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Editor-in-Chief  Posts: 2276 Joined: 1 May 2006     | |
Muckraker  Posts: 243 Joined: 15 Mar 2009     | Wow, you guys/gals worked pretty damn hard on this one. Talk about aggressive journalism... |
Anonymous Source  Posts: 8 Joined: 18 Aug 2009  | What an abysmal article. So much waffle to say so little. |
Pixel Thief  Posts: 429 Joined: 7 Jul 2008    | Worth a look: Chaos Edge, a blog dedicated to TL and his... ongoing efforts. http://chaosedge.wordpress.com/ Want to see Edge Studios? Behold: http://chaosedge.wordpress.com/2009/08/25/the-products-of-the-edge-empire/ (Scroll to the bottom.) A summary of a judgment against EDGE: As always, read carefully. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1769 Joined: 23 Apr 2009     | An interesting article, and I must commend you on your reporting on this issue.
No one forced you to read it, they did some hard reporting, and told the facts they uncovered. What more do you want? |
Pixel Thief Posts: 429 Joined: 7 Jul 2008 | One more: A history of his cases, and a few examples of what I believe are willfully fraudulent evidence: |
Muckraker  Posts: 316 Joined: 29 Jul 2009   | This is a really great article, and I was amazed by the level of work you all did to sort through all the information. I think Mobigames is fighting for the sake of fighting now. At first I had sided with them and thought that Edge was evil. After calming down and reading through the facts and talking to a lawyer friend. Edge was in the right to do what they did. Edge is fighting to protect their trademark. Now unless a lawsuit was actually filed saying that Mobigames owes monies based on previous sales, I think they should have just changed the name of their game and moved on. What does Mobigames stand to get if they keep fighting. Just some more free press that they were already getting for their solid game? |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1151 Joined: 7 Dec 2008    | This case is such a great drama, someone should make a T.V. show about it. I don't know if I trust either party, something stinks here. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 8 Joined: 18 Aug 2009 |
lol @ that Random internet users are running rings around this in terms of investigating Timmy. Follow Shamus's links to see what people have dug up. I had to wade through the turgid prose here to see what was new.. answer, not a lot. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 4 Joined: 18 Aug 2009 | Why would you consult copyright attorneys about a trademark dispute? You might as well have asked divorce attorneys or patent clerks. |
Anonymous Source  Posts: 9 Joined: 17 Aug 2009 |
I've been following this since May and I'm still yet to see an example of this trademark. (Post 1991) Anyone have any luck finding it? Maybe down the back of their chair? |
Muckraker Posts: 316 Joined: 29 Jul 2009 |
Oh I agree fully that they have not published anything in any realm of recent. That still doesn't change the fact that they own a trademark and that they did in fact use that trademark for its intended purpose. I am not saying I agree with what Edge Games is doing or did, I am just saying I understand. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 218 Joined: 16 Aug 2008    | Langdell is the worst kind of talentless hack, one who leeches on the hard work and goodwill of others. I think the contention of Mobigame that the mark is unsound is highly valid. Surely one must have a use in mind for a copyright, Langdell isn't creating anything, and by being based in the US surely he's fringing Fifth Amendment entitlements? TIGSource made infuriating reading, but thankyou for it Shamus, it's saddening to see how long such a crook has been operating. Can I ask where his doctorate is from? And in what field? I suppose this is the unfortunate reality of business... |
Anonymous Source Posts: 9 Joined: 17 Aug 2009 | Some of you might want to go back and read Edge Games public statement on this as it's quoted in the article. However the link to the article was removed a few days back. Maybe because someone had knowledge that this Escapist article was about to arrive. Fear not though, removing the link does nothing to the article itself and it can still be found: |
Anonymous Source Posts: 9 Joined: 17 Aug 2009 |
Certainly did, in the 80's and very early '90s the trademark was used as their business name, and anyone creating video games during that period and trying to call themselves The Edge would have indeed caused confusion. But there's no confusion here. We have a company that hasn't seen a title on the shelf since about 1991 and an iPhone game. I'm not confused? Anyone else? |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3004 Joined: 21 May 2009     | I'm on Mobi with this one just for the fact that it's a word and you should not be able to own a word. Very good article:) |
Anonymous Source Posts: 6 Joined: 19 Jun 2007 |
As much as I despise Mr. Langdell's business tactics, trademark specifically allows owning a "word" (by which I assume you mean a common dictionary word) in specific contexts and when associated with specific products. Whether we like it or not, and whether it was improper or not, Edge was awarded the trademark in the context of video games. Like many trademark and patent disputes, the real question is whether the trademark should have been granted in the first place, and if the party owning the trademark has been actively *using* it (trademarks are "use 'em or lose 'em" protections). I personally don't see that Langdell has been actively using the trademark for any purpose other than to license the mark to others -- which, while I'm not a lawyer, I feel confident goes against at least the spirit of the law if not the letter. The larger issue, and ultimately the most significant one, is that Mr. Langdell has clearly practiced a predatory business around this trademark and *still* was able to become a board member of the IGDA. It speaks poorly of the IGDA's executive leadership *and* of its members (and their apparent apathy toward the operations of their due-supported organization). |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 80 Joined: 16 Jun 2009     | The article asks why Mobigames is battling it? Should not all men oppose tyrany? I say more power to them. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 8 Joined: 21 Feb 2008 | "...but in the absence of any further evidence contradicting our initial conclusions..." You are joking, right? "But if that's so, then why is Mobigame fighting? The answer to that is that they believe they've been treated unfairly. Whether or not that's a sufficient legal basis for their arguments, it's at least understandable." This whole paragraph is condescending and disingenuous beyond belief. Please, just admit that you were wrong initially and are falling ever further behind in your attempts to equivocate on this matter. Your attempts at damage limitation are as embarrassingly out of step with the community as your non-Zero Punctuation video programming. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 7 Joined: 18 Aug 2009  | How, given the evidence produced and the evidence displayed in the article you can feel comfortable writing that last paragraph in that article is utterly beyond me. Boggling idiocy of the first order. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 5 Joined: 18 Aug 2009 |
Tim Langdell in 'hiding the facts to make his position look better' shocker!
Tim Langdell in 'flat-out lying to make his position look better' shocker! Seriously guys, good work on taking this long to figure out what everyone else already knew, and for wording this article in such a way as to imply 'we weren't wrong, we were just misinformed'. That misinformation goes as far as two outright lies that would surely affect proceedings in a court of law. Like many others above, I'm slightly incredulous that you're still standing by your original stance. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 453 Joined: 22 Apr 2009   | Sigh. Just shows what happens when you let the government intervene in markets. Without state inducted "trademarks" then Mobigame could publish their work and Edge games could actually try and do somethig productive. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 7 Joined: 17 Aug 2009    |
Best be trolling. Trademarks are not a "state inducted" anything. They are a judicial measure which are demanded by businesses. They serve two extremely useful functions; protecting a businesses identity and reputation, and allowing customers to make informed choices on purchasing (see: the economic/game theory concept of "peaches and lemons"). Unlike other forms of IP, they have no chilling effect; you can evade a trademark simply by naming your brand/product something else (and, if you're smart, not telling the competition in advance so they trademark that as well). |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 780 Joined: 7 Jun 2008    | Well, I'm thoroughly confused. I was pretty confident The Escapist was going with their seemingly regular move to side with the larger (or possibly more industry-connected) group (I'll bet they get some pretty sweet access to new games from it). But after reading this article, well, I still feel that way, only now they've got a caveat that the other side might have some credence. I sort of think the trouble here is that the crux of this whole "Is Langdell right?" part is you're actively waiting for Langdell to prove himself right or wrong. That's not how this stuff works. You can't ask people "Are you lying?" and expect them to go "Yes, sorry 'bout that." But here you're offering up to them information which directly contradicts their story and they're not even bothering to deny contradictory evidence. They're declining to comment. Imagine if I said "I think The Escapist is a bunch of EA employees." I'm sure I'd get a bunch of evidence that directly contradicts this (like confirmed work histories). But you got nadda out of them. Hrm. That makes me suspicious. I think it makes you that too, but you just don't want to say it outright. You'll let the article's subtext do that for you, and then that way you won't have to say "We wrote a follow up that expressed support for Mobigame" if Edge Games wins the case. Because you didn't. No one could accuse you of writing that article. But I can accuse you of hedging your bets like it's your last ten dollars in your wallet and you really don't want to be the first guy out at the poker table. Lastly, I "like" how The Escapist has become a character in this story. It's certainly a story about Edge Games versus Mobigame, but there's that subtle context that says "and we're so important that they actually started coming to us! Isn't that sweet? Look how cool we are!" Kudos to you. But, frankly, that's kinda amateurish. I mean, sure, TIME Magazine does it, but they're not actually a high quality magazine anymore (in the years I've read it, it's steadily declined in depth and quality, but the number of dickwaiving articles has skyrocketed. You can't go two paragraphs in a cover article without finding "As TIME reported in..."). You're better than that, The Escapist. You're fresh and new, and you don't have to resort to this. You can just tell us what Mobigame said. You don't have to add "to us." We know it's to you. You're reporting it after all. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 171 Joined: 22 Dec 2008   | do you know why Mobigame is fighting so hard, because they feel wronged and are french. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 792 Joined: 13 Feb 2009   | I think some of those documents are fabricated after the fact. Edge seems like the kind-of company to be the prick about this... Even if they are the technical "victim" its like the man who jumps behind a car in a parking lot to get hit so he can sue and make money off of it. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 476 Joined: 25 Apr 2009  | Interesting read and interesting situation. I absolutely hate the whole court whatnot of meticulous paperwork and making sure you didnt say something stupid that would ruin your whole case. Must say though you guys really did a good job of explaining all the work that goes into being a journalist and at the same time making a fantastic article! |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 539 Joined: 12 Mar 2008   | One thing people on teh internets need to learn is that cease&desist letters and "aggressively worded emails" are essentially wastepaper (or wastebytes if you prefer) and can be safely disregarded. Until a court officer shows up at your house with papers, it's all just BS and posturing. Mobigames have refused to let some Grade A Douche like Tim Langdell threaten them with this nonsense, and they are better for it. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 443 Joined: 26 Sep 2008    |
I gotta admit, when I read the article from a couple weeks ago, I thought you'd jumped the gun in demonizing Edge Games and Tim Langdell, but reading those links really puts him back under that light. I will say though, I don't really speak legal, so what is it that we're looking for in that third link? |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1649 Joined: 10 Sep 2008  |
Well, if it's a big company with money and resources to spare, the C%D is a way for them to not uwaste money on legal procedings while still showing that they are aware of what is going on. When it comes from a big company, it's usually them just being "nice" about telling you to stop. Everybody seems so mad about The Escapist being slghtly late with the news and taking a stance that they disagree with. This shit takes time, and just because you don'r agree with the article doesn't meant it's crap. Goos job Russ, it's good to see that you all are working hard. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 92 Joined: 20 Dec 2007   |
Ooooh, that's... that's going to take some time to read through. But I'll do my best, yessir! After reading some of the more informative comments on the linked articles I'm inclined to think that The Escapist should have spent more time with intellectual property law research before saying something like: The amount and extent of Langdell-spun misinformation is truly terrifying, but it seem that there could be some mechanisms within the trademark law that can be used against him (find "Alex Whiteside" in the comments) if some of Langdell's most suspicious trademark manipulations are brought to light (basically everything in the link that Shamus provided ). Mind that I haven't done any personal research on this topic, just starting to read those articles and what I really wanted to say: Well I don't know... But "A copyright attorney we reached" definitely won't cut it for "legal experts", that's wilding as much authority as the guy I've refereed to in the first link above. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1404 Joined: 26 Jan 2009  |
tell that to Paris Hilton, she got the word "hot" copyrighted. this is stupid really, without anything to trademark or copyright, shouldn't the word default on said copyright/trademark? If other media and works return to the public domain, like some books in the next decade [e.g. very VERY bad movie iterations]? I think Edge games needs to let go of the '90s, nothing good came from that period in time. |
Copy Clerk Posts: 51 Joined: 8 Mar 2007 | Thanks to the Escapist staff for digging a little deeper into this issue. The more I hear about it, the worse it seems to get. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 7 Joined: 18 Aug 2009 |
I think you misunderstand. I -never- have a problem with articles I merely disagree with. Articles that are misleading, dubious in their claims (see repeated "Langdell has a case" when that's severely in doubt right now) and either ill researched or willingly ignoring any evidence to support a bizarrely contrary opinion - then I have a problem y'know? Especially when it's over something as important as this case is. It might be a few hits to The Escapist, or a drama elsewhere for some of the readership but it -is- important because it might be you or someone else equally undeserving in this position next time Langdell or similar goes on a super happy trademark funtime assault. Seriously, before you go claiming it's "just a disagreement" with The Escapist's stance - check the evidence, please. Read Shamus' links, read the TIGS thread, read Chaos Edge then tell me, hand on heart that The Escapist are absolutely, utterly and totally right to claim that Langdell has a case and that Mobigame are merely aggrieved and feeling picked on. The man has produced nothing in 15 years. Almost everything he lays claim to is in doubt from the -actual- IP holders. You cannot possibly say with any conviction that he definitely has a case, yet The Escapist persist. Why? Hits? Stupidity? Naivety? I don't know, but it's ridiculous the conclusions drawn from the evidence. This article is so far from "a good job" that it really beggars belief. The second consecutive article on the subject to ignore any evidence is not in any way, shape or form a good job. To have evidence presented to you pointing to the contrary then to effectively ignore the evidence in the final paragraph for no obvious reason is not a good job. It's disgraceful journalism. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1434 Joined: 4 Feb 2009  |
Well that was eye opening. Does this guy do anything for a living except sponge off other developers? Have I misread the judgement on edge vs souledge? It found no case to answer for Namco, so why did they switch to Soulcalibur? |
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Edge or Edgy: Part Two
New information shines some light on just why Mobigame is putting up such a fight over the Edge trademark.
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