Connectivity

 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 NEXT
 

Connectivity

The space-buggy sections in Mass Effect 2 may have been annoying, but at least they were there.

Read Full Article

I actually somewhat agree about ME2 lacking "bigness," and it's why I can't decide whether the game's lack of Mako is a good or bad thing. The game's a definite improvement in my mind, but then rather than tossing the vehicle thing away altogether, I wish they'd just worked on improving it, because you're right, it really gave ME1 a sense of scale. The upcoming hovertank DLC seems to indicate they're willing to experiment with the idea still, so maybe they'll be bringing it back in the third one. Especially given the criticism they've received for the mining stuff in ME2.

This reminds me of wind waker, to be honest; a lot of people complained about boring sailing sections, but really, it helped me believe I was travelling across the vast ocean. I liked the change of pace at any rate. Immersion is something I go for a lot in games, and a little tedium here and there wouldn't really bother me if it strengthens that.

I don't think simply having an airlock would have been the magic trick for me. I would much rather have explored more of the cities, even if there wasn't anything in particular to interact with in these places. The Citadel has rapid transit for no reason now. You can walk up a flight of stairs to get where the rapid transit will take you. It feels small because it is small. Giving me an airlock won't fix that.

On the other hand, it was nice they changed up the environments for the side quests. The side quests were much meatier this game, as opposed to dropping underground to a two room bunker. On a side (slightly related) note - although these places seemed repetitive in ME, it actually made sense to me that all these places looked the same. If you were trying to create a standardized outpost that could be set up in a flash, it probably would look like the space version of a Dilbert Cubicle.

At least in ME2 they brought you to actual planets to do these side quests, instead of those generic outposts.

i think you brought this up in your oblivion review, how its teleportation fast travel made the huge game world seem small compared to wow where you could see the world and areas change below you, i had the same problem with asscreed 2, the instant travel made it seem like i was just jumping from one training area to the next (i know thats what was happening, but still).

but in some games you can fight that, for instance i never used the fast travel in fallout 3, crawling around the wasteland hiding from the enemies made the game that much more immersive.

I too need a good space sim.
No one can tell me a mixture of Freelancer and Mass Effect wouldn't be the most amazing game ever.

Hey, just so long as Hole makes a cameo appearance, I'll be satisfied with your game, Yahtzee.

Juan Regular:
I too need a good space sim.
No one can tell me a mixture of Freelancer and Mass Effect wouldn't be the most amazing game ever.

Wait, why do you need to mix something with Freelancer again?

Basically, the consensus seems to be we want the mako backm but we want the planets to have plants fauna and flora (did I spell fauna right?) and for the mako to be able to go from point A to place 2 comfortably.

I look forward with great interest to the game you're making. Sounds like a good idea.

I'd love another epic space sim one of these days, haven't played a good one for many years.

This space game of yours you could make into a Starfox esq game without any fighting, kinda like its training level where you have to fly through rings. Just make it so its not Rings (aliens, asteroids, etc) and it sounds promising.

Only problem is, your the dev xD

You make a good point. Considering the game in rich in story and dialog to add to immersion it then gives the 'press B to complete mission' button which then breaks the said immersion.

Bioware have definatly tried to go for the FPS style game with ME2 and even though its stripped away some of the bad stuff its also taken out some of the stuff that makes the game feel 'right'.

I'm actually quite surprised you didn't mention anything about the sence of urgency in the game - since it starts off saying "Oh no! Aliens are taking humans, you are the only one who can stop them! (Sound familiar? :P)". Then the game allows you to take as many side quests and optional missions as you like without consequence. I could imagine the colinists and collectors on Horizon just waiting for you to finish off what you were doing before commencing the human harvest.

In total I think there is only about 3 missions that actually involve the 'big bad collectors' and the rest of the content is side quests that serve no real purpose (of moving the story along) other than grant xp and artificially lengthen the game.

I never thought of it until now, but that walk from the galaxy map to the airlock would make a great deal of difference, especially if it segued from there to the loading screen involving the airlock itself.

Yahtzee's Frontier experience is one I had with a game called Privateer. I wasted so many hours flying from one system to another just to trade commodities because I was in space.

This was probably the first sign of how incredibly dull I am.

so, we get the "destroy the beam cannons of the Satanas" mission of Freespace 2 with a Descent-like control scheme? *uhhhh shiny*

On Topic: My guess they deemed it unnecessary and "boring" to show the transition between ship and "warehouse"; I think I would like it, when they would reimplement that, possible with the option to disable said transition in the options.

Hey Yahtzee,
It sounds to me like what you're looking to build here is a more open world, wider version of Descent.
There's a classic cross genre. Space shooter / FPS. The controls took a long time to get used to, but it was a fun game when you did, and it's multiplayer was like Quake with Zero G and Jetpacks!
Just food for thought, and maybe a for a touch of insperation.

Scott Glasgow

Actually I think there is more overlap between the "space sim" and RPG crowd than you give credit for. While you blasted it, look at say EVE Online. Also while it underperformed I saw a lot of potential in the old game "Earth and Beyond" which struck me as something that would have worked well as an addition to another game.

Not to mention the amount of time *I* put into games like "Trade Wars", "Yankee Trader", "Terra Firma", and "Galactic Warzone" on old BBS systems before I ever got onto The Internet.

At any rate, I do agree that they could do more with Mass Effect, and I also think that the "buggy" sections were a good idea, but hideously implemented. I think they really could have made the Mako fun if they had decided to work at it rather than scrapping the whole thing.

Good luck with the space game. I don't know how many people played your "Fantabulus Space" game but I thought it was fun, so I look forward to your next effort.

Incidently your freeware game design efforts are one of the reasons why I have so much respect for you, and your opinion, even when I disagree with you.

I haven't played ME2, but from the sound of it, was it just a linear game with the advertising saying it was a sandbox like game? And instead of true sandbox or open-worldness, was it a linear game with optional sidequests?

I am Commander Shepard, the Lord thy God. Thou shalt have no other Gods before me!
kekekekekekekeke

THANK YOU!

My feelings precisely.

...of course it didn't stop me from racking up three playthroughs but I still prefered the immersion of the first game. Second game invites you into it then throws you back out with a splash screen every few seconds. I guess I'm one of the few freaks that actually missed the elevators.

I haven't played ME2 (though I did enjoy the review), so this is purely about your game:
I am looking forward to your design, considering the absence of any worthwhile space sim in the past 5 years. As for the controls, how about something similar to Freelancer? It's easy and intuitive to use, and possibly not too difficult to implement.

BlueInkAlchemist:
I never thought of it until now, but that walk from the galaxy map to the airlock would make a great deal of difference, especially if it segued from there to the loading screen involving the airlock itself.

Yahtzee's Frontier experience is one I had with a game called Privateer. I wasted so many hours flying from one system to another just to trade commodities because I was in space.

This was probably the first sign of how incredibly dull I am.

http://privateer.sourceforge.net/

In case you didn't already know.

Outright Villainy:
This reminds me of wind waker, to be honest; a lot of people complained about boring sailing sections, but really, it helped me believe I was travelling across the vast ocean. I liked the change of pace at any rate. Immersion is something I go for a lot in games, and a little tedium here and there wouldn't really bother me if it strengthens that.

This I agree on. Even though it was boring to sail, the long rides and scavenger hunts took away the claustrophobic feel of games like Ocarina of Time, where you felt closed in inside a mountain meadow.

Also, I'm looking forward to hear about this space game you're talking of.

I honestly have to disagree with Yahtzee on this one... the last thing I needed for ME2 was obnoxious flights between plot points (I was pissed you couldn't even skip the Relay cutscenes). That's starting to sound suspiciously like a jRPG which I find totally ironic. I also found having the dock-and-walk thing from ME1 annoying; obviously I want to go here, I pressed "dock" didn't I? If I wanted to walk toward every place I wanted to go, I'd go play an MMORPG. I play games like ME for story. Needless extension of gameplay for the sake of some semblance of "immersion" is totally unnecessary and distracting. Sure it might be cool for the first three or four times, but after the 68th time, is it really necessary? I always promote ideas like "fast travel" in games that normally make you walk... my time is finite and I'm not paid to play games for a living. If I can complete the same amount of plot progression by 7:30pm that would normally take me until 7:55pm by removing all unnecessary fluff like repetitive travel between points, I'm totally for that.

If you want a sense of "bigness" go outside... I hear it's pretty big out there.

Jeez... For someone who likes the massive emptiness of space that much you really do dislike EVE Online a lot. One thing EVE does right is the massive scale of space.

Huh, funnily enough, I agree. I remember Shadows of the Empire


the last level when you were ganging on the skyhook! This game, this part is amazing!!! Being a huge fan of Star Wars and flying in space this part just blew my mind to pieces! Hundreds of enemy and friendly ships shooting each other, fighting in space. I used to pass through the Star Destroyers bridge, between the tower things, and do all sorts of cool movements. Truly an epic feeling! :D

They brought it back in Star Wars Battlefront 2 but it didn't work that well in my opinion. I'm still waiting for Lucasarts to release a game where you can fly the small ships AND the big command ships, land on enemy ships, take out their shield from inside etc, shoot with those big cannons from a capital ship, just pulvirize everything! Kinda like Battlefront 2 did but better. It's great fun :) Gives you a wonderful feeling of freedom, swoshing through space, flying, dodging. Ah:D

The tangents between me and Yahtzee are scary some times. I, too, have aspirations towards Fun Space Game precisely born of this sense of lack of connectivity that bothered me about Mass Effect 2.

Perhaps this is where all gamers would be if they were playing a ridiculous amount of games since C-64 days. The need to roll our own comes from a ridiculous amount of casual gamer pandering going on these days. Because casual gamers are thick and it's easier to develop a crude simple game than a deep mind-blowing one.

Although my approach isn't to use a Unity 3D engine but rather to use the BYOND engine which is a simple 2D tile-based engine which has inherent multiplayer support. Embracing limitations and all that.

I think the trade-off between the planet square of nothingness and much more well designed environments was a great step. To me, the Mako sections of ME1 were unusual considering what I saw as available technology in the setting.

We have flying vehicles, but I have to use a land-base one to roam around? Which required a suitable landing site, which nothing was ever built near because everyone else uses shuttles! It was even in the Codex that the only reason the Normandy can drop the Mako was because it was small enough to enter the atmosphere, but I still wanted to just land at the site I need to be at. It was also annoying to deal with enemies while in the Mako, and only the major missions had areas that were interesting to drive around on anyway.

And why do I have to find everything that should be scanable from orbit?

ME2's resource mining was an annoying timesink, too, but at least I could find the stuff without trying to drive a tank over a mountain. ME1's ore was never on flat terrain.

just yesterday i decided to not embrace, but acknowledge my limitations. 20 minutes later i drew up the blueprint of an awesome invention. like you and your game, i'm going to make this invention myself, prove it works, and see what happens after that. i didnt even name it yet.

Interesting idea for a space game, having the main element be flying so close to another ship that it becomes your frame of reference. One of the problems with space sims of flight sims is that they never felt very fast unless you are near another object or the ground. Without seeing stuff whiz by you 400mph is just a number that means you are not stalling and your wings aren't about to rip off. Once again, best of luck making it, we are cheering for you.

Totally agree here. Games need extranous bits that tie the world together, they might feel like a chore at times but are absolutely essential for immersion.

That's also what killed Oblivion for me. I started playing and travelled into this awesome, slightly repetative world. I literally walked out of the city, and just went straight ahead with no idea where my journey would lead me. It had a huge sense of place and I spend hourse walking around, climbing a mountain and getting my level 1 ass kicked by mud crabs. And then...I realized you could quick travel. No longer did you have to travel all the way back with your trusted horse to make it back to the city and sell loot but you could simply press 2 mouse clicks and there you were. It killed the setting and crippled the feeling of scale. Morrowind had the travel system of giant monster things, which atleast made some sense, but the quick travel system seemed like to easy a way to get around.

Shadow of the Collosus got this exactly right. You get on your horse and just go. No idea where you're heading, chasing after a beam of light. That was awesome immersion. No hud, no signs, no quick travel, no bullshit. The feeling of being dumbed in a strange world is essential for free roaming games to work and SotC nailed it. People would complain and moan about it being boring riding around with no enemies, but they were missing the point. It was an adventure, and one of the finest and boldest video games ever offered.

As for the space game: Awesome. I don't think a game designed around swimming controls is the best idea, but if it gets you from A to B then it'll do. Space games should be played with a nice, old joy-stick. Those were some tight controls.

Fuck the mako.

What about flying the little lander vehicle around planets? Its not a jetpack, but they wrote so much about that fucking thing that, once again, I thought I was actually going to use it (normandy stealth was guilty of this in me1). What I expected was a Mix of the mako segments with the planet scanning in a awesome/ugly little space-ship/lander craft that drops straight out of the normandy. Flying around a randomly generated sphere looking for crap/missions.

"Shepard. There is nothing here"
"WEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAOOOOOOOOO! ZOOOOOOOOOOOM!"
"Shepard..."

And that's why I'm not a writer. That's exactly how I feel, I just can't put it to words like that.

It's also the same reason why I really had no problems whatsoever with the elevator rides. Yeah they were long, but hell at least you were actually travelling somewhere, plus it added a certain sense of scale (an elevator ride that long must mean this station is huge). The cheesy lift music and hilarious dialogue helped a lot.

I would have loved to have explorable areas with a greater sense of scale, but the point about the airlock is really rather astute - in Mass Effect 2, you could enter it, but it didn't have a point, as landing just presented you with a squad selection screen and then you would magically be outside the dock.

Now you could point out that playing the whole "decontamination in progress" animation only to then bring up a squad screen was just faffing about to get to the same point, but I always liked hearing the computer tell me that the captain was leaving the ship and the XO had the helm, or vice versa.

Just leaving that aspect of debarkation would have gone a long way to keeping the sense of immersion going.

Gildan Bladeborn:
I would have loved to have explorable areas with a greater sense of scale, but the point about the airlock is really rather astute - in Mass Effect 2, you could enter it, but it didn't have a point, as landing just presented you with a squad selection screen and then you would magically be outside the dock.

Now you could point out that playing the whole "decontamination in progress" animation only to then bring up a squad screen was just faffing about to get to the same point, but I always liked hearing the computer tell me that the captain was leaving the ship and the XO had the helm, or vice versa.

Just leaving that aspect of debarkation would have gone a long way to keeping the sense of immersion going.

You can tell in me1, they wanted a seamless experience. Background loading hiding behind decontamination, elevators, pre-rendered mass relay and ftl bits, but smacked into the technical limitations of the xbox. Meaning a loading screen while the elevator conversation/blurb loaded, then more loading after it ended, then more loading before the door opened, on and on and on.

Playing me1 on a system that isn't 6 years out of date makes it feel more like what was intended.

Juan Regular:
I too need a good space sim.
No one can tell me a mixture of Freelancer and Mass Effect wouldn't be the most amazing game ever.

EVE online and Mass Effect 2 would be good when mixed.

 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here