Goth Mercenaries

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qbanknight:
heh you really have a love-hate relationship w/ valve, on one hand they create excellent games; on the other they keep tinkering with an old one and keep holding off the conclusion to a series to infinity and beyond

Here's to Gordon Freeman being Buzz Lightyear in disguise!

Personally I loved playing Borderlands solo. I used the hunter and spec'd him out for using the Bloodwing and huge pistol damage with an awesome revolver I found :-D

I tried it MP with a friend and it just didn't feel the same, I was about 2 zones ahead of him with my character so I'd seen everything I was helping him achieve... Got really old really fast as there was no challenge for me and everything that was dropped as loot was no good to me. I pretty much just ended up as a packhorse and route guide for him.

As I have unlocked pretty much everything for all classes except Demo and soldier - I use what's best. And that's usually the base weapons. Apart from sniper - I love the huntsman, much harder, much more satisfying. Yahtzee needs to get back into tf2, have himself some fun.

Very interesting thought about how MMOGs work. Now that you mention it, those kind of places do seem bland and uninteresting without actual people running around and making it what it is.

Although my interest in those kind of games died with a particular one that will go unmentioned because quite frankly, I was one of those idiot kids that decided to spend money on a game that wasn't worth playing in the long run.

Perhaps this idea could be taken into even more of an effect sometime in the near future? It'd be interesting to see what could be accomplished with it in terms of gameplay, other than what you just described.

As for TF2, the weapons probably tore the community a new one, because now all I hear from the people who play this game are the usual "ZOMG CUNTSMAN CHARGIN TARD LOLOLOL YOU HAVE NO SKILL" that plagues the coming of new weapons. If there were more weapons like the Medic's Blutsauger and Ubersaw in that they despite their advantages, they took no more time to master than did their predecessors. It would be neat to see how that would have turned out for the other weapons.

Hopefully though, the Engineer update will be the last thing they'll do with the game balance-wise and just leave it as is.

Also, the final boss had a cheap one hit kill? I couldn't tell because of how easy the damn thing was. I was sorely disappointed by it.

-BloodRush-:

300lb. Samoan:
So Borderlands is mediocre because it doesn't give you the opportunity to show off what a non-conformist loner you are? Sounding more like a precious brat than a game reviewer here, regardless of how many people agree with you.

well if you put it that way. lol

OT: when i used to play wow i was the same way. i gave my rogue a backround as a brooding loner who sometimes has to partner up with others to take down a tyrant. it was a fun time because i only had two consistent friends and me and them worked together real well. once i got to level 70 (this was before wrath of the lich king) there was nothing else i felt i needed to do, and thus i beat the game in my head.

I'm sure that role playing in the presence of others is what part of what makes WoW so satisfying for people, but the way he describes it he only wants those people around so he can use them for his own ends and then ignore them. I doubt they see him as a 'mercenary', more likely as the hundred-millionth anonymous douche they've had tag along for a random quest. If he's going to evaluate the game he should base his opinion on the game's merits and content, not on the affectations he brings to the experience. I mean, is it annoying that New Haven is populated with wax sculptures rather than reactive characters? Yes, for sure. But if you plan on disregarding those people and being completely apathetic to them, then what's the loss? A social game should be so for the sake of social players, IE you and your two friends, not for the sake of anti-social behavior.

If the future of humanity depends solely upon our ability to agree with Yahtzee, then humanity is doomed. Or did anyone forget that this is the habit of the drooling fanboys that we've all told ourselves that we hated so much since the internet gave them a voice.

I've already bothered to argue the merits of this game in a previous set of posts, and conceded that it's hardly perfect. But that isn't the point anymore. The point is, why are we giving this kicking, screaming crybaby a forum to unleash his venomous ire upon things that are supposed to be making our lives more tolerable and, dare I say(Dare, dare!), enjoyable? In fact, why are we giving him a soapbox in the first place? One he gets payed rather well to stand on and spout profanity from.

I'm not saying that there isn't a valuable interest in pointing out things that are wrong about a game. Especially one that clearly isn't worth the ridiculous price tag. I'm just saying is there a valuable interest in time wasted, if not capital invested, in someone who has no real talent whatsoever but has a foul mouth and a chip on his shoulder? This might be a good point to let Yahtzee know that although George Carlin is dead, we are not holding a council to find an heir apparent to his vacated throne.

I find it truly hypocritical that someone would claim themselves to be a game reviewer and state to those in audience that he hates all multiplayer games because they are multiplayer. Now, I'm not saying that you are supposed to like multiplayer, but if you don't it hardly makes your opinion on the subject credible. But as I said this is tantamount to the hypocrisy that he always displays.

But what truly causes me to perform a Captain Picard style facepalm, is the utter persistence with which he demands that his word be known as law and the number of clueless tarts willing to circle about him like electrons hoping to bask in his glow. Completely and totally ignorant to the fact that he wouldn't even piss on them if he walked by and noticed they had caught fire. Something to which he has alluded to many times.

All this compounded by the fact that Yahtzee seems to hate all games in varying degrees. Which makes me wonder why he's even bothering to talk about them in the first place. But then I remember that steady paycheck and the legions of starry-eyed fanboys jockeying for a chance to be kicked in the teeth by their idol.

When I came to The Escapist a while back. I thought this place would be different from all the other websites where the measure of your worth was how much of a conformist idiot you are as well as your ability to spout pointless memes at the most inappropriate moments. I'm just sad to see that things here are starting down the same path. And frankly, I blame Mr. Croshaw.

I used to, at this point, post some kind of media reference to The Fonz jumping the shark. I don't think it's worth it anymore. Yahtzee never jumped the shark, he never got to the shark. The whole thing about the shark assumes that there was something proud and worthwhile there to begin with. And that is clearly not the case.

I'll close by saying that I expect that if Yahtzee has the fortitude to respond to these allegations, which I doubt, he'll probably find some minute typographical error to focus on that I may have overlooked. Then he'll give me an insulting moniker, and proceed to question my intelligence and/or sexuality in the same vein of the millions of trolls that graced the internet before him.

this was a nice post, but I want to know what Yahtzee thinks about the new prince of persia game you know the "forgotten sands"

I agree with you on MMOGs. I'm one of these solo players - in EVE Online, specifically - and while I play mainly on my own, seeing everyone around me doing their various errands definately supplies a much needed boost of atmosphere. EVE's population count heightens this.

Still, I do socialise in chat a bit. Got myself a bit of e-reputation, but that was a side effect of being on a server with 50k others. Kind of impossible to not speak to anyone in that environment.

So to summarize briefly, people who play MMOGs without socializing are a lot like goths in real life; angry loners who want to be angry loners where everyone can see.

True. That's why I'm still a goth. :)

I couldn't agree more with Yahtzee more on TF2, I loved the game for what it was, but now I am scared to try it again, they have changed it so much...

I play WoW, but I definitely wouldn't play any other mmo. The only thing that keeps me going is the fact that I happen to have max level achieved already, and am poised to be at it again very quickly after a new expansion is released. Plus no other mmo is as good, real talk.

PS - It also helps when literally everyone in your social circle plays on your server.

mawk:

A1:
I guess that's what makes a good game different from a great game. Namely the ability to make a long-lasting impression. I guess one such example of a great game by this token is Final Fantasy VII.

I think FFVII lasts not by any particular qualities of its own (because let's face it, it does turn-based RPG combat well, but it's nothing we hadn't seen before -- in fact, the major points are aping its immediate predecessor), but by the circumstances. it popularized the angsty loser hero type which has become so dreaded over the last decade, and manages to keep itself in the public eye by continuous and alternating attacks between those who love to buy into hype and those who hate anything to do with it.

I know challenging FFVII's superiority is a good way to get eyebrows singed basically anywhere on the internet, but I'm not; I'm just saying that its quality isn't what's kept it alive this long. it's more a combination of hype, counterhype, and memetics.

as for the actual review, I gotta agree with the "alone, but not by myself" bit, or whatever the exact quote was. I don't really play MMOs, but with all the ones I've tried and later ditched, the baseline chatter and random appearances of other players lent something to the experience, even if they're all morons. kept me interested longer that I would have been otherwise, at least, and I guess it's nice to have a knowledge base to tap into when you're wondering how to find X or which is the best method for getting past Y.

Okay. I'm sensing some hate and bias here.

But in response to this it just so happens that I still have a copy of official US Playstation Magazine Issue 47. It's from all the way back in August 2001 and talks about the Final Fantasy Games. Here's what it says about Final Fantasy VII word for word:

"So much can be said about FFVII. A truly revolutionary game, FFVII boasted a remarkable budget (some $30 million), an enormous team and a whole new approach to RPGs. Taking advantage of the new freedom afforded by the PS one's CD format, Square packed the game full of cinematic CG sequences that were simply breathtaking. The look and setting of FFVII also took an abrupt turn, with a new realism and technologically suffused world, due largely to the choice of Tetsuya Nomura as character designer (all the previous games had Amano in that position). The music finally realized it's potential, thanks to the PS one's sound capabilities. The Materia system was a new approach to customizing and developing your party. And the characters-who can forget the moody Cloud, the perky Tifa and, most of all, Aeris? We still get e-mails to this day asking if there's any way to revive Aeris. Her death midway through FFVII remains one of the most moving moments ever in a video game."

So popular and loved was the game that it ultimately gave rise to it's own franchise. The most notable result of which is probably FFVII: Advent Children.

Hype, counterhype, and memetics?

I think not. I think it has more to do with the fact that the game remains very memorable and widely loved to this very day.

No matter how much the haters would like to believe otherwise the game is and will always be one of the most influential games in Video Game history. And whether or not one considers this to be a good thing is totally beside the point.

I guess I'll have to apologize for not previously arguing with Yahtzee regarding Borderlands. Frankly, however, I didn't care enough to do so. I had a lot of fun in the game - primarily single player - and considered it well worth the price (especially considering I got it for but $40 CAD as a release-day special).

Yahtzee didn't find it fun, and that's his prerogative. As I've learned with my Twilight-loving fiance, convincing another person of something's benefits or faults is nigh-impossible if they already feel strongly about the subject.

Besides, no one expects a positive treatment from him regarding any game.

So I gave it time, waiting for things to level out again. But then came the Pyro update, and all the other updates, each one dishing out more and more funny weapons and maps I'd need time to familiarize myself with, and now there's so much extra shit going on since the last time I played that, frankly, I'm afraid to venture back in lest I be immediately flattened by twenty guys who've all spent the last two years mastering the double-piped bong rifle or whatever.

Please don't waste the internet's precious pixels by trying to convince me to get back into it.

I find statements like this one strange. I play TF2 rarely and have no idea what changes are made during updates (I rarely read the patch notes). I simply log on every couple of months and spend a whole afternoon (or two) playing and I just notice some new things here and there, maybe a new map. Perhaps I always happen to play after the update hype dies down and everything returns to normal.

As for weapons, I just try a new weapon for a round or two whenever I happen to find one and usually return to the default for the long run.

Not trying to convince anyone to get back into the game here, it's just that my contact with the game is so sparse that you would think I'd feel the same way, or at least know what Yahtzee's talking about.
Maybe I just play too casually.

Personally, TF2 was the only game I ever did online for quite a while, then my brother moved out, and I had no PC to play it on...
Yahtzee has a good point about it, though, all the new weapons might end up bogging it down. I still say to bring more levels, etc., it keeps things interesting, and it's almost like a TV series, with new episodes and ideas every now and then. But to keep with that analogy, if they ever add more characters or replace stuff without us knowing, I'm ditching that game ASAP.

That's a real pity there about the Team Fortress 2 thing Yahtzee.

Because, I'm pretty sure the Spy's Trilby hat was especially designed and released to make the Spy look a lot like Trilby does in Art of Theft.

300lb. Samoan:

-BloodRush-:

300lb. Samoan:
So Borderlands is mediocre because it doesn't give you the opportunity to show off what a non-conformist loner you are? Sounding more like a precious brat than a game reviewer here, regardless of how many people agree with you.

well if you put it that way. lol

OT: when i used to play wow i was the same way. i gave my rogue a backround as a brooding loner who sometimes has to partner up with others to take down a tyrant. it was a fun time because i only had two consistent friends and me and them worked together real well. once i got to level 70 (this was before wrath of the lich king) there was nothing else i felt i needed to do, and thus i beat the game in my head.

I'm sure that role playing in the presence of others is what part of what makes WoW so satisfying for people, but the way he describes it he only wants those people around so he can use them for his own ends and then ignore them. I doubt they see him as a 'mercenary', more likely as the hundred-millionth anonymous douche they've had tag along for a random quest. If he's going to evaluate the game he should base his opinion on the game's merits and content, not on the affectations he brings to the experience. I mean, is it annoying that New Haven is populated with wax sculptures rather than reactive characters? Yes, for sure. But if you plan on disregarding those people and being completely apathetic to them, then what's the loss? A social game should be so for the sake of social players, IE you and your two friends, not for the sake of anti-social behavior.

i agree. *marveled at understanding on the internet instead of random debate*

Apparently Yatzee doesn't realize that Valve does the TF2 updates to keep people playing throughout the years. Also, the weapons are really cool and not too hard to master/get, so... I think you need to man up, Yatzee, and play a little.

And don't be dissin' da hats! Don't you wanna look sweat chillin' with your ten gallon? Viking helmet? RUBBER CHICKEN!?!?!? They definitely don't hinder the humor/style, is what I'm trying to say.

Oh, also, the spy can get a Fedora, so... why aren't you playing TF2 for that reason alone!?

Yahtzee Croshaw:
"I don't just want to play alone; I want to play alone with other people around"

I agree. This is because I want the atmosphere and not just the activity. It's why I go to a bar and have a few drinks alone instead of drinking alone at home.

SFR:
Apparently Yatzee doesn't realize that Valve does the TF2 updates to keep people playing throughout the years. Also, the weapons are really cool and not too hard to master/get, so... I think you need to man up, Yatzee, and play a little.

And don't be dissin' da hats! Don't you wanna look sweat chillin' with your ten gallon? Viking helmet? RUBBER CHICKEN!?!?!? They definitely don't hinder the humor/style, is what I'm trying to say.

Oh, also, the spy can get a Fedora, so... why aren't you playing TF2 for that reason alone!?

Actually, me and a large portion of my friends have stopped playing because of the updates.

As it originally was, TF2 was a pure, perfectly balanced team shooter. Anyone could pick it up and understand it, but only the select few could master it. You know, like all good multiplayer games.

...but the game is nowhere near as balanced nowadays, because in introducing so much new content, Valve threw a laser beam into a perfectly functional game of rock, paper, scissors. Sometimes you need to realise when the going is good and leave it be.

I agree: I despise the class updates. I never used to, but then the game balance(already tipsy from all of the updates) was destroyed by the Soldier/Demo update.

Another game that brings the characters down to the main 3:

Soldier: Fighter
Siren:: Magic user
Berserker: Scout, but with a powerful 'shield' (think about it)

Sniper just seems to be the 'too easy' guy. Especially in multiplayer. You know what i mean, they're the pricks that steal all the kills. In single player just be farrrr away and shoot Jason Vorhees until his head explodes.

Don't u wish they could create something new, maybe mix them up? Whatever.

Totally agree on the "playing alone with other people" thing

I didn't want Yahtzee to do this game because just like all the fan boys on the gearbox forums, we know the story and the single-player experience sucks. The only reason to have him to review this game is because you want to see him try to rip into it better than the guys/gals over at the gearbox forums. I'm sad to see that he did a poor job of that.

I would rather want to see a review of "Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II." If he can't do that then maybe he can do the new installment "Chaos Rising" The single player experience in that game is so completely different from the multi-player element that actually having him review it would have merit.

I know this is probably going to sound weird, but I can't believe how much we have in common Yahtzee. That sounds a little gay, I know.

SuperMse:
Note: Even though Yahtzee is actually Anglo-Australian, he reminds me of the Sniper.

'Meet the Sniper'

"I have to admit that being a Sniper is an excellent job for a person like me. In a world where every little job and task needs to be simplified to the point where even a stupid tit who has switched the places of his brains and his breakfast and wouldn't need to worry about suing the company for sexual harrassment on the benchpress, it's nice to know that there is at least some kind of work that would pose a fair amount of challenge. Also it allows me to work outdoors instead of inside in front of a computer screen burning images of Windows Movie Maker into the back of my corneas. Though while it wouldn't give me the same amount of medical insurance and disposable income, it'll at least put food on the table. Why? Because at the end of the day as long as there are two left on this planet, well three if you count myself though I wish to not being associated with such a filthy breed, someone is going to want someone dead.
This is because the number one enemy of a typical human being other than bears, sharks, and the mutants in front of a mall during a PS3 midnight release, are other human beings.

It's not all that pleasant though. Your back being turned at all times leaves you vulnerable to all sorts of hazards that clearly were not consitered when the first caveman decided to stand in hiding, chucking pebbles at various carnivorous reptiles and Mesozoic bowlers. If you don't pay attention you'll be atatcked by the obese, Nazis, rednecks, crazies, the Bear Jew, the French, Paul Hogan, and the gimp from 'Pulp Fiction'. Also, my parents refuse to talk to me anymore; probably because I told them that I shot Paul Hogan.

Which leads me to a lack of needed feelings. Personally, having no feelings removes a large weight off my shoulders because when my occupation requires that I shoot some pissant from across an industrial park I don't need to take the time to wonder why there were dicking about in the first place: I need to focus on reloading or pissing in a jar or if I just pissed into a perfectly good jar of Branston Pickle. Here's a thought: fuck feelings! The only people who have feelings are people with large vaginas or the people who cave their skulls with golfing trophies. Professionals don't need such things.

What professionals, the kind who live in a vans and snipe the horizonially challenged of course, need are standards. And those standards are to be polite. be efficent and have a plan. Hmm. But that's probably bullshit because throwing urine isn't polite, there's no remarkable effienciecy in shooting some bald bastard who prefers eating on the job, and the only plan I seem to have is to kill everyone that come in contact with me. Not that it's hard, the only people who come to me are fanboys who decide to bug me at Starbucks and they don't usually walk away from me unless they're dead or have their Imp plushes shoved up their arse."

....bleh. I should've went to bed an hour ago.

I loved Borderlands, but that was probably because I didn't have to go through the crap that got me to quit WoW. That... and in WoW there's no aiming even if it's spell overload and actually fun like that.

Still, I loved it. I mean, yeah, I quit recently, but do plan to pick it up again soon. I mean, it took what I liked about WoW (the guns, the stats, the exp, the loot (see: guns) and mages) and combined it into something that wasn't entirely gear dependent. I could care less about the glued on crap, because I was just having too much fun running around as an overpowered Gunslinger doing gunslinger things. That is... until I beat it and done enough random runs to gouge my eyes out. I'll still play it again... I mean it's just one of those games. Kinda like S4. Sure, you have probably 1 or two small maps you'd actually play and the community can troll you to hell if you're not perfect, or mention the word love, but the game's just fucking fun.

Anyway, I guess I'm a lone wolf too. Sure in WoW I had a guild but I know in other games the second I got guilded I quit the game forever. In that case, Aika's the perfect Lone Wolf game. The solo play is awesome in it. Though... I do admit that once someone's grouped with me I'll stick with them for a while, and I'll help someone when they need it, gladly. I recommend it when the open beta releases to anyone who isn't in a group 24/7 and likes mages and spells and elves... maybe not elves and swords and gunslingers and Korean character art and whatnot.

Hehe, I love the idea of people playing WoW with Yahtzee.

Group of players in WoW finishing of a dungeon.
supapwna71: Hey, this new guy doesn't talk much huh?
MrDildo: What, [Yahtzee's tag, hiding his true identity]? Nah, he hasn't said a word. Fights well though.
GenericRPGName: yeh wtf hes soooo borin well gank him afta lol
supapwna71: Well, we're coming up to the end here.
[Yahtzee]: So long guys. Check out my video later, Zero Punctuation on the Escapist.
Yahtzee runs off. Pause.
supapwna71: Dude. Were we just playing WoW with Yahtzee?
GenericRPGName: Fuk. We shulda gankd him.

I don't play WoW, so I don't know how people speak, or if they have names like that. I just loved the idea.

300lb. Samoan:

-BloodRush-:

300lb. Samoan:
So Borderlands is mediocre because it doesn't give you the opportunity to show off what a non-conformist loner you are? Sounding more like a precious brat than a game reviewer here, regardless of how many people agree with you.

well if you put it that way. lol

OT: when i used to play wow i was the same way. i gave my rogue a backround as a brooding loner who sometimes has to partner up with others to take down a tyrant. it was a fun time because i only had two consistent friends and me and them worked together real well. once i got to level 70 (this was before wrath of the lich king) there was nothing else i felt i needed to do, and thus i beat the game in my head.

I'm sure that role playing in the presence of others is what part of what makes WoW so satisfying for people, but the way he describes it he only wants those people around so he can use them for his own ends and then ignore them. I doubt they see him as a 'mercenary', more likely as the hundred-millionth anonymous douche they've had tag along for a random quest. If he's going to evaluate the game he should base his opinion on the game's merits and content, not on the affectations he brings to the experience. I mean, is it annoying that New Haven is populated with wax sculptures rather than reactive characters? Yes, for sure. But if you plan on disregarding those people and being completely apathetic to them, then what's the loss? A social game should be so for the sake of social players, IE you and your two friends, not for the sake of anti-social behavior.

He said that WoW was mediocre.
What of it?

Seriously, I'm not saying that it's a good game, but an MMO with actual immersive quests is Runescape.
Say what you will about it, but I will defend its quests to the very end.

SomeUnregPunk:
I didn't want Yahtzee to do this game because just like all the fan boys on the gearbox forums, we know the story and the single-player experience sucks. The only reason to have him to review this game is because you want to see him try to rip into it better than the guys/gals over at the gearbox forums. I'm sad to see that he did a poor job of that.

I would rather want to see a review of "Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II." If he can't do that then maybe he can do the new installment "Chaos Rising" The single player experience in that game is so completely different from the multi-player element that actually having him review it would have merit.

I think Yahtzee has said it before.
He is useless at RTSs.
I had another comment on that topic, but I forgot it.

I actually agree with most of everything he says on his reviews, i might not break down the game as much, but things he likes or dislikes go hand and hand with my opinion... so i find it odd how people disagree with him alot

I liked this article and found it to be a good read.

However, I have to disagree with his opinion that a game must stand on its own as a single-player. You can review a game's online play without making it a review of who well your friends play so long as you are objective. By that logic reviewing the quality of a single-player game is only telling how well you play. "And that's bullshit."

I can't do MMOs either because a more forthcoming minority of the gaming community are dicks and ruin the play experience. A game has to be reviewed on its single player unless it's a pure multiplayer in which case it need not exist.
I don't mind online co-op but anymore and the chance of annoying individuals increases.

It's good to see someone with good sense in this world of MMORPGs and halo, everyone talks about the multiplayer aspects, but rarely focuses on the plots, or the changes, or the weapons or anything else, it's all boiled down to "how many people can we put on one map before the sniper has to team kill three people before he gets one guy" I don't have internet, I'm taking WIFI from somewhere with my laptop, so I don't get things like xbox live, or PSN or anything else, so games like halo and such are lost on me, my cpu is ancient and I can barely watch unskippable. I salute you Yahtzee, for standing against the MMORPG tide, and giving me an awesome slogan.

You know, most of the times Yahtzee appears to be a smart, well-versed, thoughtful young man.

Some other times though, his writing raises questions not about his sanity per se, but rather about the origins of the alien body-snatching race that took hold of his body and is using it for goals unknown but most certainly nefarious.

More to the point, the reasoning beyond the whole "Valve is butchering Team Fortress" thing seems a bit weird to me.

I've been following TF for some time now. Make no mistake - I suck at it pretty badly. Still, getting steamrolled all the time doesn't detract from the moderate amount of fun I get - because, well, because TF is a great game.

Now, updates. They are making the game more hectic and less predictable, certainly. But they also add greatly to the novelty of the game, giving a sense of joy in discovery or whatever. Saying that they overcomplicate the game and make it easier for leet kidz to pwn you is both dumb and not true - TF is not overcompicated even now which, I think, is a great achievement on Valve's behalf, and leet kidz will pwn you anyways, updates or not - such is their nature.

I have to agree though, TF blog is hilarious on its own, no actual gameplay is needed to have some fun.

Still, patricidal Victorian fuckhead? Valve? Seriously?

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