Twilight of the She-Geeks

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Twilight of the She-Geeks

The sad truth about Twilight's popularity is that it didn't have to happen.

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Interesting read. I've always made a point of disparaging the Twilight franchise purely for the reasons illustrated. I have no issues with women trying to illustrate their fantasies, even if for no other reason than to fill the gaps in a primarily male market. I just have a problem when it's done this poorly.

I consider th notion of fantasizing about a dream guy or girl pathetic and laughable, thats why I don't like twilight's success. Great article I give it a thumbs up :D

I just have a problem because it means I have nothing to talk about to girls I wish to ask out. Yes I'm shallow.

But I hate both sides. I hate it when things for males objectify women and vice versa. It makes me sick that we haven't stepped beyond primitive 'WANT' instinct.

Wow I never really looked at it that way to be honest. I really appreciate the introduction of some perspective on this website. After all any time someone mentions Twilight on this website it usually becomes a flame war... It's interesting to think about it from the oppressed she-geek view. Although I still find it strange that so many High school and college girls are drooling over this series that don't seem like you're typical she-geek. Is it the same principle as romance novels, and that Meyer just figure out how to combine two fan bases into one? Well good article and review all the same it's well done. but is the bleeping necessary?

So what you're trying to say, Bob, is that Jacob = Slave-Leia?

I see it. I agree with it. Twilight is still one of my guilty pleasures.

Well that was extremely insightful. I expect interesting stuff from the escapist but Movie Bob seems to be cornering the market on shifting my world view. I especially like the physics reference "Nature hates a vacuum" to explain the success of twilight. That always baffled me, the success not the fluid dynamics concept.

SEE! THIS IS WHERE DEAD OR ALIVE BEACH VOLLEYBALL HAS LED US! REPENT NOW AND WE MAY YET HALT THE TIDE OF TWILIGHT MOVIES!

Anywho, on a less-end-of-the-world tone, it certainly does explain Twilight alot better than any other theory.

Gxas:
So what you're trying to say, Bob, is that Jacob = Slave-Leia?

I see it. I agree with it. Twilight is still one of my guilty pleasures.

Oh sweet jesus, no. I don't want to see a crap load of nearly nude guys chained to a slug-woman.

Look, female half of the population, we're collectively sorry - we had no idea of the horrors you could unleash on us. Just put the Twilight down and set it on fire and we'll have the makers of the Dead or Alive series and the Ninja Gaiden people put to the torch.

Anywho, is it worth pointing out I've always thought that body armour of female characters looked increasingly silly? Though I also had to think in gears of war "Why on Earth aren't they wearing helmets?" - the explanation of 'easier to see snipers' isn't convincing to me.

Doug:

Gxas:
So what you're trying to say, Bob, is that Jacob = Slave-Leia?

I see it. I agree with it. Twilight is still one of my guilty pleasures.

Oh sweet jesus, no. I don't want to see a crap load of nearly nude guys chained to a slut-woman.

What has been pointed out cannot be un-remembered... Something to that effect...

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

As I said in one of the other threads, there is SO much better female-viewed male objectification pr0n. Laurrell K Hamilton made a career off the back (pun intended) of Anita Blake and Meredith Gentry.

Many of the historical romances have deep raging within those bustling corsets whether straight or lesbian (Tipping the Velvet?), and novels that Twilight etc. are based on (Jane Eyre, Wuthering Heights, Pride and Prejudice) have deeply shallow male characters that are feckless idiots until they get caught by the right woman.

That's the point about Twilight, there's so much BETTER shallow fluff around. A friend of mine recommends Georgette Heyer quite highly.

Edit: While Sean Connery in Zardoz doesn't count, surely Gil Gerard in Buck Rogers in the 25th Century does? While the males were ogling Erin Grey, I seem to remember his suits being awfully tight...and that's without mentioning Burt Ward in the original Batman...

I agree. Bad art is just bad art. I don't like it when it's aimed at men like me, and no more so when its the other way around.

But like you said. It's selling tainted water to people dying of thirst in the desert.

Although I have seen worse movies.

The root of all evil beat me to it, but my wife swore Laurel K Hamilton as far as her (her words) mental masturbation author, even though for a while there she thought even Anita went off the deep end.

Most of the Paranomral Romance stuff has become kind of rote, but as long as there are buyers for authors who sell sexy Vampires and Werewolves fighting over a woman it will keep coming. Meyer's claim to fame is not so much that she tapped into the genre, but rather that she made a "teen" series that fed off the Genre that started to gain momentum right around the time Harry Potter was wrapping up. She managed to hitch onto the gravy train of a generation of teens that had just learned reading was fun.

I don't like it because its a terrible series obviously made for girls and no one else, I don't need movies do help.

You know...you've got a point.

I mean, I think Twilight is ridiculous and I would never read it...but I hadn't thought about that. It's the objectification of men, which men have been doing to women for ages. It's generally a social construct that men objectify women; and is, therefore, acceptable, and that women do not objectify men, so it is hardly even recognized. Twilight is a perfect example. All I had thought about was that Bella was useless and pathetic and her 'relationship' was supremely unrealistic....I hadn't even recognized the objectification.

That's interesting. Thank you for pointing that out.

Good read. But....

image

That was quite a mirror you were holding there.

I do kinda like how Twilight is taking the wind out of Harry Potter's sails.
Al of a sudden the tween girls don't give a sh*t about Harry anymore.

Always try to make the best out of a bad situation.

Twilight is Star Wars for girls.

One little problem with your juxtaposition Bob. If Edward and Jacob are the shallow beef(veggie?)cakes, why is Bella still wetter than a puddle and only half as deep?

Well I think everyone realized at some point that Twilight was a clever way of selling sex to teenage girls without actually directly referring to it but nice article about how it objectify men.

Well even though I've said that Twilight is utter shite in real life (And probaley on here as well.) I've never seen it or New Moon. Simply because it's a film/s I won't like from a single glance from the trailer. It's only a film, there's others I like instead.

Gxas:

Doug:

Gxas:
So what you're trying to say, Bob, is that Jacob = Slave-Leia?

I see it. I agree with it. Twilight is still one of my guilty pleasures.

Oh sweet jesus, no. I don't want to see a crap load of nearly nude guys chained to a slut-woman.

What has been pointed out cannot be un-remembered... Something to that effect...

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Gah, freudian typo. Slug. Actually, a slut woman might be alright...hmmm....

historybuff:
You know...you've got a point.

I mean, I think Twilight is ridiculous and I would never read it...but I hadn't thought about that. It's the objectification of men, which men have been doing to women for ages. It's generally a social construct that men objectify women; and is, therefore, acceptable, and that women do not objectify men, so it is hardly even recognized. Twilight is a perfect example. All I had thought about was that Bella was useless and pathetic and her 'relationship' was supremely unrealistic....I hadn't even recognized the objectification.

That's interesting. Thank you for pointing that out.

Actually, men are objectified just as much as women are. In different ways though. And how many girls out there watched a movie just to see a guy?

axia777:
Good read. But....

image

Suddenly, I have the urge to write a cross over 'fan'-fiction.

AkJay:
Twilight is Star Wars for girls.

Star Wars is lightyears [pun intended] ahead o.O

AkJay:
Twilight is Star Wars for girls.

Do not even compare the two, EVAR. That is a sin against everything geek.

Doug:

axia777:
Good read. But....

image

Suddenly, I have the urge to write a cross over 'fan'-fiction.

Please do and post it after you are done.

The_root_of_all_evil:
One little problem with your juxtaposition Bob. If Edward and Jacob are the shallow beef(veggie?)cakes, why is Bella still wetter than a puddle and only half as deep?

Because its a strange oddity that alot of tween girls think that that kind of woman is romantic. Same as alot of tween boys thing Gears of War style gruffness is mannily in real life.

Seriously, I wouldn't care if it paraded the men around in their swim trunks and all they ever did was engage in erotic foreplay with each other.

Setphanie Meyer is at best a writer of awful self-insert vampire fanfiction, and at worst the incarnation of the devil. I reserve for her the same condemnation I would for any terrible writer. I think many of the 60/70/80s sci fi movies are ridiculous pieces of crap, and not even the frolicking of semi-naked alien chicks can make it better.

Same but inverted gender for Twilight. It's trash, nothing more.

CrysisMcGee:

historybuff:
You know...you've got a point.

I mean, I think Twilight is ridiculous and I would never read it...but I hadn't thought about that. It's the objectification of men, which men have been doing to women for ages. It's generally a social construct that men objectify women; and is, therefore, acceptable, and that women do not objectify men, so it is hardly even recognized. Twilight is a perfect example. All I had thought about was that Bella was useless and pathetic and her 'relationship' was supremely unrealistic....I hadn't even recognized the objectification.

That's interesting. Thank you for pointing that out.

Actually, men are objectified just as much as women are. In different ways though. And how many girls out there watched a movie just to see a guy?

Yes, but it isn't really socially recognized. The social construct is that, in general, women don't (because we are pegged as being 'emotional and not thinking as sexually as men do') and so, yes, Orlando Bloom will be in a movie and all the teenage girls will go see the movie because of it but it isn't recognized in the same way that companies will dress their females in movies and video games as scantily as possible to appeal to their male audience.

I'm not saying that men aren't objectified at all--I'm just saying it isn't recognized in the same way as when women are objectified.

Doug:

The_root_of_all_evil:
One little problem with your juxtaposition Bob. If Edward and Jacob are the shallow beef(veggie?)cakes, why is Bella still wetter than a puddle and only half as deep?

Because its a strange oddity that alot of tween girls think that that kind of woman is romantic. Same as alot of tween boys thing Gears of War style gruffness is mannily in real life.

But Jane Eyre, Catherine Earnshaw, Elizabeth Bennet and even Juliet Capulet had more...I hate to say it - ovaries...than Bella.
(What is the female descriptor for guts?)

"It was dawning on me, then, that myself and every other male geek currently rolling our eyes at the laughably-obvious, pandering sexual-objectification of these "Playgirl werewolves" had at many times throughout our geek-existence been confronted (or, at least, needled) by our she-geek female compatriots about the laughably-obvious, pandering sexual-objectification of...well, damn near every depiction of the female form in geek culture."

By gods you are right! This bring to to mind this girl I like that is in love with traditional Sci-Fi and Twilight. I now understand how repressive geek culture has been to her kind.

I've always got along fine that many girls don't like our kind of Sci-Fi. Now to think we're making fun of their Sci-Fi.....

I think I am going to read those Twilight books.

The_root_of_all_evil:

Doug:

The_root_of_all_evil:
One little problem with your juxtaposition Bob. If Edward and Jacob are the shallow beef(veggie?)cakes, why is Bella still wetter than a puddle and only half as deep?

Because its a strange oddity that alot of tween girls think that that kind of woman is romantic. Same as alot of tween boys thing Gears of War style gruffness is mannily in real life.

But Jane Eyre, Catherine Earnshaw, Elizabeth Bennet and even Juliet Capulet had more...I hate to say it - ovaries...than Bella.
(What is the female descriptor for guts?)

Yes, but bare in mind the attitude of the typical tween - most old stuff == yawn, new stuff == OMG, ITS SO AAAAAAAWESUM!!!1!!!!11

Hell knows, I had a watered down version of that myself. Its just what we go through as people on the route of growing up.

Geez. George Lucas writes one part of the movie where Princess Leia waits 15mins before killing dudes, and it comes back to haunt us. Can we all at least remember that Leia used the chain to strangle the fat man-slug. That has to symbolize something, right?

AkJay:
Twilight is Star Wars for girls.

This. Twilight fangirls are acting pretty much the same way I was four years ago...

And when you think about it, it's not that bad of a thing. Bad girl geekdom is better than no girl geekdom. Before Twilight no-one was even trying. True, there won't be much room for tries within the next few years, but at least now people know there is a market for these sorts of things. And let's face it, we need more geek-girls.

MovieBob:

Irregardless of what you might think of me (if you've even read any of my stuff) I have a great deal of respect for you, but I think your a little off here on some of this.

Men and women aren't THAT differant when you get down to it. A lot of the Twilight images you've seen look like gay porn because on a lot of levels that is what they are. Women get off on that kind of thing the same way dudes get off on lesbians. It's a heavy subtext in a lot of the Paranormal romance stuff directed at women.

To put things into perspective there are plenty of images of erotic images of men directed at women. If you take a walk over a few aisles from the Sci-Fi/Fantasy/comics/RPing stuff in your local Waldenbooks you'll find the "chicks section" where they keep all the romance novels. Harlequins, etc... all of which feature pictures of attractive men in various erotic (though not overtly pornographic) poses with women, none of whom seem especially gay. Fabio (who is not aging gracefully apparently) became famous for posing for this kind of artwork, and allegedly Antonio Banderas did also before his film career. You'll also find artists like Julie Bell who draw all these perfectly formed guys without making them jump off the page as "wow, that's flaming".

Now, I'm not a photographer, but there is an artwork to that kind of thing that can make a picture say things without saying them. Use of light, color, lenses, whatever, but a good artist or photographer can convey a certain flavor of sexuality without being blatent about it. However it was done, those Twilight promotions ARE flaming. I get the same kind of impression from a lot of them, and honestly it's not some kind of discomfort due to the objectification of men or whatever because again I an look at artwork by guys like Frank Frazetta or Boris Valejo [SP] without getting the same impression. Ditto for other guys like say Van Damme showing off their awesome builds in photos for movies (well when they did movies like that which were good enough to actually see posters produced).

I tend to see it as the same thing when you take a couple of actresses and have them crawl over each other in a suggestive fashion or strike a suggestive pose which has nothing to do with the characters they play. The characters aren't lesbians but you as a guy are supposed to get that vibe. This is the same thing, and it's just shot that way, but in the opposite direction. You couldn't take a Frazetta picture of Conan or a Fabio shot and have it "pass" for the cover of a gay porn movie, but you COULD do that with some of the Twilight pics.

Just my thoughts, apologies about the length. I won't go off about fantasy art in general since this is long already. I just wanted to pretty much say that I don't think you or your friends are alone in getting that vibe, but at the same time I don't think anything is being projected onto that. Men have been as objectified as women if you know where to look and those promotions are stylized in a very specific way.

axia777:

AkJay:
Twilight is Star Wars for girls.

Do not even compare the two, EVAR. That is a sin against everything geek.

Doug:

axia777:
Good read. But....

Suddenly, I have the urge to write a cross over 'fan'-fiction.

Please do and post it after you are done.

Blade sneaked up behind the Vampire, feet carefully positioned each step of the way to avoid twigs. A false step made a light crackle in the pre-dawn air and Blade froze, hand on his sword. Fortunately, the whiny kid and the wet girl where too busy angst chatter with "Love waits" overtones.

He moved slowly, creeping closer and closer. About 1 metre away from the 'happy' couple, the dawn broke and the kid sparkled. "What the FUCK", thought Blade, "He should be in FLAMES, damnit."

Out loud, he said, "Fuck it" and cut the sparkly whiners head off.

Then the puddle girl attacked! With wave upon wave of passive aggressive whining, Blade felt his mind turning to goo. "FUCK" he shouted and fell to the ground, trying deseperately to lift the blade, "Die damnit, dieeeee!"

Just then, a giant train of a wolf came through the forest and turned into a topless bronze boy with 60 abs, "Oh, how terrible, looks like he's dead. Let me comfort you, my puddly girl"

This was deseperate. Blade could feel himself sinking into a tween 'romance' 'novel'. With his last ounces of strength, he pulled out a grenade, and popped the pin....

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