Zero Punctuation: Torchlight

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Hmmm, I derive no enjoyment from a Yahtzee installment that bashes a Game that dares to be incredibly polished and easy to enjoy when there are so many EA and Activision soulless knock offs he could be criticizing instead.

Shame really, he's becoming as narrow sited as most games reviewers.

Oh and where was the mod talk? The mod system is what makes Torchlight such incredible value ... Man, you really are a typical knuckle-dragging console gamer. For shame.

Loved the review, love the game, too!

Sexy Street:

Cpt_Oblivious:
I'd have to disagree this week. Torchlight is a great game for killing time and relieving stress. You're pissed off, you want to kill lots of stuff, it lets you and makes you feel awesome for it. And as for "Clicking everywhere", Yahtzee fails to notice you can hold the mouse button down to continually move and attack.

Aleate:
Why does every "rpg" nowadays need a dog?

You can have a cat instead.

RagingScottsman:
Brilliant review. I hate game-play where I'm prone to develop carpel tunnel by the second dungeon.

Having sunk 10 hours into it in the past week, I cna safely say you won't. I'm on the 29th floor and no adverse effects yet.

So does that mean the game is fun? I am wondering if I should get it.

It's definately worth a try.

Yahtzee doing the thing he does best: self induldgence. Still good mind.

Torchlight isn't a bad game, but Titan Quest is a better Diablo clone, especially with the Lilith and Masteries mods.

Thirtysomething:
Torchlight isn't a bad game, but Titan Quest is a better Diablo clone, especially with the Lilith and Masteries mods.

TQ would've been a whole lot better if the company didn't implode into gore salad. By that happening, the modding tools were left without any ample documentation, and adding to the pain is the modding community being extremely small, somewhat unresponsive and occasionally uncooperative. Case-in-point: 7 months to wait for a reply to a problem that's extremely basic by the game's modding standards. 3 months in and the interest is already gone, and by that time I might've only just discovered Median and Median XL, 2 versions of the sole D2 mod that got me back to D2, minus the 3-year joke of a life-destroyer that is Battle.net.

Adding to that is TQ's shameless disk space hogging - 7 cunt-gargling gigabytes, both TQ and TQ: Immortal Throne, as opposed to Torchlight calling in at 1.1+ GB if you also count the modding tool installation.

In other words, TQ was my budget modding nightmare, and possibly a modding nightmare for some others as well. My own bloody fault for buying a laptop 1 week before said laptop would be eligible for an upgrade.

the funniest thing about the game is that it's prity much what wound happen if Doable and Fate had a child.

Russian_Assassin:

I never heard of this game before and I guess that's a good thing.

No, it's not. This game is not bad, it's just Yahtzee has to find fault with everything or it's not funny. That's like saying MGS4 is actually a bad game.

Ultratwinkie:

RaiZ-R:
So... Didn't like it then?

does it matter? play the game yourself and be the judge, or did we outsource independent thought overseas too? XD

Oh. Hi... Welcome to sarcasm. :D

I used to favour these rather pithy reviews,
primarily because they were truthful and fair, if a little visceral.
In this case, however, Yahtzee doesn't appear to have played an isometric dungeon-crawl since diablo.
I'm embarressed that he didn't realise you can click-hold to continue hitting creatures - you know, like every game since diablo - none of which he's played, presumably.
If he had, he would've realised how streamlined it is compared to (a) diablo, (b) any of the sequels and clones.

I also find it embarrassing that the same crowd which seemed to ire the reviewer the most - the pathetically sheep-led, munter-players - seem to be the same crowd he's attempting to appeal to, with these filth-laden, porn-mongering, hate-filled reviews - tell me, do you just hate, or do you actually review nowadays?

Suffice to say, if he had RTFM, or spent five minutes considering the positive points of the game rather than it's rather obvious negative aspects, we might've had a more intelligent review. It'd unfortunate that the majority of his time is spent thinking of mean things to appeal to the drunken frat-boy universe of the internet.

I laughed so hard at seeing the dog wearing the helmet.

There's more clicks then a dolphin school for telephone operators lol

i love zero punctuation its very funny keep up the good work

metamorphosis18:
I used to favour these rather pithy reviews,
primarily because they were truthful and fair, if a little visceral.
In this case, however, Yahtzee doesn't appear to have played an isometric dungeon-crawl since diablo.
I'm embarressed that he didn't realise you can click-hold to continue hitting creatures - you know, like every game since diablo - none of which he's played, presumably.
If he had, he would've realised how streamlined it is compared to (a) diablo, (b) any of the sequels and clones.

I also find it embarrassing that the same crowd which seemed to ire the reviewer the most - the pathetically sheep-led, munter-players - seem to be the same crowd he's attempting to appeal to, with these filth-laden, porn-mongering, hate-filled reviews - tell me, do you just hate, or do you actually review nowadays?

Suffice to say, if he had RTFM, or spent five minutes considering the positive points of the game rather than it's rather obvious negative aspects, we might've had a more intelligent review. It'd unfortunate that the majority of his time is spent thinking of mean things to appeal to the drunken frat-boy universe of the internet.

Epic +1 of awsome. Unless that is you wish to enchant that :P

I found the review touched on all of the good aspects as bad. Since when is tons of loot bad? or not having to leave a dungeon to sell stuff by using your dog horrendous? Holding the mouse to click?

The worst part is many of the people who had not looked up the game before this will not now, and if they do it will be with a negative outlook.

Just felt like pointing out, since you're obviously selling all your findings to the shop keeper and not buying potions, there's no way he could get rich. Sure the rest could make money, and sure he only gives you a small percentage of the items value, but since you're the only one buying anything, how rich can he get?

the annoying 'clicky' overdose was bred out of Diablo as well (Diablo II) and while I know you aren't the most massive RPG fan, you have to admit that the Diablo series are at least good RPGs with a little more depth than most...

I'm sure 30 people have said this already but...

You can just hold down the mouse button on the enemy to beat the shit out of them. No need to click over and over.

JamesR:
Hmmm, I derive no enjoyment from a Yahtzee installment that bashes a Game that dares to be incredibly polished and easy to enjoy when there are so many EA and Activision soulless knock offs he could be criticizing instead.

Shame really, he's becoming as narrow sited as most games reviewers.

Oh and where was the mod talk? The mod system is what makes Torchlight such incredible value ... Man, you really are a typical knuckle-dragging console gamer. For shame.

Yeah my Destroyer looks like Brock Samson! :D

image

Heard this from TRS too...not bad for $$ but...

That was refreshing. Not only funny as usual, but also daring to take on the Steam mafia of games that are as horribly formulaic as anything with a numeral at the end of the title but get a pass because they're made by allegedly "indie" developers and tap into memories of playing videogames as a kid.

Kudos.

Although, to be fair, Zero Punctuation is just a venting process by which people who hate something that is popular get a fleeting sounding board and a few laughs, only to find their favourite game reviewed the next week and go "Waaait a second...".

But yeah, this week I happen to be that guy. I was over the Diablo formula by the time Nox came out and, frankly, being made by a small team doesn't give a game a license to be boring, unpolished or unoriginal. That goes for you too, League of Legends.

Allow me an EDIT:

What's with PC gamers nowadays? What once was an elite club for kids whose parents would a) be able to pay the insane price of an IBM PC and b) let their children be in the same room as that ultra-expensive piece of equipment has now degenerated into a cult-like faction, a middle point between hooligans and trekkies who will threaten to boycott, get angry at or talk down to death to anybody who dares do things in any way other than following the Righteous Path of PC Games, including but not limited to:

- Criticise or deviate from the Valve Way, even if you're Valve.
- Do anything to prevent pirating of games, unless you're Valve, in which case you're allowed to set up an entire digital delivery system to do just that.
- Criticse or deviate from the Blizzard way, even if you're Blizzard.
- Enjoy console games.
- Enjoy a console game more than its PC version if the game is officially considered a "PC game" (which is determined either completely at random or by the alignment of the planets).
- Decide to experience the game as is presented out of the box rather than spend several hours daily following up on, handpicking and setting up mods or several months actually making new mods.

From the position of authority I've obtained by having played PC games before some of these snotty brats were born I now say: shame on you all, PC cultists. This was once a passtime based on photocopies of code wheels, feeling inferior to Amiga owners and hoping that the upcoming Double Dragon port would support EGA graphics. And now the magic is gone. You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!

El_Lazor:
I'm just surprised he reviewed it now considering it came out back in NOVEMBER.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing. Though, at least he was right, Torchlight is far too repetitive to be fun.

Irridium:
He raises a good point.
Why does every RPG village seem to be built next to some horrid evil?

Its like they want to be attacked by demons or something...

It does make just slightly less sense then the D&D classic "Keep on the Borderlands" that at least was build some distance away from the main problem area.

Though the next question that should come up is why have the demons or whatever left the village largely alone or at least intact enough that they can help the adventures?

Am I the only one who was totally weirded out about how all of the music and sound effects were taken exactly from Diablo II? Seriously, I thought I was coming down with some kind of Post-Traumatic Clicking Disorder.

Hm... maybe it's bad taste to make PTSD jokes?

Sorry, this is going to be kind of off-topic, and rather specific to something Noelveiga said. Also, I will kind of be proving his point by trying to disprove his point. Ah, irony. (is that Irony? Some people really seem to care)

Noelveiga:

[PC Gamers] get angry at or talk down to death to anybody who dares... Do anything to prevent pirating of games, unless you're Valve, in which case you're allowed to set up an entire digital delivery system to do just that.

I actually thought that the primary concern of most PC players with regards to Anti-Piracy measures is that many of these programs are either broken (that is, they make the game broken at best, and at worse they make your computer broken!), intrusive of privacy, or asinine, and a very few are all three (I'm looking at you, SecuRom). Which isn't to mention that they are ineffective against people who know what they are doing and can download or create workarounds themselves, they are only really troublesome to the average or casual gamer who doesn't understand why the thing is borked and gives up on the PC as a viable game platform for (actually not unreasonable) stability issues.

What many PC gamers like about Valve's solution is that it is a simple (well okay, it's actually really complex) redefinition of how players get games in the first place, obviating the need for much of the intrusive and destructive parts of dedicated anti-piracy systems (or really just internalizing it in a way that makes it work better), and it really only seems to be an ancillary part of what Steam is.

I guess my main point is that most anti-piracy programs are stupid, and Valve gets a pass because what it made isn't an anti-piracy program, but a content-delivery program which happens to eliminate most of the ability to pirate games as a side-benefit.

Which isn't to say that Steam is perfect. I still have to wonder what will happen to the game "licenses" I have purchased in 10 years when they retire the system?

You pretty much sum up how it is to play Diablo 2, (With few expections) but unlike you, I enjoyed it.

cost me 4 in Steams Jan sale.... money will spent, kept my godson quiet for hours better than any dvd lol

I actually found the netbook and the low spec thing really good considering but then Yat has lost his edge, he's more console than anything. Shame really i'm sure he was brought up on games that needed rewinding by pens when they came loose.

As much as i love my consoles (wii and 360 gathering dust or melting eggs to crispness) and my ps3 (most played recently). My PC [desktop and laptop] will always be my favourites when it comes to games... they aren't just about how many FPS's you can fit on the market before said market starts being morons or making poorly made puns and pretending to be more british than he actually is...

*waves at Yat* you're not british... deal with it... enjoy your australian fun with mmo's.. i hear you get.. "great" connections... lol

Another tears-inducing laugh-fest in the form of a ZP review.

Thank you very much. Keep them coming.

This is one of those areas where Yahtzee really shows his ignorance toward certain genres. When it comes to shooters, he's some sort of mad savant on a mission, a superhero of refining that particular genre, but given just about any other type of game, his wit tends to falter from my perspective because Yahtzee is at his best when he's in his own element.

It's sort of like being a Professor of geology, and encouraging a lay-person to speak on the topic when they don't have a clue, the effort is endearing, and it can be entertaining for a half hour if you can get past your own empathy, and feeling for them in regards to all the painfully obvious mistakes they're making, mistakes which they quickly compound with errors of even greater magnitudes. The humour value of this increases exponentially if the lay-person happens to be drunk, or at least sounds like they're drunk, or failing that--very angry.

That's sort of what this review of Torchlight was like. Funny in its own way, and it's going to get yuks out of anyone who doesn't understand the genre, but anyone who's familiar with even a small amount of Western action RPGs is probably going to have their face planted in their hands, laughing raucously for all the wrong reasons.

I think that next Yahtzee should review Borderlands, get the man talking on something that he's familiar with, so we can all be entertained again without having to feel heinously guilty for it after (well, except for the clueless ones, who'll be earnestly entertained anyway, Q.E.D., ignorance may very well be bliss).

That or we could have him review Solium Infernum, but I think the screens of numbers and complex tactics in that would have his head impacting his desk with such force and unrestrained anger that Murphy's Law would probably see his brain quantum tunnelling it's way to freedom, so that it might never have to experience something like that ever again.

So yes, let's see him review more shooters!

Chasmodius:

Which isn't to say that Steam is perfect. I still have to wonder what will happen to the game "licenses" I have purchased in 10 years when they retire the system?

Well, perfectly valid DRM options have received criticism because they were DRM, not because they were stupid.

Remember the Spore controversy? Remember how you had 5 installs and then your game would stop working? Well, that is EXACTLY how PSN works on the PS3. You get 5 downloads of your game. Then, poof! you've ran out of Everyday Shooter. I don't hear people complaining about that, though.

Also, Steam gets a pass for several reasons, and it's really a very well put together service (now, it was a sorry mess when it first started), but it has many, many inconveniences that nobody complains about. You need to be online to play, for one, which means that an internet problem will make your entire games library go away. Games are linked to an account, which also means that your little brother has no games to play even if he shares a PC with you, unless you also share your account details with him. It also runs in the background while you play, tracking achievements and community stuff, which is not a big deal, by any means, or it wouldn't be if people didn't complain about "losing resources" when Securom and other DRM software keeps running in the background. And yeah, if Valve disappears, so do your games.

So I stand by my theory (which is only just a little bit tongue in cheek) that PC gamers hate DRM because they hate things that try to keep them from pirating games and they like Steam because Valve can do no wrong.

For the record, I don't understand why Valve gets to present itself like a struggling small developer when they own the bastard child of Gamestop and Xbox Live. Surely, if you're the owner of the world's largest digital distribution platform, in practice making you a major publisher AND a major retailer, that makes you a corporate asshole, does it not?

Noelveiga:

For the record, I don't understand why Valve gets to present itself like a struggling small developer when they own the bastard child of Gamestop and Xbox Live. Surely, if you're the owner of the world's largest digital distribution platform, in practice making you a major publisher AND a major retailer, that makes you a corporate asshole, does it not?

I kind of thought that being a privately-held company meant you were less beholden to shareholders and "the board," which is what makes corporations particularly asshole-y. At least, in a cyber-punk kind of we-own-people-damn-consequences-only-the-bottom-line way. Being big isn't necessarily bad, it's acting big that's the problem, and I think that Valve does a good job of only falling into that trap on a few occasions.

Anyway, your other points are all well-made, and well-taken, though I thought I could use Steam in "offline" mode if my internet connection was down? Regardless, good points.

Chasmodius:
Am I the only one who was totally weirded out about how all of the music and sound effects were taken exactly from Diablo II? Seriously, I thought I was coming down with some kind of Post-Traumatic Clicking Disorder.

Hm... maybe it's bad taste to make PTSD jokes?

It sounds similar to Diablo 2's music because the same person that did D2's music made Torchlight's.

On another note, I disagree with pretty much everything Yahtzee said. Yeah, it's a clone of D2, but it's a well-polished one. Although it suffers from the same ailment pretty much every Diablo clone does: the more I play Torchlight, the more I want to play Diablo II, simply because as good as Torchlight is, D2 just does most things better. Let's hope Diablo III lives up, yeah?

Skweebl:

Chasmodius:
Am I the only one who was totally weirded out about how all of the music and sound effects were taken exactly from Diablo II?

It sounds similar to Diablo 2's music because the same person that did D2's music made Torchlight's.

It doesn't sound "similar," it uses exactly the same music and sound effects. At least in that first whole section, which is as far as I got before having too many Diablo II flashbacks and decided that I really didn't want to play it again.

Hooooooooooards.

Russian_Assassin:

Aleate:
Why does every "rpg" nowadays need a dog?

Misguided game devs believe that the Dog was Fallout 3's secret to it's success probably...

I never heard of this game before and I guess that's a good thing.

It definitely wasn't cause I missed the Dog in Fallout 3 an had beaten the entire game before I decided to check out a FAQ an was like "WHAT there was a dog? Aww man".

As for Torchlight its a good cheap Diablo clone. If you like Diablo you will like Torchlight if not then you wont. An if you never played Diablo you might as well go back to hugging your console since your probably don't own any PC games anyway.

dls182:
If you're not careful, console RPGs will start requiring you to plug in a keyboard and mouse just to have enough buttons...

That would make me actually buy a console if the games on them were written to use a mouse and keyboard. I can't use those *ahem* (and I use the term loosely) "controllers"...

"... or for someone who has spent most of their life chained to a basement wall." Was this a 5 Days a Stranger reference? :B If so, do more. lawl

Cool video, as usual.

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