Uncharted 2

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Wow! I've just signed up, to say a few things.

I watch Zero Punctuation every week at work and love the reviews, they're fun, they usually make me laugh out loud and its a break through the day. I always find the reviews much better when you have played the game being reviewed as well.

I'm truley, truely gobsmacked to read this thread and the other Zero punctuation Uncharted 2 thread (Nothing specifically to do with Uncharted, I just don't normally read the comment pages for obviosu reasons), and find that there are people that are saying they will not play this game based on the Zero Punctuation review! Really?

I would like to ask these people how many games you have played this year?
Yahtzee obviously puts a negative spin on his reviews, thats why they are loved and watched by so many, but there are people actually taking them seriously.

Is this because they don't quite understand the very british humour and need to critize everything thats quite clearly present in them?

Is it (in the case of a game like this one) because they don't own a PS3 and use this as some strange reasoning for themselves to not want to play the game? Having not looked at many of the other comment threads I can't really say on this as I don't know if people make comments like this for other games that mult-plat etc.

Or are there genuinly people on here that will only play a game that #
A) Yahtzee loves according to his reviews (I think I can probably count these on one hand)
B) Yahtzee hasn't reviewed (If he reviews the game later, and you loved it, does that mean you have to sell it and then start hating it?)

Even this aritcle, it is quite clear that Yahtzee is (purposfully) being very one sided, he doesn't raise any points about the good sides of drakes character.
The whole article about a GAME is in fact entirely about the character you play as.
This is what makes it entertaining reading. Do people really not get that.

Wow, that was a long first post. Sorry all!
Just to add.
I, clearly, love the game, but can still agree with most of Yahtzee's criticisms having played it, thats why the reviews are more interesting when you've actually played the game being reviewed.

Interesting, but I wouldn't have worried about the spoilers as much.

I haven't palyed it, was diappointed there was going to be spoilers, and then my spirits were back up once I got to the end.

Anyway, I would have to say that I've never liked Drake much either, from what I've seen in the first Uncharted. I've palyed much more interesting protagonists in my day. (Ezio from AC2 is a personal favorite at the moment, but I'll always have a soft spot for Max Payne.)

I gotta' say, though, just 'cause I've hated the protagonist in some of the games I've played, I can't say that it completely ruins the game. For example, I hate most of the characters in Gears of War, however I think Gears of War is a petty good game. (Then again, I've always loved TPS games since I played the first Max Payne.)

I guess what I'm saying is, I think I'm going to take the Uncharted review with a grain of salt and eventually get it. I liked the first Uncharted, and I've heard good things about this one for the most part. Even though I'm not a fan of Mr. Drake, I don't mind if I get to pretend he is a more interesting character like Indiana Jones.

You can't invalidate someone's opinions because they write humorously. Yes, he's doing it for comedic effect but it's not as if he's just making things up. He'll point out a games flaws using exaggerated language. It's the exaggerated language that is the humor, not the flaws. The flaws are real, the complaints are genuine, the humor is in understanding that even with games that you like and he hates - he's right on the money with his complaints.

Hell my favorite articles and reviews of his are for games that I like. I laugh because I know he's right.

"Maybe in the intro he could lovingly sprinkle some fish flakes into a goldfish bowl before he heads out to ransack a temple and murder a prostitute."

Reminds me of the canary in Agent 47 hideout in Blood Money.

AcacianLeaves:
You can't invalidate someone's opinions because they write humorously. Yes, he's doing it for comedic effect but it's not as if he's just making things up. He'll point out a games flaws using exaggerated language. It's the exaggerated language that is the humor, not the flaws. The flaws are real, the complaints are genuine, the humor is in understanding that even with games that you like and he hates - he's right on the money with his complaints.

Hell my favorite articles and reviews of his are for games that I like. I laugh because I know he's right.

I'm not, I'm saying the same thing as you, did I not say, I agree with him on the stuff he says, and the reviews are better if you've actually played the game.

I'm just saying I can't believe people base their buying decisions on his reviews alone...

Fluffy0883:

AcacianLeaves:
You can't invalidate someone's opinions because they write humorously. Yes, he's doing it for comedic effect but it's not as if he's just making things up. He'll point out a games flaws using exaggerated language. It's the exaggerated language that is the humor, not the flaws. The flaws are real, the complaints are genuine, the humor is in understanding that even with games that you like and he hates - he's right on the money with his complaints.

Hell my favorite articles and reviews of his are for games that I like. I laugh because I know he's right.

I'm not, I'm saying the same thing as you, did I not say, I agree with him on the stuff he says, and the reviews are better if you've actually played the game.

I'm just saying I can't believe people base their buying decisions on his reviews alone...

Hell personally I can't believe people base their buying decisions on ANYONE'S reviews.

Usually if I haven't bought a game Yahtzee's reviewed already, I'll keep his comments in mind. If the things he's complaining about don't sound like they'd hurt my gaming experience, I consider it an endorsement. He'll point out the bad things that most other reviewers will never mention.

Yeah, but Han Solo's good looking.

KDR_11k:
So how does that stack up with Lara Croft? I mean, we do see some parts of her private life but you still consider her evil.

That's cause she IS evil.

OT: Videogames with guns are usually about killing people. I'm not exactly surpirsed that this game is no exception.

Nice top gear reference there, though I doubt you'll get in as much shit as Jeremy Clarkson did.

Speaking of which, did anybody watch it yesterday? Eric Bana was the star in a reasonably priced car!

i realy dont get you here, sure he's a cocky smart arse douche but thats what alot of people like about him, i think partialy the reason you dont like him is coz he can have just as much wit and be as cocky as u and u dont like people or a rival. personaly i find him at least a little funny ulike the prince form prince of persia who is the biggest dick in all of gaming along with all other characters in the franchise, this may be abit personal now but what the hell. weve all seen that you dont like any good characters anyway so ill just ignore any character comments from now on.

Uhhh...Yahtzee is playing fast and loose with several of the plot points. (Drake being responsible for Jeff's demise, killing Lazarevic, Drake being responsible for Elena's injuries, not caring about any of the aforementioned things...)

But it's his judgement and I'm not going to change it. Nor do I have any interest to.

JC175:
Can't say I can really properly comment on this, as I haven't played the game or its predecessor. But I will say that making the main character a douchebag only works...wait, no, it never works.

No More Heroes

Thank you, Yahtzee, for perfectly explaining something I can not:

Why this game just feels "cold" to me.

AcacianLeaves:

Hell personally I can't believe people base their buying decisions on ANYONE'S reviews.

Amen to that.
On another note, this community actually seems pretty reserved for a Gaming forum. I might hang around. -lol- :)

BehattedWanderer:

Woodsey:

BehattedWanderer:
Interesting that you label some of those with unique stories, whilst criticizing them earlier for being unoriginal and uncreative. Similarly interesting how the biggest compliment the game has received is that it's pretty, visual, and cinematic--all good qualities, but there's no good word to be had for gameplay. One would think an acclaimed game would have acclaim about the gameplay...hmmm...

There's been plenty of acclaim for the gameplay.

All I've heard is that it's functional, or suited, or fitting--hardly acclaim.

Alright, well I've heard it's almost entirely unoriginal but is exceptionally good.

You know, I just realized that the photo of Yahtzee for this series has a much fuller beard than the man in the DC video does.

Yahtzee, you scamp, are you trying to make yourself look better for the ladies? Or have the editors of the Escapist decided to 'play up' your obvious masculinity by filling in and trimming that goatee of yours?

C'mon. You can tell us.

Bad Kermit:
So, I have to wonder if Yahtzee hates Han Solo as much as Drake. Same smug attitude. Same money-driven motivation. Same willingness to kill whomever he "needs" to kill.

The thing about Han-Solo is that he evolves as a character over the course of the movies. He is deliberately an money-driven (bad)ass(hole) so that they can make him all squishy later on.

I guess they tried to take a tiny step in that direction with Uncharted 2 (not shooting guards, saving Jeff etc.) but it all came off as kind of half-arsed.

That said. I don't think Uncharted has a good story, and I don't think Drake is a great character. But, and this is important, they are a good match for this type of game. You cannot compare movies to games the same way you cannot compare books to movies. In a game the plot has to share the spotlight with gameplay. Gamers and games alike value plot to different degrees, but the fact still remains, it can not be just plot, then it's not a game.

What I always liked about Uncharted is the way it's balanced. It's puzzled together so that neither shooting, cutscenes, platforming or puzzling becomes boring or drags on. In short: It's very fast paced and has a good flow. For this the whole "charismatic son-of-a-B looking for a treasure" works very well. We're familiar with the setting, it doesn't need much explaining. We can just jump right into it and get on with the game without having to worry about what's happening or why it's happening, yet it's still unpredictable enough to keep us playing.

The very same thing goes for the characters and dialog. They wouldn't last a second in an RPG, but here they are just deep enough to keep us interested in between the shootouts and just shallow enough to make sense before the game is over.

Look, I'm not saying I don't enjoy a good story , Dragon Age was pretty much the opposite of this and I loved that game. There are efforts to be made with Uncharted's story as well as it's character, but it all needs to be within the context of the game.

On the one hand, Yahtzee's right. I haven't played Uncharted 2 yet, but I found him unlikeable in the first and find it likely I will dislike him in the second. I feel this way a lot. I find a lot of characters to be 2D pretending to be 3D. it's old. It's tiresome.

And on the other hand, when it comes to a video game, plot usually comes second. I'm going to use the example of Saints Row 2, where none of the characters are really all that realistic, the main character is a two dimensional sociopath, and the only thing I can say about the story is it's a mildly amusing way to kill some time between sessions of killing people.

I guess the point is that I consider the story to most games to be about as tacked on as the single player experience in most shooters. But that brings me back to the first hand.

Just because the story isn't necessarily essential to the gameplay experience doesn't mean that Drake is any less awful as a character. It doesn't make bad stories good. Really, I'm amazed that anyone would think that the difference in medium would make bad characters any better. It's not even really more understandable, especially since the stories are being pushed as part of the experience now. They should be better than a throw away direct-to-DVD movie, or be panned as such. Bad characters are bad characters. Bad plots are bad plots.

And while I'll play a game despite a lacking story, that really excuses nothing, even from my "Press whatever button skips this tripe" point of view.

kuolonen:

Xiado:
Not to justify Uncharted 2, which was stupid, but not much originality in games this year, even among what you named

Borderlands: Wasteland space planet and lost treasure- not original
Modern Warfare 2: Creatively executed, but pretty much ripped off of Tom Clancy's works, I felt like I was playing Splinter Cell: Bullet Hose edition
Brooetal Legend: Rips off of pretty much everything in heavy metal
Batman: Arkham Asylum: Hasn't this thing been done in the comics, movies, and tv shows a million times already?
Darkest of Days: You got me, this was pretty original
Overlord 2: Same as the first game, so not really original
Infamous: Ripped off Prototype
Prototype: Ripped off Infamous
Bionic Commando: The name speaks for itself
Velvet Assassin: Kind of original, but loses points for being based on a real person
Madworld: Deathmatch tv show. I think Manhunt did something like this.

have no fear, the nitpick train is here!

Borderlands: Wasteland space planet and lost treasure- not original
-for the life of me, i cant recall the last game where you were searching for lost treasure on inhospitaple wasteland planet...

Modern Warfare 2: Creatively executed, but pretty much ripped off of Tom Clancy's works, I felt like I was playing Splinter Cell: Bullet Hose edition
- Dont have that much knowledge on Clancy's works but I'd hazard to guess that the general atmosphere is around in evry wargame... difficult to say

Brooetal Legend: Rips off of pretty much everything in heavy metal
-ahh my friend, but he was refering to its originality in GAMES, not in general world (on side note wtf would classify as original nowdays anyway EVRYthings been done with something, just not WITH evrything)

Batman: Arkham Asylum: Hasn't this thing been done in the comics, movies, and tv shows a million times already?
-once more youre list does not include games, name last game where you assumed the role of a crimefighter who infiltrates asylum taken over by its inhabitants.

Darkest of Days: You got me, this was pretty original
- no arguments here

Infamous: Ripped off Prototype
Prototype: Ripped off Infamous
-true enough, but when its two games amids hundreds of others I think we can call the story original. Also the stories arent exactly identical...

Bionic Commando: The name speaks for itself
-true enough

Velvet Assassin: Kind of original, but loses points for being based on a real person
-eeh so how does that change the fact that its original in GAMES..?

Madworld: Deathmatch tv show. I think Manhunt did something like this.
-Agreed but once again its two games amids hundreds

Movies and TV shows are a media we're all exposed to just as much as video games, just because games are separate shouldn't mean game developers can rip off stuff seen and done to death in other medias all they want.

Being exposed to the same formulaic story lines and plots seen in TV shows and movies just cheapens the experience.

It's funny; I like Nathan Drake's character for the exact same reasons Yahtzee hates him.

I think I might be an asshole.

Maybe in the intro he could lovingly sprinkle some fish flakes into a goldfish bowl before he heads out to ransack a temple and murder a prostitute.

And Uncharted 3 was born.

Bad Kermit:
So, I have to wonder if Yahtzee hates Han Solo as much as Drake. Same smug attitude. Same money-driven motivation. Same willingness to kill whomever he "needs" to kill.

...

Did you watch the Star Wars movies films at all?

hermes200:

TundraWolf:

Madworld: Deathmatch tv show. I think Manhunt did something like this.

There are differences between the two, but I get the point. Still, can you name any other games like those? Just because it's happened once doesn't make it unoriginal. It's stuff that has happened twenty times over or more that gets old (space marine fighting alien hordes, for instance).

You mean, futuristics game shows as "game premise" to justify mass killing? Ok... Here are some:
- Fatal Review
- F-Zero
- Madworld
- MegaRace
- MTV Celebrity Deadmatch
- Rage
- Ratchet Deadlocked
- Serious Sam
- Smash TV
- The Grid
- Unreal Tournament
- Whacked!
- Zhadnost: The People's Party

Not to menction the entire premise is lifted of The Running Man (that has its own game), which on itself must have come from somewhere...

Fair point; I stand corrected. To be fair, most of those games are racing games and Rage isn't going to have the whole killing-monsters-for-TV as the main premise of the game, but I do concede that the idea has been done to death. My bad.

Having said that, though, there are still main differences between the plots of both MadWorld and Manhunt, as well as the rest of the ones you mentioned. For one, a lot of the ones you listed don't have stories at all (racing games are all racing, sometimes racing-combat, but little-to-no story), or, at best, have a very basic premise that they use to justify the mass slaughter that comes in actual gameplay (I'm thinking Unreal Tournament here). Don't get me wrong, I have as much fun with those games as the next guy (especially Unreal Tournament), but that doesn't mean that they have noteworthy stories.

Debating semantics when it comes to stories is a non-issue, though. As I said in my previous post, generalizing plots into categories like that doesn't help develop story-telling in games. Comparing the story in Manhunt to the very basic premise in Unreal Tournament is about the equivalent of comparing the story in Batman: Arkham Asylum to the premise of Rock Band; one has a deep, compelling story that involves you and draws you into it's world, while the other has a basic premise behind it but does not have a story through actual gameplay. It's just silly to make that comparison.

Daeger:

JC175:
Can't say I can really properly comment on this, as I haven't played the game or its predecessor. But I will say that making the main character a douchebag only works...wait, no, it never works.

No More Heroes

I'll see that and raise you a Far Cry. I wanted to punch Jack Carver in the balls that whole game.

I didn't watch this one because I didn't want the game spoiled. Can someone tell me if the spoilers are minor or major, and tell me if I should read it or not?

"I want to see more of Nathan Drake than a wisecracking bubble that grunts a lot."

Wasn't that Bruce Willis's character John McClane from "Die Hard?" Actually, I WOULD watch a movie about a "wisecracking bubble that grunts a lot."

Haven't had much to say about ZP videos or articles as of yet, but for this one I'll chime in with praise and agreement. Definitely your best article so far for me; maybe it had something to do with the self-conscious decision to not digress several times?

Anywho, nice job on this one.

Yeah Drake is awesome and a great shot and all but I completely agree with Yahtzee. The guys an insufferable twat who thinks that it's OK to murder innocents and scores of people for his own personal gain. The whole killing of some random security guard in the tutorial got to me especially the guy probably had a house, a family and a pet he cared about. Unlike Drake who probably sleeps in hotels and stuffs dollar bills down the throats of dying prostitutes.

You know, I have never played Uncharted or Uncharted 2 but the way you describe Drake, makes me like him. I happen to enjoy the idea of a complete prick who fucks over everyone around himself just getting his way when he should rightly be dropped to the bottom of a ravine somewhere. The injustice of that alone is hilarious to me I guess. I think just by your hatred for him you've somehow endeared me to an otherwise bland, lifeless, character by making him seem so bad, dumb and horrible that he is funny. It reminds me of watching a shittastic action movie where the lead is some big guy who shoots everyone for no apparent reason and at the end wins, but they never really give him any reason to shoot half of them and fail to discuss the millions of laws he has broken and the people/property he has needlessly destroyed for some obscure personal vendetta or gain. I feel like if somehow, in those kinds of stories, someone simply acknowledged this it would make the concept somehow better, though in reality I doubt it would be that simple.

First off I completely disagree with Yahtzee on this one. No big deal, that happens all the time. It's the way he makes Drake look like this cold blooded murderer, in all but one case, every person he meets is trying to kill him, and he's defending himself. That's key here. Granted, one could still argue the ethics of killing others when one's own life is threatened, the worth of these soldier's lives who are so ready to open fire and kill people, etc... but yeah, lots of grey area here.

That's not what I want to talk about though, instead what Yahtzee made me realize is how much I appreciate the characters in Borderlands. There really is no weird disconnect between how they are and what they do. They're crazy assholes, not really much different than the other crazy assholes roaming the wastelands. Now I still like Drake and I think one could argue that his 'murders' are justified (although that one poor guard at the beginning of the game is in my opinion a huge freaking oversight by the developers), that many bodies on your hands has to make you I don't know, at least a little cracked.

I pretty much agree with Yahtzee on everything he said.
Half the time in U2 the game is trying to tell a character driven story and have you care about the good guys but the other half of the time all they're doing is shooting and killing everything they come in to contact with. Even in the stealth level of U2 Drake kills a few of the guards, whether it be via neck snapping or as Yahtzee mentioned pulling them off a ledge. If he's suppose to be the 'likable ladies man' protagonist Naughtydog want him to be why is he killing innocent people while trying to steal shit?

They went to so much trouble to incorporate a stealth mechanic in the game and what do they have the player use it for? more killing. Something as simple as a different sound effect and a few altered animations here and there would have made all the difference in U2.

Uncharted 2 was such a brilliant game, I sure as hell liked it but just like all modern games it is brought down by endless non stop killing. You cant take a game seriously, no matter how well written and acted it supposedly is if it boils down to the same tired old formula. If anything U2 is a perfect example of how far games still have to go story wise if this game is apparently the 'best so far' in that regard.

first of all, i just want to say that i'm a total fanboy for the series and thus everything i say can and probably should be considered a moot point BUT...

i want to point out that about halfway through the adventure, it becomes apparent that what theyre going after is a source of power, and at this point drake's motivation shifts from "gunna git sum treshur and some lulz" to "im gonna stop that war criminal from becoming redonkulously powerful". so he's not a total greedy twit the whole way through.

also as much as i try to hate nate (which is not a lot at all) i just can't. i love his persona and i play the game for the entertainment value.

i would like to point out as well that yahtzee complains about drake being someone motivatied solely by greed and yet he himself made a game ABOUT someone being a total twit and robbing places for pure greed, treasure, and lulz.

KDR_11k:
So how does that stack up with Lara Croft? I mean, we do see some parts of her private life but you still consider her evil.

I think he said in the Uncharted (1) review that they'd make a happy couple.

Yahtzee is just annoying now. These extra punctuation reviews make him seem like a cranky old bastard that tries to hate everything.

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