Silent Hill 2

 Pages 1 2 3 NEXT
 

Silent Hill 2

Yahtzee delivers unto us the four Commandments of cutscenes.

Read Full Article

One of the greatest writers of our generation. Love him or hate him, you can't deny Yahtzee is a wordsmith.

I agree with the fallout and oblivion thing. I love those games but when I am having a conversation with someone, I feel a little weirded out at times and I never make eye contact, I remember the first person you meet in silent hill 2. I was feeling creeped out by her.

Good stuff, I'm liking the "commandments" for storytelling a lot. It is really interesting seeing how, much like you said, developers have overlooked the overall sensational atmosphere set by SH2, Konami included. Maybe we should send each of them a copy of the game and force them to play it.

Reording Mocap and dialouge at the same time.

This isn't going to be possible with a lot of games. Just due to the way trying to schedule voice actors to come in and record lines. Any game that requires a localization, such as when they bring a JRPG to North America, requires dialouge replacement without changing the visuals.

Specifically with Fallout 3: You're right with regards to the fact that the way they just stand there is just creepy. To be honest, I preferred the BioWare approach where the dialouge scenes where shot isometrically whenre they were looking *directly* at you.

It's one thing where you're Disney where you have more money than God. But even with the Lotto-sized budget that most games possess getting someone like Liam Neeson or Patrick Stewart for an extended time is going to be expensive. That's why they're in the game for a whole five mintues before being written out.

Raithnor:

It's one thing where you're Disney where you have more money than God. But even with the Lotto-sized budget that most games possess getting someone like Liam Neeson or Patrick Stewart for an extended time is going to be expensive. That's why they're in the game for a whole five mintues before being written out.

Agreed, but to be fair Neeson is in for about 15 mins overall, if you don't skip the dialogue!

OT: Agreed, shame the developers don't take on board the advice ~ They claim to watch the series but don't learn from it!

I didn't sleep for a couple of days thanks to SH2 because of how utterly terrifying it was. I couldn't get the image of the nurses out of my head and kept seeing them at the foot of my bed D: I was 20 :|

Raithnor:
Any game that requires a localization, such as when they bring a JRPG to North America, requires dialouge replacement without changing the visuals.

This is true, but I don't think anyone's playing JRPGs for the immersion factor. The high points in that type of game are the story and the grab at the weaboo demographic with anime style artwork, effeminate male heroes and love interests that look 12 but the backstory tells you they've known the hero for 20 years.

Yahtzee seems to praise SH2 atmosphere a lot but one thing I learned in bioshock is that your personal life can affect how immersive a game is.

When I played Bioshock the first thing I noticed is that I share the main character's name. Ok, that's weird but then there is the fact that a lot of the characters remind me of family members in real life and the deeper a got into it the more connections I made. What's weirder is that I didn't draw these conclusions until after I beat the game and up until then the characters breathed a sense of eerie familiarity, like the game wanted to tell me something.

Yahtzee is there something your not telling us about Silent Hill 2 that reminds you of your personal life? Something that gave the game the extra mile with you?

lol at the lack of "firts" here, also this game is so fucking hard to get u.u

Great perspective of SH2's strengths as an atmospheric and immersive experience.

And yes I already saw those comments about adjusting The Conduit's controls. It doesn't matter how anyone tries to defend that beyond-mediocre FPS. Just like Yahtzee stated we shouldn't have to be forced to modify the controls to make the game slightly more playable, the game's controls should be fitting/usable by default!!! Even if the controls were acceptable it still doesn't improve everything else about that game that makes it so pathetically outdated when compared to every other FPS out there on other consoles.

I would like to hear your take on Silent Hill 1. You're video suggests you did not find the story for Silent Hill 1 that interesting, or at least the characters were boring for you. I've played both Silent Hill and Silent Hill 2, SH1 being the first one I played, and I find that I like SH1 better for its story, game play, and atmosphere.

SH1 was probably my first horror game, and its combination of stealth play, limited ammo, the snowing ash (which everybody calls fog), and what I termed the ElseWhere did very well to frighten me. Perhaps it was just because I was a younger then but when I played SH2 I was not actually ever scared by what was going on around me, I never felt frightened or confined or worried, except for perhaps about my health. The monsters, including Pyramid head, did not come off as scary, just a bit more gross. While I agree certain game play to story aspects of SH2 were improved (the "boss" fights in SH1 didn't make a lot of sense to me), I never found the characters I encountered engaging or really even connected to my plot line, which made their encounters feel pointless. While I get the theory that they're likely lost in their own little hell seeing things ever so slightly differently... I never get to see that, which makes it kinda dull? If the game play had switched between characters, or allowed me some more insight into the other character's worlds...

I understand that I am a minority to hold this opinion but most people whom I meet that feel that SH2 was better have never played SH1. Or perhaps they played SH2 first, then went back to 1 and found it a different style of story from their favorite and therefor didn't like it as much. (I suffer from this in my like of Final Fantasy 3(US) over Final Fantasy 2(US).) Anyway while we know your obvious biases, I'd still like to hear your review or opinions on SH1 separate from the rest of the supposed* slow decline of the SH series after 2.

*I say supposed as I have yet to complete any game past SH2 due to constraints on my free time and the sad death of my PS2, and have only heard that they are not as good. Again from the same people who liked SH2. Perhaps it is because they are more like SH1 than SH2?

Yahtzee Croshaw:
Extra Punctuation: Silent Hill 2

Yahtzee delivers unto us the four Commandments of cutscenes.

Read Full Article

Kind of expected something more along these lines with regard to "gaming commandments."

I feel like I must play Silent Hill 2 now

Gunner_Guardian:
Yahtzee is there something your not telling us about Silent Hill 2 that reminds you of your personal life? Something that gave the game the extra mile with you?

Yes. Yahtzee killed his wife and got an invitation to a creepy town in the middle of nowhere - the only difference being that he drove home and picked up a couple of hookers in his version, and so he finds himself mildly interested to find out what would have happened to him if he'd stayed.

But yeah. SH2 was an amazing game with a terrific atmosphere. Bioshock had an atmosphere... but I wouldn't necessarily call it terrific. It was kinda hollow, forced, steam punk/horror that left me with a funny taste in my mouth. It also felt like I was playing part of the Fallout universe, due to the similarities in dark humour and stuff.

SH2 never forced me to like the characters either, which in combination with its multipled endings, gave birth to the "whoever you don't give a shit about dies" multiple endings.

Well, good for me I just got my hands on Silent Hill 2 and am playing it as we speak. But he is right, we seem to have some blasphemers in the gaming industry. (Except for Final Fantasy, which I still like)

Silent Hill 2 handled the multiple endings with such subtle verve. These days games throw moral choice in your face like some decision pie.

Yahtzee, you adjective noun, isn't it time to update the ol' biog? As far as I can tell, you haven't written the back page column for PC Gamer for quite some time, now, whether they are too important to mention you or not.

I agree fully with his comandments.

One of these days I'm going to have to put my hatred of the controls aside and get back to that game.

I agree with the commandments but I perticually agree with the plot twist command, since sometimes I assume everyone who is friendly to me in a game might turn out to be evil eventually. It sorts of ruins the story on my part. Then again what would make a really good plot twist ofer than character A is acturally evil etc.

I know it doesn't constitute laziness, but when you look at a game as massive as Fallout 3 or Oblivion, with all the thousands upon thousands of lines of dialogue, you must admit that doing mocaps for each and every one of them would lengthen development time significantly. It's also very likely that many of the mocaps would be poor quality and just as hard to believe as none at all, and only doing mocaps for essential characters at essential times would give the impression of inconsistency. Though I do agree they could have made the ragdolls move a bit more.

My thought is that comparing the visual styles of two different games is like comparing the paintings of different artist. Silent Hill has a kind of 'tortured soul artist' feel to it, aka - outside the norm. Final Fantasy (I guess Gears of War... but I shudder to include them) have a different kind of style in that they try to just be pretty. And pretty, while some people think it is boring, is no less interesting or beautiful. I once went to a museum and saw a painting of a tiger. My fellow student saw it and said it was boring because the artist didn't experiment. He completely missed the fact that someone had taken colored goo and smeared it around onto a page in such a manner that it looked almost like a photograph of a tiger!

And yes, Pyramid Head is always a fanwank.

MAKE SOMETHING WITH THREE CHARACTERS AND TEN ROOMS AND SET IT IN 1930'S MOROCCO

Guess how half of the design contest games will look like.

Recording motion capture and voicework at the same time would be nice, but in a game with the amount of dialog that Fallout 3 or Oblivion has, it isn't terribly practical. A better solution for them would be to stop bloody zooming directly into their upper torso and having them stare straight at you during every conversation - if they had mixed it up with different camera angles and given the NPCs other animations beyond "perfectly rigid" while talking, it wouldn't matter that the uncanny valley was in effect with the lip-synching and facial animations. It only stands out so much because they aim a giant magnifying glass and a couple big neon signs saying "Look at how unnatural they are!" currently.

Of course you are going to run into problems of this nature whenever you have a silent protagonist, since they can't go with the more cinematic style of cutscenes like Mass Effect's as you are playing a mute who talks only through selecting menu items, and they can't take the approach of Half-Life as the conversation tree dialog system wouldn't make any sense when the other characters move about and interact without waiting for input from you.

The way Bioware has handled cutscenes with mute protagonists and dialog trees in Jade Empire and Kotor I'm recalling as being much less 'uncanny valley-tastic', so Bethsada might want to consider doing something similar in the future.

I don't understand what people expect from Oblivion and Fallout 3. I mean seriously, its not like these dialogues are planned like cutscenes. Creating a world that big and haveing so many character limits some shit. They couldn't create a cutscene for everyone who talks. I guess they could for "boss characters" and maine characters but those were done a little bit better anyways. Martin didn't feel stiff? Neither did the emperor? Or borius his bodygaurd

Man was it really necessary to come back and bash The Conduit a second time?

I think its an alright game myself.

Raithnor:
Reording Mocap and dialouge at the same time.

This isn't going to be possible with a lot of games. Just due to the way trying to schedule voice actors to come in and record lines. Any game that requires a localization, such as when they bring a JRPG to North America, requires dialouge replacement without changing the visuals.

It's not going to be possible very often at all.

The only reason they could do it in Silent Hill is because the voices in Silent Hill are all done by whoever they could find on the streets in Japan who happened to speak English, which is why they're even more awful than usual, since they are recorded primarily for people who aren't going to understand them or care about the niceties of the acting. (It's an odd design decision, but Silent Hill games in Japan have always had English voice acting and subtitles for their cutscenes).

More often though, you'll simply find that the person who actually does the voice looks bugger all like the character they're voicing, and so is simply not appropriate to get the mocap data from.

it seems like yahtzee cant take criticsm from anyone anytime at the end.

Bediz:

Raithnor:
Any game that requires a localization, such as when they bring a JRPG to North America, requires dialouge replacement without changing the visuals.

This is true, but I don't think anyone's playing JRPGs for the immersion factor. The high points in that type of game are the story and the grab at the weaboo demographic with anime style artwork, effeminate male heroes and love interests that look 12 but the backstory tells you they've known the hero for 20 years.

You don't even know. In Ar Tonelico one of the possible love interests "grows up," but just ends up looking like she changed clothes and put on platform shoes even though she's supposed to have gone through puberty.

hansari:

Yahtzee Croshaw:
Extra Punctuation: Silent Hill 2

Yahtzee delivers unto us the four Commandments of cutscenes.

Read Full Article

Kind of expected something more along these lines with regard to "gaming commandments."

that list is fucking stupid half of them contradict what i do like about a game

sean.2k9:
that list is fucking stupid half of them contradict what i do like about a game

Because everything you like in a game is by definition what everyone else believes is a "good" game...

You probably just skimmed the titles...

Ok, maybe I'm missing the point here. I mean, it's not like Yahtzee can't write. In fact, quite the opposite, his way with words leaves me in awe of him at times... But wasn't the whole point behind Zero Punctuation that the review was entirely contained within a video, for my ease and convenience. I love to read, but why the hell should I watch a ZP video, knowing that Yahtzee has had to hold back so he can also write another review, an extension if you will, just because (and here I'll admit I'm assuming... And we all know what that can do at times) The Escapist told him to. It just seems a little pointless to me.

RaiZ-R:
Ok, maybe I'm missing the point here. I mean, it's not like Yahtzee can't write. In fact, quite the opposite, his way with words leaves me in awe of him at times... But wasn't the whole point behind Zero Punctuation that the review was entirely contained within a video, for my ease and convenience. I love to read, but why the hell should I watch a ZP video, knowing that Yahtzee has had to hold back so he can also write another review, an extension if you will, just because (and here I'll admit I'm assuming... And we all know what that can do at times) The Escapist told him to. It just seems a little pointless to me.

You are correct, you're missing the point.

Yeah, that's one of the few things with Fallout and Oblivion that I disliked, the stone-faced NPcs focusing only on you with a gaze of pure focus and rock.

blacklab:
You are correct, you're missing the point.

Thanks for that. Do you troll here often?

Seriously though, what's the point in you posting that, and then not explaining the point that I seem to be missing? Hmmm... I get the feeling this may go on for quite a while.

 Pages 1 2 3 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here