Call of Juarez: Bound in Blood

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Call of Juarez: Bound in Blood

Yahtzee accepts the challenge: How would he fix Call of Juarez?

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I was wondering when this would come out. Good show Yahtzee. Also, I vote we start a petition to get more Westerns ending with Giant Robot Spider Fights(tm).

Its good to see these now, it gives us more about the games then what he can fit in 4 min and hes usually right

I also love that he reads atleast some of his comments. I wonder if he gets bored of reading the same thing for 6 or more pages?

"Tap X to wave it back and forth"

Wouldn't that make him want to shoot that, rather than the showdown fellow?

but, but, if they had a giant robot spider you would criticize it for being completely fucking random.

aside from that, you would think they would have learned from the showdowns in the first game, those were damn hard

The only thing fun about cowboys is PLAYING them. Even reading an article about a cowboy-game is boring. Wish I could still rent games so I could check this one out.

A giant spider fight... wasn't that in some Will Smith movie?

And they did overdo the showdowns. Maybe an epic horse chase throughout the wild west, followed by chasing him through an enemy infested ghost town, followed by a gunfight, then a cutscene where he says his final words. THAT is what should have happened.

Fat Man Spoon:
"Tap X to wave it back and forth"

Wouldn't that make him want to shoot that, rather than the showdown fellow?

I know I would

I liked the Article until the last two sentences when you flogged the Nintendo horse a bit more, besides, the Hardcore crowd are still with them to an extent, look at the reaction to a single bit of concept art involving Link and some weird looking blue girl.

I hope we can look forward to another crossdressing contest when Red Dead Redemption comes out though.
Not that I like that stuff or anything.

Fat Man Spoon:
"Tap X to wave it back and forth"

Wouldn't that make him want to shoot that, rather than the showdown fellow?

Exactly my thought :P

Anyway Yahtzee (eventhough youre probably not reading this) the Cowboys had a thing called honour, they'd rather kill through a totally fair showdown than my shooting someone in the face while he sleeps. Ofcourse it does break the flow of the game but if you take on a western theme you'd be silly not to include stuff like that...

Anyway I hope Extra Punctuation articles will stay a regular thing on The Escapist, while not as funny and whatever as the Zero Punctuation vids they provide a bit more actual information, and ofcourse some silly humour with it. And ranting. And more ranting.

Keep it up!

For the final little passage about the "Hardcore Gamer". . .

Thank you, just thank you.

With this whole cheating talk I was kinda expecting you to suggest adding cheating enemies as hazard to the duels, gotta avoid having a chair smashed over your head while you're waiting for the bell to ring or react to the enemy drawing before the bell rings (of course he wouldn't draw as fast or hit as unavoidably then).

By the way, casual gamers buy Mario games. Zelda TP would bore them out of their minds (we're talking about people who don't have time for that applesauce) but plain old 2D Mario seems to be something they like. At very least they bought it on the DS.

So they want the guns to be historically accurate, but then they include 'show downs' that NEVER actually happened? (They we're invented by hollywood)

As for 'fixing' the quickdraw boss fights I would agree that maybe they should be limited, or at least make them more flexible like allow your brother to distrupt or lay a trap or something.

I mean these guys are outlaws, so whos to say that they can't just throw some TNT at the guy, or draw early - not like they are gonna win any 'best behaved scout troop' badges or anything.

headshotcatcher:
Anyway Yahtzee (eventhough youre probably not reading this) the Cowboys had a thing called honour, they'd rather kill through a totally fair showdown than my shooting someone in the face while he sleeps.

Christ, they're not Samurai. Besides Cowboys were men who would run the cattle from the Ranch to the Railroad, not Gunslingers who's enemies would drop dead in the street with an unexplained bullet wound.

AmrasCalmacil:

headshotcatcher:
Anyway Yahtzee (eventhough youre probably not reading this) the Cowboys had a thing called honour, they'd rather kill through a totally fair showdown than my shooting someone in the face while he sleeps.

Christ, they're not Samurai. Besides Cowboys were men who would run the cattle from the Ranch to the Railroad, not Gunslingers who's enemies would drop dead in the street with an unexplained bullet wound.

Pistols at dawn, bring nobody

As for the cowboys stuff, you know what I meant with that..

headshotcatcher:

Anyway Yahtzee (eventhough youre probably not reading this) the Cowboys had a thing called honour, they'd rather kill through a totally fair showdown than my shooting someone in the face while he sleeps. Ofcourse it does break the flow of the game but if you take on a western theme you'd be silly not to include stuff like that...

Umm, honour? The honour of sending 50 billion hench-cowboys to kill you rather than coming for you themselves?
I think this game had already ignored of cowboy honour too much to go along with it for a boss fight.
Although yeah i agree cowboys do it all the time in movies etc. so its probably on the checklist for making a cowboy game.

headshotcatcher:

AmrasCalmacil:

headshotcatcher:
Anyway Yahtzee (eventhough youre probably not reading this) the Cowboys had a thing called honour, they'd rather kill through a totally fair showdown than my shooting someone in the face while he sleeps.

Christ, they're not Samurai. Besides Cowboys were men who would run the cattle from the Ranch to the Railroad, not Gunslingers who's enemies would drop dead in the street with an unexplained bullet wound.

Pistols at dawn, bring nobody

As for the cowboys stuff, you know what I meant with that..

Pistols? I choose the Banjo.

I've never been a fan of game devs trying to make gameplay ultra realistic because then we end up with situations such as this. As soon as you get into the game immersion starts to break as soon as there is some slight flaw or imperfection which there will ALWAYS be. Games like this deserve to be movies, not an interactive experience. Realism is dull and tedious. I'd rather be having a sword fight with a velociraptor on a tightrope over a pit of lava.

Very well done. I'm glad we're getting this new articles every Friday- it helps illuminate Yahtzee's thoughts on the game he's just reviewed, and he makes a lot of good points, especially the bit about hardcore gamers. I look forward to seeing more of these in the future.

AmrasCalmacil:

headshotcatcher:
Anyway Yahtzee (eventhough youre probably not reading this) the Cowboys had a thing called honour, they'd rather kill through a totally fair showdown than my shooting someone in the face while he sleeps.

Christ, they're not Samurai. Besides Cowboys were men who would run the cattle from the Ranch to the Railroad, not Gunslingers who's enemies would drop dead in the street with an unexplained bullet wound.

he's right you know, there are cowboys today, but now the ride ATVs and get dead cows off the road

I regard casual games as a brain cleanser, a mental sorbet, something light to enjoy before you goad a Big Daddy into charging through tripwires and landmines or taking yet another hack at passing Painkiller.

As for the entire Nintendo thing, as much as I love Yahtzee, I think he's got a bit of a double standard going. In his Gears of War 2 review, he says that things that are mainstream, in order to stay mainstream and profitable, have to stay the same. I think that's what the Mario, Metroid, and Zelda hardcore gamers are looking for, more of the same. But that's what he rags on Nintendo for doing. I've been playing DDR for 9 years now, and all I expect out of the next version is new songs.

Really, I can't stand the Nintendo Wii. I'm over its gimmicks of motion control. If I wanted to play motion-control baseball, I'd go get some buddies together and go to the park. Same applies with basketball, football, blah blah blah.

But then there's the problem of "causal gaming." Look, I can understand not wanting to delve half the day into beating one part of a really hard game. That's all well and good. But then there are hardcore gamers who actually care about gaming. Now I don't think casual gaming is in any way bad, but I do think it's kind of a step backwards. Casual games like Peggle, Bejeweled and Zuma are nothing but glorified flash games, and packaging them and shipping them out to the masses is nothing short of a ripoff. Especially since for $20 American more you could get the newest blood-and-guts murder-thon.

Y'know, looking at that too, why are most of the games these days killfests? What happened to playing a game because it's fun? No, I'm not talking about games like Madden, I have severe reservations about copy-pasting last year's exact copy of Madden '89 with only slight graphical and gameplay tweaks in that it's not game development it's re-selling garbage. I mean games like...uh...oh who am I trying to kid, the over-the-top splatterfests are fun. But seriously, not every game needs to be guns that shoot red mist clouds. I mean look at Portal, the only example I've ever seen of 3D puzzle games that works. No violence there (unless you step in front of a turret). Just you, a portal gun and a computer egging you on.

Kanazuchi:
As for the entire Nintendo thing, as much as I love Yahtzee, I think he's got a bit of a double standard going. In his Gears of War 2 review, he says that things that are mainstream, in order to stay mainstream and profitable, have to stay the same. I think that's what the Mario, Metroid, and Zelda hardcore gamers are looking for, more of the same. But that's what he rags on Nintendo for doing. I've been playing DDR for 9 years now, and all I expect out of the next version is new songs.

While I agree with you to an extent, I think you're also missing the point to an extent. A hardcore gamer will get bored without some form of innovation or some little addition to breathe a little life back into the game.

Let's step away from console/pc controller/feedback bashing for a minute and look at personal experience.

I'll take an example for myself, I loved the original FEAR, and even Extraction Point the first expansion I still considered a good game. Everything that came after that though, was just more of the same to me. Nothing was new, and granted I played the games, I just didn't really enjoy them at all. There was no real challenge because of course by then I had basically mastered the combat system for the game and it was a dead straight play through. I did not die one time playing through the recently released FEAR 2, and don't misunderstand that's not a brag at all. That's actually a criticism.

If you are playing the same thing over and over, and you are actually a committed gamer the AI quickly becomes ridiculously predictable, the game format holds no challenge and story development often seems to start moving backwards or parallel to such a degree all real interest is lost. It's no longer a good game, it's a trivial way to pass the time.

Placating the mainstream crowd and the 'hardcore' gamer, I think to a degree go hand in hand. I honestly don't think anyone wants the exact same thing over and over again, if that was the case we'd all still be playing pong in full glorious monochrome.

We all want something innovative and new... and even if it doesn't work most true gamers will at least give the game credit for trying. This was true with Mirror's Edge. It may have missed the mark but it was different enough to warrant mention by just about everyone I know that played it. Even Yahtzee here gave it a bit of honorable mention for just trying, and I honestly felt the same.

I'll stop there because my post is getting as long as his article. I hope I made my point to some extent though.

Kanazuchi:
I regard casual games as a brain cleanser, a mental sorbet, something light to enjoy before you goad a Big Daddy into charging through tripwires and landmines or taking yet another hack at passing Painkiller.

As for the entire Nintendo thing, as much as I love Yahtzee, I think he's got a bit of a double standard going. In his Gears of War 2 review, he says that things that are mainstream, in order to stay mainstream and profitable, have to stay the same. I think that's what the Mario, Metroid, and Zelda hardcore gamers are looking for, more of the same. But that's what he rags on Nintendo for doing. I've been playing DDR for 9 years now, and all I expect out of the next version is new songs.

Unfortunately for you and me I belive the dream is dying.

I still don't see why these people don't leave their options open.
I'm sure they probably make the light fluffy 'softcore' stuff for other systems (not that I would notice) but if this teaches Nintendo a lesson and puts them in the toilet then I say good show, we learned.

Proteus214:
I've never been a fan of game devs trying to make gameplay ultra realistic because then we end up with situations such as this. As soon as you get into the game immersion starts to break as soon as there is some slight flaw or imperfection which there will ALWAYS be. Games like this deserve to be movies, not an interactive experience. Realism is dull and tedious. I'd rather be having a sword fight with a velociraptor on a tightrope over a pit of lava.

Yeah, the uncanny valley effect, a game needs to either be unrealistic or perfectly realistic (which is almost impossible) or people feel uncomfortable.

Also, I agree that the showdowns would have worked a lot better if the game had given the player a choice on how he wanted to go about doing them, or if he wanted to do them at all.

Well at least he changed the quotation formatting to italics. I'm happy.

At least the showdowns are more kind of realistic this time round. Unlike the previous game's inconsistency of waving the bloody crosshairs everywhere like your characters right arm is made of jelly. Although the ability to sidestep left and right like a very quick bunny would have been very useful here.

Still, COJ:BIB is one of the better western shooters around, at least 'til red dead redemption comes out.

One thing, though - if the "Hardcore" mantle belongs to the righteous, the just, etc., what's the term for those OCD tweakers who fixate on hoarding cheevos and boast of plowing through five shitty games a week just to get their GamerScore up?

I've heard such people claiming the title as their own - perhaps only because "Hardcore Gamer" sounds sexier than "Compulsive Gamer", "Problem Gamer", etc...

I'm surprissed that there arn't just as many western games as there are irritating, repetitive, worn down, ww2 ,call of duty 2 (not 1 or 3 or waw) wannabe's. i can only think of 4 western games.( and one of thems about poker!)

My god.

A description of a "hardcore" gamer that doesn't instantly insult anyone who doesn't play Halo/Gears of War/whatever other casual bullshit is masquerading as "hardcore" these days?

I'm in shock.

Nintendo has a grip on us and they know it. Sure, we might whine a bunch about not getting Mario or Zelda games, but once they make one? We'll be there to eat them up. There are enough people who grew up on these games that the nostalgia factor will continue to draw us in, and once we're drawn in, the games are generally well done.

Yahtzee's point has greater strength, however, when one considers the counter-nostalgia factor of the Wii's controls. Yes, it's great to see Mario, Link and their band of hooligans on screen, but the nostalgia is weakened by the simple fact that the controls feel radically different. Up through the Gamecube, the controllers have felt like upgrades to the original controller. Now we have a completely different setup where we're flailing a stick around, and it might still be fun, but it doesn't feel the same. As far as simple nostalgia's concerned, that's a strike against it.

Bitter but true words with the last statements about last week's Wii Resort. However I will put some of the blame on the hardcore NINTENDO fan since the only reason Nintendo went with the casual market is they lost out in the last few generations, and I'd say that those who previously owned their consoles clearly didn't buy enough as opposed to hardcore games on other systems (PC to).

As for CoJ... meh. I'm not entirely sold, I mean I'm sure it has fun elements but I'm getting to impression that its good enough, but I'm low on cash right now and so good enough isn't... good enough. I want great.

The willy joke is ingenious. And overall,Extra Punctuations is a good thing,because it manages to be informative while retaining dick jokes.

Kollega:
The willy joke is ingenious. And overall,Extra Punctuations is a good thing,because it manages to be informative while retaining dick jokes.

and after all that's why we're all really here now isn't

..oh wait

WTF!?!

I remember playing Red Dead Revolver. Every major boss fight amounted to a showdown, which I never understood. It seems like Call of Juarez is the same way. I feel like showdowns are cool concepts for Western games, but they ultimately ruin the experience when as Yathzee said in the review, "It's not just that it's repetitive; with difficulty curves being what they are each one has to be harder than the last, and the only way to do that is to make the baddie draw faster." I was able to beat the last boss, but it just seems ridiculous that you have to be perfect by the end of the game with the showdowns. I understand the oppenent is the compurter generated AI, but they are supposed to act human, therefore have flaws. I think the idea should be left out of games, except perhaps in minigames, or perhaps a showdown tournament. In Red Dead Revolver, there was a tournament of showdowns. If it had been just that tournament, I probably would have walked away with a different opinion of these showdowns in Western games.

Im all for the odd boss fight where you just shoot the guy in the face with little or no resistance. It can work really well.

Examples include the end of The Darkness, parts of rainbow 6 and the end of COD 4.

IT fit with the story and was good as it was a change from the rest of the game. If a level is fun and challenging it doesn't always need a boss fight at the end.

Other ideas include a "boss" type event. Eg: Having to run some sort of gauntlet to plant TNT in the right place of a mine/building/bridge/etc. The last boss bit could be a simple as lighting the fuse and watching your hard work come to fruition.

We've had last bosses since the 80's. Think outside the box a little more.

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