Trope-a-Dope

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Trope-a-Dope

We're all Mister Know-It-All now.

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Thank you, exactly what I was thinking.

There are a lot of jaded twats on the internet, even here on this site.

Hear that guys? No one thinks your cool.

Thank you, Bob. This is putting it in far better terms than I could ever possibly hope to.

Interesting story, too; the fact that it's insanely quoteable is certainly a plus. Especially that last line... I'm gonna put that up on my Facebook as a quote.

Ha, thanks for writing my article on "imitation" in games for me. Excellent point about a story's details.

Great article. And now to dive headfirst into what's gonna be a half-hour session of TVTroping...

Dark Templar:
Thank you, exactly what I was thinking.

There are a lot of jaded twats on the internet, even here on this site.

Hear that guys? No one thinks your cool.

Cut both ways.

My mom thinks I'm cool.

I don't suppose, Moviebob, that you got that story from anywhere? I would be very much interested in reading the science fiction equivalent of One Thousand and One Nights.

Well said. Hear hear. All that jazz. It pisses me off when people bitch about Avatar. It's one of my favorite movies now. No story is ever fully original, and anyone who claims they have one is simply ignorant of what came before them. Sometimes the story IS what makes a good movie or game, and those stand out because of it, but more often than not it is the delivery, and even the best story ever told can be soured by poor delivery. Similarly, familiar old stories can be given new life through excellent delivery.

Yes, true originality doesn't exist, but a good movie/game knows how to take a tried and true story concept and make it it's own.

The Matrix ripped off Ghost in the Shell and Terminator, but it stood on it's own two feet - the source material wasn't shoved in your face.
Same goes for Ponyo; Miyazaki took the story of The Little Mermaid and spun it around to create a unique experience.

I don't dislike Avatar because it isn't original, but because it does absolutely nothing unique in any way except for the CGI.

I've totally heard all of this before. I mean, aren't you just rehashing what many others have said Bob? I mean I could count the number of times I've seen someone stand up on a soapbox and scream "YOU'RE NOT ORIGINAL FOR DISLIKING THINGS BECAUSE THEY ARE UNORIGINAL" then I'd be an old man by the time i was through

Honestly, I thought you were above this sort of redundant bullcrap Bob. I had faith in you. I held your hand when your dog died. I weeped with you when your dad got in that horrible car accident just after realizing that in fact going to your baseball game WAS more important then going to his board meeting. I laughed and cheered your name when you won that game, even though all of the odds were against you - the other players were just so huge, and skilled, and your team was a scrappy band of rapscallions, with just a single Ringer and you, LEADING THE PACK!

For shame.

Casual Shinji:

I don't dislike Avatar because it isn't original, but because it does absolutely nothing unique in any way except for the CGI.

I disagree.

I thought the way Avatar delved into great detail about both opposing cultures, all the characters, their motivations, the technology, the biology of the forest, ect.

A ton of the small details where pretty original and the presentation of the whole thing made the movie a blast to watch. I honestly don't see how you can find NOTHING original about Avatar. There is soo much there.

well said. i see so much of this elitist attitude on WoW when someone who plays 90 hours a week starts chewing out someone who plays more casually because that person put a point into the wrong skill or put the wrong enchantment on a piece of gear. these people ruin the internet.

Dark Templar:

Casual Shinji:

I don't dislike Avatar because it isn't original, but because it does absolutely nothing unique in any way except for the CGI.

I disagree.

I thought the way Avatar delved into great detail about both opposing cultures, all the characters, their motivations, the technology, the biology of the forest, ect.

A ton of the small details where pretty original and the presentation of the whole thing made the movie a blast to watch. I honestly don't see how you can find NOTHING original about Avatar. There is soo much there.

Has the Prophet Bob taught you nothing?

Arguing with these people will get you nowhere. Accept the movie on your own and ignore the disbelievers.

Altorin:

Dark Templar:

Casual Shinji:

I don't dislike Avatar because it isn't original, but because it does absolutely nothing unique in any way except for the CGI.

I disagree.

I thought the way Avatar delved into great detail about both opposing cultures, all the characters, their motivations, the technology, the biology of the forest, ect.

A ton of the small details where pretty original and the presentation of the whole thing made the movie a blast to watch. I honestly don't see how you can find NOTHING original about Avatar. There is soo much there.

Has the Prophet Bob taught you nothing?

Arguing with these people will get you nowhere. Accept the movie on your own and ignore the disbelievers.

I'm trying to stimulate an intelligent discussion on the topic at hand. That and part of me likes to debate.

Haven't you heard that TV Tropes Will Ruin Your Life? Any movie can seem poor by pulling it apart. Yet the most fun of the recent GI Joe movie for me was tearing it apart afterward because I've seen too many of that kind of movie.

Nicely done, Bob. Probably your best Intermission so far.

This is definitely my favorite intermission article yet because it really spells out a feeling I've had for a while that fandom of all sorts is being hurt by this feeling that "we're better than the material", which is really making a lot of people all sorts of pretentious.

Ironically, this is probably most exemplified by another commentator on this very website...

(Yeah, I know I'm extending Bob's thesis a lot)

Being a rabid TVTropes diver myself, I can definitely resonate with what's going on here. As much as I love that site, I never let it destroy my own sense of judgment on something, lest what you described happen to me. I mean, if it kept on going the way you said, God forbid how bad it would be with future movies...

Guy 1: Hey, did you want to go see "Adventures of Crotch-Puncher" with me tonight? I heard it's awesome!
Guy 2: No way, dude, that movie is such a boring ripoff. The first word in the movie is "the", and, like, MILLIONS of other movies have started that same way. So cliche, dude.

I'd say this elequently encapsulates my feelings on the subject. It just so happens that there are only a few variations on the tradtional video game narrative, but sometimes those irrelevent differences are all that stand between a game who may as well entirely dismiss the premise that the narrative needs to exist and a game who's story is compelling and engaging enough to experience for the sake of story and character alone.

Good stuff, all in all I agree that you can pick apart any movie and say that it's all be done before. At the end of the day though, that's kind of a useless thing to do and you should observe each movie for how well it executed itself.

-----

Having said that, I wasn't wowed by Avatar not because it's "Dances with wolves in space" but because I found it to be childish, manipulative and guilty of the unforgivable in my eyes sin of being contrived.

Dark Templar:

Casual Shinji:

I don't dislike Avatar because it isn't original, but because it does absolutely nothing unique in any way except for the CGI.

I disagree.

I thought the way Avatar delved into great detail about both opposing cultures, all the characters, their motivations, the technology, the biology of the forest, ect.

A ton of the small details where pretty original and the presentation of the whole thing made the movie a blast to watch. I honestly don't see how you can find NOTHING original about Avatar. There is soo much there.

It was completely unoriginal in narrative. The visuals were stunning. The world details in the other materials were fascinating but largely not included in the movie. The cultures were not original, they weren't supposed to be, it would have ruined allegory and message.

So, it's great eye candy with a wealth of details implied but not examined in the movie. I liked the movie but I prefer more originality in narrative so I didn't think it should be lauded as great movie. But that's why it's art, people can disagree.

Didn't you just go on this huge tirade about how Legion was crap because it had similarities to The Prophecy. I'm sorry man you just get more and more hypocritical with each review.

I know quite a few people who need to read this.

MovieBob:
Trope-a-Dope

We're all Mister Know-It-All now.

Read Full Article

I feel a strange sense of epiphany the first minute after reading your article.
I get a glimpse of a clearer world where everything makes sense.
Then the glimpse becomes a moment and the moment becomes a time.
And slowly, surely the epiphany becomes a boring fact.
The world is murky.
Although clearer than before, I cannot see that anymore.
You've told me nothing new.

I really enjoyed the article although I don't watch movies very much (maybe one new one a month?), but its interesting what so many movies have in common.

lokidr:

Dark Templar:

Casual Shinji:

I don't dislike Avatar because it isn't original, but because it does absolutely nothing unique in any way except for the CGI.

I disagree.

I thought the way Avatar delved into great detail about both opposing cultures, all the characters, their motivations, the technology, the biology of the forest, ect.

A ton of the small details where pretty original and the presentation of the whole thing made the movie a blast to watch. I honestly don't see how you can find NOTHING original about Avatar. There is soo much there.

It was completely unoriginal in narrative. The visuals were stunning. The world details in the other materials were fascinating but largely not included in the movie. The cultures were not original, they weren't supposed to be, it would have ruined allegory and message.

So, it's great eye candy with a wealth of details implied but not examined in the movie. I liked the movie but I prefer more originality in narrative so I didn't think it should be lauded as great movie. But that's why it's art, people can disagree.

Indeed, our differences in opinion are what make for interesting conversation.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the it may not be original as a whole the shear amount of depth was stunning enough to make me like the movie.

I may just be biased though. I'm part native american and just love a good FUCK YOU WHITE MAN type movie XD

Dark Templar:

Casual Shinji:

I don't dislike Avatar because it isn't original, but because it does absolutely nothing unique in any way except for the CGI.

I disagree.

I thought the way Avatar delved into great detail about both opposing cultures, all the characters, their motivations, the technology, the biology of the forest, ect.

A ton of the small details where pretty original and the presentation of the whole thing made the movie a blast to watch. I honestly don't see how you can find NOTHING original about Avatar. There is soo much there.

I would have to disagree with you on the idea that the movie plunged into any great detail with regards to almost anything. I'd especially have to disagree with the thought that the film went into detail with any of the characters.
The movie was about the visuals and the planet's ecosystem, the story and characters were secondary to that and suffered for it.
Good movies 'hide' their clichés with detail and engaging characters. When a film gets called out on how cliché it is, I usually see it as a result of the movie giving the audience little else to engage with.

He he, tvtropes. I once told my English teacher that a story we had read had a "Diablos ex machina" ending and she said she would fail me if I ever spoke that term again.

The subject this intermission goes into reminds me of somewhat the moral that the South Park episode "Simpsons Already Did It" made. Lots of movies, tv shows, and other forms of entertainment are similar to something that was already made in the past, but that shouldn't take away the fact many of those things were still good or entertaining. Yes, orginality is important to some degree, but making the film well executed and fresh matters just as much.

Dark Templar:

I thought the way Avatar delved into great detail about both opposing cultures, all the characters, their motivations, the technology, the biology of the forest, ect.

Then I guess I missed a whole lot of story. Nothing about the Na'vi seemed interesting or involving, they were just the typical benovolent treehuggers. Nature can be just as evil and ruthless as humanity and if the Na'vi are in touch with that then some of that heart of darkness should intermingle with them. But everything about them was pure and good without even the least bit of fault.
And the humans were evil because they had guns. You don't hear anything about Earth in the 22d century or why unobtanium is so important that it's worth risking billions of dollars and thousands of human lives. I'm not even mentioning the culture shock that must've come with discovering a lush and inhabited alien planet.
Plus, the character of Jake was as flat and tasteless as bag of flower. There was no sense of conquest or suspense, because everyting he did he succeeded at in the very first try. He captures a legendary beast that none of the Na'vi had conquered in ages just by snapping his fingers? I'm sorry, but in order for me to have a little respect for a character he or she needs to atleast break a sweat.

A ton of the small details where pretty original and the presentation of the whole thing made the movie a blast to watch. I honestly don't see how you can find NOTHING original about Avatar. There is soo much there.

I guess the squigly sushi that came out of the Na'vi's pony tails was original. But I found that whole thing very silly and unnessecary. I don't mind that they have a literal connection with nature, but they could've made it that the nerv endings in the palms of their hands and feet were super sensitive to bio energy, or someting.

I don't hate this movie, I just found the whole thing, except for the GCI, very bare bones. Good looking bones as they may be, but still bare.

I have the strange feeling that, by linking TVTropes in your article repeatedly, the sheer number of folks who probably lost the last several paragraphs of the article, much less those who would comment, are now lost in a self-fueling romp through the ever-loved TV-Wiki.

As far as the sentiment goes, it's hard to imagine a world that isn't as competitive as this one. It means that Everyone has to be faster, stronger, better, and more knowledgeable than everyone else. It's made casual games of Trivial Pursuit become taunt-filled evenings of challenges and bets. It's given any game online scoreboards, everything a clear winner or loser. Sports become less about sports, and end up becoming important in sportsmanship. So is it any surprise that "I know more than you." has become a national pastime with something that would otherwise just be about entertainment.

So, to be brief, I think this all boils down to Que sera, sera.

Maybe now people will stop calling every Sonic the Hedgehog game ever utter shit (hey, this extends to video games too, and books, and TV).

Ah, who am I kidding, people will constantly post a picture of The Sonic Cycle and instantly say a game is crap before it even comes out...

I never got the complaints that Avatar was too much like Pocahontas or Dancing with With Wolves. It's an allegory of the material that those two movies were based on. It's like complaining that Animal Farm is Stalin with Pigs.

Dark Templar:
Thank you, exactly what I was thinking.

There are a lot of jaded twats on the internet, even here on this site.

Hear that guys? No one thinks your cool.

Exemplifying this trope.

MovieBob:
Trope-a-Dope

We're all Mister Know-It-All now.

Read Full Article

Bob, I've love your Game Overthinker, I love Escape to the Movies and in general think you are fairly awesome. However, this is easily the best thing I've seen from you. Granted, this is entirely on a subjective level, but I have an overpowering urge to revisit dozens of forum threads and conversations just to shove these three pages of text in the faces of some people.

Excellent work!

Dark Templar:
Thank you, exactly what I was thinking.

There are a lot of jaded twats on the internet, even here on this site.

Hear that guys? No one thinks your cool.

the internet responds with "the feeling's mutual buddy"

Also, bob, for thread title, we would have also excepted Trope on a Rope

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