Going Gold: The Self-Fulfilling Prophecy

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anyone consider that maybe Nintendo should get off their money printers and high horses and make a WiiHD They have enough money to do so and probably even do it better! <.< Seriously, something with the same graphical prowess as both the 360 and PS3 would certainly attract the AAA titles

Everyone always say that graphics don't mean anything if the gameplay is good. I say that is bullsh!t. I know for one if i had a choice between the HD version or a SD version of a game i'm going for the one with more polygons.

Anyone who owns a HD console or an excellent PC rig can attest to the pit of your stomach feel when you lay eyes on how bad everything looks on the Wii. Yes your head is saying its a Wii game so you cant expect the same graphics, but you still get that feeling that your looking at something dated. Don't lie I KNOW you all have that feeling! The fact you have to conscientiously lower your expectations when talking about the Wii is proof enough! XD

Also release a Standard Controller that isnt the Wiimote. You know the one that everyone was comfortable with directly before the Wii and paint it white to match. <.<

OMG EA BAILED OUT OF THE WII MARKET!!

So what?

The WII didnt magicaly turn into smoke when they bailed out. And the WII still is the console that selled the most between the three. DS even more. That tells a lot about what the consumers want.

Lower Quality games? Maybe in graphics. The WII not being the most powerfull console. But gameplay doesnt care how much CPU power you have.

And given the choice, i prefer No-HD games that have fun gameplay to a HD-ubergraphic-overhype that is boring.
And so far, the WII didnt disapoint me. Its a truck of fun with the family and friends, since everyone can get in easily.

You know, Sean Malstrom predicted this exact situation almost 2 years ago: Third-party companies trying to capitalize on Nintendo's success with minimal effort, and then blaming Nintendo and abandoning their systems when their low-quality games fail. Dead Space Extraction is the exception here, because it had decent quality but EA failed to even acknowledge the game's existence so it never really had a chance to shine. However, Maltsrom's predictions weren't so bleak for the Wii; he basically said the only people who would really take the fall in the end are the companies who continue this nonsensical "core values" practice. With any hope, Monster Hunter Tri and Disney Epic Mickey will be the slap in the face that these developers need, and there's plenty of reason to suggest that they both will.

The same argument applies for No More Heroes, MadWorld, The Conduit, and most other games that are supposed to have proven there is no hardcore audience on the Wii - these all seem like games that would have little chance on the HD consoles to begin with.

This is a point I feel that a lot of gamers just don't get when it comes to these games: As much as they didn't sell on Wii, there's no way they would have done any better on the HD systems. All of these games were made on relatively low budgets and were never meant to be blockbuster hits. The only place a game like that can make a profit is on the Wii, and all of these games did make profits. Suda51 was ecstatic with how well No More Heroes did (He has nothing to do with the PS360 port), and SEGA was reportedly pleased with MadWorld and The Conduit's overall sales. If these games were on the HD systems, they would be financial failures due to the increased cost of developing games in HD.

NickCaligo42:

squid5580:
And yet no mention about the fact that Dead Space came out first on the 360/PS3 so anyone who wants the full story needs to be a multi console owner.

Yeah, it's really baffling whenever developers make a tie-in game that's exclusive to the dead opposite console. See Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories. :\

And then wonder why it doesn't sell very well.

There's a whole force against the Wii right now. Suda51 was ecstatic, as mentioned above, at the sales of No More Heroes. He didn't even expect it to sell like it did, so for them it was a huge success. However, it's marketing was only slightly better than nothing, being exposed strictly to us hardcore geeks on the Internet.

Since then, a lot of people have traded in their systems because "it's not hardcore enough". Though still, players are a major problem. EVERYONE I knew was excited for MadWorld, though I was skeptical. It was bloody and looked different, but I wasn't sure about the gameplay. Yet every single person I knew that had been so hyped for it did not buy it. It's initial sales were the direct result of gamers. I got it through GameFly later and found it to be one of the better third party efforts, but not great. Mushroom Men was short but I found it to be quite fun and very imaginative, yet it also sold relatively poorly. Deadly Creatures would have been better if all the levels focused on the Tarantula since the Scorpion's maps sucked. Dead Space: Extraction is on my Christmas list.

Yet no matter what gamers are going to choose something on the 360 before the Wii. Of course, you're right in that a lot of that has to do with the developers. As stated, those 3rd party offerings are good, but not great. As fun as a title like Battalion Wars 2 is, it lacks the adrenaline rush that most games on the 360 or PS3 have. This is nothing to say of the fact that most fighting games on the system suck with the Wiimote and Nunchuck. Smash Bros. Brawl, TMNT: Smash-Up and the latest Naruto Clash of Ninja game are all fun with a GameCube controller, but switch to the Wiimote and Nunchuck and control becomes lousy and awkward. This isn't a fault of the system, but a fault of developers trying to make a traditional game ported to a new control scheme. Changes must be made to the genre for it to work.

Some games throw in motion control when they don't need to. Dragon Blade was complete shit because it tried to make every attack based on a way you swung the Wiimote. I was happy as Hell when No More Heroes was a button mash until the finishing move. I think that's primarily what made it so fun.

Yet when developers COULD make great games with the motion control, they didn't. The first time I played Wii Sports and saw the baseball bat line up with how I held the Wiimote, my mind went to Morrowind in first person view. Imagine playing Morrowind where the sword followed your every move, allowing you to hack and slash, while the Nunchuck controlled your shield or spell-hand. Yet there has never been such an RPG released.

And I bring Morrowind up for good reason. People still play previous generation games such as Morrowind, Halo, God of War, Final Fantasy X/XIII and they still have fun. The Conduit was such a disappointment because the A.I. was beyond lame. It just wasn't fun to play the game. How can you not give the title the same care that Halo 1 had gotten with A.I.? Or even work around it by offering design? Whether you think Halo's A.I. is over-rated or not, the variety of enemies and weapons allows the game a wide range of play options. The Jackal's shield acts differently than the Elite's, the Grunts are best handled with different weapons than the other foes and the Hunter must be struck in its exposed back. The placement of these enemies in a single room provided a large amount of tactical thinking. Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath was a fantastic title that focused on having different styles of weaponry instead of super-smart-A.I.

Where are the developers trying to think like that? These are not recent and innovative concepts to designing a video game, these have existed since before the NES. If you develop a game that's going to be nothing but "me shoot things that shoot back", you'd BETTER have studied the A.I. and other aspects placed into level design and additional factors put into Call of Duty.

Silent Hill: Shattered Memories was mentioned earlier. I agree that the game will likely fail simply because of a lack of marketing. No one knows about it, few probably even know what it is. Yet I guarantee you if someone put a commercial out for it like everyone sees for Halo: ODST, Dragon Age or even Bioshock's from 2007, people will say "hey, THAT looks interesting". Of course, even then the game may not be accessible to casual players. I can't imagine handing my sister, father or mother the controls to Resident Evil 4 and them having a good time. It's simply too damn hard. Once again, Halo was great because the Normal difficulty was easy. If you wanted a challenge you played Heroic or higher. However, there were basically two levels of casual difficulty so anyone could drop in and play. The Wii needs games that have that sort of design.

Lastly, Journalists. Every Wii review score seems to have a point or two knocked off simply because it's a Wii game. This is lame and retarded.

Let's think about this for a second. Look at the Nintendo DS. Third parties have not abandoned it, and have in fact put honest effort into making good games for the system. As a result, both first and third parties sell well on it. Can't that same mentality be put to the Wii? Why must it be viewed so differently because it's an "under-powered" console?

Bet you a dollar Epic Mickey won't do fantastically ^^. I've got the perfect example to prove or disprove your point. If Modern Warfare: Reflex doesn't sell, which is graphically the highest quality game so far seen and uses the most famous "hardcore" brand, then their is no market on the Wii.

The issue is that the hardcore gamers are now used to a quality of game that the Wii can't provide, because Wii gamers haven't been converted into hardcore gamers non of the excitement or hype reaches them. It's TV ads or nothing. To make a quality game costs more and it's been proven so far that the lower budget games that spend more on the advertising, do better. If it comes down to advertising why spend on quality? The only reason to spend on quality is to improve the platform and the only people with real interest in that are Nintendo, for developers it just means they have to spend more money, Nintendo have shown no interest in doing that.

Besides all this, the Wii's control system is just limited. Some of the very best games on the Wii just play better on an old style controller (super smash brothers is a case in point). Nintendo chose their route and now they're stuck with it.

ThisNewGuy:
If we do consider the Wii as a gaming machine that has captured the casual audience and the mainstream but failed to convert these mainstream audience with solid hardcore games, I still don't think Wii is the right platform for this task. I don't think hardcore games are proven to work with the Wii waggle controls, which is why I think that PS3 and 360 would be more suited for hardcore games. Personally, I don't want to play hardcore games with a waggle and a balance board. I prefer sitting on a couch, and pushing buttons.

Yeah, which is why I mentioned that buttons and analog sticks are still the best for most games. Some games do implement motion controls right, like Cursed Mountain, but most ruin the gaming experience. The fact that most developers, and Nintendo included to some degree, don't give players an option to control the game with the classic controller is absolutely retarded. Nintendo should have packaged the classic controller with the system to encourage developers to support it more. It's a really great controller and I have no idea why developers don't create more traditional games that take advantage of it.

In the end, I think developers just need to dive in and make cool games that don't focus on motion controls for the sake of motion controls. Besides, what happened to the RPGs? The only thing that's saving the Wii for core gamers is the Virtual Console... and it fully supports the classic controller, interestingly enough.

It's not just third party devs. Nintendo has shown little interest in making their own games and let this flood of shovelware and cheap mini game collections bury it. That says to me that they see the Wii as a fad as well. And if the company that made the console isn't going to show any interest in it then why should third party devs?

Edit: BTW I'm not a 360/PS3 fanboy (I don't own a PS3) and not just hating on it. This is honestly how I feel. I bought a Wii back when LoZ:TP and MP3 were new. I thought they were great and expected Ninty to keep the awesome games comming. But I literally haven't bought a single Wii game (or even played it) for over a year. But I've bought at least one 360 game a month. Again I'm not hating....just disappointed.

1. the wii is NOT failing
2. why should we even care if it did?

This is a very interesting article, although I wonder if it overlooks some of the disadvantages the Wii has. The interface is unusual and most games that require some kind of extra part to play, or significantly shift what the interface is, have trouble. As casual as the Wii may be, the kinds of games it can really support with its controls is actually limited (and, from what I can tell, frequently boosted by more controllers-guns, steering wheels, balancing boards).

That is to say; the Wii can do certain kinds of games very well-and that they reach out to a broader audience is a good thing. But when you want to play the more traditional games, there's a blockade due to 1) different controller interfaces and 2) a machine that isn't as powerful as its contemporaries. This is actually a stumbling block because now a new player has to spend more money to play with their new friends and so instead of being included they're cut out.

The case is quite more complicated than some are thinking. I believe that Nintendo would do great success if the door to the occasional ground-breaker was left open. However, what happened to the long-awaited Fatal Frame VI? Nintendo decided it would not release it in the United States! The most anticipated "hardcore" Wii game of the time would never officially reach American or European shores.

Personally, however, I think that this conversation is moot. Everyone likes different consoles, and those who like certain consoles will say that the others are useless and stupid. This conversation has slipped into a console war debate, and enough is enough. I have never been disappointed with the Wii as a whole. No matter what reviews things get, no matter how "trivial" the game is, I have fun with my friends playing Dance Dance Revolution, Rayman Raving Rabbids, Mario Party, Elebits, Trauma Center, and Animal Crossing. And I have just as much fun romping around in Arkham Asylum or slitting throats as Altair. I'm not a "casual" gamer, but I enjoy a variety of games, especially ones that I can play with friends.

Personally, I don't believe 3rd party developers have given up the ghost just yet. Atlus has already announced the next installment of the Trauma Center series on the Wii, entitled "Trauma Team," that will have all kinds of different styles of gameplay from the previous games. Konami continues to be a staunch supporter of the platform with "Silent Hill: Shattered Memories," and continuing the "Dance Dance Revolution Hottest Party" franchise on the platform. I don't think the Wii is dead in the water. However, Nintendo has to take some more of the opportunities offered to it.

squid5580:

NickCaligo42:

squid5580:
And yet no mention about the fact that Dead Space came out first on the 360/PS3 so anyone who wants the full story needs to be a multi console owner.

Yeah, it's really baffling whenever developers make a tie-in game that's exclusive to the dead opposite console. See Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories. :\

And then wonder why it doesn't sell very well.

KH: CoM isn't a good example there, though. That game did sell about around a million out of the gate and considering the type of game and its platform, that's nothing to scoff at.

BrotherRool:
Bet you a dollar Epic Mickey won't do fantastically ^^. I've got the perfect example to prove or disprove your point. If Modern Warfare: Reflex doesn't sell, which is graphically the highest quality game so far seen and uses the most famous "hardcore" brand, then their is no market on the Wii.

I don't think it's fair to use Modern Warfare Reflex as a way to measure Disney Epic Mickey's potential success. Reflex is a downport of a two-year-old game originally available for HD systems (albeit a pretty good downport, from what I hear.) Epic Mickey, on the other hand, is a large-scale original project backed by a very powerful company and designed by a man with a very impressive track record. Disney would be insane not to market this game like crazy. Activision, on the other hand, has seen fit to not even acknowledge Reflex's existence yet, as they took down several videos showcasing the gameplay just days before it was released.

But then again, the Wii version of Call of Duty: World at War managed to sell over a million copies, so your example is rendered null and void anyway.

Aurgelmir:
My biggest beef with the Wii is the same beef I have with the hand helds:
The graphics sucks. And the Wii looks horrible on an HD TV.
















I'm so glad you've completely changed my stance on graphics, and now actually look forward to a fully 3D Sonic game, which will in no way be shit!

There's a game called Epic Mickey? That's brilliant.

Allow me to explain, in Irish slang "mickey" means "penis". To me a game called Epic Mickey is pretty much just as funny as a game called Epic Cock.

All that can be said has been said. Now we must act.

Go out, make gaming sociable, don't snob casual gamers, and make ourselves appear presentable.

Nah, too much fucking work. No other medium has to try this hard. I'm gonna play games in my room and not shower...

Chipperz:

Aurgelmir:
My biggest beef with the Wii is the same beef I have with the hand helds:
The graphics sucks. And the Wii looks horrible on an HD TV.
















I'm so glad you've completely changed my stance on graphics, and now actually look forward to a fully 3D Sonic game, which will in no way be shit!

I'm not old enough to remember but, for example, wasn't Final Fantasy 7 really good looking when it came out. Which is what helped it become so great. Whereas some games on the Wii now do have good gameplay but are completely let down by lacking in the graphics department.

After reading the article (and a LOT of comments) I still can't help but feel the Wiis' failure of quality 3rd party product rests mainly on Nintendo.

I don't want to write a full essay here, so I'll just summarize. When RE4, a multiple GOTY winner with tremendous buzz around it everywhere it goes is just good enough to hit ONE million sold on a console with an install base of (40 million?) then something is wrong. Nintendo ha cultivated a market on their own console to actively stunt its hardcore reputation with the causals.

Metroid 3 sold less than half what Metroid 2 did because Nintendo refused to support their own game as it might taint the Wiis' image of "casual and friendly." So when they let their OWN hardcore property fall flat how can people blame the failure of other games like Madworld, Okami and Zach and Wiki on 3rd parties?

And wait/ Blaming 3rd parties???? Are you kidding me??? Lets all go back a few years and remember the Wii as a HUGE risk, totally unproven, having a dumbshit name, and having processing power just of a GameCube. Nobody was sure what to do. But 3rd parties supported it from day 1, jumping on and announcing multiple titles. And now this writer says it's their lack of belief. Nintendo lost the two previous generations for 3rd party content, RE4 first came out on the GC and sold around 300 000 copies. Are we blaming that on Capcom?

Microsoft actively supported it's 3rd party partners at the launch of the 360, helping them get their games up to snuff and we say 3rd party stuff be some of the best launch games for the system (COD2, Condemned, DOA4 etc) because that is you make something a success. Then you can look at Wii 3rd party launch games and see... Red Steel, which was so cosmically clumsy it's amazing people played it at all.

So yea, TOTALLY their own fault right. The blame rests on Nintendo and the Nintendo hardcore who absolutely refuse to take a risk with their money.

de Blob - failed
No More Hero's - is 200 000 copies a fail?
Dead Space: Extraction - failed
Muramasa - failed
Excitebots: Trick Racing - failed
Zach and Wiki - failed
Madworld -failed
Okami - failed
World of Goo - failed (as far as I know)

And hey, that's pretty much every 3rd party game on IGN's Top 25 Wii games.

As much as maybe a couple of these broke even/slim profit, ALL OF THEM FAILED because their sales failed to demonstrate that a truly high budget game would garner any kind of worthwhile profit from the audience. And audience who seems totally unwilling to buy fucking anything that doesn't have Mario in it.

sarcastic:
So yea, TOTALLY their own fault right. The blame rests on Nintendo and the Nintendo hardcore who absolutely refuse to take a risk with their money.

de Blob - failed
No More Hero's - is 200 000 copies a fail?
Dead Space: Extraction - failed
Muramasa - failed
Excitebots: Trick Racing - failed
Zach and Wiki - failed
Madworld -failed
Okami - failed
World of Goo - failed (as far as I know)

And hey, that's pretty much every 3rd party game on IGN's Top 25 Wii games.

As much as maybe a couple of these broke even/slim profit, ALL OF THEM FAILED because their sales failed to demonstrate that a truly high budget game would garner any kind of worthwhile profit from the audience. And audience who seems totally unwilling to buy fucking anything that doesn't have Mario in it.

I don't want to critique your whole post right now, so I'll just comment on this part: These games were not failures in any aspect. They may not have sold well in comparison to Modern Warfare 2 or Wii Fit, but they definitely sold enough to be worthwhile. And you have to keep in mind that any game breaking over a million units sold, regardless of platform, is no small task.

De Blob is currently hovering around 750k sold, and considering that I haven't seen any real marketing for it, I'd say that's a damn good accomplishment. No More Heroes is slowly creeping towards 500k sold (way more than what you stated) and that's more than enough to make Suda51 jump around in pure joy, and Marvelous/Ubisoft wouldn't be backing NMH2 if they didn't make money off the first one. Dead Space Extraction is the only real exception here because EA failed to even acknowledge the game's existence, but, as the article says, that game was almost doomed to not sell even with proper marketing. Vanillaware's happy with Muramasa's current sales. Excitebots is in the same boat as Extraction. Zack & Wiki likely sold enough to please Capcom. MadWorld definitely sold enough to please SEGA (it was fairly low-budget). Okami sold better on Wii than it did on PS2 (even if that doesn't say much). World of Goo is a tricky one, as it's hard to gauge how well downloadable titles sell, but I've seen it listed under "popular titles" in the Wii Shop Channel, so I'd wager 2D Boy made a decent profit off it.

The only way these games can be considered failures is if you compared them to games like Modern Warfare 2 that sells millions in their first few weeks, and that's not a fair comparison because those games are in entirely different leagues. Which brings me to you last point of them failing to demonstrate that high-budget Wii games can sell. The thing with this is that none of the games you listed had a particularly high-budget. These games were not meant to be AAA blockbuster hits, and expecting them to sell like one - especially niche titles like MadWorld and Muramasa - is just unfair. Really, the only big-budget third party Wii game we can accurately use here is Monster Hunter Tri, and that game has almost sold a million copies in Japan already (there's only 8 million Wii's sold there, which is still miles ahead of the other two systems).

It could be that publishers are over specialized and their failure to make money from the Wii while Nintendo are making a fortune is pretty damning evidence. Nintendo changed strategy but not in some mystical way that is impossible to follow.

It's like, New Super Mario Brother on DS sold a staggering amount so what did the rest of the industry do in response? Did Sega make New 2D Sonic for Wii? Did Ubisoft get Michel Ancel to make a premium 2D Rayman game for the Wii to tie in with all their other Rayman games? Did they hell.

Mr. Fister:

sarcastic:
So yea, TOTALLY their own fault right. The blame rests on Nintendo and the Nintendo hardcore who absolutely refuse to take a risk with their money.

de Blob - failed
No More Hero's - is 200 000 copies a fail?
Dead Space: Extraction - failed
Muramasa - failed
Excitebots: Trick Racing - failed
Zach and Wiki - failed
Madworld -failed
Okami - failed
World of Goo - failed (as far as I know)

And hey, that's pretty much every 3rd party game on IGN's Top 25 Wii games.

As much as maybe a couple of these broke even/slim profit, ALL OF THEM FAILED because their sales failed to demonstrate that a truly high budget game would garner any kind of worthwhile profit from the audience. And audience who seems totally unwilling to buy fucking anything that doesn't have Mario in it.

I don't want to critique your whole post right now, so I'll just comment on this part: These games were not failures in any aspect. They may not have sold well in comparison to Modern Warfare 2 or Wii Fit, but they definitely sold enough to be worthwhile. And you have to keep in mind that any game breaking over a million units sold, regardless of platform, is no small task.

De Blob is currently hovering around 750k sold, and considering that I haven't seen any real marketing for it, I'd say that's a damn good accomplishment. No More Heroes is slowly creeping towards 500k sold (way more than what you stated) and that's more than enough to make Suda51 jump around in pure joy, and Marvelous/Ubisoft wouldn't be backing NMH2 if they didn't make money off the first one. Dead Space Extraction is the only real exception here because EA failed to even acknowledge the game's existence, but, as the article says, that game was almost doomed to not sell even with proper marketing. Vanillaware's happy with Muramasa's current sales. Excitebots is in the same boat as Extraction. Zack & Wiki likely sold enough to please Capcom. MadWorld definitely sold enough to please SEGA (it was fairly low-budget). Okami sold better on Wii than it did on PS2 (even if that doesn't say much). World of Goo is a tricky one, as it's hard to gauge how well downloadable titles sell, but I've seen it listed under "popular titles" in the Wii Shop Channel, so I'd wager 2D Boy made a decent profit off it.

The only way these games can be considered failures is if you compared them to games like Modern Warfare 2 that sells millions in their first few weeks, and that's not a fair comparison because those games are in entirely different leagues. Which brings me to you last point of them failing to demonstrate that high-budget Wii games can sell. The thing with this is that none of the games you listed had a particularly high-budget. These games were not meant to be AAA blockbuster hits, and expecting them to sell like one - especially niche titles like MadWorld and Muramasa - is just unfair. Really, the only big-budget third party Wii game we can accurately use here is Monster Hunter Tri, and that game has almost sold a million copies in Japan already (there's only 8 million Wii's sold there, which is still miles ahead of the other two systems).

Hmm, well I'm glad I was wrong with my numbers. I don't have exact ones, I just remember back to their first couple of months of sales and extrapolate what I can.

Where do you get your sales numbers? How do you know No More Hero's did as well as it did?

In any case, I'm glad some of those guys are making money. It doesn't change my view especially. So, to continue to argue: they are not failures only in comparison to COD and Halo, they are failures to things like Mirrors Edge, Demon Souls, Civilization Revolution, Prince of Persia 08, every single Nintendo owned property as well as a huge list of XBLA games.

And if they made money: awesome. But that doesn't mean they disprove the symptomatic problem with Nintendo's consoles. These are most of the best 3rd party games on the Wii and not one has reached a million sold? Not a single one? (Other than RE4, but even that is kinda sad if you ask me)

And all anyone blames is the lack of marketing on Dead Spaces' failure. I seem to remember gaming sites being plastered with adds and it was being talked about wherever I went. There may not have been TV adds but come on, the people who buy Dead Space are on gaming sites or are told to buy it from people who go on gaming sites. I mean hell, Rock Revolution sold 3000 copies and it was well over $100, had no adds and everyone knew it was a joke.

I work at a game store and not once, not a SINGLE TIME have I been asked for any of the following titles:

Dead Space: Extraction, Muramasa, Excitebots, Zach and Wiki, Madworld

People keep talking about "the hardcore audience on Wii" and I'm starting to doubt if there is one. What do they play? How long can Smash Bro's keep you going? Everyone was nuts about Excite Trucks but when Excite Bots comes out and everyone is praising it for being SO much better than it's former, it flops. And THOUGH it may have been lower budget for a 360/PS3 game, it was not low budget for a Wii game. Just like Dead Space, just like Okami, just like Madworld. Hell, New Super Mario bro's was probably a dirk cheap game to make, and as if Wii Sports Resort cost more than a bucket of bolts to throw together?

Evey game on the Wii is low budget save for Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess. So don't go blaming 3rd parties for not pouring in money when Nintendo sells multiple millions of a Mario Soccer remake and Wii Sports 2: It Actually Works This Time Edition

ok, I'm done ranting, your turn.

DTWolfwood:
anyone consider that maybe Nintendo should get off their money printers and high horses and make a WiiHD They have enough money to do so and probably even do it better! <.< Seriously, something with the same graphical prowess as both the 360 and PS3 would certainly attract the AAA titles

Everyone always say that graphics don't mean anything if the gameplay is good. I say that is bullsh!t. I know for one if i had a choice between the HD version or a SD version of a game i'm going for the one with more polygons.

Anyone who owns a HD console or an excellent PC rig can attest to the pit of your stomach feel when you lay eyes on how bad everything looks on the Wii. Yes your head is saying its a Wii game so you cant expect the same graphics, but you still get that feeling that your looking at something dated. Don't lie I KNOW you all have that feeling! The fact you have to conscientiously lower your expectations when talking about the Wii is proof enough! XD

Also release a Standard Controller that isnt the Wiimote. You know the one that everyone was comfortable with directly before the Wii and paint it white to match. <.<

I don't think making a Wii HD will solve Nintendo's problems. If they release a follow-up to Wii too soon, they'll be stuck in the same situation now. Microsoft and Sony will release new consoles that are a lot more powerful than Wii 2, and Nintendo will once again be segregated from third parties just like they are now.

I agree graphics are important, but I don't think they need to be in HD in order to be pretty. Personally, I like a game that pushes the system its on to breaking point. Think Killer Instinct on the SNES, or God of War II on PS2, or RE4 on GameCube. What annoys me is that no third parties are pushing Wii at all... and it's GameCube tech. 8 years old. They should have mastered it by now.

This has been a weird gaming generation for me.

I started with the Wii. When it first came out I had plenty to play and I enjoyed it quite a bit.

Then I got a 360. It was fairly fun, I played a few things on gamefly. Then I just kind of looked at it because I saw a system that basically told me "If you don't like steroid pumping shooters you better stfu and gtfo also taste teabag!" I'm sure it was an unfair judgement but anything it offered me that actually interested me I could just get my my PC. So I put it back in its box and I treat it like a vintage GI Joe now.

Now I have a PS3. I steam movies/music off my computer, play a swath of video games (some of which are on both consoles that I'm told are better on the 360) and genuinely enjoy myself. I'm sure soon enough the glimmer will wear off.

But for now this is the only generation where any of the consoles (66% even) disappointed me greatly. Maybe because too many games on the 360 seemed to rely so much on multiplayer. I liked multiplayer when it was a group of friends in a room. But when you can't smack someone across the temple with an N64 controller it just doesn't have the same flare.

Also find myself playing PC games again...what the fuck happened there? DRM was going balls to the walls and destroying my enjoyment of life and now I'm playing PC games again. Look what you did consoles...you bastards...you brought me back to this! At least now I can justify this rig...yes...I called it a rig.

PS. As a dude who is playing a game on a 1080P TV that is fairly pixelated I'd like to digitally cock slap everyone who demands awesome graphics.

Really? Is that what the world has come to. You are willing to play a FPS that does basically nothing better than FPS's from the late 90's just because it is gorgeous? Drives me nuts.

"It's amazing! You can DUAL WIELD!" ... yeah... Thanks. "You can talk to people while you fight!" Yeah... Could do that then too... *returns to Master of Orion 2 like an old codger keeping in mind he realizes Moo2 is not a FPS that just happens to be what he is playing.*

manicfoot:

I don't think making a Wii HD will solve Nintendo's problems. If they release a follow-up to Wii too soon, they'll be stuck in the same situation now. Microsoft and Sony will release new consoles that are a lot more powerful than Wii 2, and Nintendo will once again be segregated from third parties just like they are now...

Wii HD is ripe for ports. <.< Third party wont have to spend too much to port a game over with the same texture packs as say the 360 or ps3. Even if sales are slower, they are still making money. Right now it cost too much to make a completely different game for the Wii with its wiimote play scheme. Plus no REAL gamers to cater to. no market for the publishers to even give a hoot. They need to come out with an actual game controller that is Wii dedicated not taken from the n64.

Well lets be clear Nintendo does not actually have a problem, their first party are still making a killing, something most third party can only hope for. Then there is the 3 years of COMPLETELY OWNING THE MARKET and then suddenly its slowing down does not mean anything. Its how a product's life cycle is suppose to be.

p.s. i honestly could careless about Nintendo to be honest. They have been printing money for the pass 3 years and everyone assumes the apocalypse is here and the PS3 out sold them by a meager 50k units... so as Kevin Butler would say "I'm gonna file this under 'Not an Issue'"

Chipperz:

Aurgelmir:
My biggest beef with the Wii is the same beef I have with the hand helds:
The graphics sucks. And the Wii looks horrible on an HD TV.
















I'm so glad you've completely changed my stance on graphics, and now actually look forward to a fully 3D Sonic game, which will in no way be shit!

Point I was trying to make is that graphics matter. I am not saying it has to be 3D grafics, all I am saying is that the wii has so little going for it for me, that the shitty graphics tend to shine through.
And when I finaly find a game that is worth playing I cant help wonder how much better the experience would have been on a HD platform. Same goes for the hand held games that try to have good graphics and game play. I am not saying I disliked the game per say, but yeah I would rather have the game in HD on my PS3 than in strainovision on my PSP, playing til my eyes hurt and my thumb fall off from the bad controller.

Point I was trying to make is that graphics matter. I am not saying it has to be 3D grafics, all I am saying is that the wii has so little going for it for me, that the shitty graphics tend to shine through.
And when I finaly find a game that is worth playing I cant help wonder how much better the experience would have been on a HD platform. Same goes for the hand held games that try to have good graphics and game play. I am not saying I disliked the game per say, but yeah I would rather have the game in HD on my PS3 than in strainovision on my PSP, playing til my eyes hurt and my thumb fall off from the bad controller.

Sadly, I have to agree with this. Sure the wii has some good games ( mainly first-party games ), and even those games from the people who made the dang console seem to me like there is no true reason for them to be on the wii. My three favorite games for the wii ( Twilight Princess, Mario Galaxy, and SSBB ) all have nothing that gives them an advantage because of motion controls ( I prefer the GC twilight princess, I play SSBB with a GC controller, and the only real use for the wiimote in galaxy is for Star Bits ), and could have only been helped with better graphics.

Overall, I'm all for the whole "One cheap family friendly console", but I think the controller suuuuuccckkksss for hardcore games. Buttons are few and are placed oddly throughout the controller ( couldn't fit another button or two in there around the A button region? ), using motion to fill in the blank areas only makes for a game with even more finicky controls due to the wiis far from perfect motion sensing. If a console's primary pull is motion controls I think it needs to do the job a bit better than the wii does. The only games that seem to truly make good use of motion controls are the games where motion controls are the entire point, and even then they can occasionally end up with motion controls that don't quite get it right.

I'm not saying that motion controls are bad, but they just aren't good enough on the wii to be used heavily in game genres that they typically aren't used in ( not talking about aiming at the screen in shooters here ). The controller is in such a way that is seems big time developers only use some of the motion controls in the ways they do because the nature of the wiimote forces them to ( which I'm sure is intended ). Ummmmm so yeah...

Killerbunny001:
My simple brain came up with a simple for what is happening to the Wii :

Nintendo made the Wii especially for the casual gamers. Large 3d party game developers make games for the "hardcore" demographic thus asking them to make games for the Wii was like asking the milkman to design a rocket.

I blame Nintendo for the fail of the Wii, proper steps could have been taken by Nintendo to correct the trend of titles released on Pii but unfortunately no measures were taken.

Resident Evil sold nearly 2 million units. And that's for two reasons:

1. It's an established franchise
2. It's a quality product.

If Companies release lower budget or niche titles on the Wii expecting them to sell as much as high quality established franchises do, then they have themselves to blame. The steps Nintendo could have taken would have shown minimal changes, and it wouldn't have affected the game lineup.

If Red Steel 2 sells over a million, my point is proven.

P.S. They made the console for all.

sarcastic:

And all anyone blames is the lack of marketing on Dead Spaces' failure. I seem to remember gaming sites being plastered with adds and it was being talked about wherever I went. There may not have been TV adds but come on, the people who buy Dead Space are on gaming sites or are told to buy it from people who go on gaming sites. I mean hell, Rock Revolution sold 3000 copies and it was well over $100, had no adds and everyone knew it was a joke.

I work at a game store and not once, not a SINGLE TIME have I been asked for any of the following titles:

Dead Space: Extraction, Muramasa, Excitebots, Zach and Wiki, Madworld

People keep talking about "the hardcore audience on Wii" and I'm starting to doubt if there is one. What do they play? How long can Smash Bro's keep you going? Everyone was nuts about Excite Trucks but when Excite Bots comes out and everyone is praising it for being SO much better than it's former, it flops. And THOUGH it may have been lower budget for a 360/PS3 game, it was not low budget for a Wii game. Just like Dead Space, just like Okami, just like Madworld. Hell, New Super Mario bro's was probably a dirk cheap game to make, and as if Wii Sports Resort cost more than a bucket of bolts to throw together?

Evey game on the Wii is low budget save for Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess. So don't go blaming 3rd parties for not pouring in money when Nintendo sells multiple millions of a Mario Soccer remake and Wii Sports 2: It Actually Works This Time Edition

ok, I'm done ranting, your turn.

The fact of the matter is, Dead Space Extraction is a rail shooter. Muramasa is a 2D game. Zack and Wiki is a niche game (and it IS a niche game, it's a whimsical adventure/puzzle title ) and most of the gaming world that saw MadWorld weren't sold on the Black and White colour scheme. Some even complained.

DSE needed marketing to do better than it did. It's a rail shooter with no ad force behind it and a relatively new franchise. Even Dead Space hasn't sold over a million on a single console (neither have quite a few games that most think have). The only games that sell well over a million are the big budget blockbusters.

And Okami sold more on the Wii than it did on the PS2 (the PS2 version sold around 150,000 while the Wii version sold around 280-300,000), and look how many PS2s exist in the world. Just because a game is good it doesn't mean it's going to sell millions.

Publishers and Developers need to understand how Resident Evil 4 and Call of Duty have sold over a million while the gaming dregs they can sometimes leave the Wii with don't. Of course we can blame third parties on this one, a lot of them aren't even trying. If they sink as much money into a Wii game as they do with AAA titles, I am convinced they will make much more sales than they normally do.

And as for the "hardcore audience on Wii"...just like every console, the hardcore audience, the real hardcore audience is either minimal or non-existent. Now if you mean the core audience of gamers who play games as their main hobby and sink an average amount of hours into games, well that obviously exists. They just need to get them interested as a collective into the games they sell, which need to be high quality.

And you know what are good examples? Red Steel 2 and FF: Crystal Chronicles.

coldalarm:
Completely agree with the article. I've not really played a Wii, but the only games I played were Guitar Hero 3, Wario Ware and Mario Kart. And to be honest? I got a good laugh out of Wario Ware, but I wasn't impressed. Mario Kart was exactly the same as the previous ones, just controlled differently. And Guitar Hero was a bit infuriating, but then again, I have the hand-eye co-ordination of a drunk duck when it's an unfamiliar controller.

But I've looked at the games (I was interested at getting one myself, back when they first came out) and I'm so glad I didn't. Even Nintendo are running out of ideas, as proven above. I mean, come on, Metroid Trilogy? *New* Super Mario Bros? Mario Kart Wii?

Yeah, Wii Fit, Wii Play and Wii Sports are acclaimed, and that's good. But look at what they're aimed at! Wii Fit seems to be aimed more at the female user base, and if you think about it, a lot of the mums with access to a Wii have kids, so they can use Wii Fit when the kids aren't in or whatever. Wii Play sold more than it should have done simply because it was a game and a controller for little more than the game or controller would be. And Wii Sports was free, so no one cares :P

The Wii suffers from tunnel vision, IMHO. It's aimed squarely at parties and "social gamers", and that's a BAD direction to go. As it's been pointed out many times above, there is nothing that appeals to the rest of the gaming community, which is silly as we are probably the majority base. I'm a huge RPG player, and the Wii has nothing really that appeals to me (OK, Animal Crossing does) and as such that's money 3rd Parties aren't getting. FPS players get a rough deal as we've had at least a decade of game pads, maybe two. Motion control isn't that suited for games like Call of Duty - At least not online.

If the Motion Controller was "optional" then I think it'd do better. Due to the nature of the system, it's got itself into a niche it can't get out of, and that's why 3rd parties won't support it.

I'm not sure you understand what's been going on.

The "hardcore" and "core" gamers are the ones who are outnumbered by the so-called "casuals and party gamers" who are, in reality, an expanded audience that is harder to sell to because they don't exist in a niche where videogames are their primary form of entertainment and so they're clamouring to play anything they can get their hands on.

Wii Sports was not a "freebie" that nobody cares about. Wii Sports /is/ the Wii. People lined up in droves to buy the Wii /for/ Wii Sports - and what Wii Sports promised later on down the line. Mario Kart Wii has sold about 20 million copies and is still going. It's far outsold all previous console Mario Karts. The point of the game is not that it's "more Mario Kart" (something that can be said of every franchise; more Final Fantasy, more Madden, more Call of Duty), but that it was a critical bridge game between the expanded audience who finally felt there was something interesting in the world of video games, and typical "core" genres, such as racing. And it worked. New Super Mario Bros. Wii, a game the jaded, myopic hardcore will sneer at as being "old and uncreative" because it's a mere 2D platformer, was made precisely because the expanded audience and lapsed gamers from the actual "oldschool" were abandoned, when even Nintendo stopped making games for them, because they followed the trend of the industry and the ever-more inbred hardcore game ecology. NSMB Wii will probably also move huge numbers and be an evergreen title that never stops selling, though the hardcore will not understand what's happening there.

(Listing Metroid Prime Trilogy as something that shows Nintendo has no ideas is bizarre, as it's just a compilation, which are common in the entire industry.)

Wii Fit created, or rather, finally helped fully define, a new kind of software and use for videogames. While some core gamers may be baffled at the notion, there are all sorts of people using Wii Fit; not just soccer moms.

3rd parties have failed with the Wii not because the Wii is aimed at "party game" but because 3rd parties lacked the drive, common sense, balls, and imagination to take advantage of entirely new markets that were being opened up. They set themselves up to fail by releasinge what are, by the standards of the expanded audience, the true niche titles: first person shooters and bloody action-fighting games. Then they cried that nobody can sell games on the Wii but Nintendo.

Where Nintendo has fallen down is in capitalizing on the promise of the Wii. They did not release ENOUGH Wii Sports, or Wii Fits, or Mario Karts. They became too conservative after the initial rush and stopped trying to stretch the boundaries to apply the Wii ideal to even more kinds of games or invent entirely new genres. A perfect example is the relatively tepid sales and reception of Animal Crossing Wii. This game could have been another Mario Kart Wii, but Nintendo created what was barely more than a Gamecube port that did not use the Wii interface to bring new experiences and new ways to interact with existing ideas. They failed to use the channel system, or Wiiconnect 24 effectively, or anything else that makes the Wii unique. When people saw the idea of Animal Crossing on the Wii, the expanded audience would have imagined a world in which fishing was an entire game of its own using the wiimote, and similar ideas. But it was a stale game and failed to excite or surprise anyone.

In point of fact, the Wii COULD also be a home to mid-range and modest budget core titles that were part of the backbone of the Playstation 2 era and which have been all but exterminated by the HD Twins as the industry has pushed for 20 million dollar AAA games, creating ever larger spectacles of audio-visual presentation to sell with hyperbole. The anemic offerings such as Dead Space: Extraction, No More Heroes, or Mad World, would have been seen as mediocre core titles last generation when compared with what was actually good. They were almost laughably marketed as "hardcore saviors" on the Wii. Each one sold about as much as it really deserved to sell.

At this point though, the core and hardcore gamers largely continue to sell themselves on the lie of the "casual" gamer, an archtype which has been created to explain the unexplainable: why the Wii is selling so much. When the industry and core gamers use the word "casual" what they usually mean is "stupid". People who are not smart enough, not hardcore enough, not hip enough, or sophisticated enough, to play real games like Metal Gear Solid or Call of Duty.

Miki91:

AvsJoe:
This article made me feel ridiculously guilty because I am truly part of the problem, not the solution. Even though both my family and my flatmates own a Wii, neither I nor anyone else I know have ever supported third-party games because we just assumed that they would all be shit and sure enough that statement is fast becoming true because of people like us.

Does this mean I'm an even worse person because I don't even own a Wii? I mean, I didn't get a Wii because I just assumed we would get the same bunch of Nintento games in a new shell, and I'm tired to death of those. I've never even thought about the possibility that Third Party Developers might offer something worthy of my time! I am truly ashamed (I do however also not own a PS3 or 360, I'm purely PC gamer^^)

Heh, I'd be even worse. I didn't get a Wii simply because it's new. No-ones developing decent games for it (Mario 50 so isn't counted) so didn't even bother. I have a PC and PSP, but have nothing against a 360 or PS3. And look at it like this, 3rd party developers haven't released any good games on the Wii. Wait.. There's a few I want to play, but it's not an "OMG!! Must get now or die!!" kind of thing. More of a whenever I win lotto so can afford to blow a thousand on something I won't use much.

But the Wii had so much potential. Think of a samurai/ninja/medieval game where you got to swing a sword around. WiiTennis is lame, 1.5 metre katana would be much more fun. An RPG where you sliced something up or cast a spell using the arcane symbols has potential. Or a shooter with the light gun attachment even, but the Wii is aimed at "casual gamers" who think WiiFit is a game.

@ O P

... You seriously think Extraction was going to compete with the other games? Which I don't think even came out on the Wii. Assassins Creed 2, L4D2, MW2 (seeing a lot of 2's :S)..

The Wii isn't aimed at people who play those games so those games can't really compete.

Looking at it another way, the people who have Wii's aren't people who are going to buy Extraction because they aren't interested in shooters. It's been 3 years. If Extraction is the best shooter the Wii can offer, it's much, much too late.

I'm used to better articles than this on The Escapist. Blaming third party dev's is true on the surface, but it's much more than that. Why make a game no-ones going to buy? More of a effect than cause here.

Watch a Nintendo Wii ad. Nintendo set it up to change the definition of gamer, 3 years later they're finding that it worked. The Wii doesn't sell to a gamer that plays games like those mentioned, which coincidentally, are the biggest selling games in the world. Doomed from the start really. Maybe if Sony or MSFT made the Wii then it could have worked. Nintendo just can't do it.

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