Zero Punctuation: Left 4 Dead 2 & New Super Mario Bros Wii

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Motakikurushi:

WraithGadra:

Motakikurushi:
Once again, Yahtzee has bestowed some poignant wisdom regarding the worst gaming company in recent history. Never in my life have I heard of a more absolutely retarded concept than 'New Super Mario Bros DS on the Wii', because that's all it is really; repackage a previously released title (which has been released prior New Super Mario Bros Wii about a billion times) and sell it again. How the hell could anybody have bought this? If Darwin's theory of evolution could be applied to Video Games then Nintendo should technically not exist. They become more powerful the more repetitive and unoriginal they are. I heartily look forward to 'New New Super Mario Bros DS' and 'New New Super Mario Bros DS on the Wii'.

Oh, and L4D2 does fall into this hole as well, but I'm willing to forgive Valve because they've actually released something original in the past decade.

Really? So the DS, Nintendogs, Brain Age, the Wii, Wii Sports and Wii Fit don't qualify as 'original'? What does under your definition, because it's different than the one I'm familiar with.

As for the video, some complaints about the two games are valid, but I strongly disagree with the closing rant about how NSMBWii "has no right to exist". What are you trying to say with that statement, Yahtzee? That Mario games shouldn't exist, or that 2d platformers shouldn't exist, or something else entirely? Also, you seem to have taken a 180 from your position that Nintendo "couldn't be bothered" to make Mario and Zelda games anymore, what happened to facilitate that?

I see. So, flailing your arms around, shouting and doing maths is original. What I mean is Portal, Half Life 2, Psychonauts, Earthbound, all games that tried something unique, stylish and 'original' and a majority of the time have gotten their heads kicked in for it. The reason the Wii is still doing so well is idiots fail to recognise that Nintendo are selling the same products consecutively in different colours. I didn't even mention the concept of a Nintendo game apart from NSMBW being unoriginal, but now that you've mentioned it...

What I'm getting at is it's the same damn game that us kiddies played on the NES, except with some different features. Of course I think the DS is original. Why do you think I still play it? Among all of the utter tripe Nintendo has bestowed the DS is still to this day 'redeemable'. Of course, Yahtzee didn't say all Mario games/2D platformers are unoriginal, how the hell did you garner that assumption? He was attacking NSMBW and it got what it deserved. My point is the word 'New' used in the title is ironic to say the least. The game is just a joke. If it has nothing new to offer then why purchase it at all? Dust off that old Mario Bros 3 cartridge and get the same experience.

So some games that add a few new concepts to an established genre are considered original, but other games that do so aren't? I also never said anything about originality in my address toward Yahtzee, you're arguing against a position I don't hold. Of course, you can't get the experience of NSMBWii in SMB 3 because the latter game doesn't allow replaying stages or for multiple players simultaneously running around in non-battle stages, so it is 'New' even if you prefer the older game.

Look forward to playing it...some day D: I'm so poor QQ

Basslover:
Mazty:

same here with mario, some people just like arcades like, pin point precision control and rewarding feeling of skill of an gud ol' plataformer, after all these are GAMES things made to be fun is the game is not fun i don't care how inmersive it is.

Mazty:

Anorgil:

Mazty:
Awesome, totally agree with the Mario comment. Worst is...why are people buying it?? Really? Last time I checked, nostalgia is best left as a memory. I loved driver, went back to it, and christ, what a mess of a game. I should have just left is as a pleasant memory...

Probably for the same reason that people buy games off the Virtual Console.

I.e. that plenty of people actually do like to go back to the old games.

On the other hand, Super Mario World IS on the Virtual Console...

THough that's not answering the question...
Why do people like playing old games? The graphics and gameplay are inherently worse, there is literally nothing good about them other than being able to recall fond memories. And as I've said, that usually is a giant-ass let down as you are left wondering how you have fond memories of something that looks like cat barf and handles like bricks in a balloon...

Really? if that's the case then shouldn't Little big Planet play better than SMB3 or SMB!, new doesn't mean better, graphics yeah, but gameplay?, nope, if not WHY people play those games, if not of a definition of queality but because the gamplay is fun, and again the almost 20 million copies of nsmb ds tell the story, if you don't like them, fine, but don't put them down when there is a HUGE population that likes them. Heck i don't like FPS but im not whinning about why 13 millions of people played COD MW1, is their genre not mine.

same here with mario, some people just like arcades like, pin point precision control and rewarding feeling of skill of an gud ol' plataformer, after all these are GAMES things made to be fun is the game is not fun i don't care how inmersive it is.

Good should evolve. Simple. If you pay money just for something that has had a graphical improvement and co-op (Holy sh*t, co-op?! Mind blast! Not like its years old or anything...) then you are not a gamer, just a corporate tool. If people actually said "Hey I loved SMB on the SNES, but come on guys, you could have mixed it up a little", then maybe, just maybe, Nintendo would be releasing games which won't be seen by the future gamer as the apex of the gaming Dark Ages. Seriously. This is where this sh*t is taking us - the gaming Dark Ages. If Halo 3, SMB Wii and MW2 have shown us anything, it's the majority of gamers are easily influenced by adverts and nostalgia. They aren't asking for improvements, which is absurd.
Imagine if Hollywood was releasing the same tripe from the 60's for "nostalgia". Or the car industy. 0-60mph would still take 3 weeks.
The gaming industry is the only one which literally buys it. Why? Because with gaming, a lot of gamers have no idea what the hell quality is. If games were as wide spread as films or cars, then Nintendo would have "wanked itself away" by now. But no, people just buy the same sh*t because it's safe. When gaming collapses in on itself, only the customers can be blamed for not encouraging evolution and development.

yourbeliefs:

Mazty:

THough that's not answering the question...
Why do people like playing old games? The graphics and gameplay are inherently worse, there is literally nothing good about them other than being able to recall fond memories. And as I've said, that usually is a giant-ass let down as you are left wondering how you have fond memories of something that looks like cat barf and handles like bricks in a balloon...

Because some of them are just good games. People don't just play old games for nostalgia value. Yes, some games hold up better than others, but a truly good game will keep being good. I recently played Monkey Island 1 & 2 (NOT the remade versions, but the old SCUMM renditions) and while the game looked and sounded like shit, it was still fun and compelling enough to suck me in. By your logic, all games, regardless of how good they inherently are, will turn into shit as time goes on because something better will come out eventually.

They WERE good, but not now in comparison to the market and technology out there. If a bot could determine between a path and wall, sweet Jebus, that's amazing. Nowadays we should be asking for nueral networks etc, but no, of course not, joe public has killed that one. Why? See my last post. Essentially, some "gamers" don't encourage quality. The only reason such large multi-national companies get away with this is because of the age of gamers. If gamers weren't made of such an insecure market, then maybe, just maybe, the buyers would make a stand and tell the companies that they have to actually make a large change in their game before buying the sequel. I mean really, almost 20 years on from the SNES and people are still okay with side scrolling enemies? It's like why the FU*K DO HAMELT cigars exist? Because some 'tard out there things they are good because he's never had a real cigar.
See last post for more in-depth convo of gamers killing their own industry.

Never commented here before so I have to say great video. Oh, and Bowser would dominate.

I laughed harder than I have in a while at the Left 4 Dead 2 Rocky V line, don't know why but it just hit me at the right moment and I nearly choked on my Green Tea. Thanks Yahtzee! And as usual a review that makes sense, the games fun but nothing to write home about as they say. :)

Yahtzee's back! thats more like it!

I have a question. You mentioned in one earlier review that you played Twilight Princess and Mario Sunshine before Ocarina of Time and Mario 64 and you thought (rightfully so) that TP and Sunshine were far better in every way. But in this review you said that Super Mario World and Yoshi's Island were better than New Super Mario Bros. Wii. Were you saying this out of nostalgia or something or was Super Mario World literally a better game? I played both and although they didn't change enough in the new game I still enjoyed it.

ugh if ur really just going to argue on the comments then y watch this video? Its just for entertainment and yahtzee doesn't mean one third of what he says in these things. I personally think L4D2 was good enough to stand alone as a sequel and the other one sucks but come on. you can at least try to give valve credit. I could say we could give nintendo credit, but then I would have to stop watching all this in favor in nintendo tv.

Nice stuff mate.

Great review as always :)
But honestly he is right, Nintendo is lazy as hell!!!! I wonder if the next Zelda game will have us saving the princess?

What the Hell is it with The Escapist and Valve? Out of no where you have an ad for half life 2 episode 3. Im starting to think that Valve has paid alot of money to be hyped in every fucking video/comic/magazine on The Escapist.

I understand that Escapist needs to make money somehow but do you really need to through ads into videos like that?

I loved the elite beat reference :)

But, I don't agree with the l4d2 being an expansion pack.

Anyone else think the boomer bile at the end had eyes?

Fronzel:

Basslover:

Tweekus:

WraithGadra:
You know, I completely forgot about the Extra Punctuation on Generic games when I posted before. Given that NSMBWii is a high profile standard-bearer for this kind of design philosophy, why does it receive the vitriol that it does?

I think he makes a distinction between a generic game that is not already a franchise and a game that is one of a long line of games within a franchise that REFUSES to try anything new.

Anything new?, who about being able to play the whole "campaign" in coop/competive local multiplayer, with the same precision of solo playing for 1-4 players without spilt screen.

being the first 2d mario console game in like 18 years?

A badly-functioning multi-player option is innovation?

Being just like games released 20 years ago is innovation?

could you explain just how are they badly implemeted? i can't see how
look at most of the reviews of the game, they usualy praise the miltiplayer
as fun mixing coop and competitive at the same time (kinda innovative huh)

Mazty:

Basslover:
Mazty:

same here with mario, some people just like arcades like, pin point precision control and rewarding feeling of skill of an gud ol' plataformer, after all these are GAMES things made to be fun is the game is not fun i don't care how inmersive it is.

Mazty:

Anorgil:

Mazty:
Awesome, totally agree with the Mario comment. Worst is...why are people buying it?? Really? Last time I checked, nostalgia is best left as a memory. I loved driver, went back to it, and christ, what a mess of a game. I should have just left is as a pleasant memory...

Probably for the same reason that people buy games off the Virtual Console.

I.e. that plenty of people actually do like to go back to the old games.

On the other hand, Super Mario World IS on the Virtual Console...

THough that's not answering the question...
Why do people like playing old games? The graphics and gameplay are inherently worse, there is literally nothing good about them other than being able to recall fond memories. And as I've said, that usually is a giant-ass let down as you are left wondering how you have fond memories of something that looks like cat barf and handles like bricks in a balloon...

Really? if that's the case then shouldn't Little big Planet play better than SMB3 or SMB!, new doesn't mean better, graphics yeah, but gameplay?, nope, if not WHY people play those games, if not of a definition of queality but because the gamplay is fun, and again the almost 20 million copies of nsmb ds tell the story, if you don't like them, fine, but don't put them down when there is a HUGE population that likes them. Heck i don't like FPS but im not whinning about why 13 millions of people played COD MW1, is their genre not mine.

same here with mario, some people just like arcades like, pin point precision control and rewarding feeling of skill of an gud ol' plataformer, after all these are GAMES things made to be fun is the game is not fun i don't care how inmersive it is.

Good should evolve. Simple. If you pay money just for something that has had a graphical improvement and co-op (Holy sh*t, co-op?! Mind blast! Not like its years old or anything...) then you are not a gamer, just a corporate tool. If people actually said "Hey I loved SMB on the SNES, but come on guys, you could have mixed it up a little", then maybe, just maybe, Nintendo would be releasing games which won't be seen by the future gamer as the apex of the gaming Dark Ages. Seriously. This is where this sh*t is taking us - the gaming Dark Ages. If Halo 3, SMB Wii and MW2 have shown us anything, it's the majority of gamers are easily influenced by adverts and nostalgia. They aren't asking for improvements, which is absurd.
Imagine if Hollywood was releasing the same tripe from the 60's for "nostalgia". Or the car industy. 0-60mph would still take 3 weeks.
The gaming industry is the only one which literally buys it. Why? Because with gaming, a lot of gamers have no idea what the hell quality is. If games were as wide spread as films or cars, then Nintendo would have "wanked itself away" by now. But no, people just buy the same sh*t because it's safe. When gaming collapses in on itself, only the customers can be blamed for not encouraging evolution and development.

Coorporate tool........ last time i checked to be a gamer was to have fun with a GAME, so if the game is fun, even if doesn't fit your definition of innovation as something radically new then is not a "game" and the ones who play it are not "gamers"....such arrogance,

dude a game is a game, and the content is not overused it was missed, and again im not complaining on the invasion of PC dev. on the console market doing LOTS of fps on crappy dual analog sticks, is the game was done was because nintendo discovered a market for 2d plataformers in nsmb ds which sold millions and is still selling today, they didn't a 2d mario because they tought (like you now) that 2d is not a valid form of gaming anymore and that people should be happy with 3d mario, but after seeing that success on ds what they did was did a 2d game with NEW worlds, NEW powers, NEW multiplayer mode and make sure it played as good as the old ones, that's is, and like someone said, it wll be selling in 2012, i ll like to see how much of these "innovative" games sell that much (without beign wiifit or wiisports)

Hey Yahtzee, if you managed to read this far cheack this out:

http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/

is an opinion onthe video of this week (not hotheaded or anything), is actually a interesting opinion on the definition of innovation (like sustaining innovation vs disruptive innovation), things on the evolution of mario games and differences of perspectives, no hate just points of view, is really good.

Sorry for the bad english.

(btw loved the video, hated your nsmbw arguments, looking foward the next one)

I think it's time we abandoned the clunky phrase "zombie apocalypse" and adopted the far more streamlined "zombocalypse." Say it out loud. Just rolls right off the tongue, don't it?

I don't know what's funnier: the video itself, one of the best ever made by Yahtzee, or the reaction of all the l4d32324342 fanboys :D

lol... The Shawshank Redemption! I hate that movie.

I've played the L4D2 demo and I liked it. Never played the first one so i found it very interesting and different. Maybe I'll get it when the price comes down.

YES! ep3! Valve needs to get their act together!

Motakikurushi:
Once again, Yahtzee has bestowed some poignant wisdom regarding the worst gaming company in recent history. Never in my life have I heard of a more absolutely retarded concept than 'New Super Mario Bros DS on the Wii', because that's all it is really; repackage a previously released title (which has been released prior New Super Mario Bros Wii about a billion times) and sell it again. How the hell could anybody have bought this? If Darwin's theory of evolution could be applied to Video Games then Nintendo should technically not exist. They become more powerful the more repetitive and unoriginal they are. I heartily look forward to 'New New Super Mario Bros DS' and 'New New Super Mario Bros DS on the Wii'.

Oh, and L4D2 does fall into this hole as well, but I'm willing to forgive Valve because they've actually released something original in the past decade.

'survival of the fittest' has not everything to do with individual traits as innovation or originality. At its core, it's about survival of the best adapted, the best suited to the environment.

And the environment (the gamers) seem to like the repetitiveness and unoriginality of nintendo. This is just something that will happen with games becoming mass-market, mainstream. Look at the movie industry and the same friction between hollywood and arthouse

Basslover:
Why do people like playing old games? The graphics and gameplay are inherently worse, there is literally nothing good about them other than being able to recall fond memories. And as I've said, that usually is a giant-ass let down as you are left wondering how you have fond memories of something that looks like cat barf and handles like bricks in a balloon.

Really? if that's the case then shouldn't Little big Planet play better than SMB3 or SMB!, new doesn't mean better, graphics yeah, but gameplay?, nope, if not WHY people play those games, if not of a definition of queality but because the gamplay is fun, and again the almost 20 million copies of nsmb ds tell the story, if you don't like them, fine, but don't put them down when there is a HUGE population that likes them. Heck i don't like FPS but im not whinning about why 13 millions of people played COD MW1, is their genre not mine.

same here with mario, some people just like arcades like, pin point precision control and rewarding feeling of skill of an gud ol' plataformer, after all these are GAMES things made to be fun is the game is not fun i don't care how inmersive it is.

Because New Super Mario Smash Bro's is FUN and a joy to play.

It's not just game developers getting greedy these days, it's gamers too. What people don't get is that games have pretty much peaked in terms of innovation as EVERYTHING half decent has been covered in the last 20 years.

The only thing that can be original these days is the storyline and that's becoming a rarity as well.

As long as the games graphics don't hurt my eyes, the controls work the way i want them, game play features have some sort of challenge, then i consider that a good buy.

If the game has a well thought out storyline, i consider that a great buy.

It's even a plus when games throw in co-op (which should be becoming the norm in current generation games as far as i'm concerned) another plus is when the game play lasts more than 5 hours which thankfully NSMSB does with 8 worlds to cover.

Yes innovation is great but most innovation these days break games because game developers try too hard, i'm actually glad NSMSB's plays exactly like SMB3 because at least back then games were actually challenging and well thought out.

Basslover:

Mazty:

Basslover:
Mazty:

same here with mario, some people just like arcades like, pin point precision control and rewarding feeling of skill of an gud ol' plataformer, after all these are GAMES things made to be fun is the game is not fun i don't care how inmersive it is.

Mazty:

Anorgil:

Mazty:
Awesome, totally agree with the Mario comment. Worst is...why are people buying it?? Really? Last time I checked, nostalgia is best left as a memory. I loved driver, went back to it, and christ, what a mess of a game. I should have just left is as a pleasant memory...

Probably for the same reason that people buy games off the Virtual Console.

I.e. that plenty of people actually do like to go back to the old games.

On the other hand, Super Mario World IS on the Virtual Console...

THough that's not answering the question...
Why do people like playing old games? The graphics and gameplay are inherently worse, there is literally nothing good about them other than being able to recall fond memories. And as I've said, that usually is a giant-ass let down as you are left wondering how you have fond memories of something that looks like cat barf and handles like bricks in a balloon...

Really? if that's the case then shouldn't Little big Planet play better than SMB3 or SMB!, new doesn't mean better, graphics yeah, but gameplay?, nope, if not WHY people play those games, if not of a definition of queality but because the gamplay is fun, and again the almost 20 million copies of nsmb ds tell the story, if you don't like them, fine, but don't put them down when there is a HUGE population that likes them. Heck i don't like FPS but im not whinning about why 13 millions of people played COD MW1, is their genre not mine.

same here with mario, some people just like arcades like, pin point precision control and rewarding feeling of skill of an gud ol' plataformer, after all these are GAMES things made to be fun is the game is not fun i don't care how inmersive it is.

Good should evolve. Simple. If you pay money just for something that has had a graphical improvement and co-op (Holy sh*t, co-op?! Mind blast! Not like its years old or anything...) then you are not a gamer, just a corporate tool. If people actually said "Hey I loved SMB on the SNES, but come on guys, you could have mixed it up a little", then maybe, just maybe, Nintendo would be releasing games which won't be seen by the future gamer as the apex of the gaming Dark Ages. Seriously. This is where this sh*t is taking us - the gaming Dark Ages. If Halo 3, SMB Wii and MW2 have shown us anything, it's the majority of gamers are easily influenced by adverts and nostalgia. They aren't asking for improvements, which is absurd.
Imagine if Hollywood was releasing the same tripe from the 60's for "nostalgia". Or the car industy. 0-60mph would still take 3 weeks.
The gaming industry is the only one which literally buys it. Why? Because with gaming, a lot of gamers have no idea what the hell quality is. If games were as wide spread as films or cars, then Nintendo would have "wanked itself away" by now. But no, people just buy the same sh*t because it's safe. When gaming collapses in on itself, only the customers can be blamed for not encouraging evolution and development.

Coorporate tool........ last time i checked to be a gamer was to have fun with a GAME, so if the game is fun, even if doesn't fit your definition of innovation as something radically new then is not a "game" and the ones who play it are not "gamers"....such arrogance,

dude a game is a game, and the content is not overused it was missed, and again im not complaining on the invasion of PC dev. on the console market doing LOTS of fps on crappy dual analog sticks, is the game was done was because nintendo discovered a market for 2d plataformers in nsmb ds which sold millions and is still selling today, they didn't a 2d mario because they tought (like you now) that 2d is not a valid form of gaming anymore and that people should be happy with 3d mario, but after seeing that success on ds what they did was did a 2d game with NEW worlds, NEW powers, NEW multiplayer mode and make sure it played as good as the old ones, that's is, and like someone said, it wll be selling in 2012, i ll like to see how much of these "innovative" games sell that much (without beign wiifit or wiisports)

SOrry, you have not shown how liking this joke of a game is no different to whacking off over films from the 60's or cars from the 40's. As I have said, all it shows is the person hasn't actually played a wide variety of games if they enjoy it. Either that, or people are much more easily entertained (Read brain-dead) than I had imagined.
Pong was fun, Tetris was fun etc. SMB was fun, but should have evolved. It hasn't - it's just the same crap rehashed and for some reason people are happy to pay good money for it.
By the way, could you work on your grammar as it was pretty dire in your post.
You say it'll be selling in 2012. I bet the Wii will be flooding ebay by then and worth jack-sh*t all. Fact is most Wii owners have no idea what a game is, they just get easily entertained by bright colours etc. If you grabbed someone who'd never played a game before and gave him Tetris, he'd think it was the cream of the crop - same here with the Wii in general. If you get someone whose played games for a long time, and a variety, they'll tell you tetris, SMB etc were good, but now are just lame. Simply put, there are games that do the same, but better.
Plus, it's people like you who are killing the industry as you have no idea between quality and fun (See Tetris comments).

STOP OVER QUOTING!

CanadianElite:
STOP OVER QUOTING!

Triple junk post. Congrats, troll is troll.

You could get the new Mario game and have 4 people piss each other off but lbp lets you annoy your friends so much more because mid jump you can grab them and fall into the abyss.

That and lbp lets you create your own levels with all those tools so you can perfectly recreate the new Mario game, that is actually the old Mario game. That plays like any of the old 2d Mario games.

Good review. Is Mario full price? It looks like it should cost about 6.00 on XBL market place like all of the SEGA Genesis re releases.

I haven't bought L4D2 as it feels like a poorly ported PC title. I'm interested, thought about buying it but decided not to buy a poor version of a good game.

Unfortunately I've not had a gaming rig in years.

Darkflamex:

Because New Super Mario Smash Bro's is FUN and a joy to play.

It's not just game developers getting greedy these days, it's gamers too. What people don't get is that games have pretty much peaked in terms of innovation as EVERYTHING half decent has been covered in the last 20 years.

The only thing that can be original these days is the storyline and that's becoming a rarity as well.

As long as the games graphics don't hurt my eyes, the controls work the way i want them, game play features have some sort of challenge, then i consider that a good buy.

If the game has a well thought out storyline, i consider that a great buy.

It's even a plus when games throw in co-op (which should be becoming the norm in current generation games as far as i'm concerned) another plus is when the game play lasts more than 5 hours which thankfully NSMSB does with 8 worlds to cover.

Yes innovation is great but most innovation these days break games because game developers try too hard, i'm actually glad NSMSB's plays exactly like SMB3 because at least back then games were actually challenging and well thought out.

Then get an emulator and play mario 3. This is a redundant title. Multi-player is not an inovation. Weve been doing multi player platforming since before contra.

Saying all innovations have been made is a cop out. Recently we've had an explosion in fps (horde mode), motion controls (wii, Natal), touch screen (DS), music games (guitar hero, rock band) to name the first few from the top of my head. None of these were around 10 years ago.

I also seriously doubt there is much challenge in Mario Wii as there will be auto save/save points. Any borderline moron with two thumbs and a working inner ear could muscle through it to the end. You have to accept that mainstream titles will never be as hard as they used to be. I've never put that amount of effort in since beating bionic commando on the NES.

Gamers who don't expect improvements and innovation in titles are bad for gaming. If everyone was like that we would still be playing pong.

I'm getting extremely bored of all the people who feel the need to justify their 50 dollar purchase of L4D2 because of all these oooh shiny new melee weapons, and oooh look new creatures and ooo new maps. But while you're playing your over priced sequel, I'll be playing Killing Floor, which has no problems giving new weapons (and had a chainsaw from day one, it's not THAT special) and zombies and maps for free. And the game was only 20 bucks to begin with.

Lord_Awesome:
I think it's time we abandoned the clunky phrase "zombie apocalypse" and adopted the far more streamlined "zombocalypse." Say it out loud. Just rolls right off the tongue, don't it?

I usually just go with "Z-day". Very concise.

2D anything is passe even on portables.... sure tis not that it can not be horrible..er..I mean good its just been there done that why bother.

I am still waiting on the ultimate mario game, the levels would work like a cross between Prototype and Fallout 3 with traditional marioeqse layouts. The gameplay is like mario 64 but you unlock more powers and can unlock power up moves. The power ups are form SMB3 and SMBW. The equipment system would be like zelda you stick stuff on and that is that some help with swimming some flying some give extra health some allow you to keep a power up no matter what your health is.

Give me that and I will die a happy bastard!!

It depends on how you define next generation I guess. I haven't seen any games on the 360 or PS3 that have made me think: 'this couldn't have been done on an earlier generation.' Aside from the online functions there isn't really anything gameplay-wise about COD4-2 that couldn't have been done on the Xbox. It wouldn't have looked as good but the gameplay would have been pretty much the same. I realise the same can be said about Mario games, but the Wii's control scheme has the potential to provide gameplay that can't really be emulated on any other console. So what if the graphics aren't state of the art? I haven't been impressed by a game's graphics since I saw the first Resident Evil update. I simply view amazing graphics as a matter of course. Until games utilise a console's processing power to enhance gameplay (like Half-Life 2 did with it's gravity physics) I'll always feel I didn't need to fork out for a 360. Wii's graphics might not be that good and most of its games are, admittedly, rubbish; but the ones that are good make me feel excited about games in a way I haven't felt since the first screenshots of Mario 64, because they offer something new.

Broojenstein:
It depends on how you define next generation I guess. I haven't seen any games on the 360 or PS3 that have made me think: 'this couldn't have been done on an earlier generation.' Aside from the online functions there isn't really anything gameplay-wise about COD4-2 that couldn't have been done on the Xbox. It wouldn't have looked as good but the gameplay would have been pretty much the same. I realise the same can be said about Mario games, but the Wii's control scheme has the potential to provide gameplay that can't really be emulated on any other console. So what if the graphics aren't state of the art? I haven't been impressed by a game's graphics since I saw the first Resident Evil update. I simply view amazing graphics as a matter of course. Until games utilise a console's processing power to enhance gameplay (like Half-Life 2 did with it's gravity physics) I'll always feel I didn't need to fork out for a 360. Wii's graphics might not be that good and most of its games are, admittedly, rubbish; but the ones that are good make me feel excited about games in a way I haven't felt since the first screenshots of Mario 64, because they offer something new.

Unfortunately, your good (valid) points will fall on deaf ears here. There are a lot of young kids on this site and all their immature brains want is killing and FPS's and graphics. Notice how so many of them are complaining about NSMBW being so similar to it's predecessors but none of them have anything bad to say about L4D2 even though it's pretty much exactly the same as L4D1.

Mazty:
SOrry, you have not shown how liking this joke of a game is no different to whacking off over films from the 60's or cars from the 40's. As I have said, all it shows is the person hasn't actually played a wide variety of games if they enjoy it.

I would love to hear the logic behind this statement. How exactly does enjoying something old have any bearing on how many games someone has played?

bjj hero:
Then get an emulator and play mario 3. This is a redundant title. Multi-player is not an inovation. Weve been doing multi player platforming since before contra.

You've never played Mario like this though. Your argument only holds water in the most general view on gaming. Of course multiplayer has been done before. But four player Mario? Never. Saying that the game has been done before is as shallow as saying that every FPS is exactly the same. People may use it as an argument, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a pretty shitty argument.

Saying all innovations have been made is a cop out. Recently we've had an explosion in fps (horde mode), motion controls (wii, Natal), touch screen (DS), music games (guitar hero, rock band) to name the first few from the top of my head. None of these were around 10 years ago.

Actually, motion controls were around ten years ago. I'm sure you remember all the NES peripherals. Music games have certainly been around for a good while, though Guitar Hero revolutionized the genre. And FPS and innovative doesn't really go together anymore.

I also seriously doubt there is much challenge in Mario Wii as there will be auto save/save points.

If a stage is friggin' hard then it will still be friggin' hard even if you saved before it. The challenge isn't in having to start all over, it's in progressing.

As I have said, all it shows is the person hasn't actually played a wide variety of games if they enjoy it.

Your statement was proven false before you even made it. Gamers all over have played and enjoyed this game.

Either that, or people are much more easily entertained (Read brain-dead) than I had imagined.

Instead of assuming that everyone else are stupid, why don't you reflect on yourself instead? Not saying that YOU're the stupid one, but rather that your perception on both gaming and gamers is faulty as fuck.

Pong was fun, Tetris was fun etc. SMB was fun, but should have evolved. It hasn't - it's just the same crap rehashed and for some reason people are happy to pay good money for it.

Super Mario Bros., Pong and Tetris have something in common. They're played to this day. Tetris could very well be the most played game in the world.

Why?

Because they're FUN. And with that, I mean that they're fun even after the tenth goddamn playthrough. NSMBW will keep the players playing, because no stage and no playthrough is ever the same. They made sure of that when they put in the multiplayer.

You say it'll be selling in 2012. I bet the Wii will be flooding ebay by then and worth jack-sh*t all.

That's what they said about 2009 in 2006.

Fact is most Wii owners have no idea what a game is, they just get easily entertained by bright colours etc.

Fun fact, no Wii owner buy a Wii for anything other than games. Your argument contradicts itself. Wii owners are Wii owners because they wanted to play Wii games.

If you grabbed someone who'd never played a game before and gave him Tetris, he'd think it was the cream of the crop - same here with the Wii in general. If you get someone whose played games for a long time, and a variety, they'll tell you tetris, SMB etc were good, but now are just lame. Simply put, there are games that do the same, but better.

No game is doing what NSMBW is doing.

The old "they don't know any better" argument has been pulled ever since the Wii's launch, and it seems that some people still can't get into their heads that there MIGHT be one other explanation, one that doesn't require spewing shallow gaming stereotypes ala omgcasualz.

Plus, it's people like you who are killing the industry as you have no idea between quality and fun (See Tetris comments).

It's time for you to shut the f*** up about what other people do and don't know, and realize your own shortcomings when it comes to understanding and perceiving the "industry". Customers, be it a "casual" or a "hardcore" gamer, can never be wrong about the industry. Why? Because they're the f***ing customers. THEY decide what's good and what's bad. If they like something, you better damn believe that there's a good reason for it, and not "because they don't know any better", because that's bullcrap.

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