Han Solo You're Getting Old

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Han Solo You're Getting Old

Is Han Solo, one of the great geek antiheroes, getting a little stale?

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I agree, it is getting old.

The problem is that if a character is trying to be anything else but an anti-hero, he''s looked upon as a goody-two-shoes or an emu. Sorry, wait. I mean an emo.(God how I hate that word.)

HG131:
I agree, it is getting old.

It's a shame, but yes. When I first saw the movie, the character was all new and cool. But now... Why does everything beautiful have to get coppied?

Oh Noes! Stereotypes are overused. Alert the presses.
P.S. I feel like the first movie in the Star Wars trilogy focused Luke, but you can't really say that for the other two. I mean in Empire, most of the movie is about Solo and Leia's relationship, and he still plays huge role in Jedi. So for the most part it seems Luke plays second fiddle to him.

he also was a male ice figure skater.

respect,you have been lost

EDIT:wait,thats luke,my bad

Tom Endo thinks Admiral Ackbar is the next great sidekick.

It's a trap!

Anyway, I agree that Han Solo is getting a bit overplayed. What I really want to see is a completely unpredictable character. A chaotic neutral character who stumbles into conflicts, and can't always be counted on. Sometimes he wins, sometimes he loses, but that's the way the story goes. And you can continue on even if you lost, the story is just changed.

I want to play a character who loses all his money on a single hand of poker, then is forced to do some kind of dirty work for the casino owner like drive a bomb to an enemy building, but instead he drives it to a bank so he can blow up the safe and take the money, then proceeds to go back to the casino and blow it all on a single hand of poker.

Nooo Han isn't old
He's just...experienced yeah. That's it he's just experienced

I want that 5 mins of my life back.
There's a big difference between cliche and archetype.

I have some ideas if you guys are running out.

bue519:
Oh Noes! Stereotypes are overused. Alert the presses.
P.S. I feel like the first movie in the Star Wars trilogy focused Luke, but you can't really say that for the other two. I mean in Empire, most of the movie is about Solo and Leia's relationship, and he still plays huge role in Jedi. So for the most part it seems Luke plays second fiddle to him.

I think you might have watched different versions of Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi than I have. ESB is entirely about Luke, and his journey from apprentice to Jedi Knight and RotJ is the realisation of the events of the previous movie and sees Luke face up to his destiny and redeem his father.

Everything that Han does in those movies ties back in to Luke. He stays out on Hoth longer than he should because he's searching for Luke, he gets tracked by Boba Fett to bait a trap for Luke, he gets frozen in carbonite to make sure that Luke will survive it, etc, etc.

I really liked this article. I found it funny, though, that this article follows the Han solo "type" - starts out with a bad boy critique of the character and his ilk, but ultimately does the good thing and praises Han for his influence on modern characters. Don't know if that makes sense, but if intentional, that's a damn good thematic parallel!

Well I would agree that the anti hero is getting over played, if it wasn't thousands of years old. It was a term first used in ancient Greek drama just like the Protagonist and Antagonist. It would be like arguing that books are getting predictable since they all have a build up and climax. Star Wars is actually an exact copy of the Arthurian legend or a basic Medieval quest. So I wouldn't argue that Han Solo is becoming stale, I would argue that authors and film makers are limited to what they can create because of the past archetypes. It's very rare to find something truly original because of thousands of years worth of literature before it. So while the anti hero is an old concept, Han Solo was actually a very nice spin on the old tale. He had no inner torment or shaded past like Batman, Spawn, or Euripides. He was just a guy trying to make a buck in a treacherous empire controlled world.

the actor is old, the character type is old, but the character himself is classic and is one of the best parts of the original trilogy

han solo was the original blame the copies of him that don't do him justice however characters like riddick do don't they?

I don't know about you but Han Solo has never really seemed very "Anti-Hero" to me, he's more of a reluctant Hero. A good guy at heart who has just never really been in the right situation to become a proper "hero", at least not until the movies. An anti-Hero is usually a character who does the Wrong Thing for The Right Reasons or the Right Thing for The Wrong Reasons, I personally don't consider the "Mercenary" Instinct of doing the Right Thing for money to be the true mark of an Anti-Hero.

Oh yeah he's like 80 in the current books, and now hangs around Boba Fett (who's dying of cancer) and Fett's GRANDDAUGHTER.

As for the character type yeah, it needs a break, again.

Aye, the Han Solo archetype hero may be getting old, but where do we go from there? Do we come full circle and return to our polished infallible heroes, or do we just jump straight to heroes that are actually villains?

That sounds a bit confusing let me attempt to clear that up.

Will our next generation of heroes simply be a joker style character that goes around causing mayhem because he can, and as a side effect bring society a whole new perspective on the world?

Not at all what the joker does mind you, but he's the best fit description for that I can come up with at the moment.

Well the anti-hero who is never quite bad enough is getting old. It seems those types of characters do just enough "bad" to qualify for the anti-hero label but everything else about them says good. Which is why i prefer anti heros like Spawn.

A good article, if arguably obvious. I think the main problem with the archetype is not the nature of the character, as ambiguity is the foundation for any good character writing, but, rather, certain characteristics, such as ruggedness, reluctance, and womanizing. Those are indeed overused.

For a good example of an anti-hero, I would refer you to Leon of Leon the Professional. First of all, he kills strangers for money, and is obviously as detached and professional about hits as he could realistically be. but the films steadily reveals certain traits of his that betray the idea of him being a cold-blooded killer. He cares about the girl, played by Natalie Portman, who lives next door to him, and he has standards for killing, that is, no children or women.

Han Solo, like so many of the Star Wars characters, are built on romanticized ideals. But archetypes can still ascribe to the general nature of the character while still maintaing creativity on how to approach whatever it is that makes the essence of the archetype.

Hans? Hans Solo?

alexlsurugby:
Well I would agree that the anti hero is getting over played, if it wasn't thousands of years old. It was a term first used in ancient Greek drama just like the Protagonist and Antagonist. It would be like arguing that books are getting predictable since they all have a build up and climax. Star Wars is actually an exact copy of the Arthurian legend or a basic Medieval quest. So I wouldn't argue that Han Solo is becoming stale, I would argue that authors and film makers are limited to what they can create because of the past archetypes. It's very rare to find something truly original because of thousands of years worth of literature before it. So while the anti hero is an old concept, Han Solo was actually a very nice spin on the old tale. He had no inner torment or shaded past like Batman, Spawn, or Euripides. He was just a guy trying to make a buck in a treacherous empire controlled world.

can you explain how star wars is a copy of the arthurian legend? I can accept maybe a small link, but an exact copy?

xmetatr0nx:
Well the anti-hero who is never quite bad enough is getting old. It seems those types of characters do just enough "bad" to qualify for the anti-hero label but everything else about them says good. Which is why i prefer anti heros like Spawn.

The Amoral-Badass is JUST as overused.

PedroSteckecilo:

xmetatr0nx:
Well the anti-hero who is never quite bad enough is getting old. It seems those types of characters do just enough "bad" to qualify for the anti-hero label but everything else about them says good. Which is why i prefer anti heros like Spawn.

The Amoral-Badass is JUST as overused.

Yea but i still fancy that guy over the indifferent badass with the heart of gold. Also Spawn would totaly kick Han Solos ass... Can you tell im not taking this debate very seriously?

xmetatr0nx:

PedroSteckecilo:

xmetatr0nx:
Well the anti-hero who is never quite bad enough is getting old. It seems those types of characters do just enough "bad" to qualify for the anti-hero label but everything else about them says good. Which is why i prefer anti heros like Spawn.

The Amoral-Badass is JUST as overused.

Yea but i still fancy that guy over the indifferent badass with the heart of gold. Also Spawn would totaly kick Han Solos ass... Can you tell im not taking this debate very seriously?

I suppose, I just really hate anything created by Todd Macfarlane.

PedroSteckecilo:

I suppose, I just really hate anything created by Todd Macfarlane.

Really? But hes so under used, at least Spawn is. Maybe cos im not up to date with the comic scene but for as cool looking of a character as he is, he seems to have been ignored ever since the movie attempt. Or is it that you just dislike Todd?

GonzoGamer:
I want that 5 mins of my life back.
There's a big difference between cliche and archetype.

I have some ideas if you guys are running out.

When a specific archetype (in this case, I believe Lovable Rogue fits the bill) becomes overused, however, it becomes stale. To the common man, something is cliched when it's overused to the point of being stale. We can agree that just about every modern adventure story has its Lovable Rogue; the writer was driving more at the fact that the archetype is being overused and is getting old.

Look at some popular games. Most of them have that Lovable Rogue somewhere in the game, especially in Western RPGs. In KOTOR2, you have Atton (He was a failed attempt at a Lovable Rogue, turned out to be more like an Affable Villain or an Anti-Hero, depending on whether you followed the Dark side or not), for example. I personally haven't played Mass Effect, but there is not a doubt in my mind that it has a Lovable Rogue somewhere in the story.

The truth is, the archetype is being overused and has become cliched. Just like the "Paragon of Virtue" cliche created, maintained, and symbolized by Superman. "Cliche" and "archetype" are not mutually exclusive, and it's simply foolish to think of them as such.

xmetatr0nx:

PedroSteckecilo:

I suppose, I just really hate anything created by Todd Macfarlane.

Really? But hes so under used, at least Spawn is. Maybe cos im not up to date with the comic scene but for as cool looking of a character as he is, he seems to have been ignored ever since the movie attempt. Or is it that you just dislike Todd?

I don't like Todd McFarlane because of his awful characters, Venom, Carnage, Spawn etc. Hate em' All.

Also how is the Spawn style of character under used? Kratos from God of War is VERY similar to Spawn. He has a damn similar back story, damn similar capabilities... all he's missing is the cape and the Christian Mythology.

PedroSteckecilo:

xmetatr0nx:

PedroSteckecilo:

I suppose, I just really hate anything created by Todd Macfarlane.

Really? But hes so under used, at least Spawn is. Maybe cos im not up to date with the comic scene but for as cool looking of a character as he is, he seems to have been ignored ever since the movie attempt. Or is it that you just dislike Todd?

I don't like Todd McFarlane because of his awful characters, Venom, Carnage, Spawn etc. Hate em' All.

Also how is the Spawn style of character under used? Kratos from God of War is VERY similar to Spawn. He has a damn similar back story, damn similar capabilities... all he's missing is the cape and the Christian Mythology.

Oh, he did some cool stuff with Batman. Not to mention the Spawn/Batman cross over, if i read comics id be on that. Also i meant more that Spawn was unused and ignored.

Flying-Emu:

for example. I personally haven't played Mass Effect, but there is not a doubt in my mind that it has a Lovable Rogue somewhere in the story.

Actually there isn't, suprisingly, unless that's how you decide to play the main character and even then you kind of need to work at it. The Morality system of Mass Effect is based more around the Dirty Harry vs. Captain America dynamic than good or evil.

I am of the opinion that a do gooder can still be done well and so can a anti-hero. Storywise, a character can be only a hero or an anti-hero. Otherwise he would jump to the other side, the villain side.

What Tom Endo is seeing is bad storytelling. If a character is gruff just for the sake of it, then, yes, the term 'emo' would suffice. (Prince of persia 2 I'm glaring at you). Han solo was a rather 'light' anti-hero. He didn't really harm others and his main fault was that he was lazy when it came to helping others. All he really did wrong was not be the goody two shoes.

There's still deeper to go, such as characters like Sherlock Holmes, who make you question the boundaries of morality (or Dr House from House MD, who is inspired by Holmes), a depth not really explored by star wars. Or hardly any game for that matter.

What would be nice for game developers that want to tell a story to do a little research into what makes a story good and hire writers with gaming experience.

The result will be a game that tells a story in a game way. It won't bring back mainstream adventure games (good riddance!), but it will bring back what we most enjoyed about adventure games: Witty writing and enjoyable stories.

Capo Taco:

There's still deeper to go, such as characters like Sherlock Holmes, who make you question the boundaries of morality (or Dr House from House MD, who is inspired by Holmes), a depth not really explored by star wars. Or hardly any game for that matter.

Except for the Sherlock Holmes games of course /wink

Unfortunately he is

Admiral Ackbar FTW

Flying-Emu:

GonzoGamer:
I want that 5 mins of my life back.
There's a big difference between cliche and archetype.

I have some ideas if you guys are running out.

When a specific archetype (in this case, I believe Lovable Rogue fits the bill) becomes overused, however, it becomes stale. To the common man, something is cliched when it's overused to the point of being stale. We can agree that just about every modern adventure story has its Lovable Rogue; the writer was driving more at the fact that the archetype is being overused and is getting old.

....

The truth is, the archetype is being overused and has become cliched. Just like the "Paragon of Virtue" cliche created, maintained, and symbolized by Superman. "Cliche" and "archetype" are not mutually exclusive, and it's simply foolish to think of them as such.

My point is that it's always been an overused because its a necessary archetype... usually. Since before Star Wars, since before Jane Austin, since even before Shakespeare. They all (over)used the "lovable rogue" archetype because it's a necessary character in most themes; of course how necessary depends on their ultimate function: sacrifice, reform, or just levity.

Krakyn:

Tom Endo thinks Admiral Ackbar is the next great sidekick.

It's a trap!

Dammit! Someone beat me to it.

GonzoGamer:

My point is that it's always been an overused because its a necessary archetype... usually. Since before Star Wars, since before Jane Austin, since even before Shakespeare. They all (over)used the "lovable rogue" archetype because it's a necessary character in most themes; of course how necessary depends on their ultimate function: sacrifice, reform, or just levity.

Can you name a few of that archetype from pre, oh, we'll go with pre-Industrial Revolution? I'm curious; I don't see many lovable rogues in Shakespearean-type work.

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