Zero Punctuation: Left 4 Dead 2 & New Super Mario Bros Wii

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As always hilarious, though I do have to agree...I want to play Half-Life 2 Episode 3 already. Oh well I guess I will just have to keep myself entertained with L4D 1 and 2 while I wait.

Hah. Once again it is proven that L$D2 is a crappy expansion pack of L4D.

Spot on as far as L4D2 goes. It's more of an expansion, but considering how much I've played it, it was well worth the cost.

I can't say much for "new" Mario bros as I haven't yet played it, but apparently I have played it. So does that mean I can bash/praise it now?

Mazty:

SOrry, you have not shown how liking this joke of a game is no different to whacking off over films from the 60's or cars from the 40's. As I have said, all it shows is the person hasn't actually played a wide variety of games if they enjoy it. Either that, or people are much more easily entertained (Read brain-dead) than I had imagined.
Pong was fun, Tetris was fun etc. SMB was fun, but should have evolved. It hasn't - it's just the same crap rehashed and for some reason people are happy to pay good money for it.
By the way, could you work on your grammar as it was pretty dire in your post.
You say it'll be selling in 2012. I bet the Wii will be flooding ebay by then and worth jack-sh*t all. Fact is most Wii owners have no idea what a game is, they just get easily entertained by bright colours etc. If you grabbed someone who'd never played a game before and gave him Tetris, he'd think it was the cream of the crop - same here with the Wii in general. If you get someone whose played games for a long time, and a variety, they'll tell you tetris, SMB etc were good, but now are just lame. Simply put, there are games that do the same, but better.
Plus, it's people like you who are killing the industry as you have no idea between quality and fun (See Tetris comments).

Are you for real? Are you serious? Because if you are, then I don't know what to say...
People like you makes me sick, literally.

Tetris was fun? Are you kiddin' me? There's a reason why Tetris is one of the most played video game of all time. It's simple to pick up and just play, and it's FUN, you know, ENJOYABLE. That's some of the reasons why people still play Tetris today. I know I still play it. Question is, have you ever played Tetris or are you just plain stupid? The whole concept of Tetris is genius. It's a great puzzle-game. And you also say SMB was fun? Oh my god.

Some Wii owners don't know what a game is? Haha? Are you trolling? Because I think you are. There's no reason for anyone to quote you. Heck I just had to.

If you'd give someone, who has played video games for a long time, a copy of Tetris (or SMB) then they'd thank you for giving em' a great game. Good games aren't lame, there's a reason why they are good games.

haha, it's funny when a person like you write this:

Mazty:

Plus, it's people like you who are killing the industry as you have no idea between quality and fun (See Tetris comments).

People like YOU are killing the industry.

Just god, I hope you're trolling.

F*ck you, whoever you are.

(ps, take your time to carefully read through Abyss Master's comment, protip.)

Ienjoygames:

Mazty:

SOrry, you have not shown how liking this joke of a game is no different to whacking off over films from the 60's or cars from the 40's. As I have said, all it shows is the person hasn't actually played a wide variety of games if they enjoy it. Either that, or people are much more easily entertained (Read brain-dead) than I had imagined.
Pong was fun, Tetris was fun etc. SMB was fun, but should have evolved. It hasn't - it's just the same crap rehashed and for some reason people are happy to pay good money for it.
By the way, could you work on your grammar as it was pretty dire in your post.
You say it'll be selling in 2012. I bet the Wii will be flooding ebay by then and worth jack-sh*t all. Fact is most Wii owners have no idea what a game is, they just get easily entertained by bright colours etc. If you grabbed someone who'd never played a game before and gave him Tetris, he'd think it was the cream of the crop - same here with the Wii in general. If you get someone whose played games for a long time, and a variety, they'll tell you tetris, SMB etc were good, but now are just lame. Simply put, there are games that do the same, but better.
Plus, it's people like you who are killing the industry as you have no idea between quality and fun (See Tetris comments).

Are you for real? Are you serious? Because if you are, then I don't know what to say...
People like you makes me sick, literally.

Tetris was fun? Are you kiddin' me? There's a reason why Tetris is one of the most played video game of all time. It's simple to pick up and just play, and it's FUN, you know, ENJOYABLE. That's some of the reasons why people still play Tetris today. I know I still play it. Question is, have you ever played Tetris or are you just plain stupid? The whole concept of Tetris is genius. It's a great puzzle-game. And you also say SMB was fun? Oh my god.

Some Wii owners don't know what a game is? Haha? Are you trolling? Because I think you are. There's no reason for anyone to quote you. Heck I just had to.

If you'd give someone, who has played video games for a long time, a copy of Tetris (or SMB) then they'd thank you for giving em' a great game. Good games aren't lame, there's a reason why they are good games.

haha, it's funny when a person like you write this:

Mazty:

Plus, it's people like you who are killing the industry as you have no idea between quality and fun (See Tetris comments).

People like YOU are killing the industry.

Just god, I hope you're trolling.

F*ck you, whoever you are.

(ps, take your time to carefully read through Abyss Master's comment, protip.)

Well you clearly have no idea what a game is and probably have played bugger all. So until you have expanded your horizons, you won't understand my point.
And what little world are you living in? If you gave someone whose being playing games for a long time, such as myself and my mates, Tetris, they'd say "Oh yeah, good back then, but now it's the game equivalent of throwing a ball against a wall."
And how am I killing the industry by insisting on innovation and development?
Sorry, clearly you are a kid who is just trolling as your argument is ridiculous at best.
And mature way to end it. Well enjoy being immature, bets are I'm better than you in every way. Good day to you.

Abyss Master:

bjj hero:
Then get an emulator and play mario 3. This is a redundant title. Multi-player is not an inovation. Weve been doing multi player platforming since before contra.

You've never played Mario like this though. Your argument only holds water in the most general view on gaming. Of course multiplayer has been done before. But four player Mario? Never. Saying that the game has been done before is as shallow as saying that every FPS is exactly the same. People may use it as an argument, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a pretty shitty argument.

Saying all innovations have been made is a cop out. Recently we've had an explosion in fps (horde mode), motion controls (wii, Natal), touch screen (DS), music games (guitar hero, rock band) to name the first few from the top of my head. None of these were around 10 years ago.

Actually, motion controls were around ten years ago. I'm sure you remember all the NES peripherals. Music games have certainly been around for a good while, though Guitar Hero revolutionized the genre. And FPS and innovative doesn't really go together anymore.

I also seriously doubt there is much challenge in Mario Wii as there will be auto save/save points.

If a stage is friggin' hard then it will still be friggin' hard even if you saved before it. The challenge isn't in having to start all over, it's in progressing.

As I have said, all it shows is the person hasn't actually played a wide variety of games if they enjoy it.

Your statement was proven false before you even made it. Gamers all over have played and enjoyed this game.

Either that, or people are much more easily entertained (Read brain-dead) than I had imagined.

Instead of assuming that everyone else are stupid, why don't you reflect on yourself instead? Not saying that YOU're the stupid one, but rather that your perception on both gaming and gamers is faulty as fuck.

Pong was fun, Tetris was fun etc. SMB was fun, but should have evolved. It hasn't - it's just the same crap rehashed and for some reason people are happy to pay good money for it.

Super Mario Bros., Pong and Tetris have something in common. They're played to this day. Tetris could very well be the most played game in the world.

Why?

Because they're FUN. And with that, I mean that they're fun even after the tenth goddamn playthrough. NSMBW will keep the players playing, because no stage and no playthrough is ever the same. They made sure of that when they put in the multiplayer.

You say it'll be selling in 2012. I bet the Wii will be flooding ebay by then and worth jack-sh*t all.

That's what they said about 2009 in 2006.

Fact is most Wii owners have no idea what a game is, they just get easily entertained by bright colours etc.

Fun fact, no Wii owner buy a Wii for anything other than games. Your argument contradicts itself. Wii owners are Wii owners because they wanted to play Wii games.

If you grabbed someone who'd never played a game before and gave him Tetris, he'd think it was the cream of the crop - same here with the Wii in general. If you get someone whose played games for a long time, and a variety, they'll tell you tetris, SMB etc were good, but now are just lame. Simply put, there are games that do the same, but better.

No game is doing what NSMBW is doing.

The old "they don't know any better" argument has been pulled ever since the Wii's launch, and it seems that some people still can't get into their heads that there MIGHT be one other explanation, one that doesn't require spewing shallow gaming stereotypes ala omgcasualz.

Plus, it's people like you who are killing the industry as you have no idea between quality and fun (See Tetris comments).

It's time for you to shut the f*** up about what other people do and don't know, and realize your own shortcomings when it comes to understanding and perceiving the "industry". Customers, be it a "casual" or a "hardcore" gamer, can never be wrong about the industry. Why? Because they're the f***ing customers. THEY decide what's good and what's bad. If they like something, you better damn believe that there's a good reason for it, and not "because they don't know any better", because that's bullcrap.

Amen, Bro

To Mazty:

I don't know how old are you, but even if im only 24, i had a nes as a kid (with the glove and the carpet mind you), i played a LOT of super mario bros, 1, 2, 3, ninja gaiden 3, contra, jackal, and a LOT of older games, heck i even played a (don't remember the name) shooter on the atari 2600, with that damn joystick.

at that time nintendo & mario was a revolution a good control a full world to discover, it was amazing, then the super came, my parent;s didn't buy it so i player super mario world and all stars in a friends house, castlevania dracula X, the 3 megaman X games, street fighter, super metroid, secret of mana. after that i jumped in the ps1 bandwagon with ff7, after that i went back and played almost half of the supernes jrpg on emulators, like (star ocean 1, tale sof phantasia, rudra no hihou, live a live, super mario rpg, final fantasy 4,5,6, seiken densetsu 3, chrono played 4 times one in the crap ps1 port).

played a lot of fighting games and jrpgs, played fucking wolfestein 3d and duke nukem 3d on a pentium 2 processor at 233 mhz with 64mb and 8mb ram (i think), played commander keen, a pacman clone when computers used DOS 5.something with a 5 1/4 diskette.

never played much mario 64, it was good but i bored me, i loved ocarina and played a bit of goldeneye, loved the first smash to death.

and all the way until now, soi don't know if i fill into your "casual" crowd or in your"you haven't played games" crowd.., even more, because i played a LOT is because i get bored with these movie-games that we have now, i want the simplicity but hard to master of old games.
when i see most games now i just see PC games on consoles, maybe thats why i love the wii and nsmbw, because it doesn't want to be a PC, just a console to play games, that's all it does, it doesn't do everything like the ps3, just games.

I just don't like when people talk about casuals liek they were "retarded" with you put that word in articles, magazines and forums you get what the some gamers think of them, like if they were a single entity (56 millions or something like that), i don't consider myself, casual or retarded but i now have less time to play so small doses are a blessing for me, that's maybe my love with the ds, (that and the swarm of jrpgs in the system).

call me and old fashioned, i don't think im hurting the "industry", well, actually, you know what, heck i could care less about the insdustry, is just mountains of hype months before release for games now, i just hate that, is just games, nt the second comming of christ!, damn.

proably that's why i see the zero pucnt. vids, because there is no hype in them (well only portal), it is a funny way to kill games, and i liked even this one, but i had to express my dissent with his arguments, and i have been just doing that, telling my reasons.

And sorry about my english is not my first language.

jdnoth:

MB202:

jdnoth:
Theory: Nintendo is spiting Yahtzee by overtly making the same mistakes over and over again.
Mario is dead in every shape and form; but if Nintendo made a third Golden Sun game I might actually buy a Nintendo console again. Or at least not end friendships when I find out a mate owns a Wii.

Also, did Yahtzee just get through a review of a Wii exclusive, without ripping on the Wii once?

They ARE making a new Golden Sun, for the DS. It will be supposedly released next year. And Mario isn't dead. Not even close, if you ask me. His popularity his high, and unlike Sonic, he doesn't just have nostalgia to back him up, he has awesome gameplay.

The "new" Golden Sun is just a remake of the first, and you are a fanboy.

How do you know that? Are you, like, part of the development team or something? Can you see into the future? Or are you just using that calling me a fanboy as an excuse to cover up the fact that you don't know what you're talking about?

Mazty:

Well you clearly have no idea what a game is and probably have played bugger all. So until you have expanded your horizons, you won't understand my point.
And what little world are you living in? If you gave someone whose being playing games for a long time, such as myself and my mates, Tetris, they'd say "Oh yeah, good back then, but now it's the game equivalent of throwing a ball against a wall."
And how am I killing the industry by insisting on innovation and development?
Sorry, clearly you are a kid who is just trolling as your argument is ridiculous at best.
And mature way to end it. Well enjoy being immature, bets are I'm better than you in every way. Good day to you.

I bet I've played more games than you have.
Are you even reading your comments? What the fuck do you know about what ppl say about Tetris, go out and ask a real gamer yourself and you'll get your answer.
You're pathetic. Stop trolling around.

I'm hearing the same ignorant ramblings on here again and again. People disapprove of Nintendo "repackaging the same game again." It has been 15 years since Nintendo had a 2d sidescrolling Mario on a console. God, the repetition is killing me!

How many Call of Duty games have there been? Resident Evil games? Is there not a new EA Football, Basketball, Hockey and Cricket game every year, with very little in the way of upgrades, that still charges the same full price? Does the same not apply to Rock Band and Guitar Hero?

The truth is, just about everyone is continually rehashing their old titles over and over, and just about everyone ELSE is stealing from those titles because they don't have an original bone in their body. The medium is overall lacking in good ideas right now.

Twilight Princess got to me at times because so much of it was a retread. It was still, however, a much more original experience and a much more fun game than the last Resident Evil and the last Grand Theft Auto.

Matzzllleey,

Are you reading what you're typing? "Imagine if hollywood tried to sell us on nostalgia..." Quick, class, separate into 2 groups, and don't share your results with the other half. Now, on side A, I want you to list as many old T.V. shows, toys, movies, comic books and pulp novels have been remade into movies and T.V. shows. Now, on side B, I want you to list the few that have not been remade. Ok, let's tally them up. Now, which side has the bigger list?

Some of your arguments compel me to think you would have to live in a bubble to follow such a path of logic. "Imagine if some other big company did this..."

As far as Mario is concerned, read my above post and then try to tell me I'm a "corporate tool" because I don't go spend all my hard-earned money on every new and shiny trend that comes along, or because I stopped watching Kevin Smith films when I was 20. (Oh, snap!)

LoL at the assassin demon-thing at the end :D

It's sad that a game that's over 4gigs in new content can be labeled as "expansion title".

But honestly, I never expect to hear accuracy when listening to Zero Punctuation. But it's insanely funny most of the time and is fun to listen to. But this is like the complete opposite of being accurate. L4D2 is going to be in the running for GoTY, and so will NSMB Wii. There are gamers that truly enjoy the old games and are saddened that these amazing games are a thing of the past. Now Nintendo rewards it's CORE group of fans by with this and people cry foul.

In short, both of these games will be vying for the GoTY award from many publications. It's sad that Yahtzee is ignoring the fact that these are both great games.

Nintendo release another Mario game and that's awful. Meanwhile Yahtzee can't wait for the next Half Life game from Valve. Bit inconsistent...

Apparently NSMB isn't as good as Yoshi's Island, but we aren't given any reason for this decision.

It sounds like Yahtzee most likely didn't even play the game to be honest.

Ienjoygames:

Mazty:

Well you clearly have no idea what a game is and probably have played bugger all. So until you have expanded your horizons, you won't understand my point.
And what little world are you living in? If you gave someone whose being playing games for a long time, such as myself and my mates, Tetris, they'd say "Oh yeah, good back then, but now it's the game equivalent of throwing a ball against a wall."
And how am I killing the industry by insisting on innovation and development?
Sorry, clearly you are a kid who is just trolling as your argument is ridiculous at best.
And mature way to end it. Well enjoy being immature, bets are I'm better than you in every way. Good day to you.

I bet I've played more games than you have.
Are you even reading your comments? What the fuck do you know about what ppl say about Tetris, go out and ask a real gamer yourself and you'll get your answer.
You're pathetic. Stop trolling around.

Wow, what an argument. All you are saying is "STFU I KNOW BETTA THAN YOU!"
How about you actually come back with a constructive argument?
Come on, how am I killing the industry when you are the one who does not insist of development?
I and my mates have been gaming since the SNES, so yeah, I'd consider their opinions as the talk of gamers.

funguy2121:
Matzzllleey,

Are you reading what you're typing? "Imagine if hollywood tried to sell us on nostalgia..." Quick, class, separate into 2 groups, and don't share your results with the other half. Now, on side A, I want you to list as many old T.V. shows, toys, movies, comic books and pulp novels have been remade into movies and T.V. shows. Now, on side B, I want you to list the few that have not been remade. Ok, let's tally them up. Now, which side has the bigger list?

Some of your arguments compel me to think you would have to live in a bubble to follow such a path of logic. "Imagine if some other big company did this..."

As far as Mario is concerned, read my above post and then try to tell me I'm a "corporate tool" because I don't go spend all my hard-earned money on every new and shiny trend that comes along, or because I stopped watching Kevin Smith films when I was 20. (Oh, snap!)

Nice strawman. If you actually listen to the critics, they would tell you a massive problem in the artistic industry (music & film) is the lack of originality. How many remakes are considered better than the originals? And making a book into a film hardly consists of not being original as the mediums are so vastly different.
Plus you clearly have no idea what you are on about. Resident Evil mixed things up with RE4, which was a huge success, and also original. CoD mixed it up with MW1, but I'm not a fan of the other titles, especially the new one due to the lack of creativity, and that it's just not a very good game.
And could you please enlighten me as to how GTA4 was not original, considering it was a reworking of the series? I wasn't a fan of it, but hardly was it just a re-tread of previous titles...
As for the Kevin Smith comment, I don't get it, especially coming from the guy with a fat beast for his avatar...

Decent review man, but even though there both four player co-op the games are really nothing alike, its like reviewing Call of duty and Halo in a bundle, woulda prefered it if it was more like the Left 4 dead 2 review this week and New super mario bros wii next week. Still good though.

Mazty:

Nice strawman. If you actually listen to the critics, they would tell you a massive problem in the artistic industry (music & film) is the lack of originality. How many remakes are considered better than the originals? And making a book into a film hardly consists of not being original as the mediums are so vastly different.
Plus you clearly have no idea what you are on about. Resident Evil mixed things up with RE4, which was a huge success, and also original. CoD mixed it up with MW1, but I'm not a fan of the other titles, especially the new one due to the lack of creativity, and that it's just not a very good game.
And could you please enlighten me as to how GTA4 was not original, considering it was a reworking of the series? I wasn't a fan of it, but hardly was it just a re-tread of previous titles...
As for the Kevin Smith comment, I don't get it, especially coming from the guy with a fat beast for his avatar...

Okay, one topic at a time. "Straw man." Didn't I already gently suggest you stop using this word? It's overused and overrated; it has itself become a cliche, one of those cheap insults you throw at someone when you think it will make him look bad to the ill-educated.

Second sentence in and you've swapped arguments. I'm telling you, you have quite a career as a pundit ahead of you. But perhaps I'm incorrect and you merely misunderstood me. I was calling you out for suggesting that video game companies other than Nintendo, as well as the whole of Hollywood, are not in the business of artistic cannibalism. Now you suddenly appear very much aware of said cannibalism as you are suddenly unaware of your own statements, and you are a crusader for the different, the subversive, the iconoclastic, dammit! I would agree that originality is what is most lacking in the realms of entertainment and art, and I wouldn't require some hack/failed filmmaker of a critic to tell me that. That's why I picked on you a bit for claiming to be this rebel when your avatar is a director whose entire career is based upon Star Wars and comic references and dick jokes. (I did like Zack and Miri, though)

You're spinning this like crazy though with your (what's the name for this type of) argument, so let's get the debate back on track. I am aware that ONCE in the history of Resident Evil and ONCE in the history of Call of Duty, they decided to go in a radical new direction and completely revamp the series. This happened many times with Mario, and with Zelda, and with Metroid. And, for every occasion, I say good for them. I also have to say that, after (I believe) 17 years bringing the home console market another 2D Mario was a damned good idea. You of course would argue that its more banal regurgitation and anyone dumb enough to be suckered into the atrocity that is New Super Mario Brothers Wii is nothing but a corporate tool. Because you did.

I just wanted to point out, again, that every major entertainment company, ESPECIALLY the video game publishers, are doing this. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a straw man to eat crow with.

Edit: I'm glad you're also a closet chubby-chaser. That woman has a career because so many men pleasure themselves while looking at her, didja know that? But that won't stop some faceless troll from calling her a fatty-fat-fattikins, now will it?

Worth noting: the first time I tried to watch this video it froze up near the middle when he was naming the NSMBW characters so it came out "Mario, Luigi-" and paused for a few seconds. I thought that was the joke. I laughed. I was disappointed to find that it wasn't.

funguy2121:

Mazty:

Nice strawman. If you actually listen to the critics, they would tell you a massive problem in the artistic industry (music & film) is the lack of originality. How many remakes are considered better than the originals? And making a book into a film hardly consists of not being original as the mediums are so vastly different.
Plus you clearly have no idea what you are on about. Resident Evil mixed things up with RE4, which was a huge success, and also original. CoD mixed it up with MW1, but I'm not a fan of the other titles, especially the new one due to the lack of creativity, and that it's just not a very good game.
And could you please enlighten me as to how GTA4 was not original, considering it was a reworking of the series? I wasn't a fan of it, but hardly was it just a re-tread of previous titles...
As for the Kevin Smith comment, I don't get it, especially coming from the guy with a fat beast for his avatar...

Okay, one topic at a time. "Straw man." Didn't I already gently suggest you stop using this word? It's overused and overrated; it has itself become a cliche, one of those cheap insults you throw at someone when you think it will make him look bad to the ill-educated.

Second sentence in and you've swapped arguments. I'm telling you, you have quite a career as a pundit ahead of you. But perhaps I'm incorrect and you merely misunderstood me. I was calling you out for suggesting that video game companies other than Nintendo, as well as the whole of Hollywood, are not in the business of artistic cannibalism. Now you suddenly appear very much aware of said cannibalism as you are suddenly unaware of your own statements, and you are a crusader for the different, the subversive, the iconoclastic, dammit! I would agree that originality is what is most lacking in the realms of entertainment and art, and I wouldn't require some hack/failed filmmaker of a critic to tell me that. That's why I picked on you a bit for claiming to be this rebel when your avatar is a director whose entire career is based upon Star Wars and comic references and dick jokes. (I did like Zack and Miri, though)

You're spinning this like crazy though with your (what's the name for this type of) argument, so let's get the debate back on track. I am aware that ONCE in the history of Resident Evil and ONCE in the history of Call of Duty, they decided to go in a radical new direction and completely revamp the series. This happened many times with Mario, and with Zelda, and with Metroid. And, for every occasion, I say good for them. I also have to say that, after (I believe) 17 years bringing the home console market another 2D Mario was a damned good idea. You of course would argue that its more banal regurgitation and anyone dumb enough to be suckered into the atrocity that is New Super Mario Brothers Wii is nothing but a corporate tool. Because you did.

I just wanted to point out, again, that every major entertainment company, ESPECIALLY the video game publishers, are doing this. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a straw man to eat crow with.

Edit: I'm glad you're also a closet chubby-chaser. That woman has a career because so many men pleasure themselves while looking at her, didja know that? But that won't stop some faceless troll from calling her a fatty-fat-fattikins, now will it?

No really, straw man. And immature at best.
Since when did I say that only Nintendo were unoriginal? I didn't. I criticised Super Marios Bros Wii for not being original.
Rebel? What are you on about? Plus clearly you have never seen Clerks 1 & 2, or the critically acclaimed Chasing Amy. How about you actually watch said films rather than trying to claim a successful director is a failure.
Because I did? Erm, what did I apparently do? How about less personal attacks like an immature, insecure child, and a more constructive, adult argument?
Why are you bringing up Zelda or Metroid? How does 2D->3D make something radical? Zelda certainly hasn't done anything radical since Ocarina of Time. And how was 2D Mario a good idea? Saying it just is means nothing.
Closet chubby chaser? I go to the gym 3 times a week and live by the ideal that fat people are pretty much a disgrace to humanity, and a symbol of human decadence. And I would proudly say that to her face as I find her offensive on many different levels. Grow the f**k up, your argument just consisted of personal attacks, hollow statements and you digressing.

Mazty:

I let everything go as just some ranting and raving fanboy, and then I got to the part where you basically said that everyone who owned a Wii was dumb.

That was not only lame but extremely stupid.

Mazty:

Wow, what an argument. All you are saying is "STFU I KNOW BETTA THAN YOU!"
How about you actually come back with a constructive argument?
Come on, how am I killing the industry when you are the one who does not insist of development?
I and my mates have been gaming since the SNES, so yeah, I'd consider their opinions as the talk of gamers.

Again, do you even reading your own comments?

Mazty:
If you gave someone whose being playing games for a long time, such as myself and my mates, Tetris, they'd say "Oh yeah, good back then, but now it's the game equivalent of throwing a ball against a wall."

Once again, how the fuck do you know that? Exactly, you don't.
It's funny how you said that I was only saying "STFU I KNOW BETTA THAN YOU!" when clearly, you're the biggest ass here.

Ask someone who has played a little bit longer than the SNES era (If you'd been playing games since the Atari era, then I'd be impressed)

"when you are the one who does not insist of development?"

Now, exactly where did I say that? I myself own both a PS3 and a 360 (Wii too), enjoy most of the games I have on those systems.

Mazty:

Why do people like playing old games?

I noticed another fun comment made by you...
Yes, why do people like playing old games? Hmm I don't know, maybe because they're fun? Maybe?
But according to your own theories, all old games are bad games.

Good games are still good games, protip.

Ienjoygames:

Mazty:

Wow, what an argument. All you are saying is "STFU I KNOW BETTA THAN YOU!"
How about you actually come back with a constructive argument?
Come on, how am I killing the industry when you are the one who does not insist of development?
I and my mates have been gaming since the SNES, so yeah, I'd consider their opinions as the talk of gamers.

Again, do you even reading your own comments?

Mazty:
If you gave someone whose being playing games for a long time, such as myself and my mates, Tetris, they'd say "Oh yeah, good back then, but now it's the game equivalent of throwing a ball against a wall."

Once again, how the fuck do you know that? Exactly, you don't.
It's funny how you said that I was only saying "STFU I KNOW BETTA THAN YOU!" when clearly, you're the biggest ass here.

Ask someone who has played a little bit longer than the SNES era (If you'd been playing games since the Atari era, then I'd be impressed)

"when you are the one who does not insist of development?"

Now, exactly where did I say that? I myself own both a PS3 and a 360 (Wii too), enjoy most of the games I have on those systems.

Mazty:

Why do people like playing old games?

I noticed another fun comment made by you...
Yes, why do people like playing old games? Hmm I don't know, maybe because they're fun? Maybe?
But according to your own theories, all old games are bad games.

Good games are still good games, protip.

...So, how am I killing the industry as you claimed before?
What would you then define as a gamer? I define it as someone who has played a vast majority of games and can objectively say something is good, even if they don't personally like it, e.g. Ratchet and Clank is a good platformer, but I can't stand that genre/it's not aimed for people of my age.
I've been playing since the Amiga (Golden Axe and other games), then the SNES, N64 and pretty much everything inbetween. So have a lot of my friends.
SMB Wii is just showing how a company can remake a game from over a decade ago, with next to no improvements and it'll still sell buy the truck load. Imagine if they just released Ben Hur in HD then chucked that into the cinema. Hopefully, no one would give a toss. So why is it different for games?
And how are old games fun when they generally look like sh*t, handle like sh*t, and if the could, they would smell of sh*t? Please find me an old game which is really good IN COMPARISON to modern games.
And with your logic you are saying that games have not evolved/improved since their first creation if old good games are still good...You sir are full of sh*t. Take something like Driver. Was a great game, now it looks like crap, sounds like it, and handles like it. Why? Because the industry has improved since the days of the PS1.
Please, can you actually think about what you're saying before frantically typing.

Why do the first two people to comment on a Zero Punctuation always get put on probation? Good review btw. Oh and 'Matzy' I've yet to find a puzzler as addictive as Tetris or an RPG as replayable as Pokemon or KOTOR. Immersion and fun is what matters with a game not age or technical specifications.

Mazty:

No really, straw man. And immature at best.
Since when did I say that only Nintendo were unoriginal? I didn't. I criticised Super Marios Bros Wii for not being original.
Rebel? What are you on about? Plus clearly you have never seen Clerks 1 & 2, or the critically acclaimed Chasing Amy. How about you actually watch said films rather than trying to claim a successful director is a failure.
Because I did? Erm, what did I apparently do? How about less personal attacks like an immature, insecure child, and a more constructive, adult argument?
Why are you bringing up Zelda or Metroid? How does 2D->3D make something radical? Zelda certainly hasn't done anything radical since Ocarina of Time. And how was 2D Mario a good idea? Saying it just is means nothing.
Closet chubby chaser? I go to the gym 3 times a week and live by the ideal that fat people are pretty much a disgrace to humanity, and a symbol of human decadence. And I would proudly say that to her face as I find her offensive on many different levels. Grow the f**k up, your argument just consisted of personal attacks, hollow statements and you digressing.

Why don't you read it again? You're arguing with me but you're not arguing with what I'm saying. I'm not going to repeat myself. You can read it again if you want to know what you're actually debating. But you won't, because you're trolling. That's why you included the comment that fat people are a disgrace, without making any exceptions for people who are overweight because of thyroid deficiencies or genetics.

It's pointless to try and debate you, because you already know everything and have nothing to learn for yourself. So I'll just watch you try to tear apart everyone else's arguments without actually reading them.

Mazty:
What would you then define as a gamer? I define it as someone who has played a vast majority of games and can objectively

That right there is the problem here, that very last word. We can't objectively say which games are better or more fun as easily as one might think.

Gaming itself is a form of leisure, of fun, Yahtzee himself says this. Fun, though, is subjective, not objective. What one finds fun someone else might find boring. The person who finds that one thing fun isn't wrong, nor is the one who finds it boring. There's never any accounting for taste.

We can analyze production values and innovation till the cows come home, but the only thing that matters in the end is that a game is fun. Gaming, by definition, can never die as long as the games being made are enjoyed by someone.

The line in the sand argument of hardcore vs casual is an inherently ridiculous waste of time, and is something that should be wiped off the face of the internet.

2D platformers aren't for everyone. This doesn't mean that they themselves should be abandoned, nor does it mean that the people who don't enjoy them are wrong. Probably the biggest fallacy here is the assumption that they're obsolete because we having 3D platformers. One is not superior to the other, 3D is not inherently better because it's one number higher, they're just two different styles of gaming.

New Super Mario Bros Wii is not the same game as SMB3 or SMW. Just like SMB3 is not the same game as SMB. If you look at it superficially, you might be able to make that claim. But just playing it for any length of time will let any reasonable person see the difference. Aside from the obvious diffrences in levels, power ups, and multiplayer, even the physics are different. Jumping physics is slightly floatier this time around, shaking the Wiimote (as gimmicky as that might be) gives Mario a slight bit of extra air and really skilled players can make excellent use of that feature to do things unskilled players can't. Kinda like an innovation, y'know? This is all besides the various interactive layers in the levels that even the SNES wouldn't have been able to pull off, or the levels that use real sources of lighting in pitch-black caves giving you an extra bit of strategy when using the fire flower.

Most importantly, NSMBWii is a bridging game. There are countless reports of hardened non-gamers jumping in with this game. It levels the playing field in a way that doesn't make the skilled gamer feel bored, or the unskilled feel overwhelmed. Players can help one another out, or if they're so inclined make each other's lives hell. Frankly, that's fun in its own way too.

Innovation doesn't just come with new gameplay concepts. NSMBWii bridges a rather wide gap between gamers and non-gamers fairly easily for anyone that will give it an honest shake. That itself is also an innovation worth noting. Gaming is not something that should be segregated and made inaccessible due to the fear of catering to casuals. Gaming is supposed to be a fun activity, and it is only benefited by bringing more people on board. NSMBWii facilitates that far better than any other so-called 'dumbed down' game prior to it.

I've been, and remain, a fan of Yahtzee since the beginning. But this review was a disappointment. I understand his grievances with Nintendo, though I don't agree with all of them, he has always in the past given them at least the smallest bit of recognition for what they have done. None of that was in this video. It's possible this is due to him sharing it with another game, and thus not having the time to really delve deeply into one or the other, and he just made the unfortunate decision to do nothing but gripe instead of giving a fairer review. Here he did nothing but spout hate and ignorance of the game he was reviewing. I know he's an entertainer first, but this review really hurt his credibility in my eyes.

The mainstream isn't always right, but it isn't always wrong either. And sometimes, just sometimes, when someone flies in the face of what's popular he might not be a visionary or a rebel. He might just be wrong.

funguy2121:

Mazty:

No really, straw man. And immature at best.
Since when did I say that only Nintendo were unoriginal? I didn't. I criticised Super Marios Bros Wii for not being original.
Rebel? What are you on about? Plus clearly you have never seen Clerks 1 & 2, or the critically acclaimed Chasing Amy. How about you actually watch said films rather than trying to claim a successful director is a failure.
Because I did? Erm, what did I apparently do? How about less personal attacks like an immature, insecure child, and a more constructive, adult argument?
Why are you bringing up Zelda or Metroid? How does 2D->3D make something radical? Zelda certainly hasn't done anything radical since Ocarina of Time. And how was 2D Mario a good idea? Saying it just is means nothing.
Closet chubby chaser? I go to the gym 3 times a week and live by the ideal that fat people are pretty much a disgrace to humanity, and a symbol of human decadence. And I would proudly say that to her face as I find her offensive on many different levels. Grow the f**k up, your argument just consisted of personal attacks, hollow statements and you digressing.

Why don't you read it again? You're arguing with me but you're not arguing with what I'm saying. I'm not going to repeat myself. You can read it again if you want to know what you're actually debating. But you won't, because you're trolling. That's why you included the comment that fat people are a disgrace, without making any exceptions for people who are overweight because of thyroid deficiencies or genetics.

It's pointless to try and debate you, because you already know everything and have nothing to learn for yourself. So I'll just watch you try to tear apart everyone else's arguments without actually reading them.

Actually you're the troll. Yes I generalised about fat people, I don't think they are all bad etc, but that's digressing.
But yeah, I asked you many questions to which you replied to none e.g. How is a new 2D Mario a "damned good idea"? Please actually be up for a debate if you make statements like that with no backing, if not, it's just trolling. Which you can do somewhere else buddy.

Bryy:
Mazty:

I let everything go as just some ranting and raving fanboy, and then I got to the part where you basically said that everyone who owned a Wii was dumb.

That was not only lame but extremely stupid.

Because?
And I didn't say that. Though I'd say that most people who own a wii use it to gather dust. If that's a bright purchase in your eyes, then so be it.

So much blood and gore Yahtzee is missing out on, I have my special little gore slider set to maximum.

Mazty:
snip.

Toss around your random insults and self-contradicting claims all you want, Mr. Cliche man. You're obviously just looking for a fight, and you sure seem to think you'll get it by stereotyping millions of people as mindless corporate lackeys based upon one inexpensive purchase, swapping arguments, and tempting people to repeat themselves. I smell a stealth troll. How many people are you going to insult on here? As a person who does not already have the world figured out, I envy you.

funguy2121:

Mazty:
snip.

Toss around your random insults and self-contradicting claims all you want, Mr. Cliche man. You're obviously just looking for a fight, and you sure seem to think you'll get it by stereotyping millions of people as mindless corporate lackeys based upon one inexpensive purchase, swapping arguments, and tempting people to repeat themselves. I smell a stealth troll. How many people are you going to insult on here? As a person who does not already have the world figured out, I envy you.

Once again you completely ignore the questions I raised. Troll somewhere else.

I suppose the debate is wrapped, then. Spoonbardol, better articulated than I possibly could have stated it myself.

In one corner, we have a group of people who have played the game and say, "meh, I'm done with Mario," and in another, we have a group of people who (aside from DS owners) have been starved for a brand-new 2D Mario, hopefully one with enough to provide some "newness" to go along with the nostalgia, who cheer Mario's triumphant (in our opinion) return to glorious 2D, complete with 4-player multi and a rather steep challenge.

And in yet another corner we have people who have not even played the game who just want to tell everyone how stupid they are for disagreeing with them, or for actually being informed, people who embody the definition of the word troll by attacking numerous people at once and cursing at them, blanketing people with stereotypes and, when identified as a troll, spout the word right back in the vein of one Paul Ruebens.

MattzzeeEEy, I know I am but I know you are but what am I?

Edit: Sorry. I didn't realize you'd played the Amiga. Tell us the gospel, then...

funguy2121:
I suppose the debate is wrapped, then. Spoonbardol, better articulated than I possibly could have stated it myself.

In one corner, we have a group of people who have played the game and say, "meh, I'm done with Mario," and in another, we have a group of people who (aside from DS owners) have been starved for a brand-new 2D Mario, hopefully one with enough to provide some "newness" to go along with the nostalgia, who cheer Mario's triumphant (in our opinion) return to glorious 2D, complete with 4-player multi and a rather steep challenge.

And in yet another corner we have people who have not even played the game who just want to tell everyone how stupid they are for disagreeing with them, or for actually being informed, people who embody the definition of the word troll by attacking numerous people at once and cursing at them, blanketing people with stereotypes and, when identified as a troll, spout the word right back in the vein of one Paul Ruebens.

MattzzeeEEy, I know I am but I know you are but what am I?

Edit: Sorry. I didn't realize you'd played the Amiga. Tell us the gospel, then...

Seriously, troll somewhere else. You never answered my questions/explained why SMB Wii is such a good game. Why is it so good and not a gimmick? Please explain otherwise you are nothing more than a trolling fanboy.

You do realize this is a very adolescent way of bullying someone, right? (looks up Maztee's age). Oh.

I suggest you look at earlier posts from myself and others. I've already pointed you in some specific directions, but because you're being dishonest about your real intentions, that will not satisfy you. You believe that if you suggest I'm something negative if I don't do X, then you can cause me to do X, and you'll celebrate the control over me that you imagine this gives you.

But I'm not interested in repeating myself over and over again to a person who lacks a fundamental understanding of anything that anyone has stated on this thread. I could define "troll" once more for you, but you obviously won't get it and anyone with half a brain can read the last page, or the one before it, and clearly see that word epitomized.

Now get on with the task of torpedoing this thread with your troll tactics.

funguy2121:
You do realize this is a very adolescent way of bullying someone, right? (looks up Maztee's age). Oh.

I suggest you look at earlier posts from myself and others. I've already pointed you in some specific directions, but because you're being dishonest about your real intentions, that will not satisfy you. You believe that if you suggest I'm something negative if I don't do X, then you can cause me to do X, and you'll celebrate the control over me that you imagine this gives you.

But I'm not interested in repeating myself over and over again to a person who lacks a fundamental understanding of anything that anyone has stated on this thread. I could define "troll" once more for you, but you obviously won't get it and anyone with half a brain can read the last page, or the one before it, and clearly see that word epitomized.

Now get on with the task of torpedoing this thread with your troll tactics.

I'm sorry, but your immature way of misspelling Mazty is pathetic, and just shows the kind of mentality I'm having to deal with.
You specifically said another 2D Mario "is a great idea". I asked why, to which you then have not stopped screaming "TROLL".
Seriously, grow up as you seem to have the inability to discuss the topic at hand in any mature sense.

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