On Nazis

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Pirate Brahm:
The ideas of DLC for gore and nudity harkens back to the old "blood code" from the console version of Mortal Kombat. In order to see blood and fatalities, you had to hit a sequence of buttons on the Genesis controller. Very clever.

But as Hot Coffee showed, having disabled content on the installation media is not enough to avoid the censors' ire. And then there's Sims' official Barbie-doll physique and the third-party nude patches..

I do find it interesting that the Nazis are always singled out (They should be if elected dictator of the world for life I shall instate a White Power/BNP/Other Morons shooting gallery. If they take more than a minute to die you win ducky) but they seem to forget about the horrors of the East and the Japanese.

Stalin wasn't a sparkling example either.

Most German soldiers weren't members of the Nazi Party. Even then, the Japanese committed similar atrocities (read up on Unit 731) and Stalin killed much more people than Hitler did.

Most WW2 vets don't hold a grudge against the Germans, a lot of them do against the Japanese.

ok second page made my day! good suggestion. Cooking Mama comment instant gold XD

Shalkis:

But as Hot Coffee showed, having disabled content on the installation media is not enough to avoid the censors' ire.

They got in trouble because they didn't tell the censor this was built into the game. DLC patching means that you can tell the censor what you have done to keep the content locked from children :P

I would so love the day a game can come out M rated and with a optional DLC be turned into AO rated >:D

Sylias:
The thing I find the most interesting is that somehow almost no one person on earth ever seems to consider that Nazi soldiers were just that... soldiers. Doing what they where told to do, either believing it to be right or not thinking at all.
It's like blaming an US Soldier, stationed in Iraq, for all the bad things the Bush administration has done to civil rights or economy or whatever...
These people had nothing to do with all the stuff the higher ups decided. Hell, I'm convinced that not even all the higher ups had their minds set on eradicating all those other, lesser races. They probably had the same thing in mind that every form of military has in mind to this day. Win...
But 70 years past all that, the whole world has pretty much accepted that every single soldier who has ever fought for the Germans between 1939 and 1945 ate babies for breakfast and praised Satan in between daily sessions of genocide.

Ever played any first person shooter that had Nazis in it and thought to yourself : "I wonder if this guy has a family. Maybe he's doing this to feed his kids. Maybe it's his last day because tomorrow he'll have enough of this mindless fighting and BOOOOM there goes his head..."

I couldn't agree more. "And maybe this guy is doing this for the exact same reason I'm doing mine: patriotism and belief in a cause."

Screw shooting Russian civilians in airports, if games want to be more mature and intelligent then just "Call of America: Kill America's enemies) we should have a WW2 game set from the German point of view.

nazis , zombies , aliens in games get kinda old real fast , mesmaybe they should find something else to kill...as for hitler it is time to move on, what he did was wrong and his beliefs are bullshit ... the media at the time was censored but now the media is corrupt

Meh, I like killing Nazis.
Lazy writing? Sure.
Fun? For me, at least.
Worth criticizing? Not really, but at least Yahtzee is entertaining.

never thought the Wehrmacht as the bad guys, only the SS.

On the other hand, the german ppl did put Hitler in power so accountability is still there.

LimaBravo:
I do find it interesting that the Nazis are always singled out (They should be if elected dictator of the world for life I shall instate a White Power/BNP/Other Morons shooting gallery. If they take more than a minute to die you win ducky) but they seem to forget about the horrors of the East and the Japanese.

Stalin wasn't a sparkling example either.

AssButt:
Most German soldiers weren't members of the Nazi Party. Even then, the Japanese committed similar atrocities (read up on Unit 731) and Stalin killed much more people than Hitler did.

Most WW2 vets don't hold a grudge against the Germans, a lot of them do against the Japanese.

Only 200 000 deaths have ever been recorded that could be blamed on Stalin any other figure is an approximation as no other evidence survives to this day (or so we are told)

OT: People always seem to just use Nazis as an excuse for lots of things like Yahtzee says people often just stick a man in a grey uniform with no prior explanation in fact throughout various games you are expected to assume that they are bastards!

Lets face it if the airport scene had men wearing grey uniforms at any point or perhaps a german or austrian tourist people would not have cared!

You must have missed the McDonalds game for the NES/SNES.

DTWolfwood:
They got in trouble because they didn't tell the censor this was built into the game. DLC patching means that you can tell the censor what you have done to keep the content locked from children :P

But then again, even that might not be enough. Sims has only Barbie-doll physique models in-game, and that didn't stop Maxis from getting blamed for third-party nude patches.

Also, I bet that the censors will be quick to point out that age checks can be circumvented, and they sort of have a point. If the content exists, the kids can get someone to bypass the hurdles for them and get to the content. Thus, the censors think that the only safe option is to not to have any potentially obscene content at all.

effilctar:
I personally believe that Nazis believed that what they did would earn them the title of "hero" or "freedom fighter" in their respective culture, much like a religious extremist may believe when they attempt some manner of suicide mission.

I don't feel like it was so much about glory and heroism as it was fear. When Hitler shouts something and the entire gun-wielding army around you starts chanting...you don't want to be that one person who goes, "wait, this is a terrible idea!" because there's the fear that everyone around you will just kill you and keep chanting. I see it as more of a "I'll kill people to follow-the-herd for fear's sake" rather than "I can't wait to go down in history as the freedom fighter who slaughtered this helpless family."

I actually have two questions (am quite proud of myself for thinking them up, doesn't happen every day).

1. When will the industry realize than there have been enough games about WW2 and stop making any more. At least give us a break for a few years. Give us the chance to actually miss killing Nazi's.

2. Has McDonald's sued Yahtzee and the Escapist for the comment regarding the quality of their food. If yes, for how much money.

3. How come there is no badge for watching Zero Punctuation. There seems to be a badge for everything else.

(I know this is 3 and not 2 questions, but what can you do?)

The thing about Nazis is you completely obliterate the need for a vaguely balanced ideology for an enemy force (laziness) + they're westerners so no racism accusations either... Oh well. We can only hope for properly written, charismatic, deluded and non-reich-cloning bad guys some time far far in the future.

@Lovesfool: Probably because everyone watches ZP :)

DTWolfwood:
never thought the Wehrmacht as the bad guys, only the SS.

On the other hand, the german ppl did put Hitler in power so accountability is still there.

Hitler took power through extremely tricky political maneuvering. He pretty much manipulated Hindenburg into making him Chancellor, and then he gave himself complete power. There was no democracy in Hitler's rise. With the help of the Freikorps, who pretty much became the SA (who were later absorbed by the SS), Hitler strong-armed his way around political Germany with his own private army. He even attempted a coup.

So yeah, you can't hold the German people accountable for Hitler's rise.

Yahtzee:
Censors can't complain about corrupting the children because installing the adult content becomes a choice made by responsible human beings, as alien a concept as that might be to the Australian government.

...but if the buying and playing of the game apparently aren't choices made by responsible human beings (according to the Australian government), why would downloading extra content be any different?

I'm sick and tired of all media assuming that, by the time of Normandy, every single German soldier was a diehard, xenophobic sociopath

Most of them, towards the end, were disillusioned veterans, slightly unhinged antisematists, poor men down on their luck, or, the most COMMON background of all, a conscripted farmboy.

To say that their lack of general bloodlust can be absolved (in villany terms) by the fact they were defending a very loudly antisemite nation proves jack. hardly anyone knew about the death camps, people were too scared to disagree with the government, most of Europe at the time was antisemite anyway, and had been since, oh, ZERO ANNO DOMINI

I would give ANYTHING for a game on the German side. Starts as a farmboy, conscripted against his family's will right after D-Day, and taken to the frontlines of the German retreat, before he is either killed in Berlin in an emotional and terrifying climax, or he runs away (much like the current Pope) and returns to his family

Good article

i'd read an article on another site saying we should stop using Natzi's not because its lazy, but because it lessens the memory of what was endured in Natzi Germany by the people etc
interesting read, if i can find it, ill post a link

gavinfoxx:
What about the Nazis that attempted to assassinate Hitler? Many of them that were involved in the attempts perfectly understood the systemic evil that he was institutionalizing in the German government, and, as the war wound down, they even understood that they had to make (even an implausible attempt) in order to try to save the honor of their country in the eyes of history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20_July_plot

BTW, of course I know they were in the minority -- if there had been more of these people, than maybe Hitler wouldn't have survived the attempt!

What you've done here is open a whole can of worms. There is actually a difference between the Wehrmacht and the Nazi Party. Even watching Valkyrie would have given you a hint as to why removing the SS from the equation was important. Furthermore, there were 42 seperate attempts on Hitler's life, leading to this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitlekz83hawz

noooo WW2 shooters should never die!

the old timey weapons had so much more personality than modern day guns. Who among you shooter fans can say you don't like the semi auto Garand rifle and how it made the distinctive 'PING' noise when its empty! or the Lethality on which all k98 bolt action rifles seem to be in these games. I miss the single shot rifles that dont come with a sniper scopes attached! XD

The slow chug of a MP40 or the smooth spray of your Tommy gun. The crazy recoil of a STG44 or the weighty feel of a BAR. The streaming sound of a MG42 or the rat tat tat of the good old 30 cal. Walter PPk to the Unique Luger. Lets not forget the 1911 45 cal. pistol.

Man WW2 guns are just so much more fun than all the spray'n pray weapons of today.

Incidentally my fave gun now is the FAL in MW2 and ill let yall guess y ;)

GrinningManiac:
I'm sick and tired of all media assuming that, by the time of Normandy, every single German soldier was a diehard, xenophobic sociopath

Most of them, towards the end, were disillusioned veterans, slightly unhinged antisematists, poor men down on their luck, or, the most COMMON background of all, a conscripted farmboy.

To say that their lack of general bloodlust can be absolved (in villany terms) by the fact they were defending a very loudly antisemite nation proves jack. hardly anyone knew about the death camps, people were too scared to disagree with the government, most of Europe at the time was antisemite anyway, and had been since, oh, ZERO ANNO DOMINI

I would give ANYTHING for a game on the German side. Starts as a farmboy, conscripted against his family's will right after D-Day, and taken to the frontlines of the German retreat, before he is either killed in Berlin in an emotional and terrifying climax, or he runs away (much like the current Pope) and returns to his family

I completely agree.
Or perhaps it could be volunteer for the Wehrmact in the heady early days, Blitzkrieg through Poland and France before spending the next 4 years of living hell on the Eastern Front before being killed in Berlin.

Corporal Yakob:

GrinningManiac:
I'm sick and tired of all media assuming that, by the time of Normandy, every single German soldier was a diehard, xenophobic sociopath

Most of them, towards the end, were disillusioned veterans, slightly unhinged antisematists, poor men down on their luck, or, the most COMMON background of all, a conscripted farmboy.

To say that their lack of general bloodlust can be absolved (in villany terms) by the fact they were defending a very loudly antisemite nation proves jack. hardly anyone knew about the death camps, people were too scared to disagree with the government, most of Europe at the time was antisemite anyway, and had been since, oh, ZERO ANNO DOMINI

I would give ANYTHING for a game on the German side. Starts as a farmboy, conscripted against his family's will right after D-Day, and taken to the frontlines of the German retreat, before he is either killed in Berlin in an emotional and terrifying climax, or he runs away (much like the current Pope) and returns to his family

I completely agree.
Or perhaps it could be volunteer for the Wehrmact in the heady early days, Blitzkrieg through Poland and France before spending the next 4 years of living hell on the Eastern Front before being killed in Berlin.

THAT WOULD BE EPIC

Even better if there was a contreversial scene where, in first person, you partake in the swearing of alligence to Der Fuher after Nacht der Langer Messer (sp?)

Nazis aren't even Always Chaotic Evil (TM), look at stuff like KdF.

Actually, there is a game about how bad McFood is: http://www.mcvideogame.com/

Angerwing:

DTWolfwood:
never thought the Wehrmacht as the bad guys, only the SS.

On the other hand, the german ppl did put Hitler in power so accountability is still there.

Hitler took power through extremely tricky political maneuvering. He pretty much manipulated Hindenburg into making him Chancellor, and then he gave himself complete power. There was no democracy in Hitler's rise. With the help of the Freikorps, who pretty much became the SA (who were later absorbed by the SS), Hitler strong-armed his way around political Germany with his own private army. He even attempted a coup.

So yeah, you can't hold the German people accountable for Hitler's rise.

strong arm tactics or not, the german ppl cheered in glee waving their flags and doing their signature solute when Chancellor Palpatine Hitler came parading by in the early years b4 the SS struck fear into each an everyone of them.

But hey we've all been there when an idiot took power and dragged us into a war. ;)

Hmmm, without looking at the link can i ask something?

Why the hell do we still consider all Germans to be bad considering Hitler is long dead and it was only him that made Germany become bastards. Why must we now still use that evil term "Nazi" when its offensive to many and banned in some places. I hate when my boyfriend goes on about "Nazi Zombies", some weird game thing he plays. I hate it. I know a couple of people from Germany who were really nice and do not and never have supported Hitler's ideas in the past. Why must we still talk about German people as if they are scum. Its not fair... Ok now im going to watch the link.

You're absolutely right that the term Nazi is on par with demons and the devil. A seemingly "always-overtold-always-black-and-white" bad guy. Complete Zoroastrianism of good guy and bad guy no matter the cost.

Since when isn't buying something an "opt-in" action. No one spoon feeds these kids fucking video games.

Go on Timmy. Eat your god damn razer-Os in the morning.

Of course the nazis thougth they were the good ones. Eichmann even said that he always thougth himself to be acting according to the categorical imperative. That makes it even more amazing how the games industry is able to turn that into some kind of reaonsless cartoon-villianism. I would like to see more games about nazis that actually take time to show their twisted vision of the world and how it should be.

But then there would be the risk of some people interpretating immersive gameplay and accuarte story-telling as nazi propaganda.

There is a mod of WW2 where the Nazis have dino's and use for warfare most of any PC Gamers could play it cause its a source mod. And you play a pateologist. (Who of course is a american)

Corporal Yakob:

Rodger:
Nazis? Yeah, by our math, all nazis are evil. Problem is, you're rarely actually killing nazis in video games, or on the WWII battlefield. You're killing the soldiers out fighting for their country, which happens to be controlled by nazis. On a related note, if I've got my history right here, then if you happened to ask one of said soldiers what their opinion of the Allies were, the term 'baby boiling bastards' would have likely come up. Pretty sure that's what the German propaganda going around at the time was. Or maybe that was North American propaganda...

The worst nazi soldiers were likely the ones raised from children to fight for Hitler. They had a specific name but I can't remember what it was. They were his elite troops though and pretty sure they're the ones that ran the concentration camps and what not.

You're thinking of the SS (Shutzstaffel/protection force), they were the ones who ran the concentration camps and committed the worst atrocities. Not to be mistaken with the Waffen SS (Weapon protection/ force) which were Germany's military elite indoctrinated with SS views.

Actually, I think he's talking about the Hitlerjugend. They were all young children being prepared to be the next generation of Nazi Party members. Hook 'm while they're young.

As for the German army, I agree with the people defending the common German soldier. They were mostly scared something would happen to them or their families, so they did what they were trained to do. The propaganda put out by Goebbels and his crew helped keep people in the dark. Goebbels is seen as one of the most intelligent members of the Nazi Party. And don't forget a lot of Germans were still pretty pissed about how they were exploited to ruin by other European countries after WW1. Hitler was one of them.

Also, the German army didn't consist of only Germans, not by a long shot. They drafted a lot of soldiers from the countries they conquered. My grandfather was one of them. He was 18 when Germany invaded Poland and got put in the army by force. When the Allies invaded France he was there with a lot of soldiers forced to serve. They shot their commanders and defected to the Allies. He came back in a tank! True story :).

KDR_11k:
Nazis aren't even Always Chaotic Evil (TM), look at stuff like KdF.

The cliché nazi is lawful evil, not chaotic.

Looking forwards to play as an "nazi" in Heros of Stalingrad =)
Must be the first WW2 FPS where you have a singleplayer campain where you dont shoot Germans.

Another bash at the Aussie government, gotta love it, lol.

And Nazi'z...always good for cannon fodder, do enjoy the good shooting of a nazi. Although, have to agree it does feel to be shallower and shallower each time

=

crimsonshrouds:
Nazi vampires make for really interesting bad guys see Hellsing.

Otherwise i agree with yahtzee nazis are pretty boring enemies...

Hellsing is a load of tripe. The writing is bad, the only good bits were stolen from Vampire Hunter D (and other such better vampire fiction), and it commits the immortal sin of using the name Alucard, which was stupid when castlevania thought it up. The only thing i will ay for the series is both the anime and manga have good artwork.

Witty-Name:
It's very true that not all Nazi soldiers were bad people.
Most probably weren't - even the ones involved in the most heinous acts of the war probably started out as perfectly decent chaps. However, it's easier to make them into villains because the alternative is to admit that the potential is there in all of us.

It's also true that Hitler didn't start out as an evil dictator. When he started out Germany was in a pretty bad state economically and he seemed like the man to make things better. His transition from German saviour to the Most Evil Man in History wasn't instant.

I was actually thinking the other day about the "play as a terrorist" level of MW2, I can't help but wonder if a level in one of the WW2 CoD games where you play as a young Nazi soldier would have been a more interesting prospect.

You are correct sir, but the generally (and, following the nazi war trials, legally) held opinon is that "following orders" isn't an excuse when such "clearly" inhumane activity is in question. Apparently Nazi soldiers should have thrown down their guns when atrocity became present. They already ran france, they could have gotten lessons in how to do it. Also, playing as a nazi would have gotten the game banned almost worldwide (especially germany)

I think it's appalling how many people think history is what is in these games. WW2 is a fascinating study, and I wish more people would pay attention in classes about it. Ho-hum

At any rate, all of you jokers who keep saying that the worst thing hitler ever did was ruin the tiny 'stache for everyone, you are WRONG.

Nazi uniforms are MUCH snazzier than that stupid mustache ever was, and because im white and blonde with blue eyes, if i walk around dressed as an SS officer, people think im a racist terrible person. gah!

Well at the end of the day Hitler was just out for power, unlike most politicians he vouched to spread his influence through propaganda and fear.

I hate the Nazis with an absolute passion.

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