Max Payne 3: No Payne, No Gain

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Max Payne 3: No Payne, No Gain

When is a sequel not a sequel?

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I couldn't agree more, mate. This simply, from everything we've seen so far, is not Max Payne. And while I'm happy that Remedy has decided to set their focus on Alan Wake, which I strongly anticipate, I wish that they had either kept the license for future use with what they've learned from Alan Wake, and made MP3 later on.

This feels like Michael Bay stepping in and re-directing the Lord of the Rings. Wrong much?

this game doesn't sound so good

Max's old voice is gone and he looks way too different

I lost any excitement for this game after reading this article

A few things, either they are trying to cash in on Max Payne being a memorable name that everbody knows, or they are trying to expand as much as they can on the series. Rockstar is pretty good with messed up stories so who better than Max Payne. I have the feeling they will do pretty good and they have so much room for an entirely new story and characters, seeing how most of the fanbase was back in the day so it will appeal to an entirely new generation of fanbase.

Alright! Finally a game where I can play as Carl from Aqua Teen Hunger Force.

This does seem like a strange thing to do with the franchise. However if they somehow tie in the old Max Payne story into the narrative it could be interesting. Feels weird but I guess we'll have to wait and see with this one.

Picture a sponge with half an atom of water left in it. Picture 15 guys in suits squeezing that sponge till the veins bulge in their temples.

Welcome to gaming sequel mentality.

When I read this article, I cried. The tears ran down my face like the gutters of New York in winter, fresh with the blood of fallen angels. My depression had become a metaphor for the sick degradation of the franchise. I lit another cigarette and loaded my 9mm.

You have to hit rock bottom before you can climb your way out.

I bet the 3rd in the series is about the redemption of Payne, through the course of the game you have to get max out of the dumps and work him back in to a usable member of society. Losing the weight could be handled like the exercising mini games of GTA:SA. It's also set in Brazil because they needed a reason to have gratuitous shots of tanned girls in thong bikinis.

Razorback0z:
Picture a sponge with half an atom of water left in it. Picture 15 guys in suits squeezing that sponge till the veins bulge in their temples.

You can't have half an atom, that would cause an atomic explosion, silly!

While this doesn't sound like a Max Payne game should... it's still Rockstar; they're good at games! In theory, this should still be a decent game...

Right?

Nitpicker of the Wastes:

While this doesn't sound like a Max Payne game should... it's still Rockstar; they're good at games! In theory, this should still be a decent game...

Right?

I don't think he is making the point that the game is going to be bad per say, but that it's only a Max Payne game to try and cash in a little on the name.

Ugh, why would anyone want to continue this series? The gameplay was solid fun but the real heart of it was the story. And pretty much every single thread of plot was tied up in the second game. If they had to, couldn't they have made a spritual sequel instead?

I'm gonna consider this one non-canon off the bat.

You hit the nail on the head.

Maybe Rockstar wants to purge all the Max Payne fans so they will never be interested in the game again, something I thought the movie took care of quite well.

And not bringing James McCaffrey back as the voice of Max Payne must surely be seen as blasphemous and unforgivable.

Malygris:
But it seems to me that if we've reached the point at which sequels are being made for no better reason than because it's easier than trying to convince people to throw their money at a new and unknown IP, then we have a rather serious creativity crisis on our hands.

True, but the blame doesn't lie wholy with the publishers who prefer sequels and only new IPs if a trilogy is preplanned; the fact is customers have been shown to be somewhat hard to motivate to buy new IPs; we all know the story of Pyschonauts, after all. Partly, its a cost issue on the developers half, and partly is an issue of fear/suspecion/bloody mindedness on the customers half. Hence, yeah, sequels are easier (i.e. cheaper) and as such they are less risky to publishers. As such, publishers are more likely to go for developers who go for sequels.

Fortunately, things do seem to be slowly turning around. Brutal Legend, and Dragon Age are the latest new IPs to come about, and hopefully they'll be as successful as they look like they are going to be.

Hmmm...

I've just had a thought; With movies, good actors often mean a movie can pull a large crowd because if nothing else, that actor should be good. With games, 'actors' only do the voices, and as such there is little in the way to visually link the same actor between 2 IPs; hence sequels mean an actor can be reused to the best effect. I only really noticed this when I thought about Jack Black who, right or wrong, is a well know celebrately when it comes to movies about music, and had that band for awhile. And when we look at Brutal Legend, we see the main character is practically Jack Black in a game.

When its being reamped after its good turnout.

Sequels are easier? That isn't much of a revelation. That's why we have Street Fighter 4 (with an update coming later on), Tekken 6 and Virtua Fighter 5 yet BlazBlue is having a tough time getting recognition.

It's why we get sequels and remakes to games only us youth of the 1980s will even remember and care about playing such as Bionic Commando and Rygar (even though God of War sort of stole Rygar's thunder as well as his chief method of attack).

Rockstar should probably stay out of the direct sequel biz and go back to the non-sequential form sequels they know fairly well. Then again, this could give them some much needed practice in that area. That won't comfort diehard Max Payne fans much, we can be pretty certain of that.

The first time I saw Max's new look I instantly stopped caring about the series...

I'll stick with the first two games if you don't mind...

Malygris:
When is a sequel not a sequel?

Slycne:
I don't think he is making the point that the game is going to be bad per say, but that it's only a Max Payne game to try and cash in a little on the name.

Ain't that the sad truth...

Personally...I wish Max Payne would have gone down quietly with the other greats...instead, he is gonna be milked for all he is worth.

(and it will work...I am too big of a fan of our gloomy cop/narrator to let this go unplayed...)

image

The article pretty much summed up how I felt, and I wasn't even a big Max Payne fan back then.

Jon Etheridge:
Alright! Finally a game where I can play as Carl from Aqua Teen Hunger Force.

Congratulations sir, you made me laugh and choke on my drink.

You know, I have nothing against the new look of Max Payne. I have nothing against the game moving to a new location. I have nothing against the thought of someone who went through what Max Payne went through ending up in a similar situation, though generally less blood soaked.

The problem I have is that at the end of Max Payne 2, both the "normal" and the "good" ending, its quite heavily implied that Max is going to be okay. He's settled his scores, killed his demons, and blown away his tormentors both physical and emotional.

"I had a dream of my wife. She was dead, but it was okay."

That's not the thought of a man who is going to become an alcoholic, get addicted to pain killers, and go bald and muscle bound.

So normally when sequels pop up we here cries of "milking", "beating a dead horse", and "same ole crap, different year", but when someone truly tries to make a sequel different and evolve a stagnant, aging franchise it's all of a sudden "too different" and "not Max Payne enough"...give me a break.

You know what makes a Max Payne game? The story and narration. Seeing as how we know next to nothing about either one of those right now it's far too early to go around crying about how the game is soooo different.

The more I read up on this game, the more my spirit spirals into the dirt like a WWII bomber with 1 engine....

I was actually quite literally just playing Max Payne 2 recently wondering if anyone could come up with a good way to segue into a new game...

I'm sad the answer so far is "No, probably not."

Malygris:
Max Payne 3: No Payne, No Gain

When is a sequel not a sequel?

Read Full Article

Im sorry but i screamed bullshit when i first saw the new pics for Max Payne 3, Max payne 2 was considered one of the greatest sequels ever made for a videogame, i can understand the pill addiction and the depression getting to him but Brazil, come on guys, did you really want to compete with Drake's uncharted 2, THAT BADLY o.o?

Bigeyez:
So normally when sequels pop up we here cries of "milking", "beating a dead horse", and "same ole crap, different year", but when someone truly tries to make a sequel different and evolve a stagnant, aging franchise it's all of a sudden "too different" and "not Max Payne enough"...give me a break.

You know what makes a Max Payne game? The story and narration. Seeing as how we know next to nothing about either one of those right now it's far too early to go around crying about how the game is soooo different.

You know what made Max Payne unmistakably Max Payne? The atmosphere and the likable protagonist. It's one thing to make too many sequels of a game and drive a franchise into the ground, but to make something that doesn't even resemble a franchise and call it a sequel is a sin on a worse level.

Imagine Nintendo revealing a Mario game starring a character resembling Bruce Willis taking place in ancient China. Would this make sense? Of course not. It might even play like a proper Mario game, but it would feel wrong. The magic is lost.
There should at least be some feeling of familiarity with a sequel, otherwise it simply wouldn't count as one. It might be one of the most amazing gaming experiences, but it wouldn't be a Mario game.
To make matters worse, if this new style of Mario would get any popularity, any chance of bringing back the Mario people grew attached to over the years will be lost forever.

That is the feeling a lot of people had with Max. Sure, it's not as known a franchise as Mario, but it is a character we felt like we experienced quite a bit with. To see a different developer do whatever he likes with it has killed off our old Max. Chances are we are not going to see him again.

I'll give the game a chance, but the entire time playing I'll see him as Carl from the Aqua Teens. Not as Max.

AboveUp:

Bigeyez:
So normally when sequels pop up we here cries of "milking", "beating a dead horse", and "same ole crap, different year", but when someone truly tries to make a sequel different and evolve a stagnant, aging franchise it's all of a sudden "too different" and "not Max Payne enough"...give me a break.

You know what makes a Max Payne game? The story and narration. Seeing as how we know next to nothing about either one of those right now it's far too early to go around crying about how the game is soooo different.

You know what made Max Payne unmistakably Max Payne? The atmosphere and the likable protagonist. It's one thing to make too many sequels of a game and drive a franchise into the ground, but to make something that doesn't even resemble a franchise and call it a sequel is a sin on a worse level.

Imagine Nintendo revealing a Mario game starring a character a main resembling Bruce Willis taking place in ancient China. Would this make sense? Of course not. It might even play like a proper Mario game, but it would feel wrong. The magic is lost.
There should at least be some feeling of familiarity with a sequel, otherwise it simply wouldn't count as one. It might be one of the most amazing gaming experiences, but it wouldn't be a Mario game.
To make matters worse, if this new style of Mario would get any popularity, any chance of bringing back the Mario people grew attached to over the years will be lost forever.

That is the feeling a lot of people had with Max. Sure, it's not as known a franchise as Mario, but it is a character we felt like we experienced quite a bit with. To see a different developer do whatever he likes with it has killed off our old Max. Chances are we are not going to see him again.

I'll give the game a chance, but the entire time playing I'll see him as Carl from the Aqua Teens. Not as Max.

But thats just it. People are making all these assumptions based off of a handful of screen shots...the game doesn't have to be set in the exact same place to retain a similar feeling.

Sure once we get more info and the game comes out, go ahead and crucify it if it really ends up being "Generic Shooter 3" but until then I say people need to just calm down.

On a seperate note, I personally think the noir setting wasn't the end all be all of the past two games but thats really a matter of personal opinion; I know most people loved the whole noir theme they had.

This made me want to go back and replay Max Payne 2 with it's awesome mods.

I'm still excited, if nothing else it's not going in the generic direction. It's setting is a Central American slum for god sakes, when was the last time mass media visited that place? The Hulk, Anthony Bourdains No Reservations.. thats about it.

Everyone has different things they're passionate about, sometimes to a fault, so I won't mock your beliefs. I will say I disagree with them, and I think we can both agree we'd like it if you weren't right about MP3. So, you can be the pessimist, I can be the optimist, and one of us will be dissapointed and....well, if it sucks we'll both be dissapointed.

I guess what i'm trying to say is, agree to disagree. I still think it will be awesome.

TsunamiWombat:
This made me want to go back and replay Max Payne 2 with it's awesome mods.

I'm still excited, if nothing else it's not going in the generic direction. It's setting is a Central American slum for god sakes, when was the last time mass media visited that place? The Hulk, Anthony Bourdains No Reservations.. thats about it.

Everyone has different things they're passionate about, sometimes to a fault, so I won't mock your beliefs. I will say I disagree with them, and I think we can both agree we'd like it if you weren't right about MP3. So, you can be the pessimist, I can be the optimist, and one of us will be dissapointed and....well, if it sucks we'll both be dissapointed.

I guess what i'm trying to say is, agree to disagree. I still think it will be awesome.

Brazil... Central America? SOMEONE IS WRONG... ON THE INTERNETZ!

Personally, I'm going to get MP3 the day it comes out, but won't have my hopes up too high. The gameplay mechanics they described sound fascinating, and I'd quite like for them to prove to people that noir doesn't mean "New York City at night"

It seems incredibly plausible to me. So you are a lean cop with a common enough hair-cut, in a short period of time you kill a great number of people. The smartest thing to do would be to get out, go to a close foreign country, loose the hair, grow a beard and put on some weight. Behold the new Max Payne.

Noir in Brazil? Knowing just a few things about Brazil I think it can be done.

I'm skeptical as well of this new Max Payne. I've only played Max Payne 2, but I'll admit it's one of the best video games I've ever played in terms of immersion, story elements, drama, that noir feel -- Hell everything was perfect.

The biggest thing for me is the change in voice actor....I'm not saying the new guy will suck, he'll probably do a great job, but it won't be the Max Payne I know. I can freaking hear Max Payne from FoMP in my head right now with his grim analogies and depressing quotes!! "I had a dream, in it my wife was still dead, but everything was alright" ---- Freaking classic.

I say old chap:
It seems incredibly plausible to me. So you are a lean cop with a common enough hair-cut, in a short period of time you kill a great number of people. The smartest thing to do would be to get out, go to a close foreign country, loose the hair, grow a beard and put on some weight. Behold the new Max Payne.

Noir in Brazil? Knowing just a few things about Brazil I think it can be done.

Except that is not what has happened. Max is an alcoholic, addicted to painkillers, and working for "private security" (one that allows alcholic drug addicts, apparently) in Brazil. And like I said above, given the ending to the second game, quite a wierd thing to happen.

That said, I'll expand and say I doubt the atmosphere will suffer from being in a Brazillian slum, as those places are absolutely brutal. They're probably about as "Urban" as you can get.

I got no problems with the setting, its Max himself that bothers me. First impressions, obviously, but it looks like we're just going to get another jaded, muscle-bound badass in Max Payne 3.

Aqualung:
I couldn't agree more, mate. This simply, from everything we've seen so far, is not Max Payne. And while I'm happy that Remedy has decided to set their focus on Alan Wake, which I strongly anticipate, I wish that they had either kept the license for future use with what they've learned from Alan Wake, and made MP3 later on.

This feels like Michael Bay stepping in and re-directing the Lord of the Rings. Wrong much?

Unfortunately, they needed the money to make Alan Wake, so they had to sell MP if they would've wanted to carry on in their carreer.

I'm Finnish and I think that Max Payne is in a way a national treasure. And from my point of view some douchebag is shitting on that national treasure. Seriously. Max Payne. Southern America. Different actor. NO.

Well yeah, the game might be good. I might actually try it out if it was called say Johnny Agony or something like that.

Bigeyez:
So normally when sequels pop up we here cries of "milking", "beating a dead horse", and "same ole crap, different year", but when someone truly tries to make a sequel different and evolve a stagnant, aging franchise it's all of a sudden "too different" and "not Max Payne enough"...give me a break.

You know what makes a Max Payne game? The story and narration. Seeing as how we know next to nothing about either one of those right now it's far too early to go around crying about how the game is soooo different.

People say this all the time, but why do we always have to land on extremes?

"If we don't drastically change a game to where it isn't even recognizable as a part of the series, WE WILL BE IN STAGNATION!"

There's obviously a middle ground, and successful sequels that don't feel tenuously tied to the rest of the series fall right on it.

-but whatever, this is Andy simply expressing his concern, and trying to bring up a point about how obsessed we are with "sequelization".

I'm excited to give this game a chance. Think about it: if we assume that it's going to have the narrative strength that the name implies, then how awesome could it be to see this character taken in a ballsy direction? Has any other game tried to make such dramatic changes to a character?

That said, it could be a complete disaster just as easily, but I'm hoping for the best.

it's stupid idea to use the same protagonist and title for extremely different game, they might as well name it "Max Payne's brother" and stop being delusional about this being MP.

Is the problem that most people have the muscles, the wife-beater, his alcoholism, the beard or the hair-cut?

There is seeming to be resistance because of the new look of Payne. I am wondering how many years after the first one it is. If he has been living off unhealthy Brazilian food and beer for some years it explains the gut.

This reminded me of an upcoming title (MP3 - HAH!), that I had forgotten about for the same reasons - outlined in the article - that I will now forget about it again...

I trust Rockstar to make good games, and maybe this new Max will be cleverly segued into and maturely handled. If he just grumbles and rests on his laurels though, that's what'd be dissappointing.

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