On Nazis

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On Nazis

Yahtzee discusses the ultimate baddie: Nazis.

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I personally believe that Nazis believed that what they did would earn them the title of "hero" or "freedom fighter" in their respective culture, much like a religious extremist may believe when they attempt some manner of suicide mission.

Yes, Hitler made those moustaches unpopular, but managed to get them into the media.

Aliens vs. Predator water gun mode would be awesome.

I think anyone who has ever paid attention in history class knows about the Nazi's and their actions it's not old news. Putting them in every WW2 style game does get a little boring after defeating them oh say 10 times. Mix it up a little eh?

omg i did not need that very describing part about cooking mama at the end, how shall i sleep tonight.

and as far a nazis go, i think they are pretty annoying enemies, partly because of what you brought up with the lazy story telling, but mostly because the games usually get even lazier further in, the nazis have the best weapons so unless your an idiot who searches for hidden rooms so you can keep the crappy thompson your going to use them, they have awesome uniforms, while the allys all looked boring and bland, the nazis looked so awesome, and they stay in groups, mostly you just get send in there alone in a ugly outfit armed with a crappy weapon.

in most ww2 games i actually wished i was fighting for the nazis, i would have backup, access to all the cool toys and i would look stylish, if you cant keep me cheering for the good guys your doing it wrong.

This is why no bad guy in a game can possibly be a bad guy.

Either they're not as evil as the Nazis, or they're a clone of the Nazi's.

Star Wars' Storm Troopers themselves were based off of Nazis, [the last sentence of this was incredibly ignorant of me, *snipped]

SnootyEnglishman:
I think anyone who has ever paid attention in history class knows about the Nazi's and their actions it's not old news. Putting them in every WW2 style game does get a little boring after defeating them oh say 10 times. Mix it up a little eh?

Time travelling super nazis would be nice for once!

Regarding p.2: Best. Idea. Ever.

i love yahtzees ideas

If anyone has ever watched the Mitchell & Webb show then you may find this funny!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsNLbK8_rBY

If the Australian government and the world didn't have their heads stuck up their asses about censorship we wouldn't have the problem of people crying foul over games showing tits and blood.

When will parents and adults learn that all kids lose innocence when they go to public school.

What about the Nazis that attempted to assassinate Hitler? Many of them that were involved in the attempts perfectly understood the systemic evil that he was institutionalizing in the German government, and, as the war wound down, they even understood that they had to make (even an implausible attempt) in order to try to save the honor of their country in the eyes of history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20_July_plot

BTW, of course I know they were in the minority -- if there had been more of these people, than maybe Hitler wouldn't have survived the attempt!

Well, to quote Will Smith "I doubt Hitler woke up every morning and said to himself 'I'm going to do something evil'" which means, even if you're doing something most would quantify as evil, if you're doing it, you don't quantify it as evil.

This by no means a justification, obviously, but you could understand why a deluded prick who had been gassed might be just slightly out of whack with reality, not to mention his doctor gave him crystal meth daily.

That probably didn't prove conductive to a stable mind...

Great. Now I'll never look at Cooking Mama the same way without wondering if she wants to gut me. >_<

gavinfoxx:
What about the Nazis that attempted to assassinate Hitler? Many of them that were involved in the attempts perfectly understood the systemic evil that he was institutionalizing in the German government, and, as the war wound down, they even understood that they had to make (even an implausible attempt) in order to try to save the honor of their country in the eyes of history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20_July_plot

BTW, of course I know they were in the minority -- if there had been more of these people, than maybe Hitler wouldn't have survived the attempt!

Also this.

I have read many times when German troops were givin orders to "clense" villages, the captains only took volenteers. Most allowed soldiers to opt out of killing innocents.

Great article as always.

I always thought Nazis were popular baddies since society has kind of unanimously taken the moral high ground against them. Portraying other groups as the cartoony villains could get into some rather murky moral territory which developers (or just writers in general) kind of want to avoid for a mass-market product. Then again, Modern Warfare 2 had us shooting evil Russians, and FarCry 2 had us burning the African militia alive, so it seems the rules are flexible.

Aliens' kisses make my laugh...

And nazis didn't particularly think they were the good guys, more like they hated something different and felt they had the right to do it, based in dissinformation and media propaganda. Or did you think racists in the 60s never noticed that they were living an hyperbole?

ZeroDotZero:
Time travelling super nazis would be nice for once!

Hey, what about a game where a German soldier who tries to assassinate Hitler at a top-secret research lab gets thrown into an alternate dimension where the Americans are Nazis and the Germans are fighting for the freedom of the world?

Nazi vampires make for really interesting bad guys see Hellsing.

Otherwise i agree with yahtzee nazis are pretty boring enemies...

I can't even PLAY The Saboteur thanks to the bone-headed handling of PC compatibility. The beta patch isn't even working for me, nor is any other fix method.

Although I think maybe the Nazis are featured in game so much as some sort of overly-done 'we must not let history repeat itself here' ploy. Not that it's working all that well, but it's certainly a way to make sure the atrocities the Nazis committed won't be forgotten.

I would say that if I were a COMPLETE pillock, of course.

In actual fact I think it is just lazy writing. It is important to not allow history to be forgotten, but still, they could at least try and use the Nazis less.

Booze Zombie:

ZeroDotZero:
Time travelling super nazis would be nice for once!

Hey, what about a game where a German soldier who tries to assassinate Hitler at a top-secret research lab gets thrown into an alternate dimension where the Americans are Nazis and the Germans are fighting for the freedom of the world?

I believe something similar to this occurs in the Command and Conquer Red Alter series; I think Albert Einstien invents a time machine, goes back and kills hitler so WWII never happens, and instead it causes even more problems.

Well. my grandfather was a German soldier in WW2. He was forcefully drafted as was my grandmother. She was a nurse and both my grandparents were stationed in Paris and met each other there for the first time; it is quite a romantic story.

Although both of them were old-fashioned and conservative they did not believe in the system's
ideology. Everytime someone greeted my grandfather with "Heil Hitler" (Hail Hitler)" he responded if Hitler became sick at last only to be reminded by my grandmother that such a
sentence could get him deported to one of the camps.

The point of this anecdote: Not all soldiers or Germanīs during WW2 were inherently evil (no human being is) and many people did not believe in the ideology the way it is often portrayed.
Being silent is not the same as approval but yet punishment was feared and hence the silence.

Therefore I hate the portrayal of the evil Krauts in most games (and a bunch of movies) because back in the day human characters were not less complex than nowaday and the media could design more appropriate and compelling stories with that set of mind.

Booze Zombie:

ZeroDotZero:
Time travelling super nazis would be nice for once!

Hey, what about a game where a German soldier who tries to assassinate Hitler at a top-secret research lab gets thrown into an alternate dimension where the Americans are Nazis and the Germans are fighting for the freedom of the world?

Have you ever considered going into Game Development?

well, the bulk of the nazi army were just conscripts following orders. So basically all you're doing in them games is killing the loung men and women that go to fight because otherwhise their families will be harrased(in all gradations of the word) by the members of the nazi party. Did anyone ever think about that? In fact, during the actual war, most of the germans were either neutral or opposed to their countries ideals.

Oh, and don't get me started on the large(and socially accepted) nazi movements in the US in the 1930ies.

effilctar:
I personally believe that Nazis believed that what they did would earn them the title of "hero" or "freedom fighter" in their respective culture, much like a religious extremist may believe when they attempt some manner of suicide mission.

Heroes? No. Freedom fighters? No.

But patriots... war heroes (not the same thing)... brave men and women fighting for their country and their beloved dictator. Sure it was a blind love, sometimes out of fear, but it was some kind of love.

Still, it's not like every Nazi is/was a bad person. Wait, cross that. Not every German soldier was a bad person. Nazis, those that believed that other races are inferior and should be killed (like Hitler thought and said) were bad people.

But let's not forget that sometimes people would rather go to the army and kill some strangers than risk getting themselves or their families killed if they refused to enlist.

Booze Zombie:

ZeroDotZero:
Time travelling super nazis would be nice for once!

Hey, what about a game where a German soldier who tries to assassinate Hitler at a top-secret research lab gets thrown into an alternate dimension where the Americans are Nazis and the Germans are fighting for the freedom of the world?

Kind of hard to take you seriously when you imply that Americans fought for the freedom of the world. If by world you mean France and UK, then sure, freedom all around.

The thing I find the most interesting is that somehow almost no one person on earth ever seems to consider that Nazi soldiers were just that... soldiers. Doing what they where told to do, either believing it to be right or not thinking at all.
It's like blaming an US Soldier, stationed in Iraq, for all the bad things the Bush administration has done to civil rights or economy or whatever...
These people had nothing to do with all the stuff the higher ups decided. Hell, I'm convinced that not even all the higher ups had their minds set on eradicating all those other, lesser races. They probably had the same thing in mind that every form of military has in mind to this day. Win...
But 70 years past all that, the whole world has pretty much accepted that every single soldier who has ever fought for the Germans between 1939 and 1945 ate babies for breakfast and praised Satan in between daily sessions of genocide.

Ever played any first person shooter that had Nazis in it and thought to yourself : "I wonder if this guy has a family. Maybe he's doing this to feed his kids. Maybe it's his last day because tomorrow he'll have enough of this mindless fighting and BOOOOM there goes his head..."

I don't think that exposing tits in the saboteur was a good idea because I have a girlfriend and I won't get any if I think otherwise.

I think Nazis are the go-to-guys for baddies, because it's socially acceptable to murder them by the bucketload. Same thing with zombies. You know they are bad, you know there's no justification for them, you know you have to kill them.

So you're given cannon fodder enemies without them being outlandish aliens, or uncomfortable to kill (a lot of people got upset over black zombie murder).

Best. CookingMamaGame. Ever.

I would LOVE to see the AVP: hugs edition ^_^

(give it to Darth Atkinson as a gift, then purchase the DLC, then reveal it to the media, heh heh heh :P)

EDIT: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HitlerAteSugar

It's very true that not all Nazi soldiers were bad people.
Most probably weren't - even the ones involved in the most heinous acts of the war probably started out as perfectly decent chaps. However, it's easier to make them into villains because the alternative is to admit that the potential is there in all of us.

It's also true that Hitler didn't start out as an evil dictator. When he started out Germany was in a pretty bad state economically and he seemed like the man to make things better. His transition from German saviour to the Most Evil Man in History wasn't instant.

I was actually thinking the other day about the "play as a terrorist" level of MW2, I can't help but wonder if a level in one of the WW2 CoD games where you play as a young Nazi soldier would have been a more interesting prospect.

Doesn't it make you think the most notable people in history where just batshit crazy? Other people talking in their heads weird leather fetishes I just think that maybe if we ever do learn to time travel maybe we should send back a lot of psychiatrists.

lol
Ruined a perfectly good mustashe. What a crime; it dwarfs the other shit done.
lol lack of perspective.

Nazis? Yeah, by our math, all nazis are evil. Problem is, you're rarely actually killing nazis in video games, or on the WWII battlefield. You're killing the soldiers out fighting for their country, which happens to be controlled by nazis. On a related note, if I've got my history right here, then if you happened to ask one of said soldiers what their opinion of the Allies were, the term 'baby boiling bastards' would have likely come up. Pretty sure that's what the German propaganda going around at the time was. Or maybe that was North American propaganda...

The worst nazi soldiers were likely the ones raised from children to fight for Hitler. They had a specific name but I can't remember what it was. They were his elite troops though and pretty sure they're the ones that ran the concentration camps and what not.

The ideas of DLC for gore and nudity harkens back to the old "blood code" from the console version of Mortal Kombat. In order to see blood and fatalities, you had to hit a sequence of buttons on the Genesis controller. Very clever.

Jojo's Bizzare Adventure, the second arc of the manga. Nazis were researching an ancient race of vampiric supermen, ended up reviving one, and had to rely on the protagonist's group to defeat him. One of the Nazis gained the respect of the protagonist, and became a recurring ally character, never turning out to be an evil enemy insurgent. Nor do the Nazis continue trying to use the supermen for their own means - they appreciate the threat, and immediately begin trying to figure out how to destroy them. At several points in the story, the Nazis actually end up rescuing the protagonist, and are instrumental in defeating the antagonist.

While relations between the rest of the cast and the Nazies are suitably tense throughout, and there's a strong current of distrust and reluctance to be helped by them, the Nazi character was never shown to be a conventional moralist, or a man "forced to do unspeakable things against his better judgement, out of love for his country", as is usually the case. He is a Nazi because he believes in his leader - and yet, he's as well-rounded and likeable a character as any other in the series. It's the only instance of a Nazi character I can think of who's portrayed as neither an inhuman monster, or a saint who works behind enemy lines for the greater good.

Quite uncommon indeed - a portrayal of Nazis who aren't insane with lust for power, or meaninglessly evil. I thought it was interesting.

Rodger:
Nazis? Yeah, by our math, all nazis are evil. Problem is, you're rarely actually killing nazis in video games, or on the WWII battlefield. You're killing the soldiers out fighting for their country, which happens to be controlled by nazis. On a related note, if I've got my history right here, then if you happened to ask one of said soldiers what their opinion of the Allies were, the term 'baby boiling bastards' would have likely come up. Pretty sure that's what the German propaganda going around at the time was. Or maybe that was North American propaganda...

The worst nazi soldiers were likely the ones raised from children to fight for Hitler. They had a specific name but I can't remember what it was. They were his elite troops though and pretty sure they're the ones that ran the concentration camps and what not.

You're thinking of the SS (Shutzstaffel/protection force), they were the ones who ran the concentration camps and committed the worst atrocities. Not to be mistaken with the Waffen SS (Weapon protection/ force) which were Germany's military elite indoctrinated with SS views.

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