Zero Punctuation: Darksiders

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But the combat is nothing like God of War! I mean Yahtzee I love your reviews but not every single hack and slash game out there is a GoW clone! Darsiders may not be original in any way except the art direction aaaand the conbat is more like Devil May Cry, in DMC you have a button assigned to each weapon, just like Darksiders, whereas in GoW you have a light attack button a a strong attack button. And Darksiders, just like DMC has directional inputs on the stick. It's not our fault that you are a button masher, there's also square, square, triangle you know? and there are delays as well

I agree with Yahtzee's review becuase while it may be a God of War clone, it does nick some of the combat, such as the finisher moves. It's not really that good either, the main character is not very likeable and has barely any personality and the story is a little...flat. You never really care about any of it.

abort_user:

Therumancer:
...

Oh yes, one minor point I will make is that I think the comments about the "14 year old ideal of masculinity" sort of misses the target. Rather I'd simply say that the game is presenting typical masculinity, face it... guys are wired that way. The modern meterosexuals are more or less an attempt at self supression.

Or let me put it to you this way, we can either have a macho dude driven by a desire to protect, avenge, conquer, and destroy, who acts like a warrior (which mandates a degree of emotional repression while he's doing his thing), or some dude who wants to sit around and talk about his feelings and confusion over the state of human emotion constantly.

I suppose one of the big problems is that a compromise is VERY hard to do, which is why the tiny handfull of characters that pull it off are noteworthy. In general you've got a choice between a Soldier/Warrior, a sarcastic swashbuckler type, or some fruit who would be the the lead man for a chick flick (or one of those gay-seeming supernatural creatures from paranormal romance books and the movies based on them).

In general, I think the withdrawn attitude is pretty realistic to what people who survive via violence wind up like. Granted, they DO insert too much angst into it though which I do not see as a nessicary conclusion.

I suppose War could have been done as the witty "Swashbuckler" of the Nathan Drake mould, which is what you'd get the the "check it out, I'm a monster truck with legs" vibe. However I imagine Yahtzee would have hated that more...

thats mostly horse shit. its socialization. guys arent one way or another. society trains them to behave a certain way regardless of whether its instinctual and the same also applies to women. men are often taught at a young age not to show emotion. its a sign of weakness. whereas woman are taught the opposite. some people believe this is one reason mental illness is far more frequent in males.

just because you think men should be stereotypically masculine doesnt mean youre describing masculinity. even if you think men should be "metrosexual" (btw i hate that word since it has nothing to do with a males sexual preference or anything else inherently related to sex) i would say the same thing. men have a cock, naturally more hair, naturally lower percentage of body hair, etc. most behavioral differences between males and females are almost all provably a result of socialization just by examining a wide variety of cultures.

but i also took Yahtzees comment about 14 year old boys to mean something entirely different. the guy with the big sword is a sexually charged image. a 14 year is around the age of puberty so its appeal to this demographic should be obvious. personally i think its childish to a watch "macho" man battle with giant phallus. also i find the idea to be rather homoerotic which is not my idea of masculine but it very may be yours.

Hmmm well today I received numerous responses on two subjects saying pretty much the same thing. As the most extreme statement due to the ending I will respond to this issue here.

Simply put I am a believer in human instinct and that gender roles and behaviors CAN be changed by society, but people gravitate in certain directions naturally. Some studies I read in College for example talked about how when dealing with young children who couldn't really have been conditioned, boys naturally gravitate towards war toys and games, action, and violence, where girls naturally gravitate toward prettier things with a more peaceful orientation. There are other opinions, but this seemed to be the overall conclusion reinforced by the most evidence.

Freud and Jung have some interesting points, but in the end I do not think everything comes down to sex, even in an abstract sense. For example I do not think a sword, even a really big one is a phallic symbol. While such interpetations can be amusing to an extent it's more or less BS.

Swords are pretty much functional (a blade attached to a handle) when it comes to killing and breaking things it's very efficient, and the bigger the sword the more effective it's going to be. Carrying a sword the sides of a volkswagon is intended to imply superhuman abillity and be about "OMG that would hurt" more than anything. I will say that the giant sword was coolest when Cloud did it for Final fantasy VII (which brought it into the mainstream it seems), but since I feel it's gotten overdone, moving from a trademark weapon that was differant, to something you kind of expect when it comes to Japanese games. What's more it worked with the somewhat cartoony FF VII art style for the time, it looks silly when portrayed in a more realistic and "Gritty" context.

That said, the whole "Meterosexual" thing basically involves men repressing their instincts for the benefit of women as much as anything. It's kind of sexist in a way because you don't see the other gender doing the same thing quite as much.

It should also be noted that "Emo" is overused in pop culture. It's not so much about every guy having to be an emotionless robot, but rather when someone sits down and goes through these massive analysises of their feelings, almost exclusively having to do with their grief, misery, and how unfair the world is. In short there are some profound statements about this kind ot thing, but "emos" are people who emulate it and turn into giant "pity me" whiners.

The Emo stereotype of constant misery and emotional angst is mocked because it's overused, and a lot of people see no real reason why every protaganist has to be a tortured wreck. I mean about the millionth time you've seen the "constantly hung over cop on the edge, whose wife has left him, and is 2" away from suicide and pursueing a death wish so he doesn't have to pull the trigger on himself" for example it becomes ridiculous and the guy whining about the same stuff as every other similar character gets stupid.

Also part of my point about warriors is not just about "Machismo" that's simply how things are. Part of learning to fight seriously is disapline and being able to put humanity behind you and do whatever needs to be done. Soldiers, Warriors, Martial Artists, they all get conditions (or condition themselves) this way. Many wind up being able to turn it on and off.

The point being is that when the chips are down you don't want a fighter who is going to be unable to act because he worries about the other guy having wives, familities, or whatever, or who will hestitate if he has to do truely disgusting and inhumane things in order to win (which I won't go into detail about). Thus, anyone who fights seriously is going to be pretty emotionally repressed, especially when they are pursueing a combat oriented goal of the sort in video games. This incidently includes women who when trained for combat learn the exact same things.

So basically,some people talk about the robot-like "Marine" stereotype, but guess what? That's what they train Marines and other soldiers to be like, and it's done for a reason. Rather than sitting around crying about how awful everything is, a "been there, done that, ate it" is advocated to push all that back, and peer pressure with everyone acting like that so it's infectuous is a big deal. Detached Gallows humor and such which is inserted into such things is "appropriate" given what these guys do.

Now there ARE other ways of doing the same thing, like the whole "Swashbuckler" stereotype of ironic detachment (which annoys Yahtzee), detachment (the overall goal) is the key element.

In the end it comes down to how seriously you want to take the character and want them to seem. War is the embodiment of killing people and breaking things, not someone who is going to sit down and talk about his feelings, especially when he's in the midst of a misplaced Armageddon.

At any rate, outside of the whole "Warrior" mentality thing, I am against the whole "Meterosexual" thing... which incidently I never called gay (others have made such innuendos, which makes me wonder if you all actually hate it as much as I do, but ae goig PC here for whatever motive.. maybe to appeal to female escapist posters or whatever), because I think it is stupid for men to be ashamed of acting like men, and to see it depreciated in the media except for mockeries like "The Man Show" and "Man Caves" (well more like satires for all intents and purposes, as you can get from the title if nothing else).

It all comes down to my overall attitude of refusing to be ashamed of anything I am and actually taking pride in it (and exagerrated it as much as other groups). Basically I refuse to be ashamed for being, White, Male, American, or Christian. All of which are increasingly presented as bad things.

Actually, to be honest i thought that the first boss was only harder because of the frustrating controls.

And there was one thing that also annoyed me, war's fangs? they look like kitty teeth. I didn't care about his armor, his kitty teeth were just to silly.

tellmeimaninja:

Demoliboy2:
WAit a second.. Did he said twilight princess was good?

First time i hear him said a zelda game was good O.O

On topic: Pretty good review, but i would love to fight with death..

When did he say that? The only note of Zelda I recall was the "recreating the same game since [whenever the original came out]

Best episode of ZP in a long time.
I want to somehow mod the game so that Yahtzee's rant would play every time I killed an enemy. That might actually make the game worth buying.
"I am a MONSTER TRUCK that walks like a man!"

2:40 "I aprecciate that taking elements from a good game that worked well"

Here you go ;)

Therumancer:

It all comes down to my overall attitude of refusing to be ashamed of anything I am and actually taking pride in it (and exagerrated it as much as other groups). Basically I refuse to be ashamed for being, White, Male, American, or Christian. All of which are increasingly presented as bad things.

Ahh yes the repression of the...white male? Yes being an American and being a Christian do get entirely too much shit these days. How though exactly has your white male status harmed you? I'm curious.

I AM A MONSTER TRUCK WHO WALKS LIKE A MAN!!!!!. On a related note that phrase is my new bumper sticker.

AgentNein:

Therumancer:

It all comes down to my overall attitude of refusing to be ashamed of anything I am and actually taking pride in it (and exagerrated it as much as other groups). Basically I refuse to be ashamed for being, White, Male, American, or Christian. All of which are increasingly presented as bad things.

Ahh yes the repression of the...white male? Yes being an American and being a Christian do get entirely too much shit these days. How though exactly has your white male status harmed you? I'm curious.

Affirmitive action, dual standards on behavior, historical reinventionism and most importantly having to hear people whine about how evil I am constantly.

"Oh noes, during the age of conquest your people kicked a lot of butt and actually conquered people, colonized, and otherwise generally succeeded. You are soooo evil, and as such you deserve a constant stream of whining and guilt trips".

Thanksgiving comes around, and I get to be subjected to an endless stream of hatred for later warfare and conquest of the indiginous population that helped us there (even if we are celebrating it's memory). Missing entire things like The French and Indian War, and the actual details of the relationships with tribes on the East Coast, including close alliances with guys like Chief Uncas of the Mohegans (who is still a local legend). The whole thing with the Mohegans falling apart due to him getting greedy and making what were some pretty ridiculous demands. I don't care for how that story ended paticularly, but I do understand why it happened (he wasn't so much conquered, as declared war, the central dispute being over land he was never promised but wanted 'because of his contributions' despite it having been colonized already... or at least that is what I remember).

A movie like Avatar comes out, and we get both barrels. We get a white guilt message for the treatment of natives from the movie, and then get cr@p from natives themselves (yet again) because despite the themes in the movie they felt it was wrong to have a white hero instead of having the natives resolving the issue totally on their own.

I mean it's a lot of stuff, on a lot of levels. I can't have pride. I have to be evil in everything, and things need to be remembered that way to be politically correct even to the extent of changing history.

On a religious grounds, I get to experience a hate machine over The Crusades (which started with Christian pilgrims being slaughtered), The Inquisition (where people cast the victims as innocent twentieth/twenty first century new agers), and heck even over Rome to some extent (over the ancient world equivilent of nuking coastal African civilization back to the stone age when they apparently refused to join The Empire).

Basically, I get sick of it. Even now with some of the examples above I'm sure there are plenty of people getting ready to yell "Noes! Your evil, what your saying isn't right!".

I guess with some of my attitudes I'm definatly not a good person (thinking about my attitudes about Haiti and globalization in general and the methods involved), but the bottom line is that I get tired of people crying about who I am on a fundemental level. Arguably it's one of the reasons why I've become so forceful and militant about certain things. I am just sick and tired of the constant guilt trip.

Heck even YOU are giving me a guilt trip in a way by going "oh yeah, well when has your status ever caused you a problem". Well I'll tell you what, work as Casino security for a few years and try and keep a handfull of young blacks (just short of the age of admittance) off the gaming floor, either refusing them admittance, or tossing them if they snuck in, and then see if the race card comes up when your white and turns things into a production 10x more annoying than it should be. Heck, I might even wind up having to write a report for a "verbal altercation" if they get loud enough, and justify the ejection "in writing", when this should be a simply (announced) matter of them being young, not having/producing ID (or having ID that marks them as too young) and quietly walking them out to the concourse (where they can still do other stuff, but they aren't allowed to drink or gamble, which means they aren't allowed in the actual gaming areas which are fenced off and patrolled by security for a reason. Indeed if Liquor Commisioner or a State Gaming Agent finds them on the floor due to the Tribe's agreeement with them the casino/tribe gets fined and the failure trickled down to security). The point being that because they are black, and I am white, they can make noise and force me to do paperwork that otherwise wouldn't be nessicary, even if they are being complete idiots, and sneaking into a place they know they aren't supposed to be (signs and such clearly posted not only around the gaming areas, but around the public areas, and even coming into the bloody buildings).

I AM A MONSTER TRUCK WHO WALKS LIKE A MAN!

Perhaps the best Yahtzee-ism ever.

uNeekS:
I AM A MONSTER TRUCK WHO WALKS LIKE A MAN!

Perhaps the best Yahtzee-ism ever.

Please don't forget:
At the secret service of queen Lizzy,
BJ's bosses found themselves in a tizzy,
They stand up and shout:
"BJ, sort this al out,
We'd do it ourselves but we're buisy"

Yo Yahtzee, you don't want no part of Bayonetta, man. You better back off now before it's too late. That bitch'll eat your soul with her hair. She has GUNS on her FEET. I know you like to be dominated but don't let the Tina Fey/Angela Aki glasses fool you, Bayonetta will ride your pansy ass raw.

This has been a public service message for SISSY LADS PWNED BY BAYONETTA.

Bloop glop de oob glub

It's not that I mind, but why "gelatinous creatures"? I only played the PC games, not the original tabletop, so I'm probably missing some kind of joke at the expense of the hardcore W40K fandom.

lagomorph:
Yo Yahtzee, you don't want no part of Bayonetta, man. You better back off now before it's too late. That bitch'll eat your soul with her hair. She has GUNS on her FEET. I know you like to be dominated but don't let the Tina Fey/Angela Aki glasses fool you, Bayonetta will ride your pansy ass raw.

This has been a public service message for SISSY LADS PWNED BY BAYONETTA.

Young man, please behave yourself before we're forced to call your parents!

Radu889:
Yahtzee sounded a bit angrier this review.

Indeed. I noticed that too. Too much of the Christmas spirit. I guess he needed to vent it out of his system.

Still, I think this was one of his best reviews to date. I laughed more than I remember laughing with any other review.

Well done!!!

Then again, who am I to judge.

Did they *really* put a gun that shoots orange and blue portals ??
If so, wow.. they could at least have changed the colors.

Three God of War ripoffs, woo. I can't wait to see if Dante's Inferno get ripped a new one.

Hilarious, I also thought the "I am a monster truck who walks like a man!!" line was a great contender for quote of the decade.
What I have heard though is that this game doesn't try to claim it's not stolen from other games, but rather that "this is the Zelda game we always wanted to play, but that Nintendo were to f*ing 'no we must make all games cute with cheery voices!!' to make". The Zelda game mechanics have been mentioned in every review, article, preview or anything I've seen on this game, and I'll probably buy it once the PC version (which I have heard is coming out sometime in the future, probably before DNF) is selling for a reasonable price. Like 5€ or something.

To me, this game seems really enjoyable. And this ZP episode was the funniest I've seen for a while.

Once again, a vey funny review, once again a few cheap shots that weren't really warranted.

Yes, the combat is focused on a single button, but it does a number of interesting things with it. Different timing spawns different combos, as does holding it, and you actually can combo in finishers and secondary weapons, which do have different combos spawned through timing or holding. The complaint seems to be that there is no real need to use any of these... and he's right there. On that, all I can say is that that is a kind of criticism that makes me really angry. People kept complaining that to "win" combats in Assassin's Creed you could just wait for attacks and counters, and that's boring to which I've always replied "so don't do that, then".

And yes, originality and innovation aren't the game's strong suits, but once again, I'm always perplexed by how people don't seem to think all RTSs are ripoffs of Dune 2, or all FPSs of Wolfenstein (and please, spare me the archeologic exercise of naming even earlier examples, you know what I mean) but if you make a Zelda clone, it's a Zelda clone. Is that Beyond Good and Evil agreeing with me from beyond the grave?

On the art design... well, I think Yahtzee is mixing up two different issues there. Characterization is certainly poor in the game. War is not quite as angry as I would expect for an antropomorphic representation of violent conflict and everybody else is a straight up cliché. So they look like straight up clichés. Overdone armour, horns, that kind of thing.

But the art design itself is pretty decent. War has a very strong silhouette. He is noticeably dressed in red. So the red guy is your guy, and everybody who isn't a red guy is a victim. Enemies are also sorted by colour, and when they are carrying something dangerous, it generally shines. It works. It's readable and it's colourful. Given that the characters and the (lack of a) story are pretty much identical to those in Gears of War, the fact that we've swapped a colour palette consisting of grey and greyish brown for this is a step up.

Hmmm...

I need to start avoiding these comment threads. I really, really enjoy the reviews, but when I try to say something about them I end up doing these "to be fair" pseudo-rants.

fisk0:

What I have heard though is that this game doesn't try to claim it's not stolen from other games, but rather that "this is the Zelda game we always wanted to play, but that Nintendo were to f*ing 'no we must make all games cute with cheery voices!!' to make".

Speak for yourself. If there's one thing the world needs less than another cute iteration on the Zelda series is another gruff mountain of a man with no neck and heavy armour.

This is definitely one of his better reviews, when he really hates a game that's when he makes excellent reviews. Even though i might disagree.

Noelveiga:
Speak for yourself. If there's one thing the world needs less than another cute iteration on the Zelda series is another gruff mountain of a man with no neck and heavy armour.

I think the casual game market could benefit from using the gruff mountain of a man with no neck and heavy armour. Think of the possibilies.
I'd totally buy a Wii to play Wii Archetypical Badass One Man Army Warrior Dude Figure Skating Championship in Hell. Even Soccer and Golf games would be fun if all players were ridiculously huge and heavily armoured. Of course, that seems to be the one thing americans have figured out when it comes to sports.

fisk0:

I think the casual game market could benefit from using the gruff mountain of a man with no neck and heavy armour. Think of the possibilies.
I'd totally buy a Wii to play Wii Archetypical Badass One Man Army Warrior Dude Figure Skating Championship in Hell. Even Soccer and Golf games could be fun.

Maybe if you had put your money where your mouth is and bought Madworld we would now have "Madworld at the Winter Olympics". Sadly, now we'll never have a chance to enjoy something like that. I blame you personally.

I nearly pissed myself laughing. Rants like these are pure art.

huh, I only see a Zelda ripoff, a Devil May Cry (not quite) ripoff (same creator there), a God Of War ripoff and a Rygar ripoff. Anyone remember that God Of War is a Rygar ripoff?

Wow. This game is horrible. All those ripoffs turned any potential interest I had below zero.

Yahtzee is god!

I have not laughed that much in five minutes in way too long...but eh...does that comment about all the God of War clones mean he's not reviewing Bioshock 2? Naw...I'm just imagining things.

Ive never had an issue considering that Darksiders is pretty much God of War and Zelda put together because the xbox doesnt have those games individually.

Heres the thing.

I've been waiting for God of War to be ported over to the Xbox,but thats apparently never going to happen.Its about time Xbox owners get something similar to GOW for their system.

As far as 'Dantes Inferno' goes its a bit soon to be writing it off because it borrows elements from GOW.To me it looks like a winner.Lets be patient and see.

bustedwolf:
Anyone remember that God Of War is a Rygar ripoff?

Wow, don't hear accusations of ripping off Rygar very often. Really, the pizza pan-on-a-rope genre does need more love.

Bayonetta better run before yahtzee rants on it( bad Joe Pesci wanna-be does one of the voices)

Solid review as always, though honestly I think I've laughed harder at this one than any single one in a long time.

Honestly though, I enjoyed the game despite being pissed off with its tired design (am I the only one who thinks War basically looks like Sephiroth if some frat boys got their hands on him and decided to MANLY HIM UP RAWRR) and its shameless off-ripping, mostly because it did have some really solid dungeon/puzzle design and there were some fun things you could do with the combat (admittedly the standout for me being the section wherein you get your hands on the Remote-Detonating-Harpoon-Launcher) when the controls decided to play along. Hey, having the voice of The Joker playing your token Annoying-Support-Character-Designed-To-Make-Us-All-Regret-Complaining-About-Navi-By-Being-Totally-Fucking-Unhelpful softened the blow for me a bit, and there were some nice design touches throughout, so frankly I'm interested in what Vigil decides to do from here on out, provided they manage to come up with some new ideas of their own.

I'm surprised he didn't mention the Worst Flight Controls In A Forced-Flight Sequence Ever, though. I nearly took the game back right then and there.

On a side note... yeah, if Bayonetta resembles GoW at ALL it's in the presence of huge-ass boss battles and mythical creature killing (and let's be frank here-- wholesale slaughter of mythical creatures has kinda more or less been a staple of gaming since forever); from tone to character to style it's a whole 'nother beast altogether. If Bayonetta is a God of War clone then I'm the reincarnated Jesus Christ.

Yahtzee raged.

Lmao "I AM A MONSTER TRUCK WHO WALKS AS A MAN" is my new favorite quote. XD Awesome review!

everything he said was right, but he's still wrong. darksiders was AWESOME, and FUN. plus i never played zelda, and never will. who wants to play as a pansy ass elf? i guess everyone except me.

Link on steroids. Ha! on a side note I think Yahtzee should don the Blues Brother look.

I am surprised he didn't mention how much War looks like Prince Arthas from Warcraft 3 while he was ranting about his look. I mean if you take Arthas an change the coloring from purple to red you get War. lol

Anyway I rented it an so far its basically Zelda only without the charm an npc's and more of a focus on brutally smashing monsters. I don't think its a God of War clone though. Damn dunno why people act like EVERY action game that comes out now is a God of War clone. Its like saying every FPS with regenerating health is a Halo clone.

To say one good thing about it though is that I having lots more fun with it than I did with Bayonetta. That game just sucked to me.

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