Seems like Yahtzee does manage to get away with quite a bit.
Seems like he was hungy at the time he was writing the article
K, saying that L4D had a setting and characters and atmostphere.. but that the lack of story line makes it "a mere piece of toast", i.e. a thing that is inferior to a "proper" story sandwich - Absolute rubbish. Many books, films and gallery art peices draw their value entirely from setting, and atmostphere alone. This idea of story line being the sole indicator of an artistic soul (eh!), is so antiquated and shallow. L4D had a bigger impact on me, art-wise, than any final fantasy or Tim Schafer game i've played so far.
Stories are more than joined up plot points. It's the way you tell them that is the hard thing. You can have deep and complex plot based enterprises that are utter shite due to bad story telling. Or you can have relatively static settings, with little plot progression, but that are truely epic because of the way they're portrayed.
Narrative is also something you interject at your own discretion, onto anything. Tetris has a narrative according to some people. This isn't to say they're wrong, so long as you can narrate the actions of a game in someway; it will have narrative potential. But to say that this is a special feature of games, which should be considered on the same level as good gameplay design... sorry, no agreement here. TF2 has no story line, other than the one which you get by reading the comics on their website, or which players themselves impose onto the characters. Still is one of the best games out there imo.
N shut up about the God thing! It isn't funny! It will only ever make people wryly smile or nervously laugh, cos those you offend are only trying to cover up their annoyance with you. And those who agree with you will sink into a "yea! yea, heh!" kinda state, and have the rest of their focus taken up with making the leap to the bandwagon.. which is so crowded that people cant tell the wheels from the rolling piles of stale old corpses.
I agree with everything you had to say. Great insight.
I haven't got NSMBW yet, but I will. I think the gameplay is so good, that new levels and a couple of new suits, plus multiplayer is enough to satisfy my need for innovation.
It was a rather intresting blog, although I suppose I don't really understand why people get so peeved at a Mario game doing something similar. I mean even in the article Yahtzee explains how every Mario game is different up until NSMBWii. Yet him and a lot of other people have been giving NSMBWii a lot shit for being the same when there are a lot of other franchises out there there that have sequels, and they are pretty much almost a reimaging of the original yet no one gives them shit for being the same. :/ I guess I just don't get the hatred towards the game.
Again, no. There are many new levels, some new power-ups, a 4-player versus option, a 4-player versus component, motion controlled areas and the Super Guide. This is not the same game.
Anyone else find that incredibly ironic?
I really can't understand this antipathy towards this new Mario game. Hasn't every Zelda game follwed what is essentially the same formula as it's predecessors with a new gimmick or two?
Even with the transition into three dimensions, they kept the core gameplay, and those games would have worked in the old top-down format.
Look at the DS iterations of Zelda. Quite similar to the SNES/Gameboy era. Utilizing the stylus, but essentially unchanged.
Adding new elements to a much-loved formula is okay.
What I'm worried about is Mario Galaxy 2. Couldn't they think of a new setting?
After space, where the hell are you supposed to go? And don't say Alternate Dimensions and cross overs please.
wait no...they have already done inside a body,
but trust me, Nintendo will find a way,
they always do.
What about Mario: Time Space Continium (yes I know he said it as a joke but I think too much)
A Mario where Mario travels through time to fight with his ancestors (pirate Mario, knight Mario, Future Mario) to rescue Peach from a time travelling Bowser whoose kind of like the Terminator. Time travelling could be done kind of like in Mario Galaxy with Mario flying through space.
Just a thought?
The God comment made me rather happy. I hate religion, so, so much.
I prefer faith over religion.
So, you don't want people to make new Mario games with the old game mechanics, you'd rather have them make remakes? Good God, every other article you write is a contradiction to yourself.
Also, yes, L4D2 doesn't really have a story, not a big one anyway... although it has a lot of backstory for the observant. That doesn't change the fact that it's 3 times bigger than the first one. I wish everyone would make bigger sequels but have them be cheap expansions. I'd be less poor but get to play a lot more games... Then game making companies would go broke and go out of business... Then I'd have no choice to exercise a lot... Then I'd get all strong and stuff... Then I'd come to your house and punch you in the face for making me over think things!
Bajo from ABC TV's Good Game series, brought up how he knows people who will buy and play every new Mario game regardless of perceived quality simply because "it's Mario." I responded - in retrospect, a little too hastily - with "yeah, it's like talking to people who believe in God."
I hope Mario gets eaten by Bowser in the final cutscene of the next Mario game along with a message "THE END". That way we will simultaneously get closure and humour.
Humour yes, closure no. Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story proved that.
Personally I prefer the 2.5D to full on 3-D in platforming so i respectfully disagree with Yahtzee on this point. Though I agree on the L4D2 points.
Good point on the toast part, an excellent time waster if anything else for L4D2. I can relate to that, loved L4D1 and L4D2 basically gives me more to enjoy.
I really feel to properly enjoy Yahtzee I am going to have to get around to trying Branston Pickles.
i think that Yahtzee had a good point addressing the 4 player co-op problems in new super mario, but i did think its was alot more fun when i was playing with just a really good friend(not gay). I would like to hear how he felt about playing with only one or two more players, also what about the "coin battles" where its more or less encouraged to be an ass hole?
Good points made in this one. I can't really say I disagree with anything mentioned. Our culture and what we are starting to welcome as acceptable, or even "good" is becoming very depressing.
I really think Mario Wii should be the LAST 2d mario game.
I got it because i never had a chance to play the originals and i'm not a big fan of emulators, although i would of bought them just as readily.
It's nice to have a new well polished mario game if you aren't already bored to death of the series, but where can they take it now?
I just can't see them releasing another one, it'd have to be almost exactly the same. It's not as though Mario gets by for it's level design anymore.
I think i could tolerate Galaxy 2 and maybe one other 3d one. The rpgs are all exactly the same so we have enough of those. Seriously though Nintendo, give it a break and think of a new series for a change. Metroid and Zelda are only heading down the same path.
While I enjoyed NSMBWii (despite its flaws), it is true that Nintendo needs to come up with a new gameplay mechanic.
If the crappy Mario's Time Machine was ignored, I'd say a nice time travel bit...
I didn't read this article... Well, I read the first paragraph, and the first sentence of the second, but anyway, I didn't read it, mostly because I played New Super Mario Bros. Wii and liked it, and Yahtzee gave a pretty lame reasons for saying the game "had no right to exist". Seriously, even if you don't like Nintendo, and I can understand why, saying that a game shouldn't even exist, unless if full-out sucks like "Ninjabread Man", is just plain cruel.
But, like Yahtzee said in his Brawl Mail Responds video, if my opinion is different from his, I shouldn't let it get to me, which it hasn't, thankfully. Still, I found it very hard to enjoy Yahtzee's videos after that... And the Monkey Island review.
Just throwing it out there.
"Super Mario Galaxy 3: coming out in 2013 or so on the Wii." I can see it now. Nintendo has milked nostalgia for its worth in this generation. Now it needs to follow the GTA, Prototype, inFamous, (etc.) agenda of exploration (Galaxy 2 has even shown signs of exploration with the comet medals). Perhaps something like Sunshine where every spot has a blue coin or shine.
Imagine this: Super Mario All-Stars 2, coming out on the Wii 2 (as it will probably be called), with all 2D Mario Bros. and Mario World games AND Mario 64.