On Nazis

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Let's not forget one of the simplest reasons to make Nazis the bad guys in video games: the German people have publicly and thoroughly apologized for the actions of the Third Reich, and to this day (aside from a handful on the far-right fringes) the majority don't express romantic sentiments of Hitler's reign. They are perhaps the only defeated imperialists in history to thoroughly apologize in this manner.

This means when you make a game demonizing them, you don't get a rash of public complaints, because they've long since acknowledged their villainy. Whereas if you use any other nation, ethnic group or political faction, you're going to piss somebody off. You might piss off people with an embassy, who might get on TV or in the paper as a result, and that could be a PR nightmare. Even Ubisoft felt the need to put that disclaimer at the beginning of the first Assassin's Creed game because people still complain about the depiction of participants in wars that happened a thousand years ago!

ZeroDotZero:

SnootyEnglishman:
I think anyone who has ever paid attention in history class knows about the Nazi's and their actions it's not old news. Putting them in every WW2 style game does get a little boring after defeating them oh say 10 times. Mix it up a little eh?

Time travelling super nazis would be nice for once!

freedom force vs the 3rd reich went that road allready (well okay... one super nazi... with robots and monkeys....)

yaik7a:
There is a mod of WW2 where the Nazis have dino's and use for warfare most of any PC Gamers could play it cause its a source mod. And you play a pateologist. (Who of course is a american)

What? You've lost me somewhere in there.

Pegghead:
Well at the end of the day Hitler was just out for power, unlike most politicians he vouched to spread his influence through propaganda and fear.

I hate the Nazis with an absolute passion.

How is the propoganda different from any other politician? Hell, I'm pretty sure at one point an alabama congressman has even written "kill te jews" on a wall somewhere.

I think so. Maybe not.

Yahtzee, you forgot that people already have a choice. To BUY the game. What's the reason to buy a pile of shit and then pimp it out? When you buy something, you want it with full content. Why download anything while just checking a box would be more convinient? Oh yeah I forgot about those false curaders of righteousnes...

As for natzis, I don't think they were monsters. They just have a shitload of "bad press" In medieval times folks were doing much more interesting stuff while sacking cities. And gypsies got it as hard back then as jews did during WW2. It's just that gypsies weren't so "outspoken" (having a lot of money and connections would help them too). And as killing wasn't as organized as in natzi germany, the worse thing was that normal people were killing gypsies (and jews) as a good and healthy pastime.

Of course SS was a special bunch of people but such brainwashed organizations were happening all across the history.

Probably I just like killing natzis as half of my family died during WW2.

Any indie game developers interested in making a game about McDonald's Nazis?

8-Bit_Jack:

Pegghead:
-Snip-

How is the propoganda different from any other politician? Hell, I'm pretty sure at one point an alabama congressman has even written "kill te jews" on a wall somewhere.

I think so. Maybe not.

Well yes all politicians are going to do whatever they can in order to gain power. But when you think about it it's like comparing the Australia Labor party ads

To, well uh...Der ewige jude. An old propaganda film (It was originally an art exhibition) which compared Jews with vermin and associated them with Communism, And I'm not going to post it here for fear of getting banned.

DTWolfwood:

Angerwing:

DTWolfwood:
never thought the Wehrmacht as the bad guys, only the SS.

On the other hand, the german ppl did put Hitler in power so accountability is still there.

Hitler took power through extremely tricky political maneuvering. He pretty much manipulated Hindenburg into making him Chancellor, and then he gave himself complete power. There was no democracy in Hitler's rise. With the help of the Freikorps, who pretty much became the SA (who were later absorbed by the SS), Hitler strong-armed his way around political Germany with his own private army. He even attempted a coup.

So yeah, you can't hold the German people accountable for Hitler's rise.

strong arm tactics or not, the german ppl cheered in glee waving their flags and doing their signature solute when Chancellor Palpatine Hitler came parading by in the early years b4 the SS struck fear into each an everyone of them.

But hey we've all been there when an idiot took power and dragged us into a war. ;)

He played to their fears and hopes. He knew what problems people were dealing with, and he made them think he could fix them. Again, you can't hold the German people accountable. They weren't clapping for a mad-man who perpetrated genocide, but for a hope-inspiring leader. It's a bit ignorant to expect them to know what his plans were.

Hindsight is 20/20.

Hemothorax:
Actually, there is a game about how bad McFood is: http://www.mcvideogame.com/

shit, I was going to post this one :) you outran me :)

The food at McDonalds is pretty bad, too, but I never see you make games about that.

Ahem: Give Me The Brain

Check out all their other offerings as well. Cheapass Games do some wonderful stuff.

Corporal Yakob:

Sylias:
The thing I find the most interesting is that somehow almost no one person on earth ever seems to consider that Nazi soldiers were just that... soldiers. Doing what they where told to do, either believing it to be right or not thinking at all.
It's like blaming an US Soldier, stationed in Iraq, for all the bad things the Bush administration has done to civil rights or economy or whatever...
These people had nothing to do with all the stuff the higher ups decided. Hell, I'm convinced that not even all the higher ups had their minds set on eradicating all those other, lesser races. They probably had the same thing in mind that every form of military has in mind to this day. Win...
But 70 years past all that, the whole world has pretty much accepted that every single soldier who has ever fought for the Germans between 1939 and 1945 ate babies for breakfast and praised Satan in between daily sessions of genocide.

Ever played any first person shooter that had Nazis in it and thought to yourself : "I wonder if this guy has a family. Maybe he's doing this to feed his kids. Maybe it's his last day because tomorrow he'll have enough of this mindless fighting and BOOOOM there goes his head..."

I couldn't agree more. "And maybe this guy is doing this for the exact same reason I'm doing mine: patriotism and belief in a cause."

Screw shooting Russian civilians in airports, if games want to be more mature and intelligent then just "Call of America: Kill America's enemies) we should have a WW2 game set from the German point of view.

Funny thing is, the last couple of levels is killing just American soldiers. But I think that is a great idea. It would be interesting to see the war from the German point of view.

I'm wondering, how long does it take before people stop whining about past wrongs? I don't see people complaining and making games out of The Crusades, or the Spanish Inquisition. Just Nazis and WWII. Will it be 10 more years? 20? Or will WWII manage to keep being bitched on and have games made out of it until the world stops spinning?

They actually did make a videogame about mcdonalds.

The Nazi's were evil, but Yahtzee makes a good point. After over a hundred games that feature the Nazi's as the main villians, it really does start to get old and makes the creators of those games look lazy in the story development department. Creators of games, movies, and tv shows need to start showing more orginality.

The correct background music for reading this article

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MReV9dkAVhY

arent we forgetting that a propper nazi would hate everything to much to care what you thought about him anyway?

most germans were just swept up in a hatred movement because they were in a bad place economically and used a new wave of migrant workers as targets, they weren't all die hard nazis

its a good point about nazi's being lazy writing
i mean if i pitched a novel where the protagonist has to fight against an invading force of people from another country then I might have a shot at getting it sold but then if the publisher asks me why the force is invading his country and I replied, "cause they are just evil, trust me..." then I would get thrown the hell out of the publishers without a second thought
but because its history its ok?
hmm

Yahtzee:
My issue is, as real as they were, Nazis as the main baddies of a videogame are a case of rather lazy storytelling.

This is the core point he was trying to make right here, though I'm sure the vast majority of this thread (being a thread on an Internet Forum) would rather dwell on the greatly-conflicting-with-popular-sentiment truth that atrocities were committed constantly throughout history that match or exceed that of the Holocaust. There's a great deal more villains you can pull out of history than video games would have us believe, but by and large video games are hesistant to use them... probably because many of them are still in power.

I'm pretty sure the Romans did the first two things. Ever heard of Decimation?

nazis are and have always been and always will be lazy storytelling. unless you try something totally ridiculous (inglorious basterds) then its not worth trying. but given the games industry, nazis have tried everything from time-travelling to cloning to magic to industrialization to alien chatting and everything in between. there's nothing more nazis can do and, as you said, nothing more to kill nazis with.

btw, the idea of cooking mama going berserk and stabbing people is a wonderful idea that nintendo should adopt to win over its hardcore fanbase its been ignoring.

Ph0t0n1c Ph34r:

Corporal Yakob:

Sylias:
The thing I find the most interesting is that somehow almost no one person on earth ever seems to consider that Nazi soldiers were just that... soldiers. Doing what they where told to do, either believing it to be right or not thinking at all.
It's like blaming an US Soldier, stationed in Iraq, for all the bad things the Bush administration has done to civil rights or economy or whatever...
These people had nothing to do with all the stuff the higher ups decided. Hell, I'm convinced that not even all the higher ups had their minds set on eradicating all those other, lesser races. They probably had the same thing in mind that every form of military has in mind to this day. Win...
But 70 years past all that, the whole world has pretty much accepted that every single soldier who has ever fought for the Germans between 1939 and 1945 ate babies for breakfast and praised Satan in between daily sessions of genocide.

Ever played any first person shooter that had Nazis in it and thought to yourself : "I wonder if this guy has a family. Maybe he's doing this to feed his kids. Maybe it's his last day because tomorrow he'll have enough of this mindless fighting and BOOOOM there goes his head..."

I couldn't agree more. "And maybe this guy is doing this for the exact same reason I'm doing mine: patriotism and belief in a cause."

Screw shooting Russian civilians in airports, if games want to be more mature and intelligent then just "Call of America: Kill America's enemies) we should have a WW2 game set from the German point of view.

Funny thing is, the last couple of levels is killing just American soldiers. But I think that is a great idea. It would be interesting to see the war from the German point of view.

Too late already down with the endless multiplayer games set in WW2, thus another reason to never use Nazis as characters ever again

Surely it's when people buy the games they make the choice to experience its' content?

I agree with some of the things being said, but I also think that the whole sustained picture of the 1940's Nazi still hanging with us today is used to make a different impact rather than being the result of lazy storytelling.

Think about it for a second (well, it's a huge freaking wall of text so it might take a few minutes):

Nazis killed a lot of Jews during WW2, and after that the word "antisemitism" was born to "protect" Jews from ill treatment. You can be forced to pay large amounts of money for throwing shit at Jews but not for killing Muslims, invading countries, judging, blacklisting and banning people because of their religion or country of origin.

At the same time, Jews owns a great amount of the world when it comes to money (around 140 of the Forbes400 are Jews), they control all of the banks and a large amount of the media that is fed upon us every day. Every other documentary on any channel is about the evil Nazis and how they almost killed all Jews during a war that no one in present day even ever experienced. If a certain group of people controls what is being said and not about themselves and their "enemies", who knows what's true and not?

We have a corporation in my country called Bonnier Media, who controls over 70% of all the magazines and news papers being released, as well as other kinds of media. History magazines are always filled to about 50% about the evil Nazis and how much the Jews suffered, and to the other half about "lies" like that there is historical/scientific proof against Jesus' existence and that the Muslims have a really barbaric heritage and so on. On the other hand, there is NEVER a single negative thing against any Jewish thing whatsoever. The news papers points out Jew haters and scares us with Muslim terrorist acts, Christian goofs and Catholic pedophiles.

But never a single negative word against the Jewish people.

Why?

Because it's antisemitism, and it's "wrong" by law.

Look at Israel VS Libya, or any other country for that matter. If someone so much as coughs in Israel's direction, the US is right there with an edge against their throats. Israel can build a huge freaking wall crossing Libya's borders without any other country interfering, but when someone complains about Jews you can be sure to read about it in the papers the following morning.

What I'm getting at is that in my eyes, everything about Nazism and Jews today, and any other religious/political group for that matter, is to a high degree complete and utter bullshit that they feed us with so that we should feel pity for the Jews and hate everyone else, so that the Jews can buy the whole world and control everything we buy, watch and read. It's a really simple formula that seems to work out perfectly fine.

Have you ever played a game where you run around and shoot Jews?

No?

Have you ever played a game where you run around and shoot Muslims?

You have? Gee, I wonder why that is.

Religion, sexual orientations and nationality is "protected" by hate speech laws, but antisemitism is strictly defined as "hate towards Jews". Hell, there's even a law against holocaust denial in Belgium, how stupid isn't that. If I walk around in a major city wearing a sign reading "the massacre of thousands of Armenian inhabitants by Americans in early 1900's never happened" everyone would probably just say "cool, whatever", but if I were to wear a sign reading "WW2 is a lie, the holocaust never happened" I would be shredded to pieces within 10 minutes.

Besides, as mentioned earlier not all soldiers during WW2 could have been Nazis. I bet many of them were "ordinary" soldiers fighting for their country, because it was their JOB as soldiers. Refusing to do your job as a soldier makes you a deserter, and back then it was punishable by DEATH.

I'm by no means a guy who hates Jews or any other group. But the evidence is there, and to reject it because it would give birth to a new world war if you questioned Jewish businessmen and their wet dream of ruling the world is just plain stupid.

It's all about profit in the world of business, but if that means feeding the people with an unfair perspective against a certain group it's all OK? The WW2 games are just one product among many that helps manipulate us.

I do not mean to provoke anyone or call the Jewish people dishonest or whatever, I'm just trying to make a point and I don't see why this text would make me a Nazi. If I wrote about Muslims and it wasn't "as bad", wouldn't that really just make the ones calling me a Nazi even worse discriminating bastards? No one is worth more than another because of their religious or political beliefs, that's my point.

And yes, I might have gone ahead of myself as far as this discussion goes, but I stand for what I write and if that disturbs you please don't hesitate to open a discussion as long as it's on a discussion-based level of conversation and not just calling me an idiot without getting my picture.

8-Bit_Jack:
snip

first, I never said anything about the writing being the best. I admit the writing is not the greatest.

Second No need to call the series a load of tripe you aren't causing me to like it any less you are just showing how much of an ass you are.

Third the series is quite obvious about where hirano got his ideas from.

Fourth i only brought up hellsing because it uses Nazis as the villian in an interesting way unlike a lot of other things with nazis as villians.

Fifth quoting me just so you could say bad things of Hellsing tells me you are just a very sad individual whose head is lodged up their own anus.

Yahtzee Croshaw:
The food at McDonalds is pretty bad, too, but I never see you make games about that.

Here you go.
thank me later.

http://www.politicalgames.net/game-mcdonalds.php

Congrats Yahtzee, you realized something we all did Years ago. Not wanting to sound like a dick, but if you could stop blaming America because that's what is "in" right now, then you would have come to the conclusion years ago.

I beg to differ on your comment about games of MC donalds being bad

here is the game

http://www.minijuegos.com/juegos/jugar.php?id=4183

lets see how much you last hehe

EDIT: damn... ninjaŽd

Super Smash Bros Rumble: New Challenger Approaching!

Cooking Mama!

I actually really like that opt in idea, it means we get all the content we'd want to see in a particular game and immediately castrates the censors ever increasing nannying. Of course i'm sure some people will still ninny on about how we shouldn't even have the opportunity to be exposed to such debaucherous material. Unfortunately there will always exist self-righteous people/groups who feel they know what is best for all of us.

But frankly...

f**k them!

hey i like mcdonalds just because you abandoned and our english food for some tim tams does'nt mean you have to insult our shit food :P

SnootyEnglishman:
I think anyone who has ever paid attention in history class knows about the Nazi's and their actions it's not old news. Putting them in every WW2 style game does get a little boring after defeating them oh say 10 times. Mix it up a little eh?

Pillock: Okay then, how about we set it in a Central European country, which happens to be a totallitarian dictatorship, around the mid 20th century and you play as an American badass?

Yahtzee Croshaw:

Yahtzee discusses the ultimate baddie: Nazis.

Do you think the Nazis knew they were the bad guys?

/thread

Haha, sweet, my comment was used.

AssButt:
Most German soldiers weren't members of the Nazi Party. Even then, the Japanese committed similar atrocities (read up on Unit 731) and Stalin killed much more people than Hitler did.

Most WW2 vets don't hold a grudge against the Germans, a lot of them do against the Japanese.

I've searched for unit 731 and Stalin. Really sick shit.

The good thing about the nazis its that they are the ultimate bad example. They took hate, racism, and dictatorship to so new horrible levels, that people started to rethink their own values. World War I was, in a nut shell, a bunch of mofos who each thought that their country or race were the best and for that had the right to conquer the world.

And I am really glad that WWII finished before nukeswere all the rage (this started on last days of war).

Aside from sheer laziness I think the reason why we have so many Nazi shooter video games (as well as a gazillion Hollywood WWII movies) is that it undoubtedly makes the Americans the good guys. As well it gives the video game player free reign to go on a mass killing spree guilt free (for that matter Nazis are only second to zombies), you can bath yourself in Nazi entrails and no one would consider it strange or disgusting because well Nazis are bad m'kay.

As for Saboteur's boobie DLC, well that was just a silly marketing gimmick. Funny though that despite all the effort to make the era the game is suppose to represent period correct that all the burlesque dancers look like modern day skinny ass strippers with boob jobs. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't women of 40's Paris have hips?

In all honesty the Nazi's didn't think people would look back at them, They thought they would win and would be ruling the world. Near the end they may have thought that but for the most part Nazi's thought they were supreme and would win. As we know they lost and are thought of as bad but some of them honestly thought they were doing the right thing and would win. So they didn't really think of what we would think of them. And to them it might not even have mattered. I in no way support the Nazi's, They did terrible things to good people.

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