Zero Punctuation: Dante's Inferno

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geldonyetich:

A1:

geldonyetich:

A1:

geldonyetich:

A1:
As far as straw man tactics go I've seen a lot better than that.

That's not a straw man tactic. It's an overenthusiastic expression of exasperation that you misinterpreted my message.

Which failed.

Granted, this shouldn't surprise me. As as been my experience of forums, if someone didn't bother to read and understand what I wrote the first time, they won't the second or subsequent times either.

The two games may be of the same genre but the similarities pretty much end there for the most part. And let's not forget that story and characters are important parts to factor in too. And a key word here is "seems". It would be nice if you could reserve passing judgement until after the game has actually been released and has had a chance to prove it's worth to the gaming community.

To clarify, the reason I mentioned Devil May Cry isn't because the game is better or worse than God Of War but rather because Devil May Cry did the genre first. [Edit: Lest we run into anybody else as thick as Shadow Skill, don't take the word "genre" as implying "Action" or "Beat'Em'Ups" or "Fighting" or any silly word someone tasked with categorizing games might have put under the word "genre." Instead, think of it as something much more specific to the God of War/Devil May Cry experience.]

Again, that you chose to interpret this as me judging anything is wrong. I'm guessing you're chomping at the bit to get back into some long gone Devil May Cry vrs God Of War thread. I've some bad news there:

[Jedi Wave] this is not the Devil May Cry vs God Of War post you are looking for.

Do you know what straw man tactics are?
Essentially a straw man tactic is when someone takes something that's easy to attack or counter and attributes it to their opponent. Or perhaps more formally it's misrepresenting your opponent's position.

""You: OMG! GOW-III IS SO MUCH BETTER THAN DEVIL MAY CRY! I'M GOING TO NAME MY FIRST BORN SON KRATOS AND CAST YOU DOWN INTO A PIT OF DESPAIR FOR DARING TO SLANDER THE GOD OF WAR NAME.""

Aww, I'm sowwy, did I hurt your feelings so badly with my tongue-in-cheek comment in the capital letters above that anyone with two brain cells to rub together should be able to figure out wasn't meant to be taken seriously that you immediately fell back into "STRAW MAN! IT'S A STRAW MAN! MAKE THE BAD MAN STOP!" mode?

Well, because you did take it seriously, you're already existing in a state of delusion. It wasn't meant to be interpreted as an argument, it was meant to be interpreted as a "you misread my message" wake up call. Therefore, to call it a Straw Man argument makes no sense because it wasn't even being used as an argument.

How about you look past your little tiny hurt ego and understand the message I was attempting to convey? I already explained it to you once. I know this because you've quoted where I explained it. My experiences with Shadow Skill on this thread remind me why I should not bother explaining it again.

It's my fault, really - I shouldn't have even bothered to reply to you. From your very first message, it's clear you're desperate to pick a fight, because you actually went out of your way to misread my original comment in such a way that you could try to interpret it as an invitation.

You continue to be presumptuous. This wasn't about my ego or trying to pick a fight, especially in desperation. This was about trying to have a mature and sophisticated debate. Although evidently there are those who don't particularly care for this idea. Well then so be it.

I wrote that I'm bored of God of War / Devil May Cry games.

You misinterpreted this as me saying Devil May Cry is better than God Of War and proceeded to build the fanboi's defense of it.

I explained you misread what I wrote.

That is all.

Exactly where do you see a debate here?

Where exactly did I say anything about anything being better than anything else?

It would seem that you are the one who has misinterpreted.

But anyway, I as said be they of the same genre or not the gap between Devil May Cry and God of War seems to be growing ever larger. A case in point would probably be the one of the latest videos from Gametrailers.com:

http://gamer.blorge.com/2010/02/27/god-of-war-iii-is-absolutely-stunning-gametrailers/

Therefore comparisons between the two wouldn't seem to be as plausible as they once may have been.

Sounds like he went on too long a rant and lost breathe around 2:45. I blame him though, not like I game rant at insanely high speeds while providing split second cut scenes made from epic (not by Epic).

Whatever ails you, Yahtzee, get better!

A1:
But anyway, I as said be they of the same genre or not the gap between Devil May Cry and God of War seems to be growing ever larger. A case in point would probably be the one of the latest videos from Gametrailers.com:

http://gamer.blorge.com/2010/02/27/god-of-war-iii-is-absolutely-stunning-gametrailers/

Therefore comparisons between the two wouldn't seem to be as plausible as they once may have been.

Well, I watched that video just now, and I can't help but think that you're a bit bedazzled by the presentation.

A lot of what you're seeing there is just quick time events (although sometimes they removed the buttons queues from the screen) and that's nothing new for God of War. The rest is not that different from Devil May Cry: kill things artistically and have orbs pop out.

The bottom line is that I can see just by looking at it that it's still something I'll be bored of. Sure, they've done a better job of choreographing it, but I'm a pure gamer, I don't play games to watch. So my original comment that I wish the developers would innovate more still applies.

geldonyetich:

A1:
But anyway, I as said be they of the same genre or not the gap between Devil May Cry and God of War seems to be growing ever larger. A case in point would probably be the one of the latest videos from Gametrailers.com:

http://gamer.blorge.com/2010/02/27/god-of-war-iii-is-absolutely-stunning-gametrailers/

Therefore comparisons between the two wouldn't seem to be as plausible as they once may have been.

Well, I watched that video just now, and I can't help but think that you're a bit bedazzled by the presentation.

A lot of what you're seeing there is just quick time events (although sometimes they removed the buttons queues from the screen) and that's nothing new for God of War. The rest is not that different from Devil May Cry: kill things artistically and have orbs pop out.

The bottom line is that I can see just by looking at it that it's still something I'll be bored of. Sure, they've done a better job of choreographing it, but I'm a pure gamer, I don't play games to watch. So my original comment that I wish the developers would innovate more still applies.

There's plenty of non quick-time event action in there. They outright point out that they've made the combat more flexible. And quick time events without button queues? Describing gameplay as such can be a rather slippery slope. You could potentially describe any game that uses real time action as simply a matter of pressing the right buttons or inputing the right commands at the right times in order to advance. It would seem that one of the defining features of quick-time events is the visual button prompts. And I think that's something that Yahtzee would probably agree with based on his review of Wet. And by the way even though Yahtzee generally doesn't care for quick time events (in large part because they often aren't done well it would seem) he has also said that God of War's take on quick time events works best for him.

And "kill things artistically"? I think not. Yahtzee has recently posted his Extra Punctuation article on Dante's Inferno and in it he counters the Devil May Cry/God of War argument. So I think you should definitely check it out if you haven't already. Hopefully I'll see you over on the comment section for that article.

BOUGHT IT PLAYED IT AND LOVED IT! although it is a rip off of GOW why tamper with perfection? I also LOVED how the game looked beads of sweat and CORRECT mouth movments made the game alot more immersive. Btw it should be considered better than gow because it adds to it "Rpg level up element". so you might have a hard-on for GOW or not i loved it and its something to experiance if you have any of the systems it runs on. LUL lust and the tornado make complete sense, unless you're poeticly challenged or your brain is just made out of wood.

Heavy rain please ;D

Another amazing review! I've got my money on heavy rain for tomorrow.

I agree it's a fair game, not the best, but it's entertaining! Solid review, but I would've made a comment about the movie franchise ripping off the game more so than the game ripping off GoW. Especially because the creators of GoW actually LIKED this game lol.

A1:
And "kill things artistically"? I think not. Yahtzee has recently posted his Extra Punctuation article on Dante's Inferno and in it he counters the Devil May Cry/God of War argument. So I think you should definitely check it out if you haven't already. Hopefully I'll see you over on the comment section for that article.

Well, alright:

Yahtzee:
I've heard this argument before, and it doesn't hold weight for me. Being the first doesn't necessarily mean you get to be the benchmark: Doom was the game that put FPSes on the map, after all, despite Wolfenstein 3D being the first (and there were others that were even earlier, like Catacomb 3-D). Devil May Cry might have created a model for frantic hack-and-slash gameplay, but God of War gave it style.

Besides, despite similarities in the core gameplay, God of War and Devil May Cry aren't cut from the same cloth. It seems more like they're heading vaguely towards the same place from vastly different directions. DMC has more of the Japanese-style hack and slash about it - extremely over-the-top, with more emphasis on combat variety and less on level design, and with end-of-mission scoring screens that give a more arcade-y feel. Whereas God of War's model has greater emphasis on environments and storytelling but with gameplay that's more function-over-style, treating monsters more as obstacles to get past than opportunities to show off your skills. And that's what Dante's Inferno rips off. So there.

"Created a model for frantic hack-and-slash gameplay, but God of War gave it style" pretty much says that Devil May Cry created this model of game and God of War did little more but garnish it up, whether or not the argument "holds weight" with Yahtzee.

Bottom line, it's this model I'm bored of. God of War might have added "environments and storytelling" or "style" to it, but I don't play these types of games for those aspects, so that does not impress me at all. If the core gameplay bores me, I'm not going to keep playing for the bells and whistles.

You might want to debate that, but you can't. It's my opinion, my perspective on games. You'd have a better chance at debating the sun won't rise the next day.

What do you expect to do? Convince me not to be bored? Good luck with that - perhaps you've a career in politics ahead of you. However, even then, I'd be among the voter base who isn't so very braindead as to be so easily manipulated. Do you treat your friends that way when they dislike stuff you like? There's a term for that: Narcissistic personality disorder.

geldonyetich:

A1:
And "kill things artistically"? I think not. Yahtzee has recently posted his Extra Punctuation article on Dante's Inferno and in it he counters the Devil May Cry/God of War argument. So I think you should definitely check it out if you haven't already. Hopefully I'll see you over on the comment section for that article.

Well, alright:

Yahtzee:
I've heard this argument before, and it doesn't hold weight for me. Being the first doesn't necessarily mean you get to be the benchmark: Doom was the game that put FPSes on the map, after all, despite Wolfenstein 3D being the first (and there were others that were even earlier, like Catacomb 3-D). Devil May Cry might have created a model for frantic hack-and-slash gameplay, but God of War gave it style.

Besides, despite similarities in the core gameplay, God of War and Devil May Cry aren't cut from the same cloth. It seems more like they're heading vaguely towards the same place from vastly different directions. DMC has more of the Japanese-style hack and slash about it - extremely over-the-top, with more emphasis on combat variety and less on level design, and with end-of-mission scoring screens that give a more arcade-y feel. Whereas God of War's model has greater emphasis on environments and storytelling but with gameplay that's more function-over-style, treating monsters more as obstacles to get past than opportunities to show off your skills. And that's what Dante's Inferno rips off. So there.

"Created a model for frantic hack-and-slash gameplay, but God of War gave it style" pretty much says that Devil May Cry created this model of game and God of War did little more but garnish it up, whether or not the argument "holds weight" with Yahtzee.

Bottom line, it's this model I'm bored of. God of War might have added "environments and storytelling" or "style" to it, but I don't play these types of games for those aspects, so that does not impress me at all. If the core gameplay bores me, I'm not going to keep playing for the bells and whistles.

You might want to debate that, but you can't. It's my opinion, my perspective on games. You'd have a better chance at debating the sun won't rise the next day.

What do you expect to do? Convince me not to be bored? Good luck with that - perhaps you've a career in politics ahead of you. However, even then, I'd be among the voter base who isn't so very braindead as to be so easily manipulated. Do you treat your friends that way when they dislike stuff you like? There's a term for that: Narcissistic personality disorder.

I guess the point is that with the arrival of God of War III the God of War franchise seems to be putting more emphasis than ever on the things that set it apart from the Devil May Cry franchise. Therefore comparisons between the two would seem to be becoming more and more of a stretch, so to speak.

But of course if none of the said things do it for you, then so be it. But just out of curiosity and if you don't mind me asking, just what exactly does do it for you? Or in other words what exactly would you say is your favorite current generation game?

I would have enjoyed a mention of how Dante's Inferno's setting is the distillation and artificial fantasy of Hell, the theme park. But maybe I'll just claim that joke for myself :D Otherwise, from this first time poster long time viewer the review does nothing to detract from my respect and admiration of Yahtzee as my intellectual superior. (To borrow a witticism 'slurp slurp tongue bath slurp')

A1:
I guess the point is that with the arrival of God of War III the God of War franchise seems to be putting more emphasis than ever on the things that set it apart from the Devil May Cry franchise. Therefore comparisons between the two would seem to be becoming more and more of a stretch, so to speak.

I've played God of War I and II. From my perspective, what God of War III is doing is doing the same things GoW did but bigger. It's a multimedia advancement, but not a significant advancement in core game play.

But of course if none of the said things do it for you, then so be it. But just out of curiosity and if you don't mind me asking, just what exactly does do it for you? Or in other words what exactly would you say is your favorite current generation game?

The kinds of things I like in games these days seems to be a lot of deep choices. I've actually found myself attracted more to strategy games. However, that's not to say I couldn't enjoy an action game of the formula of Devil May Cry/God Of war -- they just need to innovate in the direction of giving me more sophistication of play. Deeper combo building and whatnot.

Yeah Im gonna trade in my copy of DI and Bioshock 2 today, Dante's Inferno was good but just not worth two playthroughs

Hairy Bum!

geldonyetich:

A1:
I guess the point is that with the arrival of God of War III the God of War franchise seems to be putting more emphasis than ever on the things that set it apart from the Devil May Cry franchise. Therefore comparisons between the two would seem to be becoming more and more of a stretch, so to speak.

I've played God of War I and II. From my perspective, what God of War III is doing is doing the same things GoW did but bigger. It's a multimedia advancement, but not a significant advancement in core game play.

But of course if none of the said things do it for you, then so be it. But just out of curiosity and if you don't mind me asking, just what exactly does do it for you? Or in other words what exactly would you say is your favorite current generation game?

The kinds of things I like in games these days seems to be a lot of deep choices. I've actually found myself attracted more to strategy games. However, that's not to say I couldn't enjoy an action game of the formula of Devil May Cry/God Of war -- they just need to innovate in the direction of giving me more sophistication of play. Deeper combo building and whatnot.

That's interesting. Yahtzee actually addressed this issue back in his review of God of War: Chains of Olympus. In it he says that he's not sure how he feels about the rigidly unchanging formula of the God of War series because he is always the first to cry foul whenever developers wipe their dicks all over a good thing just for innovation's sake. And he acknowledge that there's nothing about God of War that really needs changing because all of it's element fit very nicely together.

I not sure if I would say that God of War III lacks innovation. Perhaps it does innovate but only in certain ways. Specifically taking the things it's already done and improving upon them to the point of perfection or near-perfection. Or polishing them to a an incredibly bright shine. And even then I'm not quite sure if that's all there is to it.

I think it's interesting that you should bring up the idea of deeper combo building because in the video the designers seem to have some encouraging things to say with regard to that. Like Kratos having "tons of new moves", and weapon switching being really accessible, and that people can't simply go through the game just massing square, square, triangle. And of course the combat system being a lot more flexible this time. So if I may be so bold I think it might be a good idea to remain on the fence for at least a while longer and hold of on making your final decision about the game until there is more concrete information available.

A1:
That's interesting. Yahtzee actually addressed this issue back in his review of God of War: Chains of Olympus. In it he says that he's not sure how he feels about the rigidly unchanging formula of the God of War series because he is always the first to cry foul whenever developers wipe their dicks all over a good thing just for innovation's sake. And he acknowledge that there's nothing about God of War that really needs changing because all of it's element fit very nicely together.

Well, viewing that video now, I'd say you're jumping at shadows. There's a difference between "wiping their dicks all over a good thing just for innovation's sake," which he mentioned here, and "milking a franchise until it bleeds pure monotony" (without adequately innovating from the last game) which mentions in just about every other review he does.

No truly discerning reviewer really means to imply, "well, you know what, this game is perfect - don't even try to make it better." If they do, I'd say they've taken leave of their "truly discerning" descriptor. Demanding creativity cease to influence a game is like demanding they put extra bland in your food because, no matter how palatable it might be today, chances are you're going to get tired of it if you've been chewing the same thing for years.

I think it's interesting that you should bring up the idea of deeper combo building because in the video the designers seem to have some encouraging things to say with regard to that. Like Kratos having "tons of new moves", and weapon switching being really accessible, and that people can't simply go through the game just massing square, square, triangle. And of course the combat system being a lot more flexible this time. So if I may be so bold I think it might be a good idea to remain on the fence for at least a while longer and hold of on making your final decision about the game until there is more concrete information available.

Maybe so. I'll wait until I can see the finished game in action.

There, you finally got that out of me, but only specially because there's a chance they might have crammed something of substance (read: beyond mere cinematic presentation) in GoW III.

Yahtzee. While Dante's Inferno is a steaming load of shit and a total God of War rip-off, I will say this: As tired and cliched as Hack-and-slash, quick-time, "Press X not to die, dumbass" games are, How many First Person Shooter games are on the market right now? I can count at least 20. You are right though. I'm extremely tired of quick-time events.

Im still unsure if I want to get it . .. I will wait untill I get to the end of Darksiders and Bioshock 2 and then I will know

-M

I actually liked this game and I really thought I wouldn't, not because Yatzee talked ill of it but I usually look at multiple reviews before picking something up and it didn't sit so well with many critics. But surprisingly I still thought it was good, not the greatest but a worthy hack and slash that held me over for a bit while waiting for God of War III. Maybe I just liked it since I had much much much lower expectations, sometimes that's enough... or maybe I just felt relieved needing a reason to forget I had just played Alien vs Predator. Plus I'm actually glad I played this it just makes watching these reviews more hilarious since I get more of the references. Anyhow, can't expect Yatzee to say he likes anything it might take away from his shtick I look forward to every week, so while he might talk bad about games I like I don't hold it against his judgment in any way.

I saw a reference to Ludo as part of the Sunday agenda, and I was curious as to which Ludo is meant. Is it the board game Ludo, or the band Ludo (which takes its namesake from the following), or the gentile beast Ludo from film The Labyrinth? In any case, all are fantastic options to spend time with after a good day of wanks.

So, I'm sure someone comeented on this, but at the end of his video, yhatzee asked "mr. aligheri" what winds have to do with lust. The point is that people who are lustful crave Human contact (i.e. sex)... if they're being blown around uncontrolably in a giant wind storm, they can't get the one thing they really want. Thus, they're in hell.

GREAT REVIEW YAHTZEE!!

lol, for those wondering, the "hairy bum" is at the end of the game, u get nice shot of Dante's hairy ass, as he stands on a cliff looking out over purgatory.

One thing I really wish Yahtzee would have talked about is his opinion on the way Hell's levels look; I'm interested to see what he thinks of the game's interpretation of them.

Seeing as I only have an Xbox 360 my wait for God of War 3 might be a fucking long one!

Good review if you plan to buy this for a PS3 but most of it kind of fails for all us 360 owners due to the fact that we can't purchase God of War so Dante's Inferno is all we have.

As for the game, I've completed it and can say it's good but not worth full price. Wait for it to drip down a bit and give it a go as it's a good 7 - 8 hours of fun.

he didn't mention that the box sang "Never Gonna Give You Up"
rick roll'd =D

Love the way Yahtzee talks about how much health the enemies have. His voice when saying "you repeatedly bash a low-level zombie like you're trying to make fire without matches on his face," was so expressive with desperate annoyance that it makes me smile every time I hear it.

-It's like my right hand on a Sunday night
-Why?
-It beats the fuck out of me

Possibly the best joke I have ever heard XD

Thoroughly enjoyed 2:43

The wind actually prevented the lovers from touching one another. As their lust had been their undoing, it became their greatest punishment in the end. They would forever be denied the ability to embrace their love.

best line ever "its like my right hand on a saturday night" "why?" "beats the fuck out of me"

Before I see Zero Punctuation, I thought about buying Dante`s Inferno, but now I think that I will wait and spend my money in a better game like, I donīt know, God of War III.

I really like your Outlook on the World :) bd
Also, Kudos for actually READING Dante Alighieri's "Divina Comedia" ...and now that i think about it, it DID bear striking similarities to Slash-Fanfiction :3

I personally liked Dante's inferno- true- it only has one actual weapon and the story is changed a bit to make it so he's not a terrified poet but an actual playable fighting crusader. But still, the visual's were well designed, it was dark and eerie, especially with the moaning and skeleton cages holding dammned souls etc.

Anyways, this video is hilarious, even though I did actually think the game was pretty good. ^^

Keep being hilarious yahtzee

oops- sorry-trying to get used to this forum posting specifics

DukeOfNYaNumba1:
I actually liked this game and I really thought I wouldn't, not because Yatzee talked ill of it but I usually look at multiple reviews before picking something up and it didn't sit so well with many critics. But surprisingly I still thought it was good, not the greatest but a worthy hack and slash that held me over for a bit while waiting for God of War III. Maybe I just liked it since I had much much much lower expectations, sometimes that's enough... or maybe I just felt relieved needing a reason to forget I had just played Alien vs Predator. Plus I'm actually glad I played this it just makes watching these reviews more hilarious since I get more of the references. Anyhow, can't expect Yatzee to say he likes anything it might take away from his shtick I look forward to every week, so while he might talk bad about games I like I don't hold it against his judgment in any way.

well said! ^^ I agree with you- definately not the best game, but pretty good and worth buying I think. And yes, though Yahtzee doesn't like some games I like there's nothing wrong with that. Besides, his usual attitude and rants are always freaking hilarious.

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