Zero Punctuation: Demon's Souls

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Verrenxnon:
The 'supposed to lose fight' is an arbitrary, lackluster trope in the context of a videogame; removing choice from a medium defined by it reduces the medium.

It is? I can think of so may things that might be "arbitrary lackluster tropes," but "have to lose fights" as part of a tutorial, especially a fight that is actually possible to win, doesn't come to mind. Even if it is as you say, Demon's Souls does it pretty damn well.

Everyone on here who is criticizing demon's souls without actually playing it: why do you waste your life blubbering on pretending to know everything about video games? We all like what we like.

Demon's Souls is a good game. I've spent over 100 hours playing, have beat it like 8 times, have killed almost 200 invaders, and have had a damn fun time with it.

So then all these kids come around to stand behind Yahtzee's sarcastic bantering to throw rocks at the monumental achievement that is Demon's Souls and it looks just like you'd expect to anyone who has actually delved into it : children boasting about throwing rocks at a mountain.

lyrandar:
Quick thought, shouldn't it be Demons' Souls?

yes. maybe. i don't know. there is one big demon, maybe it's all his souls. or maybe you're really the demon, and it's all your souls. or maybe it's just one arbitrary demon's souls. whatever. they're japanese.

lyrandar:
Quick thought, shouldn't it be Demons' Souls?

Yes, and no. I hazard a guess that the title refers to the "Old One", and the "souls" referring to all the demons that have come about from its awakening. Hence "Demon's Souls".

zondervan:
Yahtzee, for whatever reason, probably gave up after an hour or two of play, and wrote a review for it.

To be fair, the game-play he presented took me about 4 hours to achieve....

Verrenxnon:
The 'supposed to lose fight' is an arbitrary, lackluster trope in the context of a videogame; removing choice from a medium defined by it reduces the medium.

It is not arbitrary in this case. The boss fight is still part of the tutorial, and getting yourself killed by the Vanguard lets the game address both what happens when you die and the Nexus/what it has to offer you. If anything, it is actually a rather novel way of presenting a tutorial.

Axikal:

lyrandar:
Quick thought, shouldn't it be Demons' Souls?

Yes, and no. I hazard a guess that the title refers to the "Old One", and the "souls" referring to all the demons that have come about from its awakening. Hence "Demon's Souls".

Also, if I recall correctly,

. If so, that could explain the title.

yzzlthtz:
Demon's Souls is a good game. I've spent over 100 hours playing, have beat it like 8 times, have killed almost 200 invaders, and have had a damn fun time with it.

I'm quite positive I never want to be "alive" again. Invaders wrack my nerves. And the game's already nerve-wracking enough on its own!

But I certainly agree with everything you've stated elsewhere in your comment.

Demon's Souls is an example of a difficult game done right. The tutorial serves only to warn you just how hard the game is about to get. And just about every single monster, boss, or trap in the game can be circumvented. IF you're cunning enough to figure out their weakness. And for anyone that claims DS is about pattern recognition: I defy you to fight the Flamelurker. Go on.

For all the cheapery that the game tries to toss at you, it's up to you to be smarter. If there's an enemy that can spam your stamina (Gold Skeleton), take higher ground and spam it back with arrows. Or get better equipment, and upgrade your stats. Just like any RPG, there is some stat/level grinding one must do in some cases.

Not only that, but it's a very refined Action/RPG that will ultimately punish you for not thinking your actions through. It's a game that challenges you to be smarter. God forbid!

yzzlthtz:

Verrenxnon:
The 'supposed to lose fight' is an arbitrary, lackluster trope in the context of a videogame; removing choice from a medium defined by it reduces the medium.

It is? I can think of so may things that might be "arbitrary lackluster tropes," but "have to lose fights" as part of a tutorial, especially a fight that is actually possible to win, doesn't come to mind. Even if it is as you say, Demon's Souls does it pretty damn well.

Everyone on here who is criticizing demon's souls without actually playing it: why do you waste your life blubbering on pretending to know everything about video games? We all like what we like.

Demon's Souls is a good game. I've spent over 100 hours playing, have beat it like 8 times, have killed almost 200 invaders, and have had a damn fun time with it.

So then all these kids come around to stand behind Yahtzee's sarcastic bantering to throw rocks at the monumental achievement that is Demon's Souls and it looks just like you'd expect to anyone who has actually delved into it : children boasting about throwing rocks at a mountain.

Yeah I love how all the tools come out of the shed to gang up on a game they never played just because Yahtzee didn't like it enough to play it more than an hour. I guess these people never play a JRPG or a Mario game because daddy Yahtzee doesn't let them. Its sad to not have any taste of your own.

Photon987:
Also, if I recall correctly, --spoiler was here-- If so, that could explain the title.

I hope not... I'm barely halfway through. I have to keep taking breaks or I'll end up breaking something! I don't recall hearing that in the game, though... But it does make for an interesting theory on the title.

Right, now there's some things that need to be cleared up. You can in fact beat the boss that is supposed to kill you and you get a nice reward for doing so.
The game isn't THAT hard, you just need to keep your shield up and wear lighter equipment so instead of useless dodge you can dodge roll which gives you a split second of invincibility in the middle of the roll.
Thirdly, you REALLY need to use your shield at the end of the bridge in order to not get slain by the archers there.
Fourthly, after beating the "cow patty" demon you can summon other players for help which would help him on that bridge.
Fifthly, after beating the cow patty demon (which I shall henceforth call by his real name, Phalanx) you can go to all the other levels in the game and complete them in any order, the first part of the other levels are generally easier than the second part of the first.
Sixthly, dragon can be killed with a lot of arrows if you're getting sick of timing your runs and don't want to go in the tunnel
Seventhly, there are two rings in the very first level that a) make it harder for enemies to see you and thus you can have more 1 on 1 fights and b) increase your health to 75% when dead.
Lastly, once you learn how to stay alive it becomes a very rewarding experience. No matter how much you level you can die on the early stages since its as much an action game as it is an RPG and thus you need to become better, not just a higher level.

All that being said I was in tears laughing at this review. I just hope people give this game a chance, its my GOTY.

Common, Yahtzee! It's not that bad... okay, I have no place to talk about whether it's bad or not. I've beaten it 4 times, and am on "New Game++++." Also, if you think it's hard now, get to new game plus. Despite keeping your soul level and all of your items, weapons, armor, etc, the game nearly doubles in idfficulty, so all your stuff doesn't much help.

Third play through is the "I'm stonger than I need to be" playthrough, because after the second playthrough the game only gets about 8% harder per new game plus, so you end up leveling right past where you need to be, and then you can laugg in its face.

"Death isn't the handicap it used to be"

lol good review, even better obscure reference... loved that show i did.
can't wait to see what comes of the movie/new series idea's..

To paraphrase The Simpsons: Unlike American games, which reward knowledge, this Japanese game punishes ignorance.

I was playing it before Assassin's Creed 2 came out, and I was loving it - it's not that hard, as long as you know what to do.

Potato21:
Right, now there's some things that need to be cleared up. You can in fact beat the boss that is supposed to kill you and you get a nice reward for doing so.
The game isn't THAT hard, you just need to keep your shield up and wear lighter equipment so instead of useless dodge you can dodge roll which gives you a split second of invincibility in the middle of the roll.
Thirdly, you REALLY need to use your shield at the end of the bridge in order to not get slain by the archers there.
Fourthly, after beating the "cow patty" demon you can summon other players for help which would help him on that bridge.
Fifthly, after beating the cow patty demon (which I shall henceforth call by his real name, Phalanx) you can go to all the other levels in the game and complete them in any order, the first part of the other levels are generally easier than the second part of the first.
Sixthly, dragon can be killed with a lot of arrows if you're getting sick of timing your runs and don't want to go in the tunnel
Seventhly, there are two rings in the very first level that a) make it harder for enemies to see you and thus you can have more 1 on 1 fights and b) increase your health to 75% when dead.
Lastly, once you learn how to stay alive it becomes a very rewarding experience. No matter how much you level you can die on the early stages since its as much an action game as it is an RPG and thus you need to become better, not just a higher level.

All that being said I was in tears laughing at this review. I just hope people give this game a chance, its my GOTY.

Well put,you've more or less negated Yahtzee's review with this post.

I would put money on a bet saying that Yahtzee would have given Demon's Soul one of his glowing reviews had be played it prior to doing his weekly ZP reviews.
Perhaps Yahtzee should stop doing the weekly videos and just do things when he has good material. That way we wouldn't have to put up with these half-hearted reviews.

This is probably one of the best yet.

zondervan:

I would put money on a bet saying that Yahtzee would have given Demon's Soul one of his glowing reviews had be played it prior to doing his weekly ZP reviews.
Perhaps Yahtzee should stop doing the weekly videos and just do things when he has good material. That way we wouldn't have to put up with these half-hearted reviews.

Things don't work that way when you get payed to review.

It's just as well, the Japanese have no skill in making videogames beyond simple turn-based RPGs or erotic novels (and even those are highly questionable). And whenever an RPG that tries to copy the styles of American and European RPGs (by incorporating strong medieval themes and using a shit-load of european accents or by just simply NOT using turn-based combat and fucking ludicrous stories with characters who have absolutely no depth) is published by a Japanese company... it never goes over well (as far as I've seen). They should just keep making their shitty turn-based combat and ridiculous hairstyle themes. DON'T CROSS PETER MOLYNEUX, ANDREW GOWER, NOR BIOWARE NOR BLIZZARD! Filthy buggers whoever tries to top those guys in epic medieval games.

Photon987:

zondervan:

I would put money on a bet saying that Yahtzee would have given Demon's Soul one of his glowing reviews had be played it prior to doing his weekly ZP reviews.
Perhaps Yahtzee should stop doing the weekly videos and just do things when he has good material. That way we wouldn't have to put up with these half-hearted reviews.

Things don't work that way when you get payed to review.

That is really what its all about, getting the bills payed. I wonder if Yahtzee gets any joy out of doing these reviews anymore? He seems just as cynical as ever, but he also seems like he's tired; his heart just doesn't seem in it anymore.

Azaraxzealot:
It's just as well, the Japanese have no skill in making videogames beyond simple turn-based RPGs or erotic novels (and even those are highly questionable). And whenever an RPG that tries to copy the styles of American and European RPGs (by incorporating strong medieval themes and using a shit-load of european accents or by just simply NOT using turn-based combat and fucking ludicrous stories with characters who have absolutely no depth) is published by a Japanese company... it never goes over well (as far as I've seen). They should just keep making their shitty turn-based combat and ridiculous hairstyle themes. DON'T CROSS PETER MOLYNEUX, ANDREW GOWER, NOR BIOWARE NOR BLIZZARD! Filthy buggers whoever tries to top those guys in epic medieval games.

You have obviously never played the game as it is 10 times better than the fecal matter called Fable.

I have a friend that has this game. I asked her if it was any good... she said I don't know I only played it for five minutes. I didn't know why until I saw this.

zondervan:
That is really what its all about, getting the bills payed. I wonder if Yahtzee gets any joy out of doing these reviews anymore? He seems just as cynical as ever, but he also seems like he's tired; his heart just doesn't seem in it anymore.

1: He's already said he has the flu, hence why he sounds so down
2: It's his job. Obviously he has to do something to get paid. Or do you plan on creating a world in which all goods are given for free, and no one has to lift a finger? At some point, you need to come to grips with reality that jobs exist to pay for things like games, bills (cable, internet, et al.), books, and other luxuries; as well as living necessities like running water and food.
3: He's a bloody satirist. Why can't any of you get that? For the love of all that is holy, someone with some common sense please speak up before the droves of trollish imbeciles drown us in their gibbering masses!

Well excuse me for not posting something the second the video comes out, guess having a life prohibits me form posting anything someone might actually read!

zondervan:

Photon987:

zondervan:

I would put money on a bet saying that Yahtzee would have given Demon's Soul one of his glowing reviews had be played it prior to doing his weekly ZP reviews.
Perhaps Yahtzee should stop doing the weekly videos and just do things when he has good material. That way we wouldn't have to put up with these half-hearted reviews.

Things don't work that way when you get payed to review.

That is really what its all about, getting the bills payed. I wonder if Yahtzee gets any joy out of doing these reviews anymore? He seems just as cynical as ever, but he also seems like he's tired; his heart just doesn't seem in it anymore.

He really mailed it in this week, he didn't give the game much of a chance.

Sometimes I think he likes riling up people, disliking a game everyone likes for no good reason. An eloquent internet troll with a game review gig, if you will.

Azaraxzealot:
And whenever an RPG that tries to copy the styles of American and European RPGs (by incorporating strong medieval themes and using a shit-load of european accents or by just simply NOT using turn-based combat and fucking ludicrous stories with characters who have absolutely no depth) is published by a Japanese company... it never goes over well (as far as I've seen).

Demon's Souls is considered an advancement in modern RPGs, and is highly sought after in all three regions. Going so far as to having people in the UK start petitions to bring the game to their demographic. What the hell are YOU smoking?

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/rpg/demonssoul/review.html
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/demons-souls-review
http://www.gamecritics.com/brad-gallaway/demons-souls-review

et al.

In summary: You're an idiot.

rdrouyn:
He really mailed it in this week, he didn't give the game much of a chance.

Sometimes I think he likes riling up people, disliking a game everyone likes for no good reason. An eloquent internet troll with a game review gig, if you will.

sat⋅ire  [sat-ahyuhr]
-noun
1. the use of irony, sarcasm, ridicule, or the like, in exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice, folly, etc.
2. a literary composition, in verse or prose, in which human folly and vice are held up to scorn, derision, or ridicule.

-headdesk-

Axikal:

rdrouyn:
He really mailed it in this week, he didn't give the game much of a chance.

Sometimes I think he likes riling up people, disliking a game everyone likes for no good reason. An eloquent internet troll with a game review gig, if you will.

sat⋅ire  [sat-ahyuhr]
-noun
1. the use of irony, sarcasm, ridicule, or the like, in exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice, folly, etc.
2. a literary composition, in verse or prose, in which human folly and vice are held up to scorn, derision, or ridicule.

-headdesk-

He did a terrible job of satirizing the game as he missed out on many points of the game that were ripe for satire. Like the fact that you get invaded by black phantoms out of nowhere which causes frustration. Also the fact that the girl that levels you up wants you to "touch the demon inside of her". Again, for anyone that played the game, it seems pretty mailed in.

EDIT: I am normally a fan of Zero Punctuation, FYI.

rdrouyn:
He did a terrible job of satirizing the game as he missed out on many points of the game that were ripe for satire. Like the fact that you get invaded by black phantoms out of nowhere which causes frustration. Also the fact that the girl that levels you up wants you to "touch the demon inside of her". Again, for anyone that played the game, it seems pretty mailed in.

I've played the game (and happen to love it, mind you), and thought he did a fine job satirising the struggles of the game. What you're talking about is PARODY, not satire. Learn the difference. And don't try to speak for everyone. Only idiots do that.

If you didn't care for the video, fine and well dandy. Not all of his videos are hits, and I personally disagreed with his "views" on Dead Space; but in the end, ZP is meant to be ENTERTAINMENT. They're not full-on reviews of games like the rest of the Escapist site has. If you want in-depth reviews, go read them on the site. ZP is a satirical video series, nothing more. You might as well go to the AVGN for "reviews" of old NES games, if you're that stupid.

I, for one, don't expect Yahtzee to crap out gold every week. I do, however, come here to be entertained. If I wanted a review of a game, I'd go read a bloody review. And I suggest you do the same.

If you're a fan of the series, then how are you not getting the point of it? That's just even more mind-boggling.

--And a note of mention: Yahtzee tends to avoid the Multiplayer components of games, which is most likely why he neglected to go into detail on the Black/Blue Phantom aspects of the game. Read his "Extra Punctuation" article on Multiplayer. The whole point of the video was simply just to satirise the extreme difficulty of the game.

Axikal:

rdrouyn:
He did a terrible job of satirizing the game as he missed out on many points of the game that were ripe for satire. Like the fact that you get invaded by black phantoms out of nowhere which causes frustration. Also the fact that the girl that levels you up wants you to "touch the demon inside of her". Again, for anyone that played the game, it seems pretty mailed in.

I've played the game (and happen to love it, mind you), and thought he did a fine job satirising the struggles of the game. What you're talking about is PARODY, not satire. Learn the difference. And don't try to speak for everyone. Only idiots do that.

If you didn't care for the video, fine and well dandy. Not all of his videos are hits, and I personally disagreed with his "views" on Dead Space; but in the end, ZP is meant to be ENTERTAINMENT. They're not full-on reviews of games like the rest of the Escapist site has. If you want in-depth reviews, go read them on the site. ZP is a satirical video series, nothing more. You might as well go to the AVGN for "reviews" of old NES games, if you're that stupid.

I, for one, don't expect Yahtzee to crap out gold every week. I do, however, come here to be entertained. If I wanted a review of a game, I'd go read a bloody review. And I suggest you do the same.

If you're a fan of the series, then how are you not getting the point of it? That's just even more mind-boggling.

I expect to gain some insight about the game or get a feel about what he didn't like about the game. I also expect him to actually play through the game before criticizing/satirizing/parodying or however you want to call it. This was just the first review where it felt like he played the first two hours of a game and called it good. He's played through games that are much more terrible than Demon's Souls so forgive me for expecting that he woul
d actually play through it.

EDIT - Also he did mention some of the online components such as the messages so why would he neglect the blue and black phantoms?

I personally loved Demon's Souls, it's challenging enough to where you know what you did wrong and how to correct it but not hard enough to be completely frustrating.

at least most of the time...

Demon's Souls is clearly not for everyone, it's mind-numbing difficulty will put people off, but it is definitely a game that I would recommend people to at least try out as you will not encounter a game like it.

Also, just adding to the dodging bit, the dodge move is based on how much your equipment burden is. If it's under half of your maximum burden then you can roll around like a monkey. Above half probably gives you the result Yahtzee had and full or above equip burden won't let you roll at all. It's the little nuances that I find are pretty nifty with the game, like how holding a weapon with both hands increases it's power by 50%.

Overall, it's not for everyone, but I definitely recommend to at least try the game out.

Azaraxzealot:
It's just as well, the Japanese have no skill in making videogames beyond simple turn-based RPGs or erotic novels (and even those are highly questionable). And whenever an RPG that tries to copy the styles of American and European RPGs (by incorporating strong medieval themes and using a shit-load of european accents or by just simply NOT using turn-based combat and fucking ludicrous stories with characters who have absolutely no depth) is published by a Japanese company... it never goes over well (as far as I've seen). They should just keep making their shitty turn-based combat and ridiculous hairstyle themes. DON'T CROSS PETER MOLYNEUX, ANDREW GOWER, NOR BIOWARE NOR BLIZZARD! Filthy buggers whoever tries to top those guys in epic medieval games.

Bwahahaha.
you just illustrated a point i made in an earlier post so perfectly, so precisely, i just had to say "good job".

Axikal:

rdrouyn:
He did a terrible job of satirizing the game as he missed out on many points of the game that were ripe for satire. Like the fact that you get invaded by black phantoms out of nowhere which causes frustration. Also the fact that the girl that levels you up wants you to "touch the demon inside of her". Again, for anyone that played the game, it seems pretty mailed in.

I've played the game (and happen to love it, mind you), and thought he did a fine job satirising the struggles of the game. What you're talking about is PARODY, not satire. Learn the difference. And don't try to speak for everyone. Only idiots do that.

If you didn't care for the video, fine and well dandy. Not all of his videos are hits, and I personally disagreed with his "views" on Dead Space; but in the end, ZP is meant to be ENTERTAINMENT. They're not full-on reviews of games like the rest of the Escapist site has. If you want in-depth reviews, go read them on the site. ZP is a satirical video series, nothing more. You might as well go to the AVGN for "reviews" of old NES games, if you're that stupid.

I, for one, don't expect Yahtzee to crap out gold every week. I do, however, come here to be entertained. If I wanted a review of a game, I'd go read a bloody review. And I suggest you do the same.

If you're a fan of the series, then how are you not getting the point of it? That's just even more mind-boggling.

I get that everything Yahtzee says needs to be taken with an extreme grain of salt because he is paid to brutalize games. The problem is if you look through these comments they're always full of people that don't realize this and actually claim to buy games based on what he says. I mean you yourself responded to someone on this page who started rant about how bad this game was based on Yahtzee's "review". Now this is irritating enough for a large game like Uncharted 2 (which I feel very sorry for anyone that missed out on that one because of what Yahtzee said) but for a game like this that needs all the support it can get, it annoys me that anyone would be deterring people from playing this wonderful game.
The other thing is I do expect Yahtzee to play the fucking game. It's clear from the review he didn't really play it and he really could have gained some real insites and some legitimate stuff to make fun of if he had actually put more than an hour or two into it. I mean it's clear from the review he didn't even discover things like the multiplayer, leveling up or the other four levels. That's just lazy on his part.

And after watching this video, again, I stop to ponder where people are proclaiming Yahtzee is a "pussy". I've yet, (and I'm almost 75% done with the re-watch) to hear him complain about the difficulty. Rather, he cheekily pokes at the way the game toys with you, and pushes you into an almost alarming level of security, before cock-slapping you in the face, and sending you hurtling down into a crevasse.

--after 100% completion of my re-watch, the only place where Yahtzee even "gripes" is at the very end, and even then he's making use of metaphor to point out that Demon's Souls does approach you in a partly cheap manner, and you'd be daft to disagree. Or need I remind those who beat the Vanguard in Shrine of Storms 1-1 by going through the tunnel, standing in just partial view of it, and spamming it with arrows until it died? Or the entire Flamelurker boss battle in which he will randomly spam you with explosive (and excessively stamina raping) fire attacks?

All the video did was point out that at every turn, DS is difficult, and not n00b-friendly. If that's all it takes to scare people off, then good riddance. Cos' you lot helped ruin MW2.

rdrouyn:

EDIT - Also he did mention some of the online components such as the messages so why would he neglect the blue and black phantoms?

He clearly didn't get far enough in the game to even find out about these. Nor did he apparently read the manual.

Y'know what...nevermind.

axleblaze:
I get that everything Yahtzee says needs to be taken with an extreme grain of salt because he is paid to brutalize games. The problem is if you look through these comments they're always full of people that don't realize this and actually claim to buy games based on what he says. I mean you yourself responded to someone on this page who started rant about how bad this game was based on Yahtzee's "review". Now this is irritating enough for a large game like Uncharted 2 (which I feel very sorry for anyone that missed out on that one because of what Yahtzee said) but for a game like this that needs all the support it can get, it annoys me that anyone would be deterring people from playing this wonderful game.

You, good sir, are now getting a friend request.

Personally, I'm not very fond of the "hardcore game" genre. I shuddered at Devil May Cry, and came to the realisation that the series just wasn't in my playability scope. I moved on, and accepted that I suck at it. But what gets me is exactly what is getting you. People who use satirists as jumping points for their purchases. UC2 is a fantastic game (albeit short, and a bit shallow in some places), and anyone who didn't buy it, missed out.

Yes, Demon's Souls really could use a larger fanbase, because it stands out as a fantastic IP in the slew of annoying sequels, re-makes, re-imaginings, and half-assed attempts to capitalise on old franchises.

It's attitudes like the nay-sayers on here display that are ruining the potential for good games to succeed on the market. As I was once told: "A satisfied customer will go off and tell 10 people. A dis-satisfied customer will go off and tell 100 people."

What I learned from this:

Although ZP makes sure to complain about the casualization/dumbing-down of videogames in every fricking video, he is in actuality a gigantic vagina who can not handle a game with a little bit of difficulty.

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