Jaqen Hghar:
I loved Brutal Legend. One of the best games this year. My only gripe with it is that the main story is a bit to short, and you have no way of seeing the cinematics over again.

A bit sad to see that people worship Yahtzees words, which in turn makes them pass over great games which he didn't like. These "reviews" are fun and all, but hardly proper reviews. Oh well, sucks for you worshipers I guess.
*dreams himself off to the Age of Metal*

Thank God man, I thought I was the only one who saw the development of a Yahtzee-worshiping cult. I hope it doesn't take a degree in Sociology or Religious History to see the Protestant Reformation parallel of it all.

It's one of my favorite games of all time, of course, thats along with games like Mirror's Edge, Mass Effect, and the Total War series*, so I'm pretty much an infidel to the Yahtzee-faithful.

*I recognize there hasn't been any offical dogma official denouncing the Total War series or the RTS genre in general, but if you've seen some of the forum chatter since Halo Wars and Darkest of Days, some elements of the RTS community fear that we may end up as the next scapegoat to be burned at the stake by these Gaming Zealots. If that day comes, I shall join you in Ironheade, as fighting a war against Trolls and Gaming Zealots is a lost cause.

swaki:

and i have a hard time seeing the resembles between tim and jack, they look alike in the pictures you choose but in all the others pictures and clips ive seen they look nothing alike, also theres a video of them together on double fines site.

...I'm not sure if this counts as observance, or lack of it...?

A disappointing review for sure. I'll still pick up the game eventually as I'd like to encourage Schafer to continue making games, and I'm sure there's enough of a good game buried in there to overlook the RTS stuff, but still.

Did anyone catch the umlaut he didn't pronounce?

It's at 2:29.

What do I win? :D

The RTS aspect could have worked if they gave you the ability to pause the action and organize your troops, for the single player at least.

I also don't think there is anything wrong with sandbox games just as there isn't anything wrong with linear games, so long as the former gives you plenty to do and a fairly easy means to get around.

I personally like the game, however, I am not blind to the issues of it. I guess you really have to be a metal head like myself to get the most out of it. For what it's worth though this game did make me feel a bit worse about never buying Psychonauts, though I did try to get it on Steam but the damn thing won't work.

I agree though the demo is a bit deceptive.

Akalabeth:

So what, Yahtzee's review is invalidated by the format rather than the message? If he wrote his opinion as a series of paragraphs and gave scores for gameplay and graphics it would somehow become more valid? All reviews are simply opinions, and some people who have responded in this thread share his opinion. Just because your opinion is different doesn't invalidate Yahtzee's.

Of course not. But the amount of people thinking "Oh, he doesn't like it. Guess I won't buy it then" is quite big. When you should at least read around some more. There are also several things in the video which was plain silly. Cannot find Motor Forges? Seriously? If you cannot see the top of them surrounded by the red flowers you are told grows near things you can raise... then you just don't read the manual or in-game help enough. The thing about RTS is also quite funny. When he asks his "friend" if it is good RTS... the whole "amass a big army and throw them at the enemy" is the way you are supposed to play it. And because that is what you do in the RTS segments, this is not a good game?

The only thing I think is wrong is calling these videos proper reviews. 'cause they are more a rant about every little thing which irks Mr. Croshaw about the game. Even when he talks about games he love he manages to get the "this sucks" vibe out there. Hey, I love these videos as much as everyone else here. I just think it is wrong calling them reviews. Rants is more like it.

Highlandheadbanger:
This is more a rant about Yahtzee-fanboyism then the man's condemnation of today's game:

I'm sorry he didn't like the game, but frankly, I don't give a toss what Yahtzee has to say when it comes to buying a game. I loved Mirror's Edge, Halo 3, Call of Juarez, Mass Effect, Oblivion, and Brutal Legend. I may take a grain of salt from Game Informer or the like, but really I only go to Yahtzee for the entertainment value. Yahtzee ripped into pretty much all these games, but I still had tons of fun with them, some of which are my favorite games of all time (Brutal Legend featured prominently as one of the frontrunners).

I'm a bit disappointed seeing all the comments with people deciding not to try the game at all because Yahtzee said so, thats the exact kind of thing the man talked about in past reviews before: silly cultish little people who wait for their Oracle's guiding word in any of their gaming preferences. In a seemingly incredible, but not so predictable turn of events for anyone with a basic knowledge of Religious History and/or Human Sociological tendencies,
Yahtzee has convinced a population of console fanboys to throw off the chains of their oppresive dogmatic religion, only for them to convert and worship his word in some sort of bastard microcosm of the Protestant Reformation.

I of course don't speak ill of those who tried the game, didn't like it, and then causually posted about it. I merely refer to the unpleasent growing trend I've started to see of people blindly following Yahtzee's word, not just in forums, but talking to some in person. So much so that I was relieved after Yahtzee admitted he didn't really have a taste for the RTS genre (a favorite of mine) and refer to someone else's respected opinion, rather then the somewhat expected over-the-top condemnation several like-minded fellows concerned themselves with a few weeks ago when they sent an email to Yahtzee, asking for the official dogma of the "Church of Ramblomatic" concerning RTSs', which I begged my RTS faithful not to do, since I refused to have my beloved Total War franchise burned at the stake by ignorant Yahtzee faithful who, on forums and in direct contact in the real world, wholely denounce Mass Effect, Mirror's Edge, and [now] Brutal Legend without ever having played any of them.

My thoughts exactly.
EDIT: Posted this before I saw your comment quoting me :P
But yeah, I love a lot of the games Mr. Croshaw has stomped all over. But then again, I really dislike a lot of the games he dislikes :P And I love the Theif series, which is one of the few games he really likes.
RTS is awesome, and I should really get into Total War again.
And while the RTS in Brutal Legend isn't so in depth as proper RTS games, it sure is fun! IRONHEADE!

BL didn't have enough Lemmy parts. It was like, 'Yeah man I'm fuckin awesome look at me heal' and then he has about 2 more lines in the entire game. Ozzy was the same screaming profanities at Jack. ( I will not call him Eddie, because it is fecking Jack Black)
The combos with your teammates in the RTS is pretty funky like combining with the Sound Guy to become invisible, or with the other NPC's for different abilities.
Also the combat lacked alot of combos for jack himself, I think I counted around 6 different combos including mash X, Mashing Square, holding X, Holding Square each with their own piss weak damage that couldn't be upgraded to anything more than a accidental wet fart, likewise the weapons were only like 8 choices and 4 weapons for the Deuce.

I'm amazed people take Yahtzee seriously as a reviewer, his views on a game mean even less to me than the so-called "professionals" at IGN and the like.

The reason for this is he's a comedian; a damn good one at that. I laugh my ass off even when he's blasting one of my favorite games.

After reading the posts here, I feel I fit into the minority of people who like Jack Black, Metal, RTSs, and don't mind a heavy-handed mix of all three in the same game. Listening to Dragonforce while driving around a crumbling castle and being assaulted by unmentionable evil is fucking awesome...but it's a niche. I get it. So what?

Lately I've just been setting the game up to sit there and play music, which I suppose isn't much of recommendation, but then again, when you do play, you get a guitar that rains lightning from the sky. I defy any of you to top that!

Note: Painkiller, gun that shoots shurikens and lightning, I remember...

Dectilon:

I do agree with most of the review still. Finding the motor forges is easy since they're all surrounded by red flowers visible even from a distance, but the story and guitar solo-stones really should've been marked on the map or introduced some other way. Then again, there was a great deal of that in Psychonauts too, so if it didn't bother you then it really shouldn't bother you now.

Yes, there is flowers, but you don't know that before you find a location. I remember seeing one of so many damn popup telling me about the flowers, describing how we could use them to find ancient artifacts, but frankly, I didn't realize that a "MotorForge" was an ancient artifact before I got the quest to go to the MotorForge (right before the first Tour) and there was no Motorforge at the end of the cinematic. I had to enter the Motorforge twice to continue my quest, as there wasn't any weapon to buy the first time because I was apparently in "New Forge Found, Play The Cool Ozzy Cinematic" mode.

So yeah, it's a fair description IMHO.

Personally, I won't be getting Brutal Legend... I just couldn't get along with the demo (got as far as the big gate at the bottom of the ramp you descend with the spider-walker-thing). I love the old metal music's and the hack-and-slash and open world stuff I can cope with, but I really, really, really hate Jack Black, he very much gets on my nerves.

(And just in case any of you call me a "Yahtzee Cultist", I played Pyschonauts when it originally came out and got bored during the Military Bloke's War-torn Mind, but decided after Yahtzee's comments on it to try it again... Still came up bored and not enjoying it :-/ I thought some of the ideas were interesting, but for me the game was lacking some crucial component to keep my interest.)

Highlandheadbanger:

Jaqen Hghar:
I loved Brutal Legend. One of the best games this year. My only gripe with it is that the main story is a bit to short, and you have no way of seeing the cinematics over again.

A bit sad to see that people worship Yahtzees words, which in turn makes them pass over great games which he didn't like. These "reviews" are fun and all, but hardly proper reviews. Oh well, sucks for you worshipers I guess.
*dreams himself off to the Age of Metal*

Thank God man, I thought I was the only one who saw the development of a Yahtzee-worshiping cult. I hope it doesn't take a degree in Sociology or Religious History to see the Protestant Reformation parallel of it all.

It's one of my favorite games of all time, of course, thats along with games like Mirror's Edge, Mass Effect, and the Total War series*, so I'm pretty much an infidel to the Yahtzee-faithful.

*I recognize there hasn't been any offical dogma official denouncing the Total War series or the RTS genre in general, but if you've seen some of the forum chatter since Halo Wars and Darkest of Days, some elements of the RTS community fear that we may end up as the next scapegoat to be burned at the stake by these Gaming Zealots. If that day comes, I shall join you in Ironheade, as fighting a war against Trolls and Gaming Zealots is a lost cause.

I've been hanging out on these forums for a long while-- at least a year before I bothered to register and post. While I understand your concern, it's always been like this: there is a segment of fanboys who take Yahtzee's word as Gospel, and are very vocal in their adulation. That said, I don't think that is so much different than any forum- you're going to deal with a certain amount of fanboys. I think the real issue here is that it's impacting a game which you enjoy.

So I guess what I'm tryin to say is: don't stress about it man. It's not going to make any difference in the long run. Smart people will enjoy the reviews for their entertainment value and perhaps take into account any complaints Mr. Croshaw voices that align with our own pet peeves of games (I intensely dislike bad controls, so I take notice when he says a game has difficult or unresponsive input), but otherwise make our own decisions... but the sheep?

Well, sheep will be sheep, and there really is very little you can say to change that...

oooh, how i hate jack black. AND shitty sandbox games. and rtses.
and not because yahtzee told the same.

I'm rather surprised Yathzee didn't like this game (as opposed to any other game he's reviewed and didn't like). Basicly for all the points leading up to the part about RTS elements.

I'm not a diehard metal fan. I enjoy me some metal, now and again. :) The demo (all I can afford at this time) put a big stupid grin on my face. :D It's a shame to hear that it all bleeds away into an RTS sandbox. Maybe I can just reply the demo over and over? And learn the ways of French Kissing? :D (Big stupid grin.)

BlueInkAlchemist:

Highlandheadbanger:
This is more a rant about Yahtzee-fanboyism then the man's condemnation of today's game. (the rant has been cut for time but you should still read it)

There's a difference between being a fan and a fanboy. A fan of Yahtzee's holds onto their opinion but appreciates what he does - deliver fresh, well-written and funny content every single week, which is more than most American sitcoms can claim. A fanboy clings to his every word be it spoken very quickly into a headset microphone or stated somewhat quietly in person. For example, I enjoyed Mass Effect very much but I still smiled at Yahtzee's commentary on the wordiness of the game. Yahtzee isn't going to convince me to buy a game I hadn't considered buying - unless I hadn't heard of it, vis a vis Trine - nor is he going to convince me to stop liking a game he dislikes, such as the aforementioned Mass Effect.

Yahtzee himself has little patience for sycophants. From Mailbag Showdown:

"Do you really need somebody in authority giving you a simple Yay or Nay before you buy anything? Why don't you roll over so they can stomp on the other side of your face?"

I agree with you whole-heartedly my friend, I love Yahtzee and appreciate his insight even as he grounds some of my favorite games into the dust, like he said, I'm just another bleating sheep in the herd if I follow his commentary (glad you quoted that). I acknowledge the bad with the good, hell, thats just part of loving something-anything really. I know I sounded a little condemning in my preliminary statement about the review, but I wanted to get a forceful opinion out there and established lest it be altered and thrown in my face at a later date. Really, I laugh at what he says about things being a problem, if you honestly appreciate it, you gotta laugh and acknowledge the problem (though on a select few occasions, I found him take it to the point of excess, condemning one or two games over things I found to be either trivialities or non-problems).

Unfortunately, on forums, and in talking to fellow Zero Punctuation fans face-to-face, I've come across a disturbing trend in people who go beyond appreciation for what he says. Making prolonged rants about Mass Effect or Mirror's Edge (or one or two other games I'm less cavalier about), yet upon further inquiry learning the individual had not played the aforementioned game (not even a demo or at the least a youtube walkthrough!). The first instance of this was a year ago, but I've seen it becoming more and more prevalent as time goes on. Attitudes based upon faith and or [seeming] single-minded adolation, devoid of personal opinions or experience and personal introspection are highly dangerous. This is true whether you're talking about religious extremism, faith-based political action [or a more honest term-dogma based], or something much smaller in scale, such as this. The problem seems to manifest itself most prominently among former console fanboys, breaking free of their former idol only to latch onto a new prophet [whether or not that was his intent].

I'm reminded of the Protestant Reformation, or more recently, organized Dawkinst Athiesm. Where people break-off from a dominate religion or ethical philosophy, only to establish a new dogma and blind-following. A sociological irony deriving from some primal instint in the Ancient Thinker/Believer mental divide.

Samoftherocks:
After reading the posts here, I feel I fit into the minority of people who like Jack Black, Metal, RTSs, and don't mind a heavy-handed mix of all three in the same game. Listening to Dragonforce while driving around a crumbling castle and being assaulted by unmentionable evil is fucking awesome...but it's a niche. I get it. So what?

Exactly...

Yahtzee screwed up with this review IMHO. HE doesn't like the game, but at the same time wonder why some people didn't like Psychonaut. Just imagine that Brutal Legend is Psychonaut Yahtzee, you'll get it... Apparently Shaffer is capable of more than one niche genre, and Yahtzee is just throwing a hissy fit because he didn't pick his this time.

I mean, he didn't even mention the repetitive side quests, which is the most blatant problem in that game. Making the same 3 kind of missions over and over again for those upgrades points get boring quick... He didn't review the game, he reviews how it look like compared to what he likes, which is just what he does.

It was fun to play a sandbox game that wasn't about Being A Guy With A Gun In A World Of Many Guns. I'll take being a Roadie anytime over being a Tough Lone Soldier or yet another Gansta'.

This game Rocks! Heavy Metal style. Those that haven't played it and think it sucks should at least watch the let's play http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsbu6H2peLc&feature=PlayList&p=FD766B0FA900BAEC&index=0&playnext=1

Sorry, but I totally disagree. Funny review, but the RTS stage battles were the most fun for me. Charging into battle with a group of 40 headbangers, molotov-throwing hogs, roadies, and a goddamn Heavy Metal tank was amazing.

Motor Forges are pretty fucking obvious too. VERY early on in the game, it tells you to watch out for red vines, where you can raise relics from the ground. A motor forge is a fairly huge chunk of silvery metal surrounded by red vines. It's possible to miss them, but only if you're almost purposefully doing so.

If you want to complain, whine about the game's real issue: the side missions. Some are really fun and made me laugh at the VA work, but that was only about 10%. The rest are the same three or four basic missions over and over, and while it's not really that bad if you stagger them out over the game, if you're like me and tend to finish up sidemissions post-game, then it sucks. THAT is BL's biggest weakness.

That, and the story is very easy to speed through. I think Schafer imagined gamers would stop and do sidemissions instead of powering through the story quest. WHY he thought this, I have no idea, because the story and the overworld are the best parts of this game and I was really gunning to see the end of the plotline ASAP.

But this game's worth playing for the one thing Yahtzee didn't even mention (which kind of astounds me, really) and that's the overworld itself. The game's environment is pretty big, comparable to... maybe Saints Row 2 in sheer size. But the world is very obviously the crowning gem of the game and the many years of work that went into this game are most obvious when you're just driving around, listening to the radio, and finding things.

When I played, I found it's always a real, rich world. There are no open, blank areas to be found and no two spots look the same. I was driving around for a good ten minutes, just cruising, and I ran across the spine of Ormaggoden, a Stonehenge-esque rock formation, a 50 foot stone Celtic cross, an enormous car engine being dissolved by the sea, a cave filled with metal spiders with shiny metallic webs, statues of hands giving the "rock" sign to the sky, and a beachside rock concert. ALL IN TEN MINUTES. And I was on a very small part of the main map! It's like that everywhere!

I dunno. I just think this game is a must-rent. It's sadly not long enough to stand up to months of playing, but it's an amazing way to kill a week.

Though, fuck, Yahtzee's right about the Mount Rockmore thing. I had to consult Rooster Teeth's Achievement Hunter for that. Quick help for anyone who may rent BL: Hold X to release dragons, play Relic Raiser near vines, and do an Earthshaker to release Legends.

oh god how did I write so much what is wrong with me

I've yet to play it, but I am still tempted to get it, just for the soundtrack.

There is one question I wanted to ask though, I know it's about as likely as the moon colliding with Uranus, but are you gonna review Tropico 3? I know you're not a huge fan, but this is meant to have a bit of humour and other such things to tease you over. That and you get to be a dictator.

SPOILERS!

I actually liked Brutal Legend, but the biggest problem I had with it was that it ended too abruptly! I thought when I defeated the Drowning Doom at the Sea of Black Tears, and Ophelia would see the errors of her ways and rejoin Ironheade, that there were going to be more missions before the final battle against Emperor Doviculus in the kingdom of the Tainted Coil... but NO! The Tainted Coil assaulted the Sea of Black Tears and Eddie battled Doviculus in the heart of some giant demonic church/obsidian sludge beast. Eddie chopped off the Emperor's head and only a few minutes later, the credits started rolling; there wasn't even a post-credit scene where Doviculus's head emerged from the Black Tears saying something like "I will f**king kill you, Son of Succoria...".

I hope this problem will be better assessed... in Brutal Legend II!

LadyZephyr:
Sorry, but I totally disagree. Funny review, but the RTS stage battles were the most fun for me. Charging into battle with a group of 40 headbangers, molotov-throwing hogs, roadies, and a goddamn Heavy Metal tank was amazing.

Motor Forges are pretty fucking obvious too. VERY early on in the game, it tells you to watch out for red vines, where you can raise relics from the ground. A motor forge is a fairly huge chunk of silvery metal surrounded by red vines. It's possible to miss them, but only if you're almost purposefully doing so.

(...)

Though, fuck, Yahtzee's right about the Mount Rockmore thing. I had to consult Rooster Teeth's Achievement Hunter for that. Quick help for anyone who may rent BL: Hold X to release dragons, play Relic Raiser near vines, and do an Earthshaker to release Legends.

oh god how did I write so much what is wrong with me

Apparently, some people had problems with the Forge, while others had problems with the Rockmore thing.

"Relics" != Motor Forge, and I was looking for a Motor Forge. Like you said, the map visuals are plenty and abundant, a "fairly huge chunk of silvery metal surrounded by red vines" doesn't look much out of place in that world, especially at the speed that the scenery fly by.

I'm not defending Yahtzee here, I'm saying that when he started talking about Rockmore, I kept thinking how I had trouble finding the Motor Forge, and then he mentioned the Motor Forge. Apparently he isn't alone who drove around looking for a Motor Forge...

The video does'nt work it just has a spinning ring in the left bit of the player.

Halp.

Little Duck:
I've yet to play it, but I am still tempted to get it, just for the soundtrack.

There is one question I wanted to ask though, I know it's about as likely as the moon colliding with Uranus, but are you gonna review Tropico 3? I know you're not a huge fan, but this is meant to have a bit of humour and other such things to tease you over. That and you get to be a dictator.

Did you miss the part of the video that mentioned how he hate RTSes?

Man it gets so old hearing the harping about Psychonauts. I am never playing that stupid game, it sold badly because the game just looks and sounds stupid. Most people don't like it. Why do people who develop a cult following (The very meaning of being a hardcore following of something most people don't) want everyone to follow it too? If they did then it'd be a generic borefest of mediocrity. The Need for speed series started out a little more "cultish" but NFS Underground made it mainstream popular and then EA has turned it into a shitfest - the last decent NFS title being Carbon (Which was just Most Wanted with some extra stuff basically). You DON'T want your favorite cult game to be a popular game...it won't end well.

I liked the old Populus game but I doubt a remake would be as good as the one I played. Cult games went into production WAY more in the 90's - now it's mostly big boys. We do get stuff like Bioshock and Mass Effect that come out from nowhere that are good stuff but a remake of an old game today isn't usually as good as fans would like them to be.

A little more on the game though, Brutal Legend looked stupid since I heard about it so glad to see Yahtzee tearing it up. I do not know - nor do I care who Tim Schaffer is. Whoop-dee-whoop. The fact some dude had something to do with it means nothing to me, the whole idea of a metal game just sounded stupid from the start. I like trance music but I can tell you a game with hack and slash and RTS elements with people dressed up like ravers in a "rave world" sounds stupid, so it's not just because I don't care for metal. Although as I said elsewhere the fact Jack Black was involved already sealed the deal I knew it would suck - since Jack Black sucks he transfers his suckdom to everything he is involved with in any way.

Gutterpunk:

Little Duck:
I've yet to play it, but I am still tempted to get it, just for the soundtrack.

There is one question I wanted to ask though, I know it's about as likely as the moon colliding with Uranus, but are you gonna review Tropico 3? I know you're not a huge fan, but this is meant to have a bit of humour and other such things to tease you over. That and you get to be a dictator.

Did you miss the part of the video that mentioned how he hate RTSes?

I saw. I still think he might like it, at least a little.

HAHA, that was funny!
Now to wait 7 more days before my next drug injection.

epunk35:
I laughed so hard. Brutal Legend looked pretty stupid to me, basically Jack Black's chance to wank.

Jack Black always wanks. He's also not funny.

I haven't played the game, and never will for the sole reason that Jack Black is in it. This review just gave me more reasons to not buy it.

Thanks Yahtzee! I appreciate it very much!

Thos "1st" comments are actually starting to annoy me. Great review but disagree that all genres are being killed by the sandbox monster but it would be nice to see some variety. The umlaut thing was pretty funny too.

Abedeus:

Darrkon Fearlock:
Not to try and destroy Yahtzee's point with the RTS thing, but after the game came out Tim Schafer came out and said not to play it like an RTS and to play it more like a hack and slash with RTS elements. Like you should be down there a fair bit with your guys, you just need to replenish them every once in a while.

You know that you failed if you have to explain how to play your game to GAMERS. Because people playing games 10+ years (or 15+, what the hell) are usually considered gamers.

Did you know that some of the best chess players in the world do extremely bad at fairy chess? It's because they're too familiar with concepts they already know and unable to adapt to something different. And that's exactly the problem that your sort of "gamers" has with Brütal Legend.

------

The game has it's issues:
- rushed story
- overall far too low difficulty
- demo didn't give a full impression of the game

But I love the stage battles, especially in multiplayer. I usually don't like RTS games, but Brütal Legend cut all the stuff that I can't stand about the genre (basebuilding and the inability to take part in the action, to name the two most prominent) and made it into something I can truely enjoy. Also, the game has an awesome soundtrack and a great presentation.

Some of you might not "get" the game, the same way I can't "get" Starcraft or any sports game ever made, but you should at least try it out if you can borrow it from a friend before you pass your judgement.

I'm a huge Tim Schafer games fan (specially Grim Fandango and Pshyconouts). But i didn´t expect any good game if have jack black on it. It's like expecting to see a Charlie Sheen movie and take it seriously.

Good Review Never The Less.

Fronzel:
It's my understanding that Brutal Legend was originally going to star a Jack Black impersonator, but the man himself liked the whole idea and wanted to get involved.

For those of you who thought that Black overpowered the game, do you think the notBlack might have been better? Not that you have much information to judge on.

Highlandheadbanger:
I'm sorry he didn't like the game, but frankly, I don't give a toss what Yahtzee has to say when it comes to buying a game.

You act like this means something to other people.

Fallopian_Faust:
[Yahtzee's] views on a game mean even less to me than the so-called "professionals" at IGN and the like.

The reason for this is he's a comedian...

So it's impossible to make a valid point in a humorous manner?

Jonathon Swift is going to be PISSED.

He does occasionally make some good points, but his reviews are rants that usually only focus on the negative aspects of a game for sheer entertainment value. I find "professional reviewer" to be an oxymoron as it is. When you get down to it, it's just some schlob's opinion that is no more relevant than anyone else's.