. If it hasn't been, then I'll simply rebrand the game, change the images, and use it elsewhere.

Vanguard1219:

L4Y Duke:

Vanguard1219:

L4Y Duke:
I don't really know enough about indie game development to enter this competition.

But, so long as the winning game features the floating head of Peter Molyneaux as a boss, then I'll be happy.

Well damn, you just figured out how one of my levels is going to end :/

... and before you ask, the disembodied head of Molyneaux is going to fly around and shoot lasers out of his mouth. It just wouldn't be the same if he didn't.

Obviously. Mind you, eye-beams work just as well.

Not really. With mouth lasers I'm able to add the very clever sub-text that Molyneaux is trying to kill you with all of his lofty and empty promises.

True.

Spinwhiz:
Okay, here are some responses to questions people have been asking:

...

3) Can we only use the ZP assets The Escapist has provided for us?

Yes. Please use what we have given to you. The logos must stay the same, except for the size, but you can use the art within the screenshots in any way you choose. Please note though, any alteration to our art assets ARE STILL OUR ART ASSETS. You are NOT allowed to use them outside of this event because they are still part of Zero Punctuation and are covered under our copyright.

...

Can we recreate ZP epps? How about cutting, splicing, or isolating the Audio from the asset pack?

*Edit* i.e. pulling out comments for a Yatzee character to use during play

I get it! This in an theEscapistMagazinez competition and such we're given allowance to use tehEscapist'z ZP media, not Yatzee's ZP media. Escapist did the intro, Escapist did the music, Escapist did the promos, Escapist dids teh thumbnails. Jolly good then =D

P.S. I would still like to know if recreating portions of the show fall under Fair Use (in your works with Yatzee as well as legally) and are usable in the game.

Cool, I always wanted to make a half decent browser game but was held back by poor graphical capabilities. Oh, and laziness. At least now I've been given some graphics to work with so that solves half the problem. I will be attempting this but I am only a novice in game development so I will almost certainly be beaten by someone who is actually good. Luckily I already have some experience in Flash so I can get started right away.

Oh, Oh, Oh... I've got another one. Can we post our games on the Escapist forums for feed back from the community, maybe after the competition?

Used to know a bare minimum of actionscript (basic buttons pretty much), figured I'd give learning the complexities of it a go. I was starting to learn Python recently, but I figure since this has come up, it'll be more enjoyable to make actionscript/Flash my learning project for the coming weeks.

Question though: does the actionscript used have to be a particular version? I know AS3 is currently in use, but I only have the means to create in AS 2.0. Will this be fine?

And this may be my lack of expertise on the subject, but is the source code exportable as a whole in some way using Flash? Past experience for me has had code scattered across various movie clips/buttons/frames and I'm a little confused about that.

Kilobyte:
Used to know a bare minimum of actionscript (basic buttons pretty much), figured I'd give learning the complexities of it a go. I was starting to learn Python recently, but I figure since this has come up, it'll be more enjoyable to make actionscript/Flash my learning project for the coming weeks.

Question though: does the actionscript used have to be a particular version? I know AS3 is currently in use, but I only have the means to create in AS 2.0. Will this be fine?

And this may be my lack of expertise on the subject, but is the source code exportable as a whole in some way using Flash? Past experience for me has had code scattered across various movie clips/buttons/frames and I'm a little confused about that.

It is 100% up to you what version of Actionscript you use. The Flash player is still compatible with both. If you do not care about which to use, then I would HIGHLY recommend AS3.

Regarding the source code. Just zip the whole thing (.fla, .as, .xml and so on) in a .rar file and send it.

Spinwhiz:

Again, regarding the source-code. Have you thought about the possibility that people will just cut out the dangerous code before sending it?

On a personnel note: Am I the only one who was slightly dissapointed that the 2 week deadline got extended by 2 months? Or maybe I am just sour that people now have time to learn the language, which gives me less chance to have the hat-man rain on my parade.

Ironically, I am working on a AS3 tutorial, with the target audience being the average Joe. If it gets done within a reasonable time for it to be usefull, I will be sure to share it.

If anyone knows how to make a game but is stumped on ideas me and my friend have some good ideas you could use.

Brief game suggestion, while I work on my own in the background.

Hmm... obviously as its being reviewed by Yahtzee it should be:

A liner sandbox game with strict binary morality of good and evil, no grey, with a sidekick heroine straight out of jrpg and the entire game interspersed with FPS shooter scenes where the bad guys are invisible and quick time events. Every save point, and it must have save points, is before a long, and of course unskipable, cinematic scene and the lead character should die if he cuts himself shaving.

And set it in silent hill so he forces himself to play all the way through.

curse your demand for using flash!

i can see the reasoning, flash games are very unlikely to hold viruses etc but it limits those of us who are unfortunate enough not to have flash IDE's.

Ah, nice resources. Too bad I checked those AFTER redrawing Yahtzee and the Big Daddy, haha.

tehbeard:
curse your demand for using flash!

i can see the reasoning, flash games are very unlikely to hold viruses etc but it limits those of us who are unfortunate enough not to have flash IDE's.

You dont need Flash to make a Flash game. You can use the free Flex 3 SDK( http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=flex3sdk ).

But I don't know if 2 months is enough to learn Actionscript3+Flex and make the game. But if you want to give a try, well, good luck.

But I don't know if 2 months is enough to learn Actionscript3+Flex and make the game. But if you want to give a try, well, good luck.

I made my first flash game in three weeks, when I started I didn't know any programming. It's definitely possible (though odds are the game won't be very good).

I would quite like to use game maker. Not only would this broaden who can enter but I know how to use it.

I'm very happy to see that the terms for this competition have changed for the better, you can expect a game from me now! What are the expectations on the entries? In terms om quality and gameplay time etc. Any guesses? And also, is this the only thread discussing this contest? I cant seem to find any other, but i might be missing some forum part, or is it perhaps that people are holding their cards close to their chest - it being a contest and all

Cheers
Z

EDIT; I would also very much like to know if we are allowed to use the ZP episodes or parts of them.

I request a monetary reward be added to the contest.

As is, the rewards here do not invite the individual but only the design firm which may, at the least, benefit of featuring a game at The Escapist by namesake and referral. But, you must agree, this does little to entice or excite the individual and non-professional game author.

While it would be "neat" to have a game featured at The Escapist, "neat" to receive a bag full of Zero Punctuation t-shirts and coffee mugs, and especially "neat" to be reviewed by sir Yahtzee himself, it is in no wise a proper reward for the labors surrounding the creation of a passable game; Certainly not for the aspiring individual who labors without the potential for the kind of back-end marketing benefits a firm might find.

I'm sure Ben Croshaw and the editors of The Escapist will agree that without prize money this contest is an exploitation of their fans and readers who, even in winning, would yet find their efforts to have gone vastly under-rewarded; and even as The Escapist's revenues increase off of that labor.

Please add a cash prize to this contest of an amount you find reasonably defensible against allegations of unfairly exploiting the fan base for the purpose of a one-sided gain.

Hi Peeps,

Here are a couple more questions that came up and answers to them.

1) Can we edit ZP music and videos and then use our edits in the game?

Yes. As before mentioned, the only assets that can NOT be altered, except for size, are our logos. But please be reminded that the music, videos, and other items are still The Escapist's intellectual property, and would not be considered "Contestant Materials" under the terms of the contest. In short, all ZP assets must be removed from the game after the event is over if you intend to make use of the art, design, or source code that you created.

2) If we create parodies of ZP for our game, does that mean we can keep all of our work, including the art?

No, it does not. In the case of the Great Stonking Game Contest, whether your content is parody or not is moot. We are giving a license to use our copyrights for purposes of creating a game for this contest. If you submit a game to the contest, you agree to the contest rules, which state that you only retain ownership on art, design or source code that is not based on or derived from our intellectual property; whether that basis is serious or satirical is irrelevant. People who wish to pursue legally defensible creations of parody without official sanction could do so in other venues, of course, just not in the Great Stonking Game Contest.

lol! so many complainers for a fun little conquest! :D

Long time ZP viewer, first time poster...

...everybody better just step off, because this contest is as good as mine! As an experienced Flash developer, I fully intend to bring my extensive industry experience to bear on this contest. My submission will make the rest of your entries appear paltry and weak. Abandon hope, ye who enter...

Seriously though. I am pleased with the slight revisions they made to the rules of the game. Knowing that I get to retain ownership of the code that I develop myself is reassuring, as I do like to recycle that sort of thing in my Flash projects. (I've written a few of my own pre-designed classes that I was planning on using) If anyone is worried about acquiring Flash for this contest, then just listen to the other posters who have already mentioned this.

You can download the FlexSDK from Adobe, and develop full-featured flash games using it.
You can download FlashDevelop, a comprehensive programming IDE for Actionscript 3.0, and use it to develop flash games. (in conjunction with the FlexSDK)

Both of these downloads are free, and 100% legitimate. I would mention a few other shortcuts I know, but I don't want to give anyone else too much of a leg up on me.

=( flash only. Very well, off to learn Actionscript. I'm probably not going to win (I don't know how to use actionscipt), but what the hell, not knowing the language didn't stop me in Java, and I'll be damned if it's gonna stop me in Flash.

Vanguard1219:

So, to clear this up quickly, the Escapist technically own any artwork for the game that I "reverse-engineered" off of materials that came in the released .rar archive?

Well, technically, no. According to the revised rules for the contest, the Escapist would not own artwork that you had reverse engineered. However, it stands to reason that any artwork you made for a game based on Zero Punctuation would not be usable in any other context. (since the various characters used in ZP are the intellectual property of the Escapist, or possibly Yahtzee, the point is they certainly aren't yours)

So the high-res vector rendering you make of Yahtzee's character would technically belong to you. But the actual character it portrays does not. So using that file to make your own ZP T-shirts, for example, would be illegal and land your ass in some serious hot water. This is always a danger for someone developing fan-art. You do technically own your work. But you cannot lay any claim to the subject matter being portrayed.

For my entry, I will be creating some unique source files for the art, and I don't intend to pass them along to the Escapist. Largely because the rules of the contest don't require it. They want the submission of source code, but source art files are not required. It makes sense, .PSD files can take up a lot of room. If you are creating all of your art in Flash, they will have access to it when you submit the FLA file.

One question: What font does Yahtzee use?
I'm trying to create a true Zero Punctuation experience here.

Mr Companion:
People seem apprehensive about investing time in this.

It could be because people are not so extatic about yahzee verbally assaulting them for three minuets about a game they would waste weeks or months of their personal time crafting.

Really? That's the main reason I'm making a game for this contest, I think it would be hilarious to have him tear my game to pieces, and if anyone is expecting their game to be treated any better, I don't think they've been watching ZP for long enough!

People are apprehensive about making a game here because the winner of the game is going to get diddly squat, not even a portion of advertising revenue, nope, all that goes to the escapist.

Every flash site in existence shares ad revenue with developers. Escapist shares ad revenue with video developers (unskippable, writers, so forth) but apparently this flash game is beneath them.

The funny thing is, because yahtzee will review it, it will be played by over a million players in no time at all, earning Escapist a nice 10,000+ $$ and all they had to do was write a contest for it.

But hey, we get a swag bag right? Well in the words of Yahtzee - <Enter Adjective Here> you!

BaneAustralia:
People are apprehensive about making a game here because the winner of the game is going to get diddly squat, not even a portion of advertising revenue, nope, all that goes to the escapist.

Every flash site in existence shares ad revenue with developers. Escapist shares ad revenue with video developers (unskippable, writers, so forth) but apparently this flash game is beneath them.

Did you also know that the majority of flash gaming sites don't let the game producers splash their own branding on the game? In fact, they avoid crediting them whenever possible. Those flash gaming portals want to promote their own branding, and regularly marginalize the efforts of the developers.

Flash gaming sites also don't share very much revenue with the original developers. This is largely because there is such a glut of flash games on line. How much money do you think you would get when they flash game portal you are using has a selection of thousands of games?

Flash game portals are not a good way to make money. The only reason any of you are getting up in arms about this is because you know that the Escapist already has a built-in audience for Zero Punctuation, so the winning entry is insured a certain degree of traffic.

This is a prestige piece. It is a way for an indie flash developer to get their game in front of a crap-ton of people, with their name on it, loud and proud. Contests are usually not considered commisioned work. They are a competition between the participants, and rarely ever insure a return on investment. Most contests have prizes that are not necessarily worth the efforts put into them. If you are not interested in the intangibles being offered here, by all means, don't submit an entry. One less effort for me to compete against.

Has it occured to you that most games based on an intellectual property require the developer to pay a liscencing fee to the liscence-holder? If this weren't a contest, you would be required to pay The Escapist to make a Zero Punctuation game.

Actually I'm more concerned about not winning. If I win then I get loads of people playing my game which is awesome but if I don't win (which is incredibly likely) then I have nothing to show for all the time I put into making the game. I really hope The Escapist makes all the games playable at least for a short while so we can see all the non-winners' hard work.

Hamster at Dawn:
Actually I'm more concerned about not winning.

Yeah, you SHOULD be! As I so arogantly boasted before, I'm bringing the heat on this one. If you aren't coding and producing art assets RIGHT NOW, then you are already behind. I'm actually working on producing my own iPhone app right now as well. So if you devote all of your free time to this, you might stand a sliver of a chance of overtaking me.

Also, I too hope that the runners-up also get posted in some capacity. Even if they are only posted in the message boards, I would still like to see the competition's efforts. I find perusing fan games to be very interesting, and you never know when you will run across an interesting idea in someone else's work.

But you're still all going down...

Richard Kain:

Hamster at Dawn:
Actually I'm more concerned about not winning.

Yeah, you SHOULD be! As I so arogantly boasted before, I'm bringing the heat on this one. If you aren't coding and producing art assets RIGHT NOW, then you are already behind. I'm actually working on producing my own iPhone app right now as well. So if you devote all of your free time to this, you might stand a sliver of a chance of overtaking me.

Also, I too hope that the runners-up also get posted in some capacity. Even if they are only posted in the message boards, I would still like to see the competition's efforts. I find perusing fan games to be very interesting, and you never know when you will run across an interesting idea in someone else's work.

But you're still all going down...

Good luck to you. I actually overheard Yahtzee saying something about "Quick Time Events". I'm not sure what that means but if you put a lot of them in your game then you're sure to win.

But you're still all going down...

I Love It! Bring it on :)

Okay, I actually have a question. (as opposed to just ranting and raving) Are we allowed to post screenshots from our game? I know that we aren't supposed to be displaying our game on-line in an un-secure, playable fashion. But are static .JPG screenshots kosher for the purpose of this contest? I would like to be able to show off my in-progress game, and I figure screenshots would probably be the most reasonable way to do that.

If you are looking for free tools to develop flashgames (in AS3), check out the credtis of "Soulmates": http://www.soulmates-game.de/node/22

In the credits, there are two pages about all the tools used (coding, video, audio, etc.)

On the rights and access and rewards and gain issue...

Okay in return for giving the game to escapist you will be receiving a reward. Your work will be reviewed and published on this site. If you are currently a flash game designer with sites and works, you'll receive more hits, more use and more advertising revenue. Even if the review is terrible everybody who visits will probably follow links to you site.

If you're unpublished, you'll become published and any site you set up will have the line, As seen on the Escapist showing on it.

So what's the problem if your first work is given away for an increase in profits on subsequent works.

Well in the words of Yahtzee - <Enter Adjective Here> you!

...adjective?

I think he means /verb

anyway, YAHTZEE! I don't care about the contest; can I submit one of my VB6 games for review? =D