Zero Punctuation: Borderlands

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And to those people who wanted him to review Dante's inferno, it came out yesterday. Yahtzee's good, but time manipulation isn't one of his most polished skill, shitting on games and you is. He's going to screw over mass effect 2 so just wait for the damn week.

oh, and the reason I wanted you to review Borderlands, Yahtzee, wasn't because I'm a fan of it. Just the opposite. ;) . I suspect there's lots of folks wanting you to review specific games for the very same reason.

So why haven't you reviewed Final Fantasy XIII! ? ! ?

Hey, yeah...what exactly are the Borderlands bordering?

I completely agree here, the game itself is very drab. It is more brown than anyone should be objected to. Besides the brown, there is also some blue and very shiny weapons. I always have a two sided argument when it comes to stories. Either the game is a Jarpeg(Japanese RPG)or a normal rpeg and is completely dependent on story, like a novel. The other side, like mario games and Doom or Serious Sam, have no real plot what so ever and completely leave it on the floor, letting you pick it up if you feel like it. At that point, it is covered in garbage and blood any way and doesn't matter. I believe that Borderlands COULD have been on the no story side, but since it had missions and quests, in kinda needed it. If all of that can be looked over, the game is a very fun game and a good time in multiplayer.

BlueInkAlchemist:

ForgottenPr0digy:
I'm surprised I thought this week might Army of two:40th day or Dante's Inferno or MAG???

Apparently, the amount of whining in his inbox finally reached critical mass.

So it would seem, so it would seem.

(I did a very newbie-ish sort of thing and ended up double-posting. If someone could delete this one, it would be appreciated. Apologies for the trouble.)

I've watched these video reviews with a sort of fascination for a bit now, but this marks the first time I have felt compelled to sign up and actually post, so hi out there.

That out of the way, I don't think Yahtzee could have hit this any closer to the mark if he had some sort of Star-Wars-y (the defence system not the trilogy) tracking system. I have noticed an increasing trend in the games that have come out of late - even the good ones - to be relatively shallow. It comes almost as something of a relief that I am not some sort of fossil that remembers when we actually had to have such old-fashioned contrivances as a story implemented as part of the game play and not leering in a particularly disquiet manner from the next room through the peep-hole in the door or messily smeared over the game like some sort of yellow baptismal.

It really seems to be a lazy design choice for them to hang the game more or less on the multiplayer, however I suppose given the almost inherently MMORPG setup with the tedious amount of grinding that takes any concept of fun and smashes into a fine paste, it was to be expected. I always had the impression that it was trying to be a Fallout-ish multiplayer game and I suppose it definitely makes some sort of an attempt at that, but say what one might about the dialogue in Fallout it certainly had some better direction, or at least direction that had the iota of sense required to realise that we need such a thing as variety.

In any event I felt grossly let down by Borderlands when I finally got around to purchasing it last Monday, so I suppose if anything Yahtzee's review gave a certain sense of vindication, and I also suppose that I should stop ranting before I start rambling.

Man didn't this shit come out ages ago?

Talcon:
Nope, not really. But you're kinda provin' my point. He doesn't like the game means the issue is with the gamer, not the game. That's just displacing the blame for shitty game design, now isn't it?
...
You're absolutely puzzled that anyone could not like this game. Sort of like when Yahtzee bashed Brawl, and one of his hatemails said "you must not like the game because some of the final smashes are cheap". Well he didn't mention the final smashes, now did he? Just like that guy with Brawl, you're projecting your problems with the game onto me. So tell me, are you trying to suppress the nagging feeling that you're not having as much fun as you think are?

Diablo-style random weapon drops are pretty much the opposite of shitty game design, they're pretty much the best kind of carrot you can hang in front of a gamer's face. "Is this guy going to drop a better weapon? No? What about this guy?" The only "programming" that makes a player stop and analyze every new gun's stats to the point that they don't enjoy the gameplay is in his own head. Borderlands doesn't have say anything one way or the other about it.

The only thing I'm trying to surpress is barfing thanks to this ridiculous rhetorical aikido you're trying. You state that it's a game-breaking problem how you have to stop and agonize over every new gun's stats. I reply that it's your problem and not the game. Somehow this means I don't like the game and I'm trying to blame you! How exactly did you get from point A to point B there... is it because I didn't mention Final Smashes either?

Hehe, I can't imagine Yahtzee ever giving in to the sheer pressure placed upon him to review Final Fantasy XIII, although I do think he should at least try one, and I mean a proper one, not just The World Ends With You. Hell, it doesn't even have to be an FF game. Lost Odyssey was fairly good...

Anyway, funny review, as always. Looking forward to next week!

By the way, where's the SCORE, Yahtzee? I want a score, dammit! Score it!

. . . and talk about signing up for abuse. The "Yahtzee Facebook Fan Page"?!. You gotta be kidding me, right?

Oh wow, Yahtzee takes a really good game and gives it a shellacking because it doesn't reach his "gold-plated toilet" standards. I already took this shot back when he mentioned it in Extra Punctuation, and I'm rather surprised he reviewed bitched about the game.

The game is not perfect, by any means. Especially in multi-player where the Diablo-esqe looting scenarios mean you have at least one moron running about grabbing every loose object in sight. But if Yahtzee would stop to look past the games flaws,(Ha ha ha, I made a funny!) he might see the undercurrent of satire and the fact that game really doesn't take itself seriously.

Then again, I'm still trying to figure out what Yahtzee considers to be fun. I'm sure if someone made a bitching simulator that dispensed Branson Pickle as a reward he'd still find fault with it. But I happen to...

Nice job Yahtzee. I agree that Borderlands isn't that great.

NamesAreHardToPick:

Diablo-style random weapon drops are pretty much the opposite of shitty game design, they're pretty much the best kind of carrot you can hang in front of a gamer's face. "Is this guy going to drop a better weapon? No? What about this guy?" The only "programming" that makes a player stop and analyze every new gun's stats to the point that they don't enjoy the gameplay is in his own head. Borderlands doesn't have say anything one way or the other about it.

I'm sorry, but unless I read you wrong here, you're essentially saying 'the problem with this person not liking the game is they decided to not like a rather tedious mechanic and if they just got over it, they would be okay.'

Call it a carrot if you like, but being someone who plays games to have fun and not to pack-rat-esque collect the 10 butt-scratchers of the Netherlords or the Spitoon of Satan, I end up simply finding any such item mechanic of such mostly-completely random to be tiresome at best and an excercise in Eve-esque micromanagement at worst, which is to say I would rather stick my face in a vat of hydrochloric acid.

While the success of MMORPGs indicates that I may be in a minority expressing that sentiment, it is hardly a replacement for a good story or some sort of innovative or at least somewhat refeshingly good game mechanics, both of which Borderlands seems to lack.

It's not to say that Borderlands is atrociously bad, but it is at best lackluster and the repetitive game mechanics such as the one that you seem to be defending only serve to be the proverbial nails in the coffin that keep it from having something resembling a soul.

And here I was hoping for a Bioshock 2 video. Oh well, I can wait. It'll have to be after Mass Effect 2 anyway. God I have a vendetta with the ME games. It's not that I hate them, they hate me. Durn things refuse to let me save on either one. <.<

Huzzah! Borderlands got the Yahtzee seal of "not completely trash fodder"!

Thank God SOMEONE had the balls to speak about how lame this game really is. So repetitive and boring. Terrible interface design. Etc etc.

i was one of the people hoping review this, i didn't expect you to love it (cause you never do) but you were quite harsh and i'm falling back on the assumption that you just had an unlucky/bad experience with it.

People don't learn.

Ever.

The Great JT:
I sense another Mailbag Showdown.

Oh i hope so, it was one of the best episodes! XD

OT: after the review i think i may give this game a miss.

This review confused me.

Did he review it on PC or Console? He said clicks as if he played the PC game but he had complaints that only exist on console (lame compare and bad GUI, for example).

I'm also confused about his MMORPG rant. The only elements it shares with MMORPG's are the ones that Blizzard created in Diablo 2. In other words: Not a thing. Items with stats? Levels? Meaningless quests? Little to no story with most of the action happening when you aren't around? Sounds like Diablo 2 to me. But with guns. That do awesome things.

It didn't seem like he actually played the game for more than an hour. Junkyards? Yeah, you've got one of those. You've also got a lot of other things. He didn't speak about the >cool< things in the game.

I tend to like his stuff, but I only smiled at the Jason comment :(. This didn't feel inspired, and it probably wasn't. This game should have been played with less grudge and more "Oh. That's right. This is an FPS so the core of the game revolves around shooting things. With guns. Guns that do really cool things."

That is what lacked here.

Sir John the Net Knight:
Oh wow, Yahtzee takes a really good game and gives it a shellacking because it doesn't reach his "gold-plated toilet" standards. I already took this shot back when he mentioned it in Extra Punctuation, and I'm rather surprised he reviewed bitched about the game.

The game is not perfect, by any means. Especially in multi-player where the Diablo-esqe looting scenarios mean you have at least one moron running about grabbing every loose object in sight. But if Yahtzee would stop to look past the games flaws,(Ha ha ha, I made a funny!) he might see the undercurrent of satire and the fact that game really doesn't take itself seriously.

Then again, I'm still trying to figure out what Yahtzee considers to be fun. I'm sure if someone made a bitching simulator that dispensed Branson Pickle as a reward he'd still find fault with it. But I happen to...

It's because he considers it his job to locate the golden toilets. He makes a point of it NOT being his job to "overlook" flaws. What reviewer does that?

If you really dislike this type of review, then clearly ZP isn't your show.

Caiti Voltaire:

NamesAreHardToPick:

Diablo-style random weapon drops are pretty much the opposite of shitty game design, they're pretty much the best kind of carrot you can hang in front of a gamer's face. "Is this guy going to drop a better weapon? No? What about this guy?" The only "programming" that makes a player stop and analyze every new gun's stats to the point that they don't enjoy the gameplay is in his own head. Borderlands doesn't have say anything one way or the other about it.

I'm sorry, but unless I read you wrong here, you're essentially saying 'the problem with this person not liking the game is they decided to not like a rather tedious mechanic and if they just got over it, they would be okay.'

Call it a carrot if you like, but being someone who plays games to have fun and not to pack-rat-esque collect the 10 butt-scratchers of the Netherlords or the Spitoon of Satan, I end up simply finding any such item mechanic of such mostly-completely random to be tiresome at best and an excercise in Eve-esque micromanagement at worst, which is to say I would rather stick my face in a vat of hydrochloric acid.

While the success of MMORPGs indicates that I may be in a minority expressing that sentiment, it is hardly a replacement for a good story or some sort of innovative or at least somewhat refeshingly good game mechanics, both of which Borderlands seems to lack.

It's not to say that Borderlands is atrociously bad, but it is at best lackluster and the repetitive game mechanics such as the one that you seem to be defending only serve to be the proverbial nails in the coffin that keep it from having something resembling a soul.

The "MMO" tag doesn't apply to Borderlands, as I see it. It's Diablo-esqe, no doubt. But you can play BL in short spurts and aren't required to get 24 friends, 4 friends or even any friends to get things done. And these mechanics really aren't coffin nails because, when I last checked, Diablo 2 still had an extremely large player base. And comparing Borderlands to EVE isn't just wrong, it's sad.

But don't worry, Padawan. You'll get over your starry-eyed affection with Yahtzee. We all do, eventually.

Caiti Voltaire:
I'm sorry, but unless I read you wrong here, you're essentially saying 'the problem with this person not liking the game is they decided to not like a rather tedious mechanic and if they just got over it, they would be okay.'

Call it a carrot if you like, but being someone who plays games to have fun and not to pack-rat-esque collect the 10 butt-scratchers of the Netherlords or the Spitoon of Satan, I end up simply finding any such item mechanic of such mostly-completely random to be tiresome at best and an excercise in Eve-esque micromanagement at worst, which is to say I would rather stick my face in a vat of hydrochloric acid.

I take it you haven't played Borderlands.

It also looks like you have a completely ass-backwards view of what random loot is.

Random loot doesn't mean "OH MY GOD I FUCKING HATE GRINDING THIS I GET NO ITEMS EVER MAN I WANT THE BEST LOOT EVER FUUUCK!" No, that's you. Random loot means that there is a percentage chance that an item will drop.

It doesn't mean that you're going to scour the wastes for a better weapon. In fact, you'll find weapons that are vastly better than the one you have once every 15 minutes. At least. Hell, I've had a boss drop a set of weapons all of which were better than what I've had.

Your idea of random is skewed. This isn't Diablo 2 where a Zod rune has a 0.000012% chance of dropping. This is Borderlands where *insert specific item with varied stats here* has an incredibly high chance from dropping from *insert specific monster found in a specific area*.

ON TOP OF that, you have 100% guaranteed drops from certain enemies AND on top of that you have the Zod rune style drops.

If your problem is that you want the best of the best, that's not a mechanic problem.

NuclearPenguin:
One of the funniest so far.
Now im off to nag him to play MAG.
Because it is multiplayer and multiplayer ONLY.

He won't do it, he has said he won't review games based on multiplayer and further more if it's only multiplayer he fucking hates it on principle...so I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you, he'd rather review a JRPG.

Why do people whine at Yahtzee anyway? It just seems like people would have learned after over 100 episodes that Yahtzee has a general contempt for people. Wanna know what I do when I want to know how good a game is? I play the game. Simple enough. I watch Zero Punctuation just to laugh my ass off at his rants on the worst part of certain games. So far my favorite has been Bioshock and I loved Bioshock. Anyway I am just a noob on the forums so I will just fall back into lurking position. *poof*

Mass Effect 2 next week it seems....*sigh*

I like Borderlands personally and I play it mainly for the specticle of it and the multiplayer. Everything he says is true about the game though. I hope he doesn't review Final Fantasy XIII because we already know what he's gonna say about it and it'd be a waste of his time considering he can butcher other games instead. Although a review on Final Fantasy XIII would be hilarious.

Im not a big rpg fan, but about a month ago i played Borderlands in co op at my friends place and it was acctually quite fun.

Nice review, loved the beginning.

One small observation: At 23 seconds in is that the Bonesaw from Team Fortress 2? (Someone may have brought this up already, sorry)

I didn't think Borderlands was at all deserving of the praise it received. It's good to see Yahtzee slam it into the ground. And although I hate to nag, I would love to see another mailbag showdown, which would be even more enjoyable than the last one because it would be about a game I don't like.

Don't anyone else think Yahtzee didn't finish the game? I think he would have been much more harder on the story if he did.

For me it was kinda cool to shoot people in the face ten thousand times and gain something in the way, not like in normal fps where the abilities you have when you start are pretty much the same than when you finish.

And yeah, Ive been playing for like 50+ hours on single player, there must be something very wrong with me.

Get ready for the massive wave of whine that is gonna be about reviewing Bioshock 2!!!
although most of it feels legit :O

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