Mecha Magnates

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Mecha Magnates

Mecha games may all share a similar aesthetic, but they're more diverse than they look.

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No Japanese shit can beat BattleTech. Hands down :)

MiodekPL:
No Japanese shit can beat BattleTech. Hands down :)

We talking games here? Or the franchise?

Games of course, like MechWarriors (from 1 to 4) and MechCommanders (1 and 2). Of course you can add Assault Tech 1 if you like, but it's sill a beta version :)

MiodekPL:
No Japanese shit can beat BattleTech. Hands down :)

depends on the specific franchises
battle tech might be awesome, but its hardly a hands down manner

I kind of wish there were more giant robot games released in the US. I miss the old Mechwarrior days on the PC.

MiodekPL:
Games of course, like MechWarriors (from 1 to 4) and MechCommanders (1 and 2). Of course you can add Assault Tech 1 if you like, but it's sill a beta version :)

Okay. As long as we're just talking games ;)

Oh, and shame on you Mr. Barder for not mentioning the most awesome mecha combat game ever made in Japan:

MiodekPL:
No Japanese shit can beat BattleTech. Hands down :)

Batteletech IS Japanese. After all, the vast majority of the designs were lifted from various anime like Dougram and Macross.

I know - franchise was quite raped someday, but it's getting better. New MechWarrior game is coming, someone is even trying to revive whole franchise. I that mechs' using lasers and missiles are way better than those using swords and fists :)

EDIT - UP^ - this was the rape I was talking about. A very sad moment for whole franchise.

CantFaketheFunk:
Oh, and shame on you Mr. Barder for not mentioning the most awesome mecha combat game ever made in Japan:

Would a video of me kicking the final boss' arse suffice?

MiodekPL:
I know - franchise was quite raped someday, but it's getting better. New MechWarrior game is coming, someone is even trying to revive whole franchise. I that mechs' using lasers and missiles are way better than those using swords and fists :)

EDIT - UP^ - this was the rape I was talking about. A very sad moment for whole franchise.

Oh, Japanese mecha have plenty of lasers and missiles. See also: "Missle Massacre, Macross"

Ollie Barder:

CantFaketheFunk:
Oh, and shame on you Mr. Barder for not mentioning the most awesome mecha combat game ever made in Japan:

Would a video of me kicking the final boss' arse suffice?

...acceptable. For now!

CantFaketheFunk:
Oh, Japanese mecha have plenty of lasers and missiles. See also: "Missle Massacre, Macross"

It's called the Itano Circus, the Macross Missile Massacre is a misnomer as Itano created the missile flourish before Macross.

CantFaketheFunk:

...acceptable. For now!

Heheh, Metal Wolf Chaos is a fun game but the purpose of the article was to cover games that were influential. In that sense, Armored Core covers off a lot of MWC's functionality (not surprising considering it was made by the same developer).

MiodekPL:
I know - franchise was quite raped someday, but it's getting better. New MechWarrior game is coming, someone is even trying to revive whole franchise. I that mechs' using lasers and missiles are way better than those using swords and fists :)

EDIT - UP^ - this was the rape I was talking about. A very sad moment for whole franchise.

Except in the latest MechWarrior reboot trailer they featured a Warhawk, which is actually a Tomahawk from Macross. Oh and the Battletech rights holders are getting sued AGAIN because of this.

Battletech is full of Japanese ripoffs though, it's been known about for years.

Ollie Barder:
Except in the latest MechWarrior reboot trailer they featured a Warhawk, which is actually a Tomahawk from Macross. Oh and the Battletech rights holders are getting sued AGAIN because of this.

Battletech is full of Japanese ripoffs though, it's been known about for years.

And that's the bad thing in BT. I wish they gone their way all time. That mix is still awesome, but it would be much better if they not used anything Japanese.

MiodekPL:
And that's the bad thing in BT. I wish they gone their way all time. That mix is still awesome, but it would be much better if they not used anything Japanese.

But that's the rub though; a lot of Battletech's rules come from the Japanese designs they ripped off. As all the real robot functionality is core to how Battletech works and without it just wouldn't make sense at all.

I also know this. I meant that if they used their ideas, it would be a lot better than those generic Japan mechs. Did I mentioned that I hate manga/anime? :)

Waht about Steel Lancer Arena international i ask?

MiodekPL:
I also know this. I meant that if they used their ideas, it would be a lot better than those generic Japan mechs. Did I mentioned that I hate manga/anime? :)

And honestly, I find most of the original BattleTech designs ugly as sin. Give me a good Gundam or two any day.

Like, the Kaempfer and Strike Noir are cooler than all of the BattleTech stuff combined. Srsly :P

rayen020:
Waht about Steel Lancer Arena international i ask?

Armored Core and Virtual On pre-date it.

Ollie Barder:

MiodekPL:
And that's the bad thing in BT. I wish they gone their way all time. That mix is still awesome, but it would be much better if they not used anything Japanese.

But that's the rub though; a lot of Battletech's rules come from the Japanese designs they ripped off. As all the real robot functionality is core to how Battletech works and without it just wouldn't make sense at all.

Also, in terms of Realism, Battletech robots are... kinda silly. Now I'm not defending the realism of Japanese Robot Designs, I'm just saying that a 30-50 foot tall bipedal tank with legs is strategically silly, especially with how they're used in Battletech/Mechwarrior. You'd be much better off with a giant four legged tank ala Patlabor or Ghost in the Shell.

Anyway, Mr. Barder, I must ask, why did you leave out Zone of The Enders? I've never seen a game that really captures the feel of a Giant Robot Anime like ZOE2 does.

PedroSteckecilo:

Ollie Barder:
But that's the rub though; a lot of Battletech's rules come from the Japanese designs they ripped off. As all the real robot functionality is core to how Battletech works and without it just wouldn't make sense at all.

Also, in terms of Realism, Battletech robots are... kinda silly. Now I'm not defending the realism of Japanese Robot Designs, I'm just saying that a 30-50 foot tall bipedal tank with legs is strategically silly, especially with how they're used in Battletech/Mechwarrior. You'd be much better off with a giant four legged tank ala Patlabor or Ghost in the Shell.

Anyway, Mr. Barder, I must ask, why did you leave out Zone of The Enders? I've never seen a game that really captures the feel of a Giant Robot Anime like ZOE2 does.

Well, we're not talking about realism here :) As far as I'm concerned, bipedal 100-ton mechs' are quite impossible to exist. So realism is not much of a concern here. But mechs fighting with swords and fists are just wrong.

PedroSteckecilo:
Also, in terms of Realism, Battletech robots are... kinda silly. Now I'm not defending the realism of Japanese Robot Designs, I'm just saying that a 30-50 foot tall bipedal tank with legs is strategically silly, especially with how they're used in Battletech/Mechwarrior. You'd be much better off with a giant four legged tank ala Patlabor or Ghost in the Shell.

Anyway, Mr. Barder, I must ask, why did you leave out Zone of The Enders? I've never seen a game that really captures the feel of a Giant Robot Anime like ZOE2 does.

I didn't leave ZOE out, it's mentioned in the Virtual On segment.

In terms of realism in Japanese mecha designs, it depends on which branch you refer to; super robots are very much unrealistic (like Mazinger and Getter Robo for instance) but real robots are by their nomenclature much more grounded. Both Patlabor and GitS fall under that designation btw.

Nice article!
Lucky for me, my local arcade has an Virtuial On machine.
Still trying to get used to the Dual Joysticks.
Its a sweet game.
All this mecha talk makes me want to play Super Robot Taisen OG Saga: EF and watch G Gundam, at the same time......

I played MechWarrior (1-4)/Virtual On/Armored Core(2 and newer), MechCommander quite heavily along with a few other randoms.

Virtual On is definitely the best arcade mecha series.

MechWarrior was pretty good with 3 being my favorite. I really lost interest with 4, didn't like it at all. Multiplayer wasn't the best due to how slow the game is in general, but solo play was pretty good tactical wise, at least for how I played.

Armored Core has been my favorite out of the mecha based games I have played so far. Find both the solo play and the multiplayer to be quite good. And I believe the multiplayer is enhanced by so much customization. You really don't know what your opponent is going to do. It also allows for the best variance in play styles. Typically stay with 3 major build variations. 1 super heavy loaded with everything I can throw on it. A medium build for most missions, and an identical body with different weapons for duels, and player on player matches.

I tried a few other randoms here and there but none of them ever sparked my interest the same as the above.

I'll end up trying to track down some of the ones you mentioned that I haven't tried yet.

MiodekPL:

PedroSteckecilo:

Ollie Barder:
But that's the rub though; a lot of Battletech's rules come from the Japanese designs they ripped off. As all the real robot functionality is core to how Battletech works and without it just wouldn't make sense at all.

Also, in terms of Realism, Battletech robots are... kinda silly. Now I'm not defending the realism of Japanese Robot Designs, I'm just saying that a 30-50 foot tall bipedal tank with legs is strategically silly, especially with how they're used in Battletech/Mechwarrior. You'd be much better off with a giant four legged tank ala Patlabor or Ghost in the Shell.

Anyway, Mr. Barder, I must ask, why did you leave out Zone of The Enders? I've never seen a game that really captures the feel of a Giant Robot Anime like ZOE2 does.

Well, we're not talking about realism here :) As far as I'm concerned, bipedal 100-ton mechs' are quite impossible to exist. So realism is not much of a concern here. But mechs fighting with swords and fists are just wrong.

If that's your sole criteria the robots in Macross, VOTOMS and MOSPEDA only fight with "fists" in desperation and not as a primary means of combat. If you ask me, loading down a rickety, bipedal frame with 100 tonnes of weaponry is "just wrong". Besides, the real awesomeness of Battletech is the universe itself, with all its politics, mercenaries and backstabbing.

Ollie Barder:

MiodekPL:
No Japanese shit can beat BattleTech. Hands down :)

Batteletech IS Japanese. After all, the vast majority of the designs were lifted from various anime like Dougram and Macross.

I would say that vast majority is a bit stretch. Saying that a handful would be more appropriate.

CantFaketheFunk:

MiodekPL:
I also know this. I meant that if they used their ideas, it would be a lot better than those generic Japan mechs. Did I mentioned that I hate manga/anime? :)

And honestly, I find most of the original BattleTech designs ugly as sin. Give me a good Gundam or two any day.

Like, the Kaempfer and Strike Noir are cooler than all of the BattleTech stuff combined. Srsly :P

Apples and oranges in my opinion. Original Battletech designs, ie none of the Unseen, are much more focused on form meets function with visual embellishments few and far between. Japanese mecha seemed to be designed to be the opposite of that.

MiodekPL:

Well, we're not talking about realism here :) As far as I'm concerned, bipedal 100-ton mechs' are quite impossible to exist. So realism is not much of a concern here. But mechs fighting with swords and fists are just wrong.

While not featured in the Mechwarrior games, melee combat was a good portion of the Battletech rules, why waste precious autocannon ammo when you could slam into them and push them down a hill for massive damage. Some designs even had integrated melee weapons - the Axeman for example.

Slycne:

I would say that vast majority is a bit stretch. Saying that a handful would be more appropriate.

Without the original core Japanese real robot designs Battletech wouldn't have the cogent framework it has today.

CantFaketheFunk:

Apples and oranges in my opinion. The original Battletech design is much more focused on form meets function. With Japanese mecha being designed to look 'cool'.

That's not entirely accurate, as real robots (from Dougram and VOTOMS) are much more about form meets function. I think you're confusing super robots with reals here.

Sigh.....I want to play Steel Battilion again.

Make a new alread damn it!

Or at least another Chromehounds....

*looks at macross collection* Now. Where to start?

MiodekPL:

PedroSteckecilo:

Ollie Barder:
But that's the rub though; a lot of Battletech's rules come from the Japanese designs they ripped off. As all the real robot functionality is core to how Battletech works and without it just wouldn't make sense at all.

Also, in terms of Realism, Battletech robots are... kinda silly. Now I'm not defending the realism of Japanese Robot Designs, I'm just saying that a 30-50 foot tall bipedal tank with legs is strategically silly, especially with how they're used in Battletech/Mechwarrior. You'd be much better off with a giant four legged tank ala Patlabor or Ghost in the Shell.

Anyway, Mr. Barder, I must ask, why did you leave out Zone of The Enders? I've never seen a game that really captures the feel of a Giant Robot Anime like ZOE2 does.

Well, we're not talking about realism here :) As far as I'm concerned, bipedal 100-ton mechs' are quite impossible to exist. So realism is not much of a concern here. But mechs fighting with swords and fists are just wrong.

The Gundam Virtue laughs at your "swords and fists". As does the Freedom's METEOR system. ;)

MiodekPL:

Well, we're not talking about realism here :) As far as I'm concerned, bipedal 100-ton mechs' are quite impossible to exist. So realism is not much of a concern here. But mechs fighting with swords and fists are just wrong.

image

What about the Scopedog's arm punch?

Ollie Barder:

Would a video of me kicking the final boss' arse suffice?

OH MY GOD THE ENGLISH VOICE ACTING IS THE WORST THING I HAVE HEARD ALL DAY.

AND I WAS IN A PHYSICS LECTURE.

OH GOD

NICE ONE MICHAEL BUT NOW IT'S TIME FOR MY WILD CARD.
s[dfakljfksdalfjdsa]faf
ads;jf
adsl;fj
;lfa
jl

MISTER PRESIDENT
HURRY AND DESTROY IT

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGG

Anyway, I love Battletech, but in more recent years I've found myself growing on Gundam and stuff like that mainly because of the lack of Battletech games. I just feel mixed about venturing into Front Mission or something like that simply because the dialogue would most likely be horrible, like every other mech game.

At least with Mechwarrior, the FMV look like they were made in the 80's and I can pretend it's -supposed- to be cheesy instead of it just -being- cheesy...But sadly, I doubt it's possible to take any of it 'seriously' with the poetic garbage the clans spew (which I love), the way they worship kerensky and his revelations, and the way the inner sphere scoff at the clans for being morons yet have their own inner fighting...

But I've never really gotten to play most of the things on this list - I've seen and played a couple armored cores, but I've only really owned mechwarriors and games like "robotech battlecry" which I hope don't remotely encompass the robotech/macross world at all...

PedroSteckecilo:

MiodekPL:

PedroSteckecilo:

Ollie Barder:
But that's the rub though; a lot of Battletech's rules come from the Japanese designs they ripped off. As all the real robot functionality is core to how Battletech works and without it just wouldn't make sense at all.

Also, in terms of Realism, Battletech robots are... kinda silly. Now I'm not defending the realism of Japanese Robot Designs, I'm just saying that a 30-50 foot tall bipedal tank with legs is strategically silly, especially with how they're used in Battletech/Mechwarrior. You'd be much better off with a giant four legged tank ala Patlabor or Ghost in the Shell.

Anyway, Mr. Barder, I must ask, why did you leave out Zone of The Enders? I've never seen a game that really captures the feel of a Giant Robot Anime like ZOE2 does.

Well, we're not talking about realism here :) As far as I'm concerned, bipedal 100-ton mechs' are quite impossible to exist. So realism is not much of a concern here. But mechs fighting with swords and fists are just wrong.

If that's your sole criteria the robots in Macross, VOTOMS and MOSPEDA only fight with "fists" in desperation and not as a primary means of combat. If you ask me, loading down a rickety, bipedal frame with 100 tonnes of weaponry is "just wrong". Besides, the real awesomeness of Battletech is the universe itself, with all its politics, mercenaries and backstabbing.

In all of these cases, I fail to see why exactly you're arguing over the relative realism of mecha designs when there's an obvious, elephant-in-the-room, engineering failure with every mecha design, even the ones in things such as Patlabor - the use of reciprocating movement within the leg structures. Legs might work well in biological contexts, but biological organisms possess "machines" on the molecular and cellular levels. No machine in the context of mecha has that advantage, and because we're talking about machines here, reciprocating motion just makes things wear out that much more quickly, to add to various other disadvantages of the design. And that's before you get to the other weaknesses of mecha design.

I mean, if you're going to be a bunch of realism freaks, is it enough to ask that you be consistent about it? You'll give veteran killjoys like me a bad name!

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